bank-holidayDavid Morgan joins Ellis Martin to discuss JP Morgan Chase’s upcoming dictate to limit out of country wire transfers as of November 17, 2013.
Will there be a bank run and an economic collapse caused by a banking system failure? What do the banks know that the country doesn’t?
Morgan also discusses the historical perspective for returning to a gold standard, and his current outlook on the metals.

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Trivium 5 oz 2

 

  1. For those of us who do not have 20 minutes to watch a video, or don’t have audio on our computers, perhaps somebody can jot down the pointers from Morgan’s latest.
     
    However, one thing I do know is that if there is a bank holiday – it will affect ALL of us, even those of us who only keep a minimum balance in our bank accounts.

  2. Let’s face it – this “crash” is taking a lot longer than most of us thought. And according to Catherine Austin Fitts there will be no crash. This video is worth listening to in its entirety – at least listen from 38:00 till the end…

    How many of you guys stacking silver agree? I am all in on silver and I have been looking for a crash. Maybe I have been looking for the wrong event? What do you guys think???

    • David has been so wrong I can’t even listen to his interviews anymore and just skip to the comments section.  I still believe investing in metals is a smart move because the govt’s balance sheet is too big for taxes to cover even with adding on $1 Tril or $2 Tril per year in debt.  Somewhere, somehow you must pay the Piper. 
       
      I like Catherine Austin’s interview and believe there’s a lot of truth but the problem still exists where outgoing payments vastly exceed incoming tax revenues.  Its become apparent the rest of the world is taking steps to stop this.

    • @sam520 … thanks for asking the $10m question, which nobody ever seems to ask, except me to myself :) I completely disagree with Catherine Austin-Fitts. She is a very clever old bird, and this is the perfect distractor for this moment in time. Haven’t we all been wondering forever, ‘when TF will this happen?’, and then she comes along to say there will be no crash!! It’s clever because she knows our situation very well. I totally believe she cannot be trusted. She refers to the elites/zionists/etc as a ‘breakaway civilisation’, which to me implies a compliment to these guys as if they have taken off, so to speak. This is inconsistent with someone who, as she presents herself, is one who cares for the ordinary people. She gives advice to the poor, while her business is gold storage for the rich, and numerous other lucrative businesses because she has no other life or love other than making money and gaining power. She is a fraud, but one of the more difficult-to-see ones.
       
      Important to remember that One World Gov and a global bank are the goals here, and as Karl Marx realised and advised his fellow cabal during his time, ‘OWG is impossible without violence’, which means there definitely will be a crash (he is presented as a hero, and that is typical of them and their MSM), and there will have to be a crash, for the goal of OWG, which we never stop hearing about unfortunately. Isn’t the ‘crash’ theme a huge one in the MSM during the last year? (SF plane crash, train crashes all over Europe and Canada – the numbers used in these reports (dates, deaths, etc) indicate that the crash starts this year, probably November). That’s how they communicate among themselves IMO.
       
      I am all in myself  … this is definitely coming, and VERY soon.

    • It’s not clear what she is saying from the couple of minutes I watched this (38:00 onwards). Maybe her definition of “collapse” is just a different one.
       
      However, this will happen, don’t get discouraged from the time it is taking. It probably won’t happen as quickly as some people (including SD) want to make us think it will happen though, so don’t hold your breath for it. I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened tomorrow, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened in two years from now. However, I would be very surprised if it didn’t happen at all…
       
      Just look at the whole picture… put the pieces together… it really makes a lot of sense. Look at how the GOFOs went negative again, just when the PMs fell under a certain point and the upwards pressure that created. Look at Andrew Mcguire’s predictions and the many times he has been completely right. Look at MSM. The decline of the dollar. No tapering ever. etc etc..
       
      Oh, and never ever go all in, because nobody can predict the future. Not even now should you go all in. Also diversify between gold and silver, maybe according to your age. If your PMs really made +1000% or +2000%, wouldn’t you gladly take even a total loss in your other assets?
       
      Think for yourself and get your info from independent sources like SD. In the end, you have to make the decisions. Hope this helps.

    • Thanks for all of the input.
      I am glad to see that even though we are a little unsure of the timing it appears that we believe that things can’t go on as they have for the last 100 years. The thing that concerns me most is — it appears that everything has been scripted, the stage is set, and the nations are all playing their parts. Surely, if we are smart enough to see what is coming, the Elite are even smarter. They may destroy everything but ultimately they want their PMs to be overvalued. Regardless, we are awake and will never go quitely.

    • “It’s not clear what she is saying from the couple of minutes I watched this (38:00 onwards). Maybe her definition of “collapse” is just a different one.”
       
      I also watched from 38:00 on (thanks, Sam!) and she did make one reference to collapse in that it probably won’t happen all at once.  Some things, we know not which, likely will collapse but others may or may not.  It is VERY important to keep in mind that a collapse is unlikely to be an event… it is much more likely to be a process and one that will very likely play out over time.  Various events will occur that do not appear to be related at first but that are related and interdependent, as some events will affect, influence, and be affected and influenced by others.  History will have a clear view of this after the fact but it will be tumultuous, confusing, and unclear at the time… as usual.
       
      It is entirely possible that some of the initial parts of the collapse have already started.  This is the part of the “train wreck” analogy where the train is picking up speed, taking corners more and more violently, the cars are rocking and rolling, leaning this way and that, the couplings are about to separate, and some of the cars appear to be leaving the track.  Only a few of the cars have left the track (Lehman Bros., Bear Sterns, MF Global, PFG-Best, Sentinel, Bank of Cyprus, and Greece)  but most of them have not yet left the track although it sure looks as if they will before too much longer.
       
      Unfortunately, there is no way to know how much time that will take or when it will begin.  Many of us are thinking that it will be “soon” but that’s a relative term.  We know that TPTB have great power and are able to stretch these kinds of things out FAR longer than most of us would think possible.
       
      The awful part of a potential collapse scenario is that it is so common for TPTB to start a war or wars to distract most of humanity from what’s really happening or to further their goals in some way or other.  This is an age-old technique that they have used MANY times.  The nasty part of it is, that it works, so they will keep using it until it stops working.
       

  3. I started at 38:00 with the Catherine Austin Fitts interview as you suggested. At 38:50 she says we run around the world with our military and steal Natural Resources on the cheap, and then adds the false notion ‘thats fine,’ sarcastically of course….WRONG! We spend trillions of dollars warring all over the world and get very little or nothing in the way of NR on the cheap. That is a fallacy…middle class america pays and pays dearly. where is all our cheap oil from $$ spent in Iraq? Where is all our cheap stuff from Pakistan? Afghanistan? Name me any place? Lots of thefts going on out there but nothing resulting in ‘cheap stuff’ for middle america. It would be cheaper for us to buy everything at market price without the wars. Then again at 40:30 she has to mention how we(USA) “go around the world stealing from everybody else, not to mention the land we are sitting on(so we can have everything on the cheap)” This land ain’t cheap here! I luv the prognosticators that vilify america as if we are the only ones in the world that stole lands from indigenous people. We not only pay more than anyone else, we have thru lives spent with the greatest generation in WWII saved the world from theft by fascist slavery! We have done some good out there before ‘stupid took over america’ and keeps voting….Ha! There also is evidence out there that even native americans here stole this land from others! Stealing land seems to be the natural order of things in the world history of mankind. Even PC present day europeans are guilty of that one! Sheesh! then she proposes remedies to fix everything…blatent evidence of NHAC! Though I do agree with some points she makes here, most self appointed gurus would do themselves a favor by zipping it on some subjects!…..LOL…. S

    • The wars need to any themselves, not fund the country. Afghanistan was about opium. Harvests are doing awesomely with the petty farmers droned down. The profits can be used for CIA to hire foreign mercenaries to fulfill the role of rebels in Syria. Etc, etc.
      But yeah, you’ve been getting bad at the war looting. Each war is tallied up as a win, while the rest of world hides in a double face palm sighing “losers”.
      Try and deduct $1T from your economy, and see what you’re scratch first. It cannot be sustained. Especially when the world decides it has a viable alternative for the dollar. This will be after the may holders of dollars are ready to take a deep haircut, or have exited comfortably.
      How much devaluation of the dollar will do good on the debt to GDP ratio? How much devaluation of the dollar will turn a $1T annual deficit magically into a surplus actually used to start paying back debt rather than just getting cheap interest? When the dollar crashes, who’ll take 3% on their bonds? Would even 10% get people interested? What was the going price for Titanic cruise tickets by the time it was tilting over vertically? 
      I don’t see a solution, but the FEDs may have worked out a plan. They’ve come up with some impressive stuff to drag this one along. You have to give them that.

    • @BigTom, we do get everything cheaper when we fight wars that leave the rest of the world reliant on FRN’s. We just print what we need, make sure the most important commodity in history can only be bought and sold with them, and then let all those people conquered by our financial system finance our addiction to debt. It doesn’t matter whether the oil in Iraq is cheap to us or some other country,……we benefit through the petrodollar. It’s just the flow of oil that matters, it’s the flow of petrodollars.
      But the world is getting tired of holding the useless US debt paper and they are tiring of the dollar. The world has hit the saturation point and, like an overstretched rubber band, it is going to snap back in a pretty pronounced way.

    • @Not Sure
       
      “But the world is getting tired of holding the useless US debt paper and they are tiring of the dollar. The world has hit the saturation point and, like an overstretched rubber band, it is going to snap back in a pretty pronounced way.”
       
      It’s possible that this effect is even more generic than this.  Perhaps we could say that creditor nations are tiring of all this debt OF ANY KIND, not just US debt.  
       
      I agree that the creditor nations are tiring of the vast amounts of USD that are printed each year, every one of which devalues the USD / UST bonds they received as payment fore their goods / raw materials and are holding as reserves.
       
      Also agree that when people are abused and pushed too long they WILL push back in some way or other at some point. Like a lot of this, we do not know when that will occur, although China and the other BRICS countries seem to have a handle on it.
       

  4. *shrug* banks go down I am set for the winter. Into the no-shut off time for utilities so no issue there. I generate 1/3 of my own electricity each month so that is not an issue, I will just have to give up the clothes dryer and water heater. I can boil water to bath in so not like I can’t live. Have enough food for a year+… no car or house payment so that is not a problem. I loose my cell phone and internet oh well, I have ham radio to keep in touch.

    • On that topic MaryB; Did you see that episode last night about America’s Grid going down?  My wife got my attention last night while I was resurfacing a rifle stock in the garage, and since it’s right up my alley, I thought I’d take a break and get some entertainment….
      I had to make corrective statements towards my wife, because on day three, things were still fairly calm.  The people in the elevator, the people on the streets… no looting, no shooting… 72 hours and NO POWER!
       
      I had to intercede during a very important message from our sponsers…. I’m sorry, but in 72 hours, without water, many people are dead, most very weak.  72 hours no power, the BLACK city nights would have been RIFE with crime, with the local law enforcement overwhelmed with traffic, and other domestic calls.  When the police started herding folks on day 5, and bashing them, it was like something pathetically snipped from Europe, where the local peasants, who are used to being abused just flowed with the bullies and succumbed to the STATE. – 5 days? No Power? Cops trying to bash folks?  I just can’t buy it! Local Militia will have set that crap straight!  And probably helped in some/most cities to establish community watch/assistance… yes or no, there would not be 10,000 people being abused in the streets of AMERICA!  We’re not sheep… naive maybe, gullible for sure… but the one statistic it got right was approx. 300 million firearms in America’s hands.
      Anyway… Hope you have some seeds Mary, 1 years food passes by quickly.

    • Speaking of the power going down, I am sure you are aware of the GridEx II testing on the grids taking place on 11-13-13. Understand that when an invading army enters a country the first thing they do is destroy the elect, water, etc. See what Jim Stone has to say on this issue. He is a great journalist and is not an arm chair reporter gathering facts on the net. See what you think…  http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/grid.html

    • @Shamus001
       
      “I’m sorry, but in 72 hours, without water, many people are dead, most very weak.”
       
      That’s a bit dramatic but just the thing for TV.  Water will not disappear from the Earth if the local municipal water systems cannot get power.  Water towers will continue to gravity flow water for a few days after the power stops.  Water heaters and toilet tanks are filled with water.  A little bleach might be needed to make sure they are free of bacteria but most homes have that available.  Then, of course, there are fountains, swimming pools, creeks, rivers, lakes, and streams all of which can provide water that can be treated via boiling or adding bleach to make them safe to drink.
       
      Even without city water, most people have some sort of “water” available to them in their kitchens, whether that be fruit or vegetable juice, pop, beer, wine, canned milk, or some other drink item.  Distilled spirits will dehydrate a person quickly, so drinking them is out when a person is thirsty… not that everyone knows this, of course.
       
      Finally, we have the few, the intrepid, the preppers… those of us who have taken steps to be sure that we will have water or that we can purify water from nearby sources for drinking in case the local water system fails.  :-)
       
      I did watch parts of that show and found it somewhat interesting.  For a MUCH better view of this sort of thing, read the book “One Second After” by William R. Forstchen.  It is both fascinating and terrifying.
       

    • @Ed_B , @Shamus001 , After 72 hours there will be many people who are desperate for water – the less-intelligent mouth-breathers will be the first to do stupid things like drink untreated water and get sick.  So, after a couple days there will begin a die-off (Darwin-style) of the lower IQ folks and their spawn.
       
      Sorry if this sounds cold, but this WILL indeed happen if the clean water supply is cut off.

    • @Mammoth
       
      Oh, I have NO doubt whatever that this WILL happen.  I just don’t think that it will happen as quickly as was presented in the TV show. Hot dry weather would exacerbate this situation for sure, just as cool weather and rain would ameliorate it.
       
      No, I do not think that this sounds cold.  It sounds to me as if we will get to this stage, probably in 8-10 days once the easy to get water here and there has been used up.  I am not saying that people can go without water for 10 days.  I am saying that they will find some, drink it all up, and THEN be ravenously thirsty / desperate / dangerous.  Most cities and towns are built on lakes and rivers, so there WILL be water in many places.  The trick, as you mention, is whether or not that water is either clean enough to drink or can be made so fairly easily.  It will take a terrible toll on those who have no preps or survival knowledge.  The elderly and the very young will likely suffer most, while young healthy adults will suffer the least.
       
      The big problem with open water, such as lakes and streams, is that they could become contaminated with sewage.  Boiling and filtering such water would be necessary before drinking it.  Cholera is a terrible disease and often fatal if untreated.  It is food and water borne and comes from drinking sewage-contaminated water or eating sewage contaminated food, such as seafood harvested from contaminated waters.  Cholera is a nasty disease and spreads easily.  There are other diseases that one can get from bad drinking water and none of them are pleasant.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholera

       
      All this brings up a critical issue, though.  During ANY SHTF situation, the last 3 things that anyone wants to be is:  sick, injured, or in jail.  Any of these could be fatal during difficult times. 
       

  5. Shamus – I have to LOL at your description here. Sounds like a television version of how things will play out. Every one sitting around by candlelight helping out and singing kumbya together.  a stretch I know, but it gives me comic relief at a medium I do not like, LMAO….Sounds like a discussion I recently had about wolves with 2 environmentalist. ‘They only take out the weak and the old from the herd, they don’t really hurt the herd,’ I was informed. Yeah, right! Scenario: Wolves sit around spying on the herd, ‘hey sammy, does that one over there look sick to you? I’m hungry.’ “Don’t know Ralphy, whatta you think? I think it looks sick. do you? Sheesh, hard to tell if he is sick enough to take out of the herd and eat. You know we can’t just go and do that unless they are sick. Someone did a study that said we only eat the sick and the old.’ conversation in a wolf pack doesn’t really quite happen that way. It is more like, ‘f*&k sammy, I’m hungry, lets eat that poor sob over there!’ wham they take it down and start eating on a still live and flailing about animal. No euthanasia or anything like that folks!  So it will go if SHTF in the cities…..

    • No, predators do not discuss what’s for dinner with each other.  They simply start chasing a herd, the herd runs away at full speed, and the one that can’t keep up with the rest ends up on the menu.  In many cases, that WILL be the very young, the old, and the sick or lame.  They simply do not have either the strength or the endurance to get away.
       
      No doubt these enviro-boneheads would have a different view of things if a hungry wolf pack was eyeing them as a possible meal.  Just ask the Russians what they think of wolves.  Most of them KNOW that starving wolves are not all that uncommon in rural Russia and that they will dine on people, either if their usual game is not available or they are too weak from hunger to take down anything with the strength to fight them off.
       

    • Ed_B – There must be an awful lot of ‘very young, the old, and the sick or lame’ out where I live because the wolves have been decimating the elk herds around here. Moose have really vanished…..You are very correct on the wolves in russia issue. Few people, even out here with the wolf problems we have, are aware of that…..

    • OK, BigTom… I stand corrected.  Wolves will eat the young, the old, and the lame FIRST.  They are the easiest to catch.  But after they have been eaten, then they move up the line to the stronger, healthier, and faster animals.  :-)
       
      I would imagine that the Russians consider Americans to be absolutely bonkers for reinstating wolves in certain areas and protecting them by laws.  Shooting wolves in Russia was one of the VERY few reasons that the Soviet government accepted for a private citizen to have a rifle.  Many people do not know just how big an adult male wolf can get.  These are not mere dogs.  They are powerful predators with long legs for the chase, big teeth, and powerful jaws.  It only takes 2-3 of them to pull down big animals like moose and elk.  They are a lot more cautious with a bear but if hungry enough, anything can be on their menu.  An unarmed person in the open would have zero chance of running away or fending them off, if they were determined to eat him or her.
       

  6. They have a plan an it seems to be working the U.S. government. Only the American people suffer some. No great economy an the jobs suck. But this is what I think is happening. The created this economic collapse a bad one. So they come into the capitalist economy to rule it an run it the way they want. There plan is? from here keep buying 85 billion a month of treasury debt an keep rolling it over so not much of it get into the economy this would cause inflation. An by just putting say 50 billion into the banks they can lend 10 times that much out. Meaning the banks now have vast amounts of money in there banks beyond what they ever had in the past. There buy up propping up the stock market an burning money keeping the pms prices down. and buying the dollar endex up. All with no inflation they control all most everything. What I don’t understand is why the banks don’t lend at all there killing the economy. Its like they know this  economy is dead and are waiting for the new world one to replace it ?

  7. That Nat Geo presentation was not realistic to the degree that within 3-4 hours the loss of power and the loss of EBT/SNAP cards would have that population of users explode and strip the stores.  Just like when the Xerox system went down 3 weeks ago.  Things would go down from there.  Once stores were stripped, anything the government could or would do would be ineffective, just like Katrina, only on a much large basis. 
    As for Morgan, it’s not material if he’s right. There are 5 of these opinions from these folks a day.  Nothing against Morgan I just don’t think any one of them can imagine how bad it would be if the banking system crashed, leaving no means to pay for anything, including the entire supply chain that relies on the flow of credit.  Whether the enitre grid went down or only part, there are not enough available resources to handle demands on the system for more than a day or two.  Anything more and that would be a miracle.
     

    • “Once stores were stripped, anything the government could or would do would be ineffective, just like Katrina, only on a much large basis.”
       
      This is a really good point, AG.  People need to consider that the hurricanes that have battered the US are pretty much point of impact disasters.  They devastate a relatively small part of the US at one time, leaving the rest of the country in its usual condition and able to provide aid of various kinds but mostly food, water, medicine, fuel, blankets, tents, etc.  In spite of the relatively localized damage, the Fed Gov is not very good at supplying large amounts of assistance in these cases.  What would make anyone think that they could do so in a very wide-spread emergency?  This is why a lot of us here prep, yet we are few in number compared to the national population.  Ironically, the very same people who refuse to prep would not think of playing golf in a thunderstorm.  I see the risks of both as being similar.
       

  8. PS My banker is sniffing something which I described in a couple of posts on the JPM restrictions, the new $100 bill and credit issues that are being effected by Dodd Frank. He’s of the opinion that there could be some rough waters come the first of the year.  There’s more to the JPM restrictions than meets the eye.  But with demands on bank capital requirements and lending curtailed by these rules, ringfencing of our US currency may be tough on everyone.

    • Beware when bankers start sniffing.  In most cases, they are on the scent of OPM.  Soon they will start baying, gathering in a large pack, and then pursing it until they bring it to Earth.  :-(
       

  9. Here’s my 2 cents worth.  First and foremost, I’m an all in stacker!
    We all are awaiting the big bang–for a myriad of reasons–.  The timeline to me, looks like this.  First, Obozocare will fall by imploding on itself.  That should happen after the 2014 spring.  Then the elections will determine if Obozo will be a lame duck or a raging muslim.  In any case, this time next year we will get economic upheaval.  Martial law will be a certainity when the masses revolt.  By this time, external pressures from the Middle East and elsewhere will make our fiat become even LESS desirable than now.  Before 2015 is too old, the silver you are holding will have easily quadrupled from todays price.  So hang in there.!

  10. I totally enjoy the articles and vids here which usually are very informative. But every week there is at least 1 article here talking about an impending crash of some sort in the next month. Who knows…..I just keep stacking and prepping when I can.

    • That’s really all any of us can do, Spore.  The thing is, we can all pretty much tell that the country is not moving in the right direction, that too many dumb things are being done while too few smart ones are being done, and that a crash of an unsustainable system is inevitable.  What we do not and cannot know, of course, is WHEN this will happen.  We all have our guesstimates as to when this will occur but no one really knows for sure.  
       
      Prepping is one of those no-brainers for anyone who actually thinks about it.  Stocking food and water is really inexpensive because we are going to eat this food at some point anyway.  We will either eat it during a disaster or we will consume it as we rotate our stocks over time.  Either way, it gets eaten.  The only difference will be that those who stock up will pay less for the food they eat because food prices are rising.  By buying food on sale and stocking up, we reduce the effect of inflation on our food budget.  Water is even less costly.  Just get some clean jugs, fill ‘em up, and put ‘em in a closet or spare room.  Plastic milk jugs work well for this and if you buy milk anyway, you will have a lot of them available.  Camping water jugs are good too but cost more.  I like the 7-gallon ones that have a spigot on them for easy draining into pots and pitchers for cooking and drinking.
       
      After food and water, stacking silver and gold is an excellent idea for one’s savings.  We know that inflation reduces the buying power of our currency, so saving money as currency is not a good plan over time.  Currency is for spending, not saving.  Regular buying of silver and gold is a way to convert currency into long-term savings.  Both will be useful at some point in the future.  Anything that is diluted becomes of less value.  This is why 100 proof booze costs more than 80 proof booze or 40 proof booze.  As water takes up more of the volume we are buying, it makes the booze less valuable.  The very same thing happens to currencies.  As more of it is printed, each note becomes a little less valuable.  The Fed has printed a LOT of USD and they are continuing to do so.  It is not hard to see that this will cause severe financial / economic problems at some unknown point in the future.  We know that gold and silver have been money for 5,000+ years and through some horrendous times.  They have an established track record of having and keeping their value, regardless of time or events… unlike fiat currencies.  They also have an established track record of absolute failure.  Every one of them has eventually become worth less and less until they finally become absolutely worthless.  
       
      Stack on, brother!  It is one of the very few things we can do that makes any financial sense whatever. 
       

  11. EdB   The note aboult wolves is they are very smart and highly aggressive.  Canis  Lupus Familiarus, our domesticated family dog is, in some cases, very wolf-like in appearance. Some of the domesticted breed are dangerous and best kept in the house or lock and key.  We raised two wolf pups to adulthood and kept them through their entire lives, with 7 ft fences and ground wire in a 1 acre avocado grove.  They were wonderful pets because we knew their potential and had an easy going alliance with them by knowing their capacities. Alpha predators do not make good pets if one does not know to handle them, as horse, wild bird and predator can quickly turn on its owners.  Wolves remember everything they see, have superman-like senses and are faster than nearly ny four legged and certainly two legged animal. They are the top tier predators in most of the northern hemisphere. A century ago they grew very fearful of man as we exterminated them by the milions. They avoid people due to this genetic marker that says humans are dangerous. It would take little time for the wolves in our hemisphere to lose that fear. I’m not saying we would see wolves in the streets, like mountain lions or bears, but people in some states are getting very tired of the predations of wolves reintroduced to their neighhoods.
    In our local area are there are scores of people who own wolf hybrids, a cross between a wolf and a large dog like a malamute or shepherd. They are not true hybrids since they can breed but that is the name that stuck. Thousands of dogs live amongst us and while the real nature has been mostly bred out of them by us humans, can go feral within one generation. Detroit city reportedly has 50,000 feral dogs roaming in packs since Detroit cannot afford animal control officers–dog cops.  This is dangerous.
    If we get crossways with mother nature, whether in an natural or unnatural disaster,  we will be dealing with the four legged opponents who are hungry and recalling their wolf ancestors as they forage. That will take no more than 3-5 days as our food runs out. Our pets will be ‘second class citizens’ when our families need to eat. Cat and dog food is now a source of food for hungry families in America.

    I won’t say that the family cat will be much of adversary but they carry diseases. A stressed cat can stratch the living crap out of you  That is an infectioon vector that is serious and needs to be treated immediately.  We have had as many as 3 cats and scratches are a fact of life and one that needs to be dealt with.
    The biggest concern is not worrying about Fido coming after you but if you want a Mutual of Omaha Wild Kingdom moment, given a turn of events that makes food scarce and the wild animals in the woods will come looking for food.  We have at least 10- and maybe 15 bears that are regulars in the ‘vil.  They’ll peel your door, crack in the windows and make themselves a nuisance.  At 3-400 pounds, I would not want to encounter one or two anywhere if they were hungry.These monster bears are twice their natural size due to the ready availability for food in our homes and trash cans. No pistol will effectively stop them. They are like tanks and a thick fur can deflect a 9mm like a an armored vest.  There is an uneasy alliance in our area.  We don’t harrass the bears, they don’t eat us.  There’s lots of garbage and homes to be invaded to satisfy Yogi and BooBoo.

    The one critter that makes me take notice is the no-legged types, bacteria and other microscopic bad guys, that think of us the biggest casino buffeet table ever created.  That’s something for another conversation. 
    Guns and ammo do not work here. Clean water and sanitation protocols are a must. In my group I have first aid skills and would have two rules to avoid diseases.
    1.  Be careful at all times to avoid infections and injuries–take care to move slowly and thoughtfully to avoid injury. Think twice–cut once. Don’t do something rash that puts yourself at risk. Don’t go from being part of the solution TO PART OF THE PROBLEM.
    2.  Any cut, rash, nick, scrape, abrasion or even a splinter must be dealt with immediately–cleaned,  repaired and handled to prevent infections.  On my  new TO-DO list is acquiring fish antibiotics in human doses.  And stock those. They can be had without precription and  bought in doses that would work for people. 
    If someone has good intel on Fish Antibiotics, pro or con please post here or private message. Thank you

    • AGXIIK – There is a concern with pets if you live in a wolf habitat area. bing up ‘hydatid disease’ – a non welcome benefit from wolf introduction we were not told about back in 1995 when these things were forced down our throats. hydatid disease is still kept on the ‘QT’ for public knowledge. You may or may not already know about this. Fish Antibiotics? didn’t know about them but will look into it for our needs, thanks…..And the wolf hybrid thing! sheesh, a real issue screwing with genetics. Last month went thru the area directly east of Eugene, Ore on a motorcycle trip. met a lady that had a wolf hybrid and proud as hell of it. public has little conception of what they are doing here….IMO anyway……

  12. copy that Big Tom Wolves that are part of the natural balance tend to skew that balance by overpredation.  The elk, deer and other prey animals in the reintroduced area are being decimated by wolves.  This was not natural since the elk etc have no instincts to avoid this predatory.  I spoke with my new doc and he hunts in the area.   SSS signs are commonplace he told me.  Shot shovel and shut up.
    Once prey animals are depleted the domesticated farm animals are common targets. Along with pets  Kids and people will be next.  These wolves were imported from areas when the wolf has not fear of man. Our wolf-dogs, brother and sister, had the instinctive flight distance.  They were great pets but there were rules that needed to be followed.  Not our rules—theirs. Break a rule, you get hard mouthed or worse, a body part removed.  We followed the rules 
    It was either wolves or horses for my wife.  I hate poop details and horses give me the willies.  Been kicked, bit throwed and stomped.  Horses outweigh me 50 to 1  If I can’t pick it up and throw it, that’s not a pet.  Besides which horses can be really mean and stupid.  Not a good combo for your truly riding.  I fall hard and break.  Thanks—-I’ll take wolves or dogs.
    Most people get wolves for the wrong reason. My reason?  It made my wife very happy.  We researched for 6 months on the subject, visited the breeder in  TX and took delivery in early 1993.  They grew fast.  Howling forced the neighbors to run us out of our home. I understood that deal—so we moved to the country.  From there it was all good
    I have not heard of the disease you mention but wolves are very suceptible to stress related diseases, and like dogs, they pick up Fido’s diseases as well. It’s nature’s way of culling the pack.   We would not do this again—-to hard—to costly—to many demands.  But it was fun while it lasted.

  13. copy that Big Tom Wolves that are part of the natural balance tend to skew that balance by overpredation.  The elk, deer and other prey animals in the reintroduced area are being decimated by wolves.  This was not natural since the elk etc have no instincts to avoid this predatory.  I spoke with my new doc and he hunts in the area.   SSS signs are commonplace he told me.  Shot shovel and shut up.
    Once prey animals are depleted the domesticated farm animals are common targets. Along with pets  Kids and people will be next.  These wolves were imported from areas when the wolf has not fear of man. Our wolf-dogs, brother and sister, had the instinctive flight distance.  They were great pets but there were rules that needed to be followed.  Not our rules—theirs. Break a rule, you get hard mouthed or worse, a body part removed.  We followed the rules 
    It was either wolves or horses for my wife.  I hate poop details and horses give me the willies.  Been kicked, bit throwed and stomped.  Horses outweigh me 5 to 1  If I can’t pick it up and throw it, that’s not a pet.  Besides which horses can be really mean and stupid.  Not a good combo for your truly riding.  I fall hard and break.  Thanks—-I’ll take wolves or dogs.
    Most people get wolves for the wrong reason. My reason?  It made my wife very happy.  We researched for 6 months on the subject, visited the breeder in  TX and took delivery in early 1993.  They grew fast.  Howling forced the neighbors to run us out of our home. I understood that deal—so we moved to the country.  From there it was all good
    I have not heard of the disease you mention but wolves are very suceptible to stress related diseases, and like dogs, they pick up Fido’s diseases as well. It’s nature’s way of culling the pack.   We would not do this again—-to hard—to costly—to many demands.  But it was fun while it lasted.

    • Yep – the SSS thing is common practice here but we now do have a hunting season on them. If you do happen to shoot an extra one or two the fish and game tend to look the other way. The herd in my area has gone down from 16,000 to 2,000, approximate #’s. Loss of habitat is part of the problem also for the elk. You mentioned stress. Interesting. That is another factor in elk herd depletion. Everyone talks of depletion due to direct predation but herd stress is another important factor. When something is out there trying to eat you all the time, one tends to copulate less often, and females tend to abort fetuses much more often, which is another factor in herd reduction. So you take direct predation, herd stress and hydactid disease and it makes ‘bad’ for the herd! The latter two issues seldom if ever get talked about in public. You are not in wolf country where you live, I believe. But if you do happen to be around wolf areas one might want to be aware of the hydatid disease factor….
       
      I have to laugh at your pet horse experience. I know what you mean. They are nice to have as a working partner on a ranch as the need is often in some places, but as a pet? sheesh, a lot of work and expense for what recreational value most people get out of riding them. You are probabley getting ready for your hawaii trip soon, good luck…..

  14. HAwaii feet dry  this fri 11 am
    Re wolved n Alaaska.  The locals hate wolves.  Moose and elk are like their cattle.  Wolves will kill `10 and eat 1,  blood lust, and leave the rest to rot. When wolves devastate 90% of the herds in their area the wolf population drops but they continue predations, further damaging the herds to the point of herd population viability   The area becomes a Moose desert—-Bullwinkle gone missing. Wolves move on and destroy more herds.   CUlling by chopper is like Heli Hogging.  get rid of the pest
    Horses in northern NV strip the vegetation and turn up the fragile soil looking for food.  This is not their nature habital so culling by the BLM et al is the best solutions.  See the Marilyn Monroe Clark Gable  The Misfits   cash money horse hunting for the dog food companies.  Same old same old   An invasive species or one allow to run amuck results in the same problem. Kind of like what Agenda 21 wants to do with us
    DONT DRONE ME BRO’

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