gold MSM MopeFor those wondering whether Tuesday’s outside reversal off of gold’s June lows will mark the bottom of the 2+ year decline in gold and silver, Yahoo Finance has news propaganda for you: gold is going down for another 18 years!
Gold is pretty ugly- down over 30% year to date.  Do you look at gold here or just stay the heck away from it?
David Nelson: “I can’t find alot of reasons to like gold, you should avoid it.  The whole inflation argument that QE was going to cause inflation and hyper-inflation has been blown out of the water…If you go back and and look at the last bear market in gold, it took 20 years for it to bottom! Even if you think this might be a bottom, we’re only a couple of years into this.  You could be 5-6-7, even a decade early! Finally, the advent of virtual currencies like Bitcoin are a negative for gold buyers.
Can you smell the MSM desperation in the air?

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  1. The guy can eat shit and bark at the moon along with the rest of em. A guy on cnbc this morning said he didn’t like gold until it rallys and closes above 1400, but he did say that he recommends 10% of one’s portfolio in gold coins.
     
    The talking head about shat her pants when he said that LOL.

  2. These guys seem to ignore the glaring fundamentals in play for both gold and silver. The PM bears never want to address the $17 trillion dollar debt gorilla in the room and the threat of rising interest rates. I read a post recently on Marketwatch where this guy keeps talking about how demand for gold and silver are going down and have been for years. What data is he looking at? Does he not see that silver eagle sales just set a record in 2013? 

    • I will tell you what he is looking at.  He is looking at GLD and thinking that THIS is gold.  He is looking at SLV and thinking that THIS is silver.  But they are not.  They are paper representations of PMs but they are not PMs, any more than a picture of a hot juicy steak IS a hot juicy steak.  I kid you not.  These paper mongers do not understand the difference between real metal and its paper representation… at least the ones who are on these financial programs.  Their masters are keenly aware of this difference.  They should be for it is they who have set the paper traps for the unwary.  These foot-soldier types we see on TV are part of the disinformation troops assigned to prying PMs from the weak hands so that the strong hands can collect it, preferably at the lowest possible price.
       
      But… there IS a way to show these people for what they are.  When they make these idiotic statements about a new PM bear market that will last a couple of decades, all we need do is ask them if they have put THEIR money into gold and silver short funds.  If they have then they are at least walking the walk while talking the talk.  If they haven’t, then they are talkers and not walkers.  This is the difference between those who DO and those who TALK… and, as they say, talk is cheap.
       

    • @Ed
      I really do agree with you that most of these shills on CNBC et al really do NOT understand the gold situation and I do think you are right that they are looking at the GLD dropping and are as sucked in by the disinfo explanation for this as those moving those vehicles want the public to be… when I go to the restaurant, I want to eat real steak and not the paper menu representation of it… paper is the menu, but the meat is the physical…  There are a couple of friends of mine that I’ve had to wean off brokers who truly do not understand that there is a physical market and a fiat representation of the metals that is paper and it’s fractional by at least 50 to 70 to 1.  Their broker eyes glaze over and they go right back to recommending their book and whatever came over their squawkbox that morning…  These people look at the stock market rising and have no idea that the reason it is rising is because of all the liquidity sloshing around from QE and the like… but when you ask them why they recommend some stock, they will keep coming back to the same fundamental and technical chatter they’ve known all their careers.  I’ve asked a few recently if they know what the PPT is?  Doh!   I’ve asked if they’ve ever heard of the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets?   Uh, what’s that?  I’ve asked them what the real unemployment numbers are… and they’ll parrot the latest disinfo from the BLS… I like to see the deer in the headlights look when I give them Shadowstat’s numbers along with a link and tell them to read it and weep.
       
      One day, the globalists are going to pull the plug and the life-support from the market and what’s left of the economic ICU patient, if indeed, they didn’t already start with the announcement of a $10 billion reduction in QE a couple weeks ago… and when they do, the air is gonna go out of these clueless brokers even faster than it’s gonna go out of the financial and economic systems…
       
      Talk about walking versus talking — Interesting Story:  About a  year ago now, I met a broker from Merrill at a social party hosted by a mutual friend… (who was a little reticent to invite me to his shindigs, because he knows I will always tweak the gathering with my rather ‘unconventional’ outlooks on the future of our country.)  Well, the Merrill guy and I got into a conversation about the markets and I asked him what his firm was telling people to do at the time… he spouted the usual gruel book you’d expect… then, as the conversation went on, we got into a more realistic prognosis discussion and I asked him what HE was doing personally… Well, he sounded like one of us…  Physical precious metals, guns, ammo, food and the usual collection of shiny prepper objects.  I commented, “Goldman calls their customers, Muppets.  What do you call your customers?”  He looked at me and in a low voice, looking around to make sure no one else heard,  “Easy Marks on the Gravy Train.”  Wow.
      That was all I needed to hear.
      BTW in an earlier post, I wanted to clarify something I said regarding the ETFs being a criminal scam as opposed to representing a market.  When I finally had a chance to get back to the thread and read your replies to me…  I was referring to the GLD numbers being a fraud.  What I did not make clear in my responses was that I saw a report somewhere that showed the vast amount of holdings in GLD were actually by the bullion bankers, notably HSBC, Morgan and, if I remember correctly, Goldman.  So, the numbers weren’t really representative of the retail  ‘market’ per se…  but rather the flywheel.  What I read suggested that the indications of the change in the actual tonnage might not even closely correspond directly with the actual ‘claim checks’ represented by the supposed number of ‘shares’ outstanding.  Indeed, the prospectus seems pretty full of language that makes this a real possibility.  That’s why I was observing the GLD was a fraud and not really representative of the true sentiment for the metal from the start…

    • @Sovereign Economist
       
      Agree with you 100% on brokers and how they operate.  In the early 1980s, I had a fascinating discussion with a fellow who once worked for the company where I was employed.  He was a salesman by trade but retired and when into personal financial advising.  The company would bring him back each year to host a discussion on economic subjects, such as retirement plans, investing, saving, etc.  He gave me the Ben Franklin quote on the description of compound interest:  “The money that money makes, makes money”.  I was fascinated by that concept, so started reading everything I could find on personal finance, retirement plans, and investing.  It was quite a journey and as a labor of love was really no effort at all.  After a while, I discovered a 2nd quote that was quite meaningful for me and that was, “Nobody cares as much about your financial future as you do”, with the obvious addition of, “So why pay someone else to do a job that you can do as well or better than they for nothing?”.  I became my own broker / financial adviser.  Because of that, I never got involved with Ponzi scheme running cretins or thieves who rip people off and then disappear.  That allowed me to save, invest, and create some real wealth that I have used, in part, to fuel my PM stack.  Yes, I still invest in the market but am well aware of the limits that it imposes, particularly these days.  Still, money can be made in this market.  2013 was a pretty good year for the market.  Yes, over half of that goodness was due to levitation of the market by the Fed dumping a trillion or more US dollars into it but the reason is not especially relevant when one is cashing in those earnings and using them to their benefit.  The trick is to be aware, nimble, and wary.  Like a remora riding around on a large shark, the small investor can profit from the big market moves even though many of them are completely manufactured.  Just beware the teeth at the front end of the beast.  ;-)
       
      Yes, that was a fascinating story about the ML broker.  In some circles, guys like this are called “Broksters”, which is the broker equivalent of the common bankster.  Funny how some will open up and spill the truth AFTER some lubrication occurs… and where better for that to happen than at a well-lubed social gathering?
       
      I have a story along those lines as well.  I was sitting at my PC several years ago and was combing through a lot of financial data on-line.  My son dropped by to visit for a while and asked what I was doing, so I described the technique of surveying company and market info to see which companies were doing better than others and that those companies that were doing better might be candidates for buying their stock.  He thought about that and then asked if a lot of other people were also doing that.  I replied that they probably were but that it did not concern me too much.  He then asked if the other people also made money.  I answered that some did and some did not and that it was the quality and quantity of info, having a plan, and having the ability to take action that often made the difference between making money and not and that if an investor was not careful, they probably would lose some money.  In other words… the investor generally makes money in the market while the wannabes are there to provide it.  The trick is in becoming an investor and not merely a wannabe.  ;-)
       
      “BTW in an earlier post, I wanted to clarify something I said regarding the ETFs being a criminal scam as opposed to representing a market.”
       
      Understood.  I thought that the prospectus for both the GLD and the SLV were amazing works of obfuscation, which is quite rare in my experience.  It almost looked as if the sponsors of those ETFs did not understand their own product.  That seemed pretty unlikely, since they designed it, so something else was likely responsible for their lack of clarity.  It got me to thinking about the old three shells and a pea game, in fact, where the house almost always wins… unless there is a shill in the game, of course.  The tricky part in a lot of this is that we end up relying on the ETFs themselves for information about their metal buys, sells, and inventory.  If they are up to no good, these numbers may not be… reliable.  I started to wonder whether or not they had 2 sets of books, which is common in businesses that are illegitimate.  In any case, it did not look like anything I wanted to put money into. 
       

    • CDL  Chong Long Dong   Braggart  LOL
       
      brokenfoot   Being just a tad facetious, I might not advertise  a 2/3 of a ton of silver holding.  Jamie Dimon’s flying monkey sqaud might want tolook you up when JPM needs to balance its silver book.  Cheers and keep stacking.
        I’d trade you some gold for some silver;   spot price for spot price, if you want to lower your cost of gold and dump some silver.
       

    • @AGXIIK @Ed_B
      The most IMPORTANT part about this clip was the mention of BitCoin and/or ‘Other Virtual Fiat’ as a MAJOR reason why Gold is dead and gone forever from its 5000+yrs use as a store of value. Since when did the MSM become digital currency/USD alternative cheerleaders?
       
      I have been posting here for a while to say that I believe that the NSA and TPTB (Western Cartel/s) have created BitCoin in order to do 3 things.
      1] Deny the Chinese the ability to have the next Nation Sponsored World Reserve Currency by creating an alternative that it NOT backed by a country, thus no political entity (other than anyone who has cornered it) to surf the Wave as it is pumped out of its borders for real product and simply banked into Chinese Panda Bonds just as the USD has surfed the 20th Century fiat tsunami since 1913.
      2] Deny Gold and Silver (as it is linked to Gold) the ability to be seen as an alternative, or at least to take the heat off of the PM Paper Ponzi gold pools for a little while.
      3] Get everyone to use currency that is 100% electronic and fully traceable (as BitCoin is…to someone like the NSA anyways), because the NSA and GCHQ (who are simply one big network) will have the ability to control it, and control it they will, despite what all of the tech-head nerds think, who believe they are more ingenious than an Intelligence Behemoth/s with infinite Super State funds, and far more power to ‘Mine’ the new coins as they are produced.
       
      The first person to write papers and write real code for a BitCoin prototype and release them into the public was NSA Analyst & Contractor Tatsuaki Okamoto in the early to mid 1990′s … and the founder of BitCoin is supposed to be one Satoshi Nakamoto? An obvious pseudonym, and they used a Japanese guy so that it didn’t sound ‘Western Sphere’ derived.

       
      The Chinese have banned it also recently? The Chinese know what is up. I am sure I was right to smell a rat on BitCoin and even LiteCoin and whatever FiatCoin clone pops up as an alternative to create more stall time that New York and London need in order to wear out every other country in the world so that they just cave in and retain the USD, or agree to a United Nations push for International Financial Authority over a Mandated WRC for BitCoin (ie, complete DigitalFiat Monopoly, finally under a world authority).
       
      BUT … and here’s where it gets deep. MaxKeiser is the biggest Cheerleader and acts like he is an equal supporter of Gold and Silver, and IMO this is so he can help place the Trojan Horse BitCoin into the alternative news BUT HE IS ON RUSSIA TODAY? WTF? Are the Russians working with the US and UK in order to ensure that China doesn’t become the new WRC? Have the Russians realized that they missed the ship, and only China has the power to fully realize a new WRC in the same format as the USD has been used, and are thus playing ball whilst acting up as an act? this gives me the heebie-geebies.
       
      BitCoin is perhaps the worlds most successful PsyOp to date IMO. Look at how many people are willing to enter into it purely as an investment vehicle and to shun PM’s. It must already have bought the London Gold Pool months worth of draw IMO, because it almost has the Market Capitalization of All of the Silver in the market.
      The Book of Revelation ‘Mark of the Beast’ comes to mind.

    • @WillNotBeASlave
      Hey old Pal, I see your points, but I’m going all in on BTC. If it is the heir apparent to the U$D, 
      better to get in Early as opposed to Late, or NEVER. Plus, I have a very fine strategy as for how
      to take out profits. Agora Commodities sells PMs directly for BTC, so that is a great way to yank 
      funds from the digital giant. If the BTC system becomes “mark of the Beast” I will simply pull the 
      plug. Getting into the mining end of it actually… 

    • @undeRGRound
      Every man to his own … I sincerely hope you don’t get burnt… BUT, you cannot deny that the herding of many people who have decided to exit Dollars into DigitalFiat is only a good thing for the beleaguered London Gold pool and the other associated Paper PMs Ponzis? And it must seriously be pissing the Chinese off now that they SHOULD be getting their own turn at having the WRC, at least in their own minds.

    • Thanks for the cautions, and I really mean that. I will be looking at the signs. 
       
      The other side of your coin, @WillNotBeASlave 
      is that if you are correct, or close, it means that we have MORE TIME TO STACK! 
      Having more time and a funding method is PERFECT for my situation! I’ll be available to 
      and SD’ers wanting advice or info. Hopefully it will be quite lucrative. 

    • @WillNotBeASlave
       
      When one is confronted by a huge steaming pile, one need not dig through it to discover all the particulars to KNOW that it is BS.
       
      Whether Bitcoin is as good as some say or as bad as others fear, many of us have no interest in it whatever.  The concept is somewhat fascinating but I agree completely that it IS susceptible to NSA hacking if they desire to do so.  In fact, it is difficult to tell at this point whether or not Bitcoin is really legit or whether it is a financial false flag planted by TPTB.  If it has been planted, we can all assume that this was done for a very good reason.  Control of the money supply, even if it is fiat, is THE primary tool of the banksters to gain control of things of real value and even entire countries via their purchased politicians.  A legit Bitcoin would be a threat to that financial hegemony.  In that regard, Bitcoin would be every bit as hated by TPTB as are gold and silver.  Since TPTB seem not to care much about Bitcoin, it is safe to assume that it is no threat to them and therefore not legitimate.  This could easily be just another trap that has been laid for the unwary.  The stackers motto should stand us in good stead here… “If you can’t hold it in your hand, you don’t own it”. 
       
      As our good friend, Charlie, would say, “KEEP STACKING!  LOL! and LMAO!”  ;-)
       

    • @Ed_B >>>  A legit Bitcoin would be a threat to that financial hegemony.  In that regard, Bitcoin would be every bit as hated by TPTB as are gold and silver.  Since TPTB seem not to care much about Bitcoin, it is safe to assume that it is no threat to them and therefore not legitimate.
      BUT, if the bigger geo-political danger TPTB currently perceive is the Chinese Gold Backed Yuan, then BTC would be loved by TPTB … they want to heist everyone’s capital in the Western world anyway, so they still want to crash the dollar, They own Deeds on all of their industry, land, and real estate, they won’t lose any of this and will have hegemony, they just don’t want people going to China when it crashes, they want them to race into the new Digital Fiat and deny the Chinese what they want. And of course a digital fiat is bad for so many Orwellian reasons I don’t even know where to start.
      KEEP STACKING!  LOL! and LMAO!” … yes, I beilieve Charlie would say that ;-) he should change his avatar to KeepStackingFools or something of that order ;-)

    • @WillNotBeASlave As for BitCoin and Trading I’m not interested in either as others may be but I would never call them FOOLS for being involved so that handle is definitely out. So how about TheStackingFool at least I can call myself a Fool as some others do LMAO Keep Stacking

  3.  When interest rates go to 17% or 22% similar to the 1970′s that is when the most likely top formation will happen.  Obviously there are a lot of scenarios that could happen but “if” gold follows the 1970′s we need to have much higher interest rates to help inflate away the debt.  Right now they continue to hold interest rates artificially low and we all know at some point you must Pay The Piper.  When we Pay The Piper is when gold will spike hard and fast.

    • Interest rates at even 5% would crush the markets and the system would implode (derivatives complex). Normal looking rates at 7-8% are a fantasy, let alone a Volcker type situation.
       
      The banks are FUBAR….they cant raise rates significantly without destroying everything in sight (imho).

    • Interest rates will rise and the banks will have nothing to do with it.  The ONLY reason why interest rates have been so low for so long is that the Fed came in as the UST bond buyer of last resort.  Prior to them doing that, the bond market (aka the bond vigilantes) set the long term rates via a competitive bidding process for new UST paper.  
       
      The club that they held over the Gov’s head was the threat of a failed auction.  A failed auction occurs when the Gov offers a fixed number of bonds for sale and they are not all purchased.  Typically, they will offer $10B of 10-year notes and other amounts of various duration bonds at different interest rates.  The longer the term, the higher the rate of interest.  Govs cannot afford for an auction to fail because if one does, other bond buyers will become nervous as to the reasons for that failure and they will back away from Gov paper.  In order to not have a failed auction, the Gov was forced to offer rates that were commensurate with the risks that the bond buyers believed they were taking in buying their bonds.  As Govs demonstrate their inability to operate in a financially competent manner, rates rise because bond buyers want more interest to compensate them for the higher risks they are assuming.  But, not to worry, Gov… here comes Bernanke to the rescue, buying every UST bond that the market refuses to buy and at the offered coupon rate… so the Gov doesn’t need to offer competitive rates any more and they don’t.  
       
      If the Fed really does back away from QE and the bond buying it allows them to do, the Gov will have to offer higher rates on what are perceived as riskier bonds.  If they don’t, then their auctions will fail and that will lead to a downward bond spiral.  The result of this will be a nation that either cannot borrow more money OR that has to pay a usurious interest rate to bond buyers.  As these rates climb, the greater becomes the amount of the national budget that just covers the interest payments.  
       
      Note that these interest payments are not the loans themselves.  The bonds themselves are not paid off.  They are merely “rolled over” into new bonds at the then current interest rates.  With only the interest being paid, the national debt never gets paid off or even down.
       
      The current US policy of making interest-only payments on our debt is the equivalent of when an individual either makes only interest payments on their credit cards or uses one card to “pay off” another card.  It is slight-of-hand accounting at its best and is economically unsound.
       

    • What if the TBTF have created a War Chest of Fiat in the shadow banking system, and now that the Fed says they are tapering these TBTF as a Combine have agreed to buy all of the T Bonds that the Fed is not for an interim year or two, and we know the Chinese are getting out of US Bonds. This would make investors think that the Fed Taper is working as interest rates would still be suppressed even though everyone expects them to start increasing due to the taper … and by doing this they may be able to sucker everyone who was scared back into the Bond habit as there is nowhere else to go, I mean, could Stocks really get much higher than today?
       
      It’s all about perception, and convincing people for long enough that the USD is going nowhere whilst continually suppressing the PM’s prices might just wear people out like Gold in the 1980′s.
      The ONLY thing IMO that will upset these manipulations is if the London Gold Pool runs dry and the Chinese show everyone that the Emperor truly has no clothes … but I’m sure a war can be started somewhere to cover up this eventuality, and I’m sure that is the plan if indeed the Chinese keep drawing as much physical out as they are at the moment.

    • “What if the TBTF…”
       
      A lot of time can be spent on the “what ifs” of the current situation.  While that might be useful, it might also lead us down the primrose path of over-thinking this.  Virtually anything is possible and the more devious and nefarious it seems, the more likely a lot of us tend to think that it is.  Perhaps we should defer to Occam’s Razor in such situations?
       
      “I mean, could Stocks really get much higher than today?”
       
      My guess is that without manipulation of some sort, they cannot get much higher on average.  Some individual stocks could certainly get higher and perhaps much higher.  It took some heavy duty manipulation via the QE programs and 5-7 trillion dollars (depending on whose numbers we use) “injected into the economy” to get us from the early March 2009 lows of 6600 on the Dow 30 and about 700 on the S&P 500 up around 16,500 on the Dow 30 and 1800 on the S&P 500… both of which look over-valued to me by about half.  But then, I too could be wrong about this.  Unlike the Fed, I can admit when I am wrong.  ;-)

  4. Damn I just bought 60 ozs of gold buffaloes. I better go blow my brains out. And wtf am I going to do with my 22000 ozs of silver I’m all in @ $23:40?? Life just isn’t worth living anymore now that I know I made a major f-up like that. Good bye cruel world. 

  5. Yahoo = same shit, different year!
    For me, it’s very simple.
    I’m still buing silver because I believe, that majority of our world population is right, well minded and still trusting gold and silver to be the one and only money! (Yes, if you count together people from China, Russia, India, Brazil and all Arab countries you get the majority of world population!)

  6. Everyone knows the chair-warming scholars of ‘yahoo’ are some of the bestest (not to say independent or honest) economizers in the world today.
    With a name like, “Yahoo” they just exude class, even sophistication. I bet they have air conditioning up in there.

  7. Something to consider, the last time the MACD indicator was this oversold on gold, silver and the XAU was over 31 years ago.
    http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2014/1/1_The_Most_Remarkable_News_In_The_Gold_%26_Silver_Markets.html
    The oversold conditions did create a strong robound rally for silver, but the oversold MACD indicator also did signal the beginning of the bear market for silver in 1981-82.
    The SP 500 is also the most overbought in 33 years.
    From a technical perspective, we are either going to see massive gains and all-time highs for gold, silver, and the XAU in the next 12-18 months, or there will be a very solid case for a new secular bear market.
     

    • much different today than the 70s…oil at $95+ a barrel, the world is awash in derivative debt, world wide desparate attempt to print currency to avoid the innevitable, China and SouthAmerica matter, blind euphoria in the stock markets and Elvis has left the building

    • zman ignores the elephant in the room, as usual.

      China gold chief confirms gold price suppression by U.S.
      “While gold price suppression can hardly be addressed by mainstream financial news organizations in the West, for years it has been a fairly common topic in the government-controlled news media in China, and Chinese news reports about gold price suppression by the United States have even been cabled back to the U.S. State Department in Washington by the U.S. embassy in Beijing.”

      http://news.goldseek.com/GATA/1388682000.php

    • @SILVERTONGUEDEVIL
       
      Agree on the current state of the US and other economies.  Add to those facts that the smart money is exiting the market at the very time that a lot of small investors are entering the market.  With the US stock market at or near all time highs, this looks to me like a gigantic sign that a market top is forming.  Those of us who are using the stock market to make money need to keep a VERY close eye on it and a very itchy finger on the sell-trigger.
       

    • @mikeyj80
      Zed zero ‘changes’ his/her mind to suit whatever its agenda is.  To go from a timescale of 5-10yrs to 12-18 months in just a few days is, well, suspicious.  But who knows, perhaps he/she isn’t a shill as many suspect? Perhaps ……..lol

  8. That’s it, I can’t take the losses any longer. I’m throwing in the towel and selling my stack before it loses even more of its value… Nah, just kidding. It’s this kind of MSM shit that convinces me even more (if that’s even possible) that gold and silver are THE answer to wealth preservation.
     
    If they need to go to such extremes with their propaganda, we know they’re in big trouble. KEEP ON STACKING!!

  9. roer that Snakebite  Every internet company, every computer company, every smart phone company. every software company and every social media/search engine company is completely, totally, absolutely and irretrievably conquered and absorbed by the government, NSA, DOD, TSA and DHS.  Apple just issued one of the most weak-assed excuses that the NSA co-oped their software in every Ipad and Iphone with a back door “JEEP” program and protocols that allow the goon squad looki-loss to take a long lingering peek up our gumstumps.
    Yahoo is probably one of the worst of the breed, lead by inept dunderheads and shareholders who’s capital base, stock price (think a nice investment by the ESF and CIA to juice their price) and digital footprint is moronic at best.  But hey, look who’s pissing about Yahoo.  I use AOL, one of the first to use this company.  Case and his monkey-f**** have my number too. Anyone who would by the Huffington Post is totally beyond the pale.   :-(

    • Yahoo was the company that had a marvelous chance to sell out to Microsoft but blew it because they believed that the offer was too low.  Soon thereafter, the Yahoo share price fell by 50% and stayed in the low to mid teens for years.  I am amazed that they survived this bout of operating genius.  In spite of all their woes, they seem to have found a great CEO these days who is finally turning them around.
       

    • “yes but does she put out?”
       
      Yes, she does.  She puts out money to her shareholders via higher share prices and that is why they like her.  :-)
       

  10. Might be correct for gold.
    Look how much silver has outperformed since May-Aug.
    The gold-silver ratio has dropped from nearly 65 to under 61. And the silver price is flat since. 
    We all know silver makes bigger moves, but it seems to have made a move where gold didn’t have one.
    Perhaps the point has been reached where the grip on gold is off prima importance, and no resources are allowed to be wasted on the silver front. Allow it to appreciate.
    Those who bought silver in 2013 are already up in gold, before PM prices start to really rise. me, I hate it. I want a couple more years of sub-$20 and GSR>65.
    My net value increased 4% today, and I am really grumpy about it.

  11. He’s right.  I’m glad we ‘the West’ managed to offload that useless yellow shiny crap to those dumb Chinese folk whilst we still had the chance. We got our treasured fiat binary code and some special pieces of paper in exchange for some silly shiny metal…..we ‘did’ them over good :-)

  12. You can look around online and see that the message is clear.  I look at psychic sites a lot.  The psychics are mostly frauds but they mirror the spooges message.  Gold is dead.  Silver is dead.  Stocks are good.  The economy will show a lot of improvement in 2014.  Now, I cannot predict the future.  I see trends.  The experts cannot predict the future and they irritate me since even if what they say comes true it isn’t because they knew something special.  My advice is this.  Take a look at psychic predictions.  They do not even mention gold and silver for the most part, as if PM is a non issue.  The last couple of years they were quick to jump on the band wagon and predict higher prices.  They were wrong. 
    This year.   They feel that PM is not even worth a mention.
    Very bullish.  Pyschics are frauds in most cases.  Do the opposite of what they say or do what they do not say and you might have a chance.  
     
    2014 is a good year for this type of guidance.
     
    Pollokeeper
     
     

    • @Pollokeeper
       
      Speaking of psychics… my son and I were visiting a few years ago and one of those Call-A-Psychic ads came on.  We watched it for a while and chuckled a bit.  I asked him what he thought of these psychics.  His reply was classic:  “Dad, if I really need to talk to a psychic, they will call me!”.  lol
       
      But, in spite of these commercial frauds, there really are true psychics.  I went to a spiritualist church a few times in Salem, OR and a couple of the people there were gifted.  They told me things about me and my life that they could not possibly know.  Some had already happened and some hadn’t… but did later on.  I just listened to them and did not volunteer any info.  They charged a small fee of $5 for this as they were collecting money to build a church of their own.  When I was there, the services were held in a private home.  They said that it would be wrong for them to profit from their gifts but they could accept a small donation.  That it was in helping others that their gifts were empowered.
       
      I have had a couple of psychic moments in my life as well but they are neither controllable nor reproducible, so do not match any scientific criteria.  In spite of that, some very unusual and inexplicable things have happened that psychic ability would explain.  In no case do any of these involve handing over your credit card number, however.
       

  13. :)Since we are in a bear market for precious metals (according to yahoo), do you think we will get another opportunity to buy silver below or around $19?  I need to purchase at least 700 more ounces of silver.

    • Gold @$400 and silver @$7 by Nov 2014.  It will hover at that range for 17 yrs.  I know this because a guy in a bar told me.  You should buy bitcoin, facebook stocks and go long on the euro, Hawk ;-)

    • “You should buy bitcoin, facebook stocks and go long on the euro, Hawk “
       
      No, no… for MAX effect, you want to buy call options on those things… the farther out the better.  Twitter also.  :-D
       

  14. Who Do You Want To Believe About The Value Of Gold?
    Do you believe mainstream media? Or do you believe some of the wealthiest people in the investment community, central banks, and commercial banks?
    This is why it’s important to balance the one-sided message typically heard in the mainstream media with other views. As you break for this holiday season, we’d like to leave you with some of those contrarian voices, all of which have put their money where their mouth is…

    Marc Faber is quick to stand up to the gold bears. “We have a lot of bearish sentiment, [and] a lot of bearish commentaries about gold, but the fact is that some countries are actually accumulating gold, notably China. They will buy this year at a rate of something like 2,600 tons, which is more than the annual production of gold. So I think that prices are probably in the process of bottoming out here, and that we will see again higher prices in the future.”

    Brent Johnson, CEO of Santiago Capital, told CNBC viewers to “buy gold if they believe in math… Longer term, I think gold goes to $5,000 over a number of years. If they continue to print money at the current rate, I think it could be multiples of that. I see a slow steady rise punctuated with some sharp upward moves.”

    Jim Rogers, billionaire and cofounder of the Soros Quantum Fund, publicly stated last month that he has never sold any gold and can’t imagine ever selling gold in his life because he sees it as an insurance policy. “With all this staggering amount of currency debasement, gold has got to be a good place to be down the road once we get through this correction.”

    George Soros seems to be getting back into the gold miners: he recently acquired a substantial stake in the large-cap Market Vectors Gold Miners ETF (GDX) and kept his calls on Barrick Gold (ABX).

    Don Coxe, a highly respected global commodities strategist, says we can expect gold to rise with an improving economy, the opposite of what many in the mainstream expect. “You need gold for insurance, but this time the payoff will come when the economy improves. In the past when everything was falling all around you, commodity prices were soaring out of sight. We had three recessions in the 1970s and gold went from $35 an ounce to $850. But this time, gold is going to appreciate when we start getting 3% GDP growth.”

    Jeffrey Gundlach, bond guru and not historically known for being a big fan of gold, came out with a candid endorsement of yellow metal: “Now, I kind of like gold. It’s definitely very non-correlated to other assets you may have in your portfolio, and it does seem sort of cheap. I also like the GDX.”

    Steve Forbes, publishing magnate and chief executive officer of Forbes magazine, publicly predicted an impending return to the gold standard in a speech in Las Vegas. “A new gold standard is crucial. The disasters that the Federal Reserve and other central banks are inflicting on us with their funny-money policies are enormous and underappreciated.”

    Rob McEwen, CEO of McEwen Mining and founder of Goldcorp, reiterated his bullish call for gold to someday top $5,000. “We now have governments willing to seize their citizens’ assets. We now have currency controls on the table, which we haven’t seen since the late 1960s/early ’70s. We have continued debasement of currencies. And the economies of the Western world remain stagnant despite enormous monetary stimulation. All these facts to me are bullish for gold and make me believe the price will bounce back relatively soon.”

    Doug Casey says that while gold is not the giveaway it was at $250 back in 2001, it is nonetheless a bargain at current prices. “I’ve been buying gold for years and I continue to buy it because it is the way you save. I’m very happy to be able to buy gold at this price. All the so-called quantitative easing—money printing—by governments around the world has created a glut of freshly printed money. This glut has yet to work its way through the global economic system. As it does, it will create a bubble in gold and a super-bubble in gold stocks.”

    And then there’s the people who should know most about how sound the world’s various types of paper money are: central banks. As a group, they have added tonnes of bullion to their reserves this year…

    Turkey added 13 tonnes (417,959 troy ounces) of gold in November. Overall, it has added 143.6 tonnes (4,616,847 troy ounces) so far this year, up 22.5% from a year ago, in part thanks to the adoption of a new policy to accept gold in its reserve requirements from commercial banks.

    Russia bought 19.1 tonnes (614,079 troy ounces) in July and August alone. With the year-to-date addition of 57.37 tonnes—second only to Turkey—Russia’s gold reserves now total 1,015 tonnes. It now holds the eighth-largest national stash in the world.

    South Korea added a whopping 20 tonnes (643,014 troy ounces) of gold in February, and now carries 23.7% more gold on its balance sheet than at the end of 2012. “Gold is a real safe asset that can help (us) respond to tail risks from global financial situations effectively and boosts the reliability of our foreign reserves holdings,” said central bank officials.

    Kazakhstan has been buying gold every month, at an average of 2.4 tonnes (77,161 troy ounces) through October. As a result, the country’s reserves have seen a 21% increase to 139.5 tonnes from a year ago.

    Azerbaijan has taken advantage of a slump in gold prices and has gone from having virtually no gold to 16 tonnes (514,411 ounces).

    Sri Lanka and Ukraine added 5.5 (176,829 troy ounces) and 6.22 tonnes (199,977 troy ounces) respectively over the past year.

    China, of course, is the elephant in the China shop that mainstream analysts seem determined to ignore. Though nothing official has been announced by China’s central bank, the chart below provides some perspective into the country’s consumer buying habits.


    China will end 2013 officially as the largest gold consumer in the world. Chinese sentiment towards gold is well echoed in a statement made by Liu Zhongbo of the Agricultural Bank of China: “Because gold has capabilities to absorb external economic shocks, growth of its use in the international monetary system will be imminent.”
    And those commercial banks that have been verbally slamming gold—it turns out many are not as negative as it might seem…

    Goldman Sachs proved itself to be one of the biggest hypocrites: while advising clients to sell gold and buy Treasuries in Q2, it bought a stunning (and record) 3.7 million shares of GLD. And when Venezuela decided to raise cash by pawning its gold, guess who jumped in to handle the transaction? Yes, they claim the price will fall next year, but with such a slippery track record, it’s important to watch what they do and not what they say.

    Société Générale Strategist Albert Edwards says gold will top $10,000 per ounce (with the S&P 500 Index tumbling to 450 and Treasuries yielding less than 1%).

    JPMorgan Chase went on record in August recommending clients “position for a short-term bounce in gold.” Gold’s price resistance to Paulson & Co. cutting its gold exposure, along with growing physical gold demand in Asia, were cited among the main reasons.

    ScotiaMocatta‘s Sunil Kashyap said that despite the selloff, there’s still significant physical demand for gold, especially from India and China, which “supports prices.”

    Commerzbank calls for the gold price to enter a boom period next year. Based on investment demand from Asian countries—China and India in particular—the bank predicted the yellow metal will rise to $1,400 by the end of 2014.

    Bank of America Merrill Lynch, in spite of lower price forecasts for gold next year, reiterated they remain “longer-term bulls.”

    Citibank‘s top technical analyst Tom Fitzpatrick stated gold could head to $3,500. “We believe we are back into that track where gold is the hard currency of choice, and we expect for this trend to accelerate going forward.”

    None of these parties thinks the gold bull market is over. What they care about is safety in this uncertain environment, as well as what they see as enormous potential upside.

  15. Again, are we being recounted gold PURCHASES, or gold FLOW?
    We have to realize that gold had this year made a come back as MONEY. The money that buys Iranian oil.

    All we hear are the inflows of various countries, and outlflows of others. Never the other side of the picture. This comes across as orchestrated misinfo to me.

  16. I’m a brand new stacker and love these low prices.  I could use a year or two to prepare.  I just wanted to say I think we have to be careful for what we wish for.  I’m retired Army (Intelligence or lack there of).  Four years ago I bought a farm in the middle of nowhere and assumed the crash position.  It is tough trying to survive even with a Walmart 30 minutes away.  I hope and pray the Sh** never hits the fan.  I hope I never make a dime on my stack and it goes to my sons (one who is a US Army Ranger and is in combat 4 months out of every year).  I even hope my a**hole brother in law with his 4500 sf home and leased everything, is right and I am crazy.  Ok, maybe just for him I would like to see the SHTF.  I really hope I don’t have to fire any of my 25000 rounds of ammo in anger.  Just saying hope and pray for the best and prepare for the worst.  Unfortunately with the people we have running the show “Something wicked this way comes”.  As Charlie says “Keep Stacking”!

    • Old Army  Nice stack of ammo.  If you’re like me you’ll be putting that ammo and firearms in your will.  We did.  So hopefully we wont have to expend all ammo in defense of liberty.  Your bro will rue the day he got that money pit.  We dumped ours 5 years ago and bivvied in the mountains.  Nice place to live—farming stinks since it’s snow 6 months out of the year but we have all the pine cones we can eat
      Like Eule Gibbons used to say– some parts of the pine cone are edible.  So’s cheat grass and bear crap.  But what i would’nt give for 5 acres and some goats

    • Yes, 25k rounds is a terrific ammo stack.  Mine is much smaller but it is growing.  Hope to get it up to 10k rounds one day.
       
      Not a goat guy myself but yep to the 5 acres.  That could be set up nicely with a large garden, a big pond, a fruit and nut orchard, a wood lot, some grazing space if a cow seems a good idea, and some chickens and rabbits.  With some sun, water, and sweat a guy could grow just about anything he really needed.  An acre of potatoes should produce enough alcohol to run the farm equipment with the distilled mash fed to a couple of happy pigs.  :-)
       
      Hmmm… on second though, maybe 10 acres…  lol
       

    • I’ve been a gun collector (and ammo) my whole life.  Told my wife that our guns were our 401k plan.  I’ve got an 85 acre cattle farm with no cattle as cattle are sky high right now.  I figure I will get my cattle for PM when it gets bad.  I’ve got my chickens, and have everything ready for rabbits and pigs this Spring.  Had my first garden 3 years ago and love it…nothing better than putting up and eating your own food.  With 3 spring feed ponds and all the fish, deer and turkey I can eat.  I have my dream place but wish it was 10 acres.  I’m 50 yo and fit but an acre of potatoes would kill me Ed.  I do a couple of 100 foot rows and digging those is not fun. 

    • “Told my wife that our guns were our 401k plan.”
       
      Not a bad way to save money at all.  Back around 1980 or so, I fell in love with a blued steel 6″ barreled .357 magnum Colt Python.  It was the most beautiful handgun I had ever seen and the action was butter smooth with a trigger break like thin glass.  But, at $500, it was just more than I could afford to spend.  That was the equivalent of 2 ounces of gold at the time.  Anyway, I settled for a cheaper S&W Model 19, also with 6″ barrel and in .357 magnum.  I still have it and it still shoots well.  Not as well as that Colt, though, which now goes for closer to $2-3,000 than $500!  Yes, I do in fact regret not biting the bullet and buying a Python when I could have.  :-/
       
      Your place sounds like a really nice set-up.  Just about ideal, in fact.  Well done.  :-)
       
      “I’m 50 yo and fit but an acre of potatoes would kill me Ed.  I do a couple of 100 foot rows and digging those is not fun.”
       
      Well, I’m 64, not in the greatest shape, and love digging potatoes anyway.  I am also a big fan of automating the process as much as possible.  It’s the adult equivalent of an Easter egg hunt for me.  I don’t dig fast but I am relentless.  lol
       
      One thing I am gonna try this spring is to get 3-4 large plastic barrels, put in some dirt and composted manure and a few seed potatoes.  When they sprout, I will cover the part coming up with more dirt / compost.  I will do this in layers until the barrels are full up to within about 2″ of their tops.  I will water them a little but otherwise let them soak up the sun.  When the tops dry up, I will tip over the barrels and collect LOTS of ‘taters… with no digging at all… except to refill the drums for next season.  I have not tried this but hear that it works well.  We’ll see.  No, it’s not anywhere near an acre but then I live in the ‘burbs (for now) where land is small and dreams are big.  :-)
       

  17. I must admit i was a former sceptic of Silver but i have to admit the fundamentals for owning it are getting stronger everyday which even though it may go lower soon i’ve just bought 1500 ounces to add to my other 950. I can see a black swan event/events on the near horizon that will see Silver prices heading into the $50-150/oz range in the near future, within 18 months….There will be a time soon when people will be jealous that they could have bought below $50, we are living in the “good old days” right now, understanding this is the key! People will be saying, “you bought silver in the 20′s, 30′s and 40′s, WOW, LUCKY BASTARD…..If only i had done that!!! …………..buy now, bye now :)………………

    • Those who recognize opportunity AND act make their own “luck”, IMO.
       
      If you don’t mind saying, what form of silver did you choose to buy?
       

    • What is “magic” with silver, is that it has 2 nice reasons to price up, when gold has only 1.
      If SHTF occurs, Gold will go up as a safe heaven, and then the silver also.
      But if everything goes well, economy recover, peace in the world etc..( we can dream), people don’t think about safe heaven, so gold less attractive, but the industrial use about silver will increase, then the price. Moreover with silver supply that will start to be tight in 10 years. 
      So my mind that it’s more wise to invest in silver that in Gold, even if it’s more complicated due to premium (20-22% at best here in Europe) and weight.
       
      Ed_B : the question was not for me, but for information I invest only in Austrian Philharmonics 1oz monster box, because the smallest premium (still 20-22% due to VAT). 17,9 € average stack (approx US$ 24)

    • @MaxSilver
       
      “Ed_B : the question was not for me, but for information I invest only in Austrian Philharmonics 1oz monster box, because the smallest premium (still 20-22% due to VAT). 17,9 € average stack (approx US$ 24)”
       
      Not a problem, Max.  Thanks for responding.  I am always curious as to what PMs people buy and why.  That’s how I learn whether or not I am missing a possible opportunity.  Yes, I can see why you like the Philharmonics. particularly in the monster boxes for minimizing the premium.  The VAT would certainly complicate things.  I expect the Obamunists to try to implement a VAT here in the states at some point.  They are in love with the European model of government, so anything done in Europe just HAS to be good, right?  Well, some are and some aren’t.  There is no one size fits all in these things.
       
      I divide my stack in 3 ways: 1) US 90% silver coins; 2) ASEs and Maples in roughly equal amounts; and 3) gold Maples.  At the moment, the ASEs and silver Maples are about 70% of my stack value.  The gold is the next largest amount at about 20% with the US 90% silver coins bringing up the rear at about 10%.  I like the idea of the US 90% silver coins as possible barter items for small purchases and for making change.  The ASEs and silver Maples are just nice solid 1-oz. pieces of silver with elegant designs that many people would recognize as being real money… maybe not at first but they would learn quickly in an economic collapse.  They are cheaper than US Morgan and Peace silver dollars but contain a full oz. of silver and not the 0.77 oz. of silver in a US silver dollar.  I do have 40-50 US silver dollars, though.  The gold Maples are for buying large items and are my portable stash in case things go bad quickly and we need to get mobile in a hurry.  One can pack quite a lot of wealth in their jeans pockets if it is in gold and it is not obvious that you have it.  Silver is very nice, though, and I don’t want to limit my stack to only gold or only silver.  There’s no reason to do that, IMO, when both are available and so nice to own.

  18. That’s it! I’m done! If Yahoo says it, damn it must be true! Selling off my 3000 ounce stack. Who’ll start the bidding at $50 bucks? Why $50 bucks you ask? Because Sinclair and Willie are never wrong to true believers, so if you know that Silver is going to 100 bucks or better, you and I will come out just fine! We both make money!

    • @Ranger
       
      How about a counter offer?  How about you sell me your stack at $15 an oz. and then when it shoots up to $50 I will give you a rebate of $35 per ounce?  ;-)
       

    • @Ranger
      Hey Ranger…are you a Ranger?  My son is in 2/75.  If so you should know you should “embrace the suck”.  Like everything in life, hard work and PATIENTS will payoff.  This will pay off in our lifetime…when?  Who the hell knows…I sure won’t blow smoke, but it is coming and sooner rather than later.  Look at the 10 year treasure rate…they have to stomp the rate down every morning now.  Did you buy all your silver at once at a high price?  Getting rich quick only works for politicians, insiders and the very very lucky.  It could be worse…you could have bought mining stocks last Spring…..now those people have 1/10 of their money. 

  19. The 4 largest stockholders of Yahoo are Fidelity, Vanguard, State Street and Black Rock. If you include their mutual fund holdings, they have over 25% ownership in Yahoo.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=YHOO+Major+Holders

    Now compare to CBS, the responsible party for the propaganda article SD posted the other day: Yahoo finance shows who the largest shareholders of CBS Corporation are (current price over 63/share):

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=CBS+Major+Holders

    1.)Vanguard Group (over 27 million shares)
    4.)State Street Corporation (over 24 million shares)
    6.)BlackRock Institutional Trust Company, N.A. (over 15 million shares)
    7.)FMR, LLC [Fidelity] (over 15 million shares)

    http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/08/fulford-weekly-newsletter-blurb-2743704.html

    “For those who wish to do their own fact checking there is a way to show the West is ruled by a secret totalitarian regime. Take a look at the ownership control of the Fortune 500 companies that dominate the economy. It can all be traced, as can the ownership of the Federal Reserve Board and the 12 largest banking corporations to four entities: BlackRock, State Street, Vanguard and Fidelity. The ownership by a few families (the usual suspects like Rockefeller, Rothschild, Warburg, Morgan etc.) of most economic activity of course includes ownership of the media, text-book publishing and educational institutions of import.”

    Clearly the ownership is virtually the same. CBS=YAHOO=Rockefellers=Rothschilds=Federal Reserve Bank.

  20. I am jealous Old Army   85 acres sounds like a real Shangrila.  With wild game cattle might be moot.  EdB mentioned that scary word “Sweat”   My name is not Manuel Labor.  But I’d hire out the workers who wanted part of the crop, silver or both   But on a more serious note, non GMO organic crops sound like a good way to go, particularly with the 3 natural water sources.  A couple of friends have talked about 5 acres on the far side of Fallon NV.  Near the military base for a ‘just in case’redoubt, 5 acres with water, backed up to BLM land, an elevated position for clear 360 view, a acre for goats, chickens, rabbits and a couple of dogs, plus 3 acres for crops would be manageable.  Deer and other wild game off the BLM land would be just fine.  Maybe a serious look in 2014.   Nevada land prices are ramping up a bit but to gold prospectors, both small scale and large, is bidding up the prices.  Maybe a mining claim can be added in     I’m more of an Eddie Albert Green Acres type though. All that heavy lifting would probably wear out what’s left of the bones
    Edb that idea of brewing up some potato moonshine would be a Class A 100% great idea if things got a little dicey. Alcohol and tobacco are the two best trade items. A crop of Medical Marijuana would be a decent cash source.
    While I am not afficianado of pot nor a user (never liked the effect–alcohol is much preferred) I am happy in a strange way that Colorado made recreational MJ legal. The Fed good squads still consider Pot a federal crime. Anything that a state can do that strikes a ‘blow’ for freedom from the heavy hand of the feds gets my approval even if it’s a repeal of another form of prohibition. Pot is nontheless a strong substance. The unintended consequences of its legalization may cause the Coloradans to regret that choice. We are visiting relatives in CO in May and will see first hand how that legalization works out. But giving the Feds the stink finger sounds like a great start. Now if we could get some other legislators to give the Feds and Obama the middle digit on drones, NDAA, NDRP and anything that restricts personal private liberties, particularly all those pesky amendment, works for me. Our fearless leaders in Nevada approved medical MJ. I feel a headache coming on. But they also gave the green light to being a drone research and production state Sheesh Do drones taste like chicken?

    • Pot Shops will follow in the footsteps of Casino’s, even here in the bible belt.    Tax revenues put dollar signs in a crooked politicians eyes. 
       
      Here are a couple of thoughts on MSM news stories I saw last weekend.  The end of the unemployment dollars last week for 1,000′s will get those people off the books and will help make the next unemployment numbers look awesome… along with the inflow of seasonal workers at Wal Mart.  Ben Bernanke will look like a hero.
        People stuck 13 miles from the end of the ice pack in Antarctica… in the middle of the summer!!!  The southern hemisphere is in the summer months.  Northern hemisphere MSM doesnt realize this, I guess.  I was waiting for the global changers to explain this dilemma in the Antarctic… Last night, they did just that… believe this – I think it was on MSNBC, their scientist stated that models show that the ice in Antarctica can be increased due to warmer oceans.  ???!!!. 

    • @ AGXIIK
      Moved from Oregon to Kentucky, so alcohol is not a problem here.  Thinking of getting a few bee hives to round out my trading stock.  The problem with the “end of the world as we know it” is that we don’t know what to expect when we get there.  How does one prepare for what they don’t know?  One example is with the land and timber I have I burn wood for heat….do I stock up on chains for my chain saw…fuel…axes…saws…I guess yes to all the above but if one has limited resources it can be hard to pick what resources one needs.  Silver, gold, copper and lead.  I have already decided that half my stack will not be sold at any price…same goes for ammo (unless my life is at stake).    Stacking is a state of mind no matter what you stack…silver, ammo, firewood, or food.  It is being prepared for what you don’t know.  If you are in it just for the money then in my humble opinion you should not be in PM…trade paper.

    • @AGXIIK
       
      “EdB mentioned that scary word “Sweat”   My name is not Manuel Labor.  But I’d hire out the workers who wanted part of the crop, silver or both”
       
      Indeed, AG.  If we do get into one of those SHTF episodes within our lifetimes, PMs will be money and most people won’t have any.  Stackers will rule, if we are not rotof***ed by TPTB (which I readily agree IS possible).  Still, he who has the gold / silver WILL be in FAR better financial shape than those folks who do not.  Hiring all the physical effort needed will not be at all difficult.  What is that old labor rate… a silver dime or two a day?  Something like that.  :-)
       
      “A couple of friends have talked about 5 acres on the far side of Fallon NV.  Near the military base for a ‘just in case’redoubt…”
       
      Would living next to a big fat target be wise during a SHTF scenario?  If that scenario doesn’t involve war, then maybe.  Of course, living near a large number of highly-trained and well-armed people who find themselves getting hungry might not be the best of places.  What say you?
       
      “Edb that idea of brewing up some potato moonshine would be a Class A 100% great idea if things got a little dicey.”
       
      As a distillation expert, no problem.  We could heart-cut the batch for the good drinking stuff while blending the rest of the OVHDs stream for fuel.  I don’t wanna sweat any more than I have to either, so would be powering the small but necessary equipment with 95% alcohol fuel rather than gasoline or diesel.  Rejetting the carb and perhaps adjusting the spark timing should be about all one needs do to make that work well enough but the engines have to be able to use gasohol so that the ethanol doesn’t dissolve the seals.  This is usually only a problem with the old equipment that requires pure gasoline.  Almost all of the stuff made in the past 20 or so years is alcohol compatible.  Did I mention that once the still is well cleaned out via this process, we should be able to make some very nice fruit brandies.  :-)
       
      “While I am not afficianado of pot nor a user (never liked the effect–alcohol is much preferred) I am happy in a strange way that Colorado made recreational MJ legal.”
       
      Same here and my home state of Washington also has just legalized the recreational use of Mary Jane.  All manner of legal flopping and kicking is now going on as they try to set up viable rules and regs.  It is likely that the Feds will soon give up trying to mess with this other than with the large growers.  People growing a few pot plants in their back yard and consuming the product on their own property will likely be ignored, as it is not cost effective to mess with them.  One funny thing is that pot plant seeds can be found in practically all “natural” bird seed mixtures sold commercially in the US.  They are the ones that look like tiny coconuts.  I read that somewhere.  ;-)
       
      No, they just couldn’t leave it the hell alone and allow some laissez faire capitalism to occur.  That would surely break their little socialist hearts!
       
      “The unintended consequences of its legalization may cause the Coloradans to regret that choice.”
       
      That is quite possible.  On the other hand, pot seems no worse for us than alcohol, so one man’s poison is another man’s potion.  A lot of drunks get very aggressive when driving while most pot smokers get paranoid and drive very slowly.  Maybe that’s an improvement.  Impaired is probably impaired, though, no matter the reason.  The good news is that this is one of the last shots to be fired in the drug war.  It is over.  The Gov has lost and it is getting to be time to admit that. It is time for them to see recreational drugs and alcohol in the same light… as tax revenue resources.  Don’t encourage drug consumption but do make it as safe as possible for those who do.  Without the Gov involved in fighting them, drugs will likely get a lot cheaper and perhaps regulated to be more pure.  Shrug.  People WILL find ways to f*** themselves up regardless of what anyone else thinks is proper, dangerous, or does to stop them.
       
      “Do drones taste like chicken?”
       
      Probably not.  But they do seem to fly a lot at altitudes reachable via a .50-cal or .338 cal rifle.  ;-)
       

  21. Max silver 
      I’m constantly asking myself what will happen to the prices of gold and silver in the following scenarios:

    1. We muddle along in SNAFU mode; nothing really dramatic happening; but how will that affect the prices of PMs?  People will still want their consumer goods filled with commercial precious metals, I suppose.  But without some major event to shake people out of their sleep, will metals appreciate at all? Maybe a slow retracement off the present lows and a long time period before most of us are break even.**
    2.  A major banking and currency crisis.  Will that kick off inflation, severe paper asset deflation including currecnies and stock markets, forcing people to race to something tangible like PMs   That happened in the 1970 time period. Pension and capital confiscations would scare people into action, much like what happened in my case, thinking the financial world was going to force some bad results to the paper markets. People would flood to the streets looking for safe harbor.
    3.  A major societal collapse, either on a regional basis, or world wide.  All predictions are off the table with that but PMs have real value since the military and government have insatiable appetites for silver and gold during times of war; medical use will ramp up and communications and electronics will have a large appetite for precious metals.  
    It seems that 2 and 3 are worst case  and more likely.
    But in reality we don’t know what the next 6 months will bring much less the next 2-5 years
    ** those who bought heavily at $20an ounce will be singing the praises of their wisdom. we will applaud that too. Just be very careful of the tax consequences of sales. Best plan is the Hogan’s Heroes Ploy. “Hogan—I see nothing, nothing!” Sgt Schultz was a smart man LOL

    • Add to your list the possibility of a US dollar devaluation.  This could be done more than once, say in a step-wise fashion.  It would not be anything new.  FDR did it back in ’33.  It’s probably happened at other times as well.  The repricing of gold from under $21 to $35 an oz. was about a 69% devaluation of the US dollar, so not at all a small thing.  Imagine going to sleep one night and waking up the next morning only to discover that the buying power of your savings was 1/3 of what it was the day before.  This is happening in some countries these days.  Venezuela and Argentina come to mind.  Considering all the monetary and fiscal shenanigans going on in the US these days, it is definitely not out of the question.  It’s basically just a kinder and gentler version of a US dollar collapse.
       

  22. How on earth can he make such a prediction based on only 43 years of data? Secondly, the last 14 years have been nothing like the world has seen before. The internet has changed everything. Made everything faster. This includes peaks and troughs in the markets. Gold can be traded in such vast quantities that there is an equal chance of it going up in the next 18 years exponentially.
     
    When the paper market in gold/silver is finally broken through non delivery, that is when the true price discovery will occur. It could go anywhere at this point, up or down (relative to the price at that point in time, which also could be much higher than now, or lower, but not lower than $1215 per troy oz)
     
    I placed my bet, and its rolling for 10 years…for better or for worse….I think its a good bet, I seen the odds, done the research based my price on $1215 bottom in gold…and I KNOW I am right. Basing on the FACT that energy prices, always rise, that wages,  must rise, and nearly all perishable goods RISE….I think I am on to a winner. If you can’t mine gold for less than $1215 in the future, prices must go up. So, get it now, get it quick. “Its an all in” scenario as far as I am concerned. Might go down a bit SHORT term, but it will ALWAYS rise higher than $1215.

    {In fact, after the bernanke speech this afternoon, I will be placing my orders.}
     
     

  23. willnotbeslave 
    At the risk of being called a FIAT luddite, the notion of BTC escapes me. 
    I’ll print and study what you posted above.
    If China is giving BTC the stink finger and within a couple of weeks of it being accepted in China you know things not right about it despite it’s potential for appreciation. 
    The IRS is all over BTC and has way sof finding out how much you may have made if you leave a trail of exchanges even if the BTC is in an encrypted wallet.  Dread Pirate Robert’s stack from Silk Road is worth about $130 million. The FBI has that stack.
    I recall Intel paying $500,000,000 for a tech company in San Diego in 1999.  The company was nothing more than an MBA dissertation on a soft ware process but Intel snapped it up like breakfast for half a billion dollars. Wow. 
    That should have told me the tech wreck was straight ahead (Nope, I didnt get that message) 
      The company was a POS . Intel was had big time
    But the point to me is that BTC, for whatever its antecedents, may be a government honey pot.  Venturing into that arena is not for me.  I can conceal, hide, trade and work the precious metals markets and moolah stacks with the best of them and with total anonymity.  That works for me.  Others on this site with much greater technical knowledge are working the systems of BTC and other Digi currencies. I wish them the best.   Once BTC evolves to whatever end is in store for it, others will come along to replace it and provide more security for those who chose to use it.  Maybe BTC will be the Beta Max or 8 Track of the digicurrency world.
    I would love to see something that makes it possible for the average Joe to move his assets around without the government peeking into his affairs.  The new upcoming NSA Quantum computers  and ther denecrytion abilities, coupled with the IRS’s stance on trading and making a profit using BTC (for a goverment that is bankrupt that is Job One) plus the IRS being a new gate keeper for much of the nation’s health care system, and the road to digi-fiat is going to be rough.
    Imagine the questions on your 1040
    Do you use, or have you used Bitcoin, for any transactions? 
    If yes, send us all your assets– we impute that you made a capital gains (there will be a special cap gain for BTC)

    If no, they probably know if you are so you will be denied access to any doctor in the land—put on the TSA equivalent of a ‘Do Not Fly” list.  Only this list will be the   “Please go and die” list.  But only after you send the government all your assets.
    It seems to me that when the Nazis were exterminating the Jews, nothing of value was left over.  Teeth, hair, shoes, even their skin, used for lamp shades.  My thought is that if you get crossways with the government you’ll be sliced and diced into transplantable parts and sold off to the highest bidder.  The proceeds used to pay your portion of the national debt.  The Red Chinese Army has a near monopoly on that system today. I hope I’m not giving the ghouls ideas.
     

    • AKXIIK, regarding bitcoin, I have certain things to say, but this is the final word – I stay away from it !!! I am an expert computer systems analyst and programmer of the old school. Bitcoin is a computer generated value, with a certain maximum number of coins, much like prime numbers. What do we know about the real authors of bitcoin? NOTHING ! Who holds the biggest number of bitcoins? And how did they get a hold of these? Hmmmm?
       
      And finally, WHO has the most powerful supercomputers in the world? There was one article wriiten about BTC and how its chain block contains ALL the transaction history. Imagine these – How big would that data block become as it is used for many transactions? All identifiable information is preserved for whoever want to analyze all the owners and their usage. Hmmmm?
       
      BTC has no intrinsic value, for me. It is a purely speculative tool for the greedy, the quick money gamblers, and the fools. And you still have to convert BTC in paper currency to use it?

    • @AGXIIK >>> Dread Pirate Robert’s stack from Silk Road is worth about $130 million. The FBI has that stack.
      I know, and many more so called ‘stolen’ coins of the restricted total qty have been ‘marked’ for ‘ostracization/quarantine’. My biggest question to the BTC community is that if the whole system is NOT controlled by a central authority, then who on Earth decides which coins are or are not stolen and that they cannot be used for future purchase?
      Also when the blockchain of transactions became accidentally split back in the earlier days (but it was still a big international network of users/miners back then) MaxKeiser announced on his show that ‘It is OK, WE had a hiccup, but WE seem to have resolved the problem’, so the same question comes to mind; WHO? How on Earth did a de-centralized group of CryptoCurrencyAnarchists, ‘come together’ to patch up a split blockchain that once split starts to multiply its data across the entire network like a new species that has just split a chromosome?
       
      @Genuis8 .Can you perhaps help answer the above question? You said you had some knowledge of systems analysis … I myself was only a database analyst and info guy, but never got into Net Protocols that much, so maybe you can help me out. This particular facet of BitCoin is really erking me because I can only conclude that even though it does in fact claim to be outside anyone’s ‘Jurisdiction’, that it does in fact suffer from many symptoms of shall we say ‘Sovereign Risk’ (even though it has no Sovereign … apparently).
       
      I smell a big fat Cartel and NSA rat, and also see its purpose as a PsyOp to assist the Western Gold Pool depletion and also resist the move to the Gold Backed Yuan or any other national WRC alternative to USD … see my comment back up the thread for some more info I posted … this issue is really interesting to me and I cannot see why more PM’s bugs are not calling it out and discussing the many problems with any digital cryptocurrency. The Anarchists have simply picked it up like a Mantra and announced it to be their new CyberChrist (Keiser even called it that once) … which is super scary.
       
      >>> Imagine these – How big would that data block become as it is used for many transactions? All identifiable information is preserved for whoever want to analyze all the owners and their usage. Hmmmm?
      And I had this thought a while ago too. Also with all of the coming ‘Dark Wallet’ and ‘Tumbler Washing’ of coins, this data would simply build up even quicker. Someone did mention to me once that it has a way of Truncating some of this past data (which is essentially Meta Data) after a certain amount of time so that only the upper and newer section of the chain is used to identify the coins, but of course the NSA stores Historical Backups of ALL Meta Data that passes their unavoidable Nodes in the network that splice all data passing by, which means they can have roving automated BitCoin trackers that simply retain a data record for each BitCoin that retain ALL of the past blockchain data applied to every individual unique Coin/subCoin. @undeRGRound (you may be interested in this last point … I’m just trying to warn of the dangers :) )
       
      This has NSA and GCHQ written all over it, and now the MSM start openly supporting it, and JPM are even getting into the cryptocurrency action! BIG RED FLAGS … a wall of Red.

    • @WillNotBeASlave,
       
      My apologies. I am unable to answer your question regarding the BTC split transaction block chain and how a bunch of XXX is able to come together and fix the problem. I know nothing about the technical aspects of BTC, aside from what I read in a post regarding the transaction block chain. If I was to design BTC, I would do it differently.
       
      I have designed commercial application systems, such as Accounts Receivable, General Ledger, Production Costing, Inventory Control & Management, Installment Receivables, Health Insurance, Branded (Supermarket) Goods, etc. and written thousands of programs in COBOL/RPG400 on mini-computer systems thru mainframes, from System 360/370 to OS/400. I am totally ignorant of Net Protocols and Networking Stuff.
       
      But the basics of Systems Analysis and Design is the same. What is the End Product? What are the objectives? Profit? Or? 
       
      From what I can tell, you need special hardware (computer equipment) to run the BTC mining process. Wow ! Money for the manufacturer, even before the END USER starts, and is it true that it costs around $6,000 per unit? That means the BTC Developers have designed the whole scheme to be a Money Maker for them, by letting suckers fund its speculative rise, with clever advertising to make it seem very easy to Get Rich Quick? Free Money from NOTHING?
       
      Who are the developers of BTC ? How come everything about these people are in the dark? Anything that can be generated by a computer, means that the ones who have the most powerful computers ARE ITS MASTERS! I am actually pissed off at the big push of trying to convince everyone that BTC is a Currency! Let the greedy and the fools have it. Not me. All I see are TRAPS, weaknesses, and problems for those who buy into it.

    • Our BTC mining unit was ~$6000 for 2.5 TH/sec and you can got up to 7.5 for ~$14k and this is the current benchmark. 
      28 nm Processor Architecture. The first BTC miner with 20 nm chips is only available in a 3 TH/sec unit, and it is $9995 
      but the smaller processor sizing promises better speeds. These are ASIC chips, in short, meaning Application Specific Integrated Circuit. 
      The other type of algo (Scrypt) uses GPU’s or Gaming Processor Units. Much slower, but the algo is simpler too. 
       
      IMO, there may be a year or two of “wild west” style BitCoin usage, then it will all be just the hum-drum of data processing 
      and fee charging. If one could make up to 1% of all BTC processed, it would be still quite lucrative. Even at the starting 
      levels we are doing. Looking at making at least $500 per day CLEAR, after electrical costs. Keeping the BTC “in system” 
      equals no capital gains, under normal tax codes. I am thinking of doing an SDIRA like Uncle AGXIIK and that will defray 
      some of the taxes too. By the time the next real BTC craze hits, we will be running plenty of TH/sec and raking in good coin. 
      Fortune Favors the Bold, but this is not even Stack money. It is money that could be labeled “Venture Capital”. OK to lose, 
      but it is highly preferable to make money, as opposed to losing it! Worth the risk, IMO

    • @Genuis8 >>>I have designed commercial application systems, such as Accounts Receivable, General Ledger, Production Costing, Inventory Control & Management, Installment Receivables, Health Insurance, Branded (Supermarket) Goods, etc. and written thousands of programs in COBOL/RPG400 on mini-computer systems thru mainframes, from System 360/370 to OS/400. I am totally ignorant of Net Protocols and Networking Stuff.
      You come from the same mold I do then … that is exactly the field I am in, and like you I have dodged Net Protocol.
      I agree with the rest of your statements 100%, good to see I’m not alone in this. Thanks for considering the question, maybe someone else out there can answer it.
      @undeRGRound
      In some ways I know where you are coming from, and in other ways it seems like you are ‘feeding the beast’ so to speak; I have to be honest.
      In the 1980′s after the De Gaulle Gold Crisis and the switching of the Gold Backing to pseudo-Oil Backing through the shotgun wedding of the White House and the House of Saud, the price of Gold started to climb as people thought the USD was toast, but after everyone realized that the new PetroDollar System was not going away (ie, Military backed) the PERCEPTION was changed and people stopped the run of physical PM’s … BitCoin if you are correct and your personal example is being copied by many may in fact simply be the next stage of the planned global consolidation of everyone’s wealth, because this would still mean the death of the USD and Hard CASH and the adoption of a purely digital fiat, with downline consequences for a World Government. Any which way the wind blows, BTC is still Fiat, because it has exactly the same backing as LiteCoin or whichever other clone. The argument IMO that BTC is no different to any other technology that gets so far ahead that it outstrips all clones enough to become a self maintained monopoly IMO is incorrect when it comes to digital cryptocurrency because with something like BTC there is a direct financial impetus for people to use new clones as a ponzi trampoline on the ride up and then to surf only the new rising clones etc… this is not the same with running an Email server, or an Operating system which is much more costly and requires much more capital investment to compete with rivals.
       
      Basically, I can see where you are coming from, but it scares the shit out of me because I know this is a manipulation of Human Nature, (and a bad one at that) in order to further aid the same kinds of people who created the Fed.
       
      BitCoin is as such in my opinion a SiliconFed … the new evolution of the Borg.
      God help us all.

  24. Mammoth  thank youfor the offer of the fertilizer  We have a problem here at my house.  We have asphalt in front and lots of trees behind.  Our condo is on a 45 degreee slope and terracing is out since the Forestly dept and the HOA own the land.  They would veto any growing since it intereferes with the natural growth   touching a weed, tree of bush is hate speech and the amount of sun available under the forest canopy is pretty close to zilch.   Most of the trees are even age with interlocking crowns, terrible for tree health but the tree nazis arond here wont let you cut a branch lest theu rain down the wrath of Dog on you.
    So the local market and Costco are our farm until we find something else  Moving to the country country is not an option but having a arm off the grid would be nice.  maybe 1-2 years from now.  Then there is the ‘sweat’ issue.  Mahindra and John Deere sound like good options

  25. willnotbeaslave   The FBI took about 1/6 of Dread Pirates stack of roughly 600,000 BTC.  The story goes that he has the rest in secure wallets.  BTC can be hacked and stolen by sophicated BTC pirates.  Mt Gox and other banks have been raided.  Roberts will probably be squeezed, turned or put into a depp hole unless he gives up what he knows.  Kim Dotcom seemed to have gotten some of the same treatment.  Roberts is suing to get his BTC back but the FBI says they may just dump them—where—for what—who knows.

    Max Keiser has be babbling about many things, BTC the most recent.  IMO he is a shill of the first order and probably little more than a chattering monkeyboy on the payroll of some element of the government NSA-type of disinfo structure.  Jeff Berwick is all over BTC. He may find his plans of offshoring of precious metals, TVD outposts, second passports and continual rants about the USSA has him firmly in the crosshairs of TPTB.  His carrying on about the statists and wrapping his arms around BTC may prove unwise.
     Just a few BTC traced to him and backtraced to something less savory, even if it’s made up, would be the fruit of the poisoned BTC DigiFiat tree.
    If BTC if a creation of the NSA and CIA then many good people who embrace this crypto currency will get hurt badly.  If JPM is getting into it, then they are either incredibly stupid or part of the BTC/NSA paradigm. Maybe they’re some of both, thinking they can profit from it without getting their fingers burned. 
    If there is a Hegelian Dialect aspect wrapped around this I can’t figure it out at this time.   If it was created by the dark forces in the government then it is certainly Hegelian in its nature and thus a trap easier for the aware to avoid.  I would not want to try to profit from it even for a moment. Most will not know to avoid it, thinking it’s the holy grail that will allow them to work government scrutiny when it is exactly the thing that allows the government to watch them closely.
    This is wickedly good spycraft if it is what you think may be. I tend to agree. Nothing the government does that involves this sort of thing ends well for the general mass of people. They get rubed
    Backtracing BTC to its roots would be similar to taking millions of human DNA samples world wide and thus being able to trace the progress of human evolution, the paths humanity took out of Africa and what each of us has in our original bits of DNA that trace our antececents back to the original Adam and Eve found in the African veldt 250,000 years ago.
    BTC will be traced much faster and with less effort and human participation. It’ll be mostly computer time to connect those dots

    • “Roberts will probably be squeezed, turned or put into a depp hole unless he gives up what he knows.”
       
      Can we say “Gitmo”?  Why, yes, we can!
       

    • @AGXIIK>>> Max Keiser has be babbling about many things, BTC the most recent.  IMO he is a shill of the first order and probably little more than a chattering monkeyboy on the payroll of some element of the government NSA-type of disinfo structure.
      I have to agree … too much coffee, and too much shilling makes Max a crazy clown.
      >>>BTC will be traced much faster and with less effort and human participation. It’ll be mostly computer time to connect those dots
      Bingo. With a programming background in Databasing I know exactly how easy this is, and with what the NSA and GCHQ has at their disposal and the fact that 85% of ALL Global internet data passes through Anglo-American Node Infrastructure which has already been revealed to be spliced by intelligence agencies, there is no way that anyone can get away from these men in black … digital-algo-men-in-black … IT IS FULL ON MATRIX MAN, it’s so damn spycraft on steroids it makes the hair on my neck stand up.
       
      How about Intelligent-Algo-Bot-ID-Shadows? everyone gets their own intelligent Shadow Algo to hunt down their data and transactions and to keep a personal file on them? Even report to a special actually manned Human department when certain types of activity is detected, or profiling triggers are met? Personal psychological profiles tied in with your shopping habits, and a Cloud View of who your friends are and who you are trading with. George Orwell eat your heart out. Those idiots that say that NSA can’t possibly have enough man power to analyze all the data they collect are compete apes … intelligent computing is so far ahead of what most people consider it to be.
       
      @Ed_B They’ll hold him upside down and shake his lunch money out of him for sure :)

    • Good Points, AG
       
      There is a counterpoint… 
      Everyone’s Favorite PM Conspiracy Theorist Deluxe says BTC is a tool of the Good Guys. 
      If so, Kewl. If not, be prepared to exit the system (or at least reduce exposure) to minimum. 
      If TPTB is running it, plans definitely change. Immensely. 

    • @WillNotBeASlave
       
      They’ll hold him upside down and shake his lunch money out of him for sure “
       
      Ha ha… now, there’s an image!  I would not put it past them, though… plus any other dastardly things their tiny minds can envision.
       

  26. genius8 
    If it took a goodly amount of equipment and capital to set up BTC it would stand to reason that the goverment could have provided some seed money.
    The Winklevoss brothers were supposedly involved early on.   If memory serves me there was a set number of bitcoins, 27,000,000 worth about 10 cents each.  If they’ve gone to $700-1,000  per coin lately then whoever started this BTC tulip mania is a genius, excuse the reference, and has horswoggled many people in the process and profited handsomely.
      That is a 10,000 fold increase, even better than an investment in FaCIAbook I think. 
    Those two cornholio brothers probably did this out of spite after Zuckerberg snookered them. 
    I heard their settlement payday was only $60,000,000.   Mark Andreason and others are getting into other alt currencies.  How that will work out is unknown.  It would probably be hard to create any alternative currency without the NSA knowing how to track it.
     

    • FaCIAbook. That’s pure gold, I haven’t heard that one before … it is now added to my dictionary, cheers
      >>>whoever started this BTC tulip mania is a genius, excuse the reference, and has horswoggled many people in the process and profited handsomely.
      Yes, and also aided in the creation of a World Government enabling turning point in history. I’d like to know the exact person that kicked it off, I would give them the biggest beating they could imagine.

    • “I’d like to know the exact person that kicked it off, I would give them the biggest beating they could imagine.”
       
      Yep… with a $100 face value bag of silver coins!  Somehow, that seems appropriate.
       

    • @AGXIIK
      21 Million BTC is the cap. Under 13 million have been “mined” so far. BTC has already specified units down to 
      .000,000,01 BTC (10^-8). 
      Assuming each of these 10^-8 BTC were assigned to “U$D Units” there are 2.1 QUADRILLION Available Units of BTC. This covers even the most “out there” estimates of the total derivatives markets that I have seen. Funny Coincidence? I think not… ;)

  27. willnotbeaslave  Considering how many unemployed Germans joined the Nazi party, the war machinery and industries to go to war this done in light of the need for warm bodies, plus the Jews, POWs and undesireables forced to labor  AND DIE in the mines and factories, civilian recruitment in this country would be a snap—seriously. There would be lines around the block to sign up to spy on one’s neighbors. Considering how easy it is for TPTB to recruit people to act as trolls and shills, the cube farms would be filled to the brim.

    I see vast correctional facilities and debtor farm prisons filled with Americans laboring to support the spy/war machine, chained to computer terminals, forced to observe and monitor a specific number of Americans as they go about their daily business.  The East German secret police had thousands of block captains and apartment spies keeping track of the zeks the Old School way:  Paper pencils and humint. 
    A single big brother computer could track hundreds. If the employees at the SEC spend most of their days scrolling through internet porn, imagine what a person with such tendencies cold do if let loose on the public.
    London has over 500,000 CCTVs to keep watch on every square inch in that city wit hundreds of observers sitting at their screens.
    There will be hundreds of of thousands of students* defaulting on their loans.  Student loan debtor prisons will be de riguer.  Today there are provisions in the student loan agreements that a recipient of these loans can work off his indentured servitude if he goes to work for the government for a period of years.  10 years is what I recall.
    There are 25,000,000 unemployeds, 50,000,000 people getting government subsidies, millions who will need health care and would probably trade their premiums to act as a spy for the MATRIX, nothing would surprise me

    Remember the Milgrim experiment in which a person was told to shock to person in another room if that person failed to answer a question correctly. I watched that in a class back in high school. Some of the shock administers would take the voltage to the max and were able to ignore the screams of the tortured. That was scary video.
    The volunteers administering the shocks were paid the equivalent of 4 ounces of silver $4.50 for their participation. The people being shocked was just a recording.

    *slave camp volunteers in training

    • “Considering how many unemployed Germans joined the Nazi party…”
       
      Yep.  Them and the commies too.  Depending on where a person was located, it soon became impossible to get a job if you weren’t a party member.  Many people joined the Nazis and Commies to avoid starvation rather than because of any overt love for their politics.  Now that is one incentive for expanding the membership rolls.

    • @undeRGRound
       
      Yep, union membership is a work requirement in some places.  It seems wrong to me to force people into a union if they do not want to be in one.  This is the other side of the same coin that says you can’t join a union if you want.  Neither of these is a good thing, IMO.  Each of us should get to make that choice for ourselves and others should not be making it for us, either way.
       
      I don’t know about Schindler, other than that he made a “list”.
       

  28. undeRGRound   If anyone can pull this off you can.  do you plan to convert your daily haul to something more tangible on a daily basis. If that is the case you could convert it to a usable commodity. It would be like fishing.  You take the fish to market the day you catch them.  Otherwise you have somethat that becomes very unsellable in very short order
    Do you have any sort of kill switch that can prevent some sort of MATRIX-like blowback if the blue meanies come lurking in your bitcoin harvester.  I hear that Massey Furguson makes a real nice combine. It will harvest Bitcoin and any other crypto-currency.  I can see you  in BTC coveralls and a baseball cap that has a catchy saying. 

    • Like any other big venture, I will likely get my original investment SAFE, and then diversify the rest. 
      Thinking of delving into other cryptos, these obscure ones can make money 3 to 5 times FASTER than 
      BTC because they have more headroom. A la our friend “P”, @AGXIIK… You hooked me up with him. 
      I’m thinking somewhere around 50% hard assets, on a payday basis (doubt that pool mining pays daily) 
      25% left in BTC and 25% in riskier cryptos and associated hardware. There may be 1-2 years of potential 
      profits in this if the cautious are correct. There are currency exchanges that allow trading within an NYSE-style 
      exchange. Needs heavy scrutiny, though. Might be ran by a Bernie Madoff type  LOL

  29. Great stuff on BTC guys, thanks. I’ve been battling the Zero Hedge BTC Brigade for months (and have given up now). None of them will even entertain the thought that is is a scam or hoax or has been compromised. And none of them can provide any credible info on Satoshi or whoever supposedly created or is behind BTC. They use the BTC threads to hammer and discredit gold and silver holders too. Many of them are gov’t bots or trolls (I can sniff them out easily).
     
    BTC is ruining Zero Hedge, imo. Might be the nail in the coffin for the Tyler(s). Divide and conquer is the goal on all of this and it’s obvious to me BTC doesn’t pass the smell test at all.

  30. So BOP, you can sniff out trolls? 
    I have zero ability to detect these vermins. 
    You must have the same sense of smell like  those truffle snufflers in France, able to detect the fungus well underground. 
    How do you do this?   It might help my critical thinking.   I get really tired of being duped by seemingly well thought out arguments that are little more than shallow cess thought pools.

    • LMAO….I don’t know what it is AG, but others have told me I have an uncanny ability to sniff and flush them out.
       
      It’s in the speech patterns and key words and phrases that they use and you can usually can spot them. Not only that, they use ad hom attacks, like Sprott and other gurus being “wrong” yet gold rising 12 years in a row until this past year. Lately its been using TA data to paint a horribly negative bias in the face of rising worldwide physical demand (China, Russia, India, Turkey, etc…all buying). But that argument only works if you believe we have free markets (which we don’t). I point to the lack of gov’t regulation and enforcement when confronted by that flimsy argument (SEC and CFTC being captured, along with the fraud ridden COMEX being run via the Wall St. crime syndicate). The truth is right in front of us. It is not hidden. Those that can’t, or won’t see it, need to be confronted and dealt with accordingly. Sometimes you have to call people out. That’s just the way it is.

      You guys are brilliant in so many other areas, so don’t concern yourself too much with this nonsense. I have your back. Peace and Aloha…  :)

    • “Truffle-Snuffling, Indeed!  :D”
       
      Yep, lol.  Only in this case, with trolls and other low-life critters, it is more like “trifle-sniffing” than truffle-sniffing.  ;-)
       

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