By SD Contributor SRSrocco:

GOLD & SILVER = MONEY

ENERGY = MONEY

GOLD & SILVER = STORED TRADE-ABLE ENERGY

Gold & silver will be some of the best stores of value going forward, because they are stores of trade-able energy.  Not only will gold and silver protect ones wealth from the ravages of monetary debasement… but also from the increased costs of energy as well as future shortages.

 

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I have had some very interesting email exchanges from some of those who attended the 2013 Virtual SilverSeek Conference.  Some of these folks are HIGHER-UPS in the industry.

While some asked questions, most where quite surprised of the connection between precious metals and energy.  I mean… they were surprised that they didn’t make the connection before.

Some folks who are strict followers of the School of Austrian Economics… such as Peter Schiff, fail to understand the energy component of VALUE.

These same folks get stuck on the MARXIST Labor Theory of Value.  Because it came from an individual who was known for being the farther of MARXISM… they get a sour taste in their mouth.   Again, Adam Smith (Wealth of Nations) was writing and talking about the labor theory of value a century before Marx, and the Greeks and Romans were conducting trade with the same labor theory of value 2,000 years before those two gentlemen.

I despise ALL ISM’s.

Its like professional football.  As soon as a person picks a team… then the other team is the BAD GUY.

Anyhow… gold & silver will be some of the best stores of value going forward, because they are stores of trade-able energy.  Not only will gold and silver protect ones wealth from the ravages of monetary debasement… but also from the increased costs of energy as well as future shortages.

Nice to see Gold & Silver shoving it in the face of the paper traders today…

 

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  1. I can’t help But think that after the EVENT The price of fuel measured in Ag & Au will decline dramatically NOT IN PAPER THOUGH! Maybe not at first but, after the interuptions that will accompany the econimic collapse. Then again… who knows. But one should save all forms of fuel in preparation for these interuptions!

    • Jim’s good vs evil argument may seem like a stretch at first but it’s not. Gold prevents money creation by governments and bankers.  They cannot steal from people by inflation. If banks cannot create credit then their power is eroded.The Feds money printing caused the food riots in north Africa. Society would be better off if governments and banks didn’t have so much financial power.

  2. There is a pretty close relationship between the price of oil and precious metals, at least for the last 100 years or so. If anyone had a new good reason for assumulating silver, like you said Clintz, it’s good to stay ahead of fuel price increases.  Those are pretty  tightly locked and may be more so in the future.

    • “If anyone had a new good reason for assumulating silver…”
       
      I don’t even want to KNOW what this means!  I gotta admit, AG, that you could be on to one helluva secure hiding place for your silver! Even if that would make it difficult to walk without clanking. :-D
       

  3. Steve, it’s so refreshing to see SOMEONE connecting the co-relation between Labor and Energy. The one really does ‘qualify’ the intrinsic ‘worth’ of the other in a very palpable way, thus ‘descend’ or ‘accumulate’ into that of further product and goods.

  4. Right on Pat and AGX. The relationship between oil (commodity) and silver qualifies the intrinsic value. The relationship is there just as “I own this land”. So, they can tax you and take that land at their whim. No, I think not. So, I have some questions as to why we all answer posts instead of making a true opinion known.  DOC is tremendous (Thnks DOC) and started me on my silver stacking (Best site for all newcomers). Turd brings it on and pulls no punches. ZH and all the others will prevail over the the MSM.
     
    A couple of questions though. At SSH there’s a feeling we need a bigger expression of what we are all feeling. Say it here or anywhere but get it done.
     

     
     

  5. Sorry, but this is garbage. Precious metals do not equal energy. They both follow similar patterns of value and worth, but the connection is a triad. The piece in the equation you fail to note is human worth. Something is only worth what it is through the relationship of market value which is a discovered pricing mechanism. A shilling for example was a Saxon unit of currency that was the relationship between a sheep and a certain quantity of silver called a shilling. Over the years the value of a sheep fluctuated, so it was worth more or less than a shilling. Based on this supply and demand model, you can not say that gold equal a certain amount of energy. The price will be discovered at the point of exchange. It just so happens that because everything is artificially priced in dollars that both gold and oil are treated as a commodity and thus follow a similar pattern. If oil wsd being bought in gold as a currency, no doubt the price would fluctuate in the same way as in Saxon times.

    • If nobody wants silver, and if silver has no use at all, then it’s worth will be completely unrelated to the energy it cost to mine it, because nobody would pay for something they don’t want at all. In that respect you are correct, silver does not equal energy. However, there is a very strong relationship between the cost of silver and cost of mining it, at least until silver becomes useless.
      However, it seems that silver is become more useful by the day and more in demand. So an ounce of silver represents the energy it costs to mine an ounce of silver on the day that it is sold. And with declining ore grades and increasing energy consumption to mine an ounce of silver, it would seem that the amount of energy represented by an ounce of silver is increasing and will increase for the foreseeable future. That is a very exciting concept!

  6. Yes Waitingforsilver. They are the same to a certain extent. I the “olden days”, there was no oil. If, and only if, there is no oil, they may follow the same path. But, when TSHTF, the precious metals will prevail over oil. History says it is true. Most people can’t store enough oil on their personal property to have security unless you are already filthy rich. Stack on my friends.

    • “I the “olden days”, there was no oil.”
       
      Yes, there WAS oil.  Oil and gas have existed for at least millions of years .  What did not exist until 150 or so years ago was a market for oil and gas.  Prior to that, land containing oil and gas, which often bubbled to the surface, was considered worthless as it was not a good place for people, crops, or animals.
       

  7. Sorry 2Oz, I believe in the cause I really do, but ‘to certain extent’ does not make it a truism. Its this kind of double speak that got us to the place we are we the dollar. Silver, gold, horses, oil, name your need, are all only priced at time of exchange. Fact.
     
     
    Precious metals at this moment in time are just lumps of material waiting to be useful. They ain’t worth anything until
    You put it to the market test. Speaking of which, I will be testing the market next week with a tester of 5kgs of silver. Time to test the physical market. I only expect a 10% ROI, but let’s see the market kick my balls, time to man up and stop dreaming. After the sale, will come back for more silver :-) 

    • Sorry WFS but you’re about as clear as mud mate.
      “I believe in the cause I really do” then
      “After the sale , will come back for more silver : )”
      Do you see the dichotomy ? What is you’re targeted buy back in price for that 160 odd ounces?
      Sounds like you’re a trader, be sure there is Silver still at the store before you sell up and get the market to “lick my balls” (must be a traders term) for 10% and expect to get back in.
      Silver will need to be at least 5 times current value (not price), around 10:1 Au, before I even think about digging it up.
      This little see-saw game played against fiat is only to suck the maximum phyzz out of the market before demand goes balistic as will value and the Au/Ag will drop considerably.
      Just keep DCA stacking.
       
       

    • Clambake I am buying direct from the primary market, the actual silver refineries. I am moving out buying from the over hyped secondary market. I hope this clears up the mud for you.
       
       
      I bought 2.5KGs of silver last week when silver was around £19.60 per troy oz and will be selling it, starting Monday with a 10% margin, silver is at around £20.60 or 66p a gram.
       
       
      I am moving the stuff using my position in the industry and practically giving it away, with some costs. I also find it terrible that the UK has to pay 20% on investment grade silver. I will not be passing this on for as long as I possibly can.
       
       
      I strongly advise that if you can spread the wealth around, at the cheapest cost to yourself, then it is your moral duty as informed member of society to do so. People seem to be transfixed by coins and other products which form the secondary market. There is plenty of silver out there, as said I have taken delivery of 2.5 kg last week and will be purchasing another 2.5 kg next week.
       
      The short in the ASE has nothing to do with actual silver out there, more to do with the mint not purchasing enough silver for the demand in coins. I have spoken to some major European refineries last week, none have a shortage, they just keep on ticking, buying and selling using the LMBA fix which is set at 12pm London Time.

       
      This sale will have no effect on my personnel stash. And for your information, I am converting all my stack over to Gold asap. 50/1 will not change in the near future and I have been watching the markets for over 3 years now and the movement in the ratio hasn’t changed much. So I will sell the snake oil and buy the real stuff, gold.
       
       
       
      And the term is kick my balls. not lick my balls. I think you need to learn to read, then maybe things will not seem so muddy to you.
       
      Keep stacking silver if you want, me personally, stack gold, make money from silver. When there is significant movement between the gold/silver ratio, then I will be taking silver as money much more seriously. So far its a commodity, the same as oil all priced in Fiat. but a movement of a range of 45-50 isn’t much movement. I hear constantly of the over hyped 16/1 ratio, but we are talking over a period of 600 years since this ratio was real, before the Spanish discovered Mexico and flooded Europe with cheap silver.

    • OK OK Kick my balls. You are correct on that point, I should have read it a bit more carefully but maybe the confusion of the term distracted me. I still don’t understand it being lick or kick.
      Spreading the wealth is a socialist thing and I sure as hell don’t understand that.
      Our views are divergent to this point however they head in completely the other direction as far as Silver fundamentals go and how the rest of your theory stands, and however that is, if it works for you fine but I still don’t see it, not on the numbers you outlined above.
      Especially talking phyzz, so you’ve got the inconvenience of taking delivery and then delivery to market and pay tax etc and with the rest of the overheads the figures you state above it’s about a day and a halfs income, less, why bother with it when the price movement is not guaranteed and when it moves you have to also move to take the profit.
      As far as supply and demand go, as well as all stock pile Silver practically gone, the whole market is pretty much on an “as it’s produced, so is it consumed” basis, no buffer, any hiccough in supply is a squeeze on price of physical Silver regardless of what the paper market is doing.
      I understand that there are a number of possible primary resources able to be mined however it takes time for a deposit to “come on line” on the flip side to this 2/3′s of the world Silver production is a by-product of other mining so supply is limited to the demand of other metals.
      Increasing demand from both industry and investment in such a small market (as is the Gold market) can only put further pressure on a increasingly demanded but decresasingly accessable resource which relies on the energy sector to provide the means to deliver which is also becoming less accessable.
      If you are waiting for Silver to move against Gold, don’t get caught in the stampede.
      I’m not a full on Silver nut, I do have some Gold and started out on a 10:1 Au:Ag weight ratio but that has gone by the wayside and it is now more like a 10:1 dollar ratio because of my belief in Silvers future performance. Having said this I expect that some time in the future, in vastly different economic conditions than we are currently in, some of my stack will go to the next store of wealth.
      Good luck bud.
       
       

    • ” I still don’t understand it being lick or kick.”
       
      I used to know a gal who had a bumper sticker that read: “Mean people suck.  Nice people lick.  Most people suck.”
       
      I was afraid to ask her what any of that meant.  ;-)
       
       

  8. This is just saying that there’s always a ratio between oil and everything else.  As the oil price increases, everything else goes up in price because oil is the one item that affects practically every produced item.  My family farms wheat so a farmer can say WHEAT = STORED ENERGY.
    As a side note, I got into silver when I realized that the reason the price stayed around the $4-5 level for so long was simply because the US gov was supplying the deficit with their huge hoard.  I started buying a few years before it was believed the hoard would be gone.  Investor demand isn’t the main reason silver started rising around 2004, it was simply that the US had no more silver to supply to the market.  If the US still had a huge hoard of silver, I wouldn’t have touched the metal.

    • Wheat IS stored energy… solar energy.  It also takes a lot of gas or diesel to farm it.  Lots of my Dad’s relatives in OK and my Mom’s relatives in N. Dakota are or were wheat farmers.  Talk about a boom or bust living.

  9. silvertim you make a good point that wheat is stored energy   A consequence the drought and low corn and wheat production, price is high in oil production countries like Saudi Arabia.  The government subsidized food prices, a heavy cost to the royal family.  They have to boost the price of oil which boosts the price of fuel for mining silver and gold. The fact that the Mississsippi is very low is is slowing the shipments of coal, wheat and other products, creating further price pressures.  If wheat and corn jump in prices this year, everything related to energy will go up too.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

  10. I’ve enjoyed SRSrocco’s series highlighting this oft forgotten energy component of value.
    @waitingforsilver: most readers of this site attribute a monetary component to precious metals that has been obfuscated by Central Banks for the last century. We stack metal because the present fiat paper quote does not equal the(input energy+ labor+ monetary aggregates+ political risk), etc.  Many refer to this equation simply as Gresham’s Law. Even with near universal Propaganda against precious metals; the central planners STILL cannot repeal this law!!! When an individual trades paper and saves silver; it is a MARKET reflection of value. I believe the market is working in the manner you ascribe; even while the central planners are trying to break natural market psychology. 
    Most folks in the west are three generations removed from economic reality as a direct result of the spoils of WWII. The US dollar world reserve currency paradigm upon which the present American Empire is built is ending. While it may or may not hold the same shock value as a Sandy Hook for those with attention span weaned of the MSM; many more people are going to die as a direct result of deferring their economic safety to the state via these banker crafted ‘money free’ zones. The believers in fiat will come to realize they were 100% NON diversified via holding USDs when the bankers pop the present ‘safety bubble’ monetary paradigm!
    Three billion people around the world live this reality every day, and have little purchasing power, arguably in part a reflection of the imbalances and expropriation created by western monetary engineering. Yet they still place a majority of their savings into physical money and physical assets. They know well the power a paper currency can extract from their lives. The west is about to relearn this old wisdom.
    SRSrocco quantifying the energy component of value is further recognition of the disconnect a dilluded populace can assimilate as the seduction of a ‘flexible’ currency has proven powerful enchantment yet again. Charles MacKay’s “Extraordinary popular dillusions and the madness of crowds”; written in 1845; both recalls and fortells that human nature does not change; and economic law cannot be repealed.

    • SilverSeeker, I am not disputing the fact that the markets are not operating freely and efficiently. The Paper market for silver is a travesty and should be banned. Fiat currency is just stupid. And I don’t believe in Usury.
       
      What I am disputing is the coll-oration between energy prices and the price of silver. If you take into account that both energy and silver are priced in Fiat currency and that Fiat currency is easy to manipulate, then the relationship between silver and oil is also dependent on the presence of everything being measured and priced in Fiat which can also be manipulated. 
       
      If Silver or Gold did become currency, then I think that this magical relationship between silver and oil would not be set in stone. The Gold standard operated to keep currency exchange mechanisms fixed through the purchasing and selling of Gold Bullion to reflect the international price of your currency. Even in this relationship there was a triad relationship between silver, oil and the market price. The price of Gold changed in value when measured against your local currency. 
       
      And here lies the real question. If the Dollar truly was a reserve currency, then it would be set in stone. It would not move. It could be dependent on to keep its value. All other currencies would have to change around it, to keep the exchange of Dollars for oil fixed. But then again you got the supply and demand of oil being run by cartels such as OPEC, which are heavily influenced by the US to keep the Dollar exchange rate per Barrel as fixed as possible.
       
      The US needs to manipulate the Dollar price, so it has it hands in all markets, all wars and all dictatorships around the world. It removes those dictators which don’t comply and installs ones that do. All to keep the price of the Dollar Fixed, and act as a reserve currency.
       
      The graphs that you seek for evidence are priced using dollars. The relationship is NOT between silver and Oil, its the relationship between dollars, oil and silver. Without the Dollar this parity relationship between oil and silver would not exist.
       
      It is thus an emergent property not an actual one. An effect of using the Dollar.
       
      Oh and whoever said that wheat could be converted to oil? what???? that was the whole reason for future markets. Before they bastardised the mechanism, to protect farmers future earnings in times when crops failed.

      Keep stacking silver…and when the time is right…convert to Gold. :) 
       

  11. EVERYONE…  GREAT COMMENTS.
    WaitingForSilver… you don’t see the ENERGY = MONEY relationship, because it hasn’t been explained to you in a way you can understand it.  The ENERGY = MONEY theory is gaining ground through some of the financial minds such as Jim Rickards, Tainter and etc.
    The VALUE of things is derived from the ENERGY that goes into it.  If you took a clock and figured out the value of that clock all the way back to the mining of the metals and then figure all the ENERGY & LABOR that went into all the stages and all the forms all the way from top to bottom… ENERGY would be the overwhelming percentage… something like 95%+
    This is what people don’t see. 
    I plan on having a interview with the DOC at some point on this issue as well as others to clarify it and explain it better.
    ENERGY = MONEY for thousands of years.  Nothing has changed… not even the 40 year experiment in the FIAT DOLLAR.
     
     

    • Uh oh, Steve, That’s a detail (‘Energy=Money’) that places me beyond the fold. I’ll readily agree that energy is a surrogate accutrement to Labor … with Labor as the prime ‘worth’ underlying money, but not go so far as to eliminate the intervening conceptualization, skipping to ‘Energy=Money’.

      Now, I grant that since the early 1940s (maybe into the turn of the 20th century) oil has been secretly MADE the commodity substantiation for the banknote scheme … moreover, I suspect this was hatched in the Middle-East as a means to extend the very ancient control of East-West commerce, geographically enjoyed by ‘potentates’ of that region, but the most fundamental and enduring substantiation of money’s worth is LABOR … the productive potential of which is ‘merely’ augmented by the most economically applicable conversion of naturally pent-up energy as can be harnessed (fire, water flow, charcol, steam, coal, oil, nuclear, etc.).
       
      AND, this is why metallic money can’t be substituted with oil-claim (or any other sort of) banknotes. The average recovery of copper, silver and gold (unlike energy resources) are fairly constant over the millennia, in close proximity with global population growth, rendering the metals and their inter-relationship with Labor, most appropriate to the role of money … rather rationally juxtaposed AGAINST whatever energy source is necessarily put in vogue.
       
       

    • SRSRocco,
       
      I have read a little bit about economic theories of the concept of work, I also understand that work in a physical sense can be defined through physical equations.
       
      Oil could be regarded as potential work. Precious metals are not potential work. They are intrinsically valued lumps of matter. Silver was once rare,  until the Spanish stole all the silver from Mexico, flooded the European arena with the stuff and devalued it. 
       
      There has been much speculation to how much a days work is worth. For example, a shilling (5.65 grams of silver) was regarded a days pay once upon a time. But currency is not worth anything until you convert it to something else. This as you know is called price discovery, only at the point when money, in any shape or form is converted into something that you want is the real price discovered. Markets of any kind, from barter all the way up to the fudge that we have today have always worked off the same principals.

       
      http://pricedingold.com/crude-oil/
       
      This is a link to a guy who is doing some amazing work on pricing stuff in gold. A Barrel of oil priced in gold has fluctuated over the years,  Even during the Bretton Wood period. After the Bretton Wood period, the prices fluctuated a lot.
       
      For a currency/monetary system to work you need three parts, a universal unit of exchange, a product that has been bought and a product that has been sold. If you have no money then you exchange your work into currency.  
       
      For your case for Silver to Energy to work then you would have to somehow get the silver, for free and then get someone to exchange it directly into Oil/Energy.
       
      The current model of exchange:
       
       
       
      Work->Currency->Silver->Currency->Oil
       
       
       
      The system which you propose:
       
      Work->Silver->Oil.
       
      Doesn’t matter how you split it up into the various parts, you still have come to an agreement to how much silver is worth compared to how much Oil. If the supply of Oil is higher than the Silver, than this exchange under a fair system would value Silver higher than Oil. And Vice Versa
       

      As for the argument that everything is energy, now your delving into the areas of quantum physics that are as fuzzy as time itself. In Quantum Mechanics, everything is regarded as fluctuating energy points.

      A clock used to be expensive, why? because of its complexity and the fact that it took experts to make a clock. I can now buy a watch for less than £7.99, most of the cost of that watch comes from the brand!

      Would you regard a Banker to be worth less than a Coal Miner?
      What about a Doctors pay compared to a Professional Boxer?

      Energy does not form part of these equations. With regard to energy, I would put a fly weight boxer a heck of a lot more valuable than a Doctor, but a doctors worth is more than just energy used. Information is worth more than energy. Useless information is worthless.

       

    • “Oil today at 2 grams, is about the same as it was in the early 1950s; but if you measure the price in US dollars, you would get the impression that it is about 30 times more expensive today!”
       
      Interesting stuff, indeed.  As one of the members here who actually lived during the 1950s, I can verify that the price of oil has changed in real terms.  I had not done this for gold but have for silver.  In terms of silver, gasoline today is actually about 40% cheaper than it was 50 years ago in the early 1960s.
       

  12. ED_B, absolutely, this confirms that Silver does not equal energy. All it confirms is that the supply of oil is outstripping the supply of silver. To change the equation, all one has to do is put a stop to the oil pumps for a couple of weeks, and there you go, an artificial shortage of oil, where oil would be worth more than silver…maybe…at a stretch…a long stretch…:)
    Question though? If Silver when compared to the price of oil is more valuable, which one is the true reserve currency? Oil, Silver, Gold or the Dollar? 

    Doesn’t the fact that the price of oil as measured in Dollars which is linked to American GDP mean that the Dollar has been debased for a long time? America is getting weaker, exports are getting weaker, too dependent on imports from the East? This would be a prime indicator for Americans as a whole getting poorer.

    Silver and Gold are the only fingers that could call out the Dollar and call it a damn Liar. This is why the prices are being coerced. We all now about the gold standard and keep it close in our minds, so if you price gold to the dollar, the dollar looks as if its doing okay. Maybe we should be looking at oil to point the finger, but alas, yet again, all America has to do is call on its OPEC cronies and say “hey turn that tap on a bit more” and bingo, the Dollar looks great again.

  13. Dear SRSROCCO,
     
    I was planning to write an essay in response to this article, but I just don’t have the energy to pull it off, so I shall settle for a couple of easy points.
     
    Regarding your proposition:
    Quote:
    GOLD & SILVER = MONEY
    ENERGY = MONEY
    GOLD & SILVER = STORED TRADE-ABLE ENERGY
    Unquote.
     
    These three statements are in the approximate form of what is known as a SYLLOGISM. That is, two (or more) premises supporting a conclusion. This is also known as a form of deductive reasoning.
     
    A lower order definition of syllogism can be “a subtle or deceptive argument’.
     
    In fact, your example is not true to form. Whilst there are some 250+ valid forms of syllogism, and a relatively small number of invalid (logically unsound) ones, yours falls into neither category, because not only is the conclusion framed in terms not used in the premises, but premesis #2 is false.
     
    What are the premises, then?
     
    1. Gold & Silver = Money.
    There is surely no argument about this, as the statement stands the test of the historical record over more than 2,000 years.
     
    2. Energy = Money
    Now here we have the first problem. The statement is not proven. We could just as easily state that ‘Golf Balls = Money’ and have no concern about that being any more or less factual than ‘Energy = Money’. Who says energy = money? On what grounds, and with what proof?
     
    It is true that it takes energy to mine gold and silver, or to produce any tangible goods and services. Some goods require enormous amounts of energy to produce, and some take only very small amounts. Also the energy required to produce two similar products may be identical, despite the two products having massively differing perceived values. For example, to produce an insurance policy worth $1m takes exactly the same amount of effort or energy as one worth only $1,000.00. We could not therefore conclude that ‘Insurance Policies = Energy’. That would be a nonsense argument, just as ‘Energy = Money’ is a nonsence argument that is impossible to quantify.
     
    I could go on, but then this would become an essay. Suffice it to say, that silver and gold are stores of intangible wealth, because and ONLY because of their very nature (rarity, desirablility, divisibilty, fungibility, etc); these forms of wealth may be exchanged for tangible goods and services. Silver and gold are therefore rightly called money.
     
    Energy is required to produce things. It may be in the form of hydrocarbon or nuclear fuel sources, human effort, the solar/wind energy, and so on. But energy fails on every measure as money. We cannot go to the markets and purchase goods and services using energy as payment. We can’t carry it in our wallets or ‘store’ it in our credit/debit cards. It is not divisible or fungible. We cannot bank it.
     
    Energy is not money.

    It follows that the conclusion ‘Gold & Silver = Stored Tradeable Energy’ is not valid.

  14. in the old days in the oil industry we would drill a hole , say 2000 feet and go through the “zone” for maybe eight feet . today we drill down to the zone and then go horizontal for a mile following the zone . today we are re-doing old fields and they are producing many times what they ever produced at their high points of production . in effect we have only been scratching the surface . in fifty years time we still wont have begun to exploit all of the oilsands . it is to big to just get into production anytime soon .also the oil companies will be making bigger and newer discoveries underne\th some of the old fields in the future .
    whenever i hear about peak oil i only think about greenies . peak oil is a green agenda . fear mongering . this intellectual approach of looking at the industry is BS. read Undue Influence by Ron Arnold . he traces the money paths from the elites to the green movement . the greenies are always talking about industry schills doing the work of “big oil” . thats crap . the elites are the ones who have engineered the green movement and have funded it with money and influence in government and media .  

    • @nonibaby
       
      I hear you. The ‘big oil’ meme is used by the ‘greenies’ as a scarecrow. Still, Steve is hardly a ‘greenie’ (if that was your allusion) and his larger point is something you’d inadvertantly substantiated yourself.
       
      The fact that it now takes more time, technology and equipment to extract oil represents cumulative (and more costly) labor to accomplish. Steve’s point is that that increased cost is being too presumptuously overlooked by mine-stock investors and operators, thus failing to reach ‘pricing’ models for the metals.

  15. @patfields
    he walks and talks like a greenie and thats good enough for me to call him one .as for rising energy costs , mine operaters have nothing to do with rising energy . it is not a thing that can be changed so instead it is something to be dealt with and thats the end of the story for them . they deal with reality . thats all they can do . i donnt understand it when Srs rocco writes this stuf . what is his solution ? what is his point? yes there is rising energy cost. so what ?
    when he writes such a onesided letter to prove a point i just dont like the logic used . why did he not say the if the banksters were not shorting PMs then the prices might be much higher making the cost of mining PMs a much smaller thing .
    i understand that the easy stuf has for the most part been taken but again …so what ? thats life . that does mean the costs will change and as we know change is normal . his writing sounds green to me  

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