Tungsten Filled 10oz PAMP Suisse Gold Bar Discovered in Manhattan

Last March, SilverDoctors broke news that quickly went viral throughout the PM community that a tungsten filled gold bar had been discovered in the UK.

Apparently Manhattan jewelry dealer Ibrahim Fadl caught the SD story, because he apparently decided to drill into over $100,000 worth of 10 oz PAMP Suisse gold bars because he had heard rumors of tungsten filled gold bars.   Rather than $18,000 worth of gold in each, Fadl discovered  beautiful $10 slabs of tungsten.

Fadl ‘had heard counterfeit gold bars were going around, so he drilled into several of his gold bars worth $100,000 and saw gray tungsten — not gold. The bar was filled with tungsten, which weighs nearly the same as gold but costs just over a dollar an ounce.

We now have our 2nd official confirmation of tungsten laced gold, and while still not a 400oz London bar, we seem to have a more professional counter-fitting situation on our hands.

 

The local FoxNY broke the story tonight:

What makes so devious is a real gold bar is purchased with the serial numbers and papers, then it is hollowed out, the gold is sold, the tungsten is put in, then the bar is closed up. That is a sophisticated operation.

MTB, the Swiss manufacturer of the gold bars, said customers should only buy from a reputable merchant. The problem, he admits, is Ibrahim Fadl is a very reputable merchant.

Raymond Nessim, CEO Manfra, Tordell & Brookes, said he has reported the situation to the FBI and Secret Service.

The Secret Service, which deals with counterfeits, said it is investigating.

 

Photographic documentation below:

 

The 10 oz PAMP tungsten bar prior to unwrapping it’s gold cover:

A counterfeit of this quality is not a mom and pop operation but requires EXTREME SOPHISTICATION! The quality of this counterfeit nearly guarantees that this is NOT an isolated incident- don’t think for one moment that the rumors of tungsten salted 400oz good delivery bars are not reality.

While this will be broadcast all over the MSM to attempt to scare the sheople into remaining in GLD and SLV and as far from physical PM’s as possible, in reality, it underscores the importance of acquiring your gold and silver bullion from a reputable dealer.

The local NY Fox news report:
New York News | NYC Breaking News

Comments

  1. These seem to be pics of different bars as judged by the similar and yet differing numbers.  I’m always wanting to look closely at our evidence. I’m not saying that there aren’t salted bars (I believe there are many), but I’m always looking for solid incontrovertible proof and there always seems to be some type of anomaly within the pics that allege this.  So, I think it important to let people know these are not all the same bar. 
    Thanks for posting.

    • It seems clear to me the first three photos are of the same bar. Pictures one and two appear to show the same hole, while pictures two and three clearly show the same corner broken off which would mean pictures one, two and three are of the same bar.

  2. I think he found more than one.  One is drilled and one he has ripped apart. Now just think if you owned a similar bar. I should think you’d be very worried about whether or not you have, what you think you have. Scary!!

    • In the first photo you can see the drill hole in the one he has ripped apart so I’m thinking it’s just one.

    • i’m not worried at all.
      i bought a few 10 oz gold bars (PAMP and also perth mint) a few years ago, and i’m not giving it a second thought, as they came from APMEX.
      if i’d bought them on ebay or craigslist, i’d definitely be concerned.

    • With the top photo as #1:

      1 & 3 are the same – front & back.
      2 is not the same as 1 as the drill holes are in different locations.
      4 has a different number than 3.
      2 & 4 may or may not be the same bar.

      Therefore, there are at least 2 bars and possibly 3.

  3. If these are this hi-tech, then smaller coins could no doubt be affected as well.  They may not seem as profitable, but  could be moreso if the specs were good.  Do coins often get stashed and ,thus, not melted as much as other bars?

    • most metal dealers will at best have a surface metal content scanner, not the x-ray kind.
      this means that to fool the surface scanners, you’d want to have a fairly thick layer of gold on the surface, so it’s much harder to do this with a coin, also less profitable as it would end up being mostly gold anyhow.
      i don’t know offhand what the thickness of the gold needs to be to fool a surface scan, but from the drill hole above i’m guessing it’s a couple mm at least, so that’d be a good portion of the coin already.
      olympus makes a decent XRF metals scanner:
      http://www.olympus-ims.com/en/xrf-xrd/delta-handheld/delta-precious-metals/
      would be sweet to have one of those, not sure if i want to put up the cash to buy one though.
      someone has a used one up on ebay for $25,000 right now, and that’s a bargain…
       

  4. Watch the video again.  A bar ending in 907 is shown cut in half with tungsten inside.
    I’d say he found several, at least three.

  5. one thing the story doesn’t mention, that i would be interested to know:
    what made ibrahim decide to suddenly start drilling into his gold bars?
     

  6. Wonder what is actually sitting in Fort Knox? Could be the reason the government won’t do an in depth audit.

  7. Fort Knox has been renamed to Fort Tungsten.

  8. @the-doc. There is a Chinese company that makes gold clad tungston bars as “gifts”. Check out their website at http://www.tungsten-alloy.com. Look on the left and scroll down until you find ‘gold substitution’.  You will be amazed.  

  9. Yikes, Ugly Dog!  That is scary!

    I get a kick out of their statement… “ Be very careful about automatically believing any story you may hear. For your own protection, tungsten fake gold coin would be better to take physical possession of the smaller sizes of tungsten fake gold coins … and know that what you own [are] genuine solid tungsten fake gold coin.”

    Yep, just as the Doc always says “If you don’t hold it you don’t own it”.  Even if it is fake! LOL

    Phil AZ 

  10. Some pics seem to show a sub-mm thick layer of gold, and the pic with the drill hold rather more than a mm, liek a coin thickness.

  11. I was told by a person of some reputation there was a US smelter that was involved with salting bullion bars for the US government.  Based on salted smaller bars being found, it would tend to make the story believable.  I do not think Ft. Tungsten is far from the truth.
     
    I prefer to deal in 1 oz coins.  My budget is limited and the possibility of fakes is somewhat reduced.

  12. YIKES!!!!  Was about to buy my first 100 oz bar…..NOT NOW!!  Looks like im sticking with constitutional silver. Pretty much no counterfeit, small denomination,  and best price over spot   :)

  13. “Counterfeiting is the first, last and only redoubt of the scoundrel”
    Sez me

  14. Interesting this coming out now just after QE3-infinity is announced. This could all be BS propaganda to put potential gold investors right off. When you have literally trillions, it is no problem to pay people to say this stuff in order to give the impression you want to give, just prior to the big reset.

  15. Nah, an oppurtunity for dealers to attract business. Allow customer to have holes drilled in 3 places of their choosing per 10oz bar, and then pay only for the net gold they are purchasing after their approval.

    *Guaranteed gold, drilled in your presence*

    Dealer makes a photo of the drilled bar (extra important the holes to be randomly placed) on a scale, the customer’s signature for agreement, and files that photo.

  16. Maybe he would have been better off if, after finding the first bar filled, he would have sold the rest to a major bank. Would be interesting to know where the liability starts and ends on these kind of things.

  17. @Crissy Yes indeed….give it to the Morgue.  Actually that is probably where it came from. I’d love to have one of those scanners myself @reflector that thing looks like a police laser gun!

  18. So should we start drilling all of our bars – or start requiring dealers drill their bars before we buy so that we know they are legit?

  19. Keep an eye out for the fake Perth Mint Dragons and Snakes, http://www.silverlunar.com/2012/03/silver-lunar-dragons-fake-vs-real.html.  They show the dragons compared to fakes, but there are also rumors the 2013 snake is being faked already along with 1oz gold kangaroo. 

  20. Holy cow, Batman!  Fake gold bars?  Who do these counterfeiters think they are, Ben Bernanke?  ;-)
     

  21. What a moral dilemma if you own exactly such 10oz bars.
    - Keep, and pray
    - try to unload at a dealer far from where they know you
    - see if you’re able to track your source, and regardless of result, pray some more, and drill them anyway

    The wait is for other types of bars being exposed.

    I suppose in a coin, the electrical resitance (in Ohm) from face to face of 6 to 12 o’clockl should easily determin authenticity?

  22. Maybe this is why regular tungsten filament light bulbs are being phased out, to supply the mint! Hehehehehehehehe………

    Another reason to stack silver instead of gold, silver coins are less likely to be tampered with, especially junk silver coins!
     

  23. I’m glad that I never bought an ounce or more gold bars and coins. The only gold that I bought were a one gram of gold from Engelhard and a 1/10 ounce of gold Maple Leaf. I’m also glad that I only bought silver bars and coins in one ounce form instead of buying the five ounces and more.

  24. I have 3 10 oz Pamp bars. I would hate to drill into them and destroy there beauty, but this has me really nervous. As stated in the article, I bought from a local reputable dealer. Any thought on whether to hack away at them or not?

    • Sure there are no other ways to check them out than drilling? You’re not in a hurry I supose. There should be electrical resistance tests and x-ray type stuff to try. Although letting it be tested and then swapped for 1-ounce coins might be a good (minor) investment…
      Swapping to silver even better, it’s not too late to swap, especially not with that amount of gold… 

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