rocketBoth gold and silver are so cheap relative to historical norms and historical valuations that it doesn’t matter if it’s overbought, it can stay overbought on a short term basis for a long timelonger than we can POSSIBLY expect…


Kraken SDBullion

Submitted by PM Fund Manager Dave Kranzler:

Below is a highly engaging interview with James Turk in which he discusses the key indicators to watch in order to anticipate the next big leg of the precious metals bull market. “To me the real bull market in gold began in 1913 with the creation of the Federal Reserve.”

By law the U.S. Mint is supposed to produce enough silver eagles to meet demand. Originally the law stated that the silver used in U.S. minted coins had come from U.S. mines.  The U.S. produces roughly 40 million ounces of silver per year.  About five years ago the demand for silver eagles began to outstrip the amount of silver sourced from U.S. mines that could be made available for silver eagle production.  The law was amended to enable the mint to use silver imported from Mexico.

From time to time since the summer of 2008, the U.S. mint has had to halt its silver eagle sales because of a shortage of silver.  This occurred once again in the middle of 2015 and the production halt lasted about 3-4 weeks.  Since that time, the mint has limited the amount of silver eagles to one million coins per week.   In 2015 the mint sold 47 million silver eagles, an amount which was stunted by the production halt.  It is likely that the mint would be able to sell in excess of 60 million silver eagles in 2016 in the absence of production limits.

Make no mistake, curtailing production like this is nothing more than a form of price control.  If the demand for silver eagles outstrips the supply, then the price should rise. “Price” is the ultimate mechanism by which supply and demand is equalized.  That is a law of economics.   If the demand for silver eagles is greater than supply because the mint can’t secure enough silver to meet demand for its product, then let the price of silver rise to the point at which supply and demand equalize.   That’s how free markets are supposed to function.

They can force a market into a certain price level but that has to be met with metal if people are asking for metal to be delivered at those low prices and metal is getting scarce. – James Turk

The fact that the U.S. Government has had to impose production controls on the production of silver eagles is one of the many indicators which reflect the fact that the Government is losing control over the financial and economic system.

The relative price of gold and silver is a thermometer that measures the degree of systemic health at any given point in time.  Since gold and silver hit interim bull market highs in 2011, the western Governments and Central Banks have colluded to suppress the price of gold and silver.  This was imperative to their ability to continue the massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the ruling elite through the use of  Wall Street’s financial Ponzi schemes and the Fed’s ongoing debasement of fiat currency.

The Shadow of Truth hosted Bitgold’s and Goldmoney’s James Turk for a highly engaging discussion about the current move in the precious metals market.  Mr. Turk sees it as yet another signal to the markets that Governments are losing control:

Both gold and silver are so cheap relative to historical norms and historical valuations that it doesn’t matter if it’s overbought, it can stay overbought on a short term basis for a long time – longer than we can possibly expect. What’s important is not short term overbought or oversold indicators but what the trend is. And to me the trend is higher in both gold and silver. I’m measuring this by saying that gold is above all of its short term moving averages. – James Turk

Buy Silver Coins and rounds at SD Bullion

    • I’ve had problems with Bitgold.  We ended up pulling out of their service recently when we couldn’t do a redemption without alot of kicking and screaming.  Personally, I initially had issues with Soros’ connection to Roy Sebag (they are related from what I understand), but that wasn’t my major concern (both are dual citizens of Israel).  My wife goes, “See if we can redeem this”, that’s when our problems started with Bitgold.  To me, you can put plenty of money in, so it’s great there; but getting gold out is not as easy as it seems.  Others may have different experiences, that was ours.  Other than that, I like Turk and Sprott, just not the other characters running Bitgold.

    • Um yes, problems with redemptions… just like Tulving… start out as kicking and screaming and slow times and end up with a Corzine effect when the full ponzi breaks down. Never ever ever believe this crap. It is never different.

    • Folks we have an old saying 


      IF you dont hold it


      YOU dont OWN it


      I would not touch anything that soro’s is involved in no matter what. I have no problems checking on my sunken metals. Now those who let others hold them will pay the piper at some point.

      Just my .02 and YMMV

    • @kochevnik agreed yes, enjoy no

      @Da Yooper yeah, in general, always

      We only tried Bitgold as an option, but generally believe in physical period.  Only a tiny bit of our holdings went into Bitgold.  When we got to the point of ‘cashing out’ (which you can’t do until $450 at this point or even more), they literally told us they were ‘out of gold’ in that ‘size’.  To put this in perspective, they rejected our first attempts at redeeming in gold.  That really shocked me, so we pulled everything out  (and it costs you to do so.)  We did receive PM, but it was extremely difficult. The problem was their support is horrendous save for a few young women there, their ‘gold heart’ program doesn’t record 80% of the people you refer and they charge a ‘fee’ for every time you move your electronic gold.   (Did I mention they told us they were out of gold?)  Also, they use Brinks.   I was hesitant to post our experiences as Bitgold is infamous for trolling detractors (see Reddit), even ones that have true complaints.

      For me personally, I would tell people to run, don’t walk away from Bitgold.   If you have a Bitgold account, get your 10-40 grams and get out before you put more in their hands.

    • @silver bigfoot

      Sorry to hear bitgold is a bust. When I was trying to create I was relying on common gold coins but trying to link it to the bank processing system to make its use ubiquitous and accounts in milligrams of gold for small transactions.

      When I heard about Bitgold I thought, “well, he beat me to it but at least somebody created it”.

      Too bad. Any system involving gold still has to be based on trust and the return of the gold upon request. I would have thought James Turk would have understood that.

    • “… they literally told us they were ‘out of gold’ in that ‘size’.”


      Is that when one says, “So trade what you DO have for some in the size I need”?  Idiots.  This alone would steer me away from anything to do with such retarded business behavior.  Count me as being in the “If you don’t hold it, you don’t own it” camp.


  1. If the demand for Silver outstrips supply then the price should rise. That is a law of economics.  That’s what the article says.   A law is a rule enforced to govern.  I’m just nitpicking.  More Silver.

    • That IS a law of economics… in a free market.  In a manipulated / controlled market?  Who knows.


      More silver (and gold), indeed.  🙂


    • You sound like one of the US State Department people who come in to the forums and try to spread chaos. I mean to say silver is some kind of dead cat bounce… it is at historic lows. Anyone should be backing up the truck here and whether they get in at $13, $14, $15, $16 is completely irrelevant. It is your duty as a patriot to do so to wrest power from the banking cartel by saving in silver and not in JP MORGAN CHASE or YELLEN BUX.

  2. When BitGold became associated with GoldMoney I was concerned.   I telephoned GoldMoney and said that I was thinking of closing my account with them because of the uncertainty.   A day later I received a call from James Turk and we chatted on the phone for nearly an hour.   I have to say he struck me as genuine and a really nice guy.   Just recently I’ve started to extricate myself from BullionVault into Krugerrands as I now think the old mantra “it’s not yours unless you hold it in your hand” is becoming more relevant everyday.

    You can hold numbered Gold bars with GoldMoney so at the moment it’s not such a big concern but things might change.   I have to say that BitGold still doesn’t stack up for me cost wise.

    • Classic confidence con… how many such phone calls did Bernie Madoff make? Sounding so genuine and confident. How many customers did Hans Tulving call and assure their products were on the way? And Bullion Direct? And MF Global? And eGold? I mean seriously… why on Earth would you believe in a fairytale from a James Turk instead of one from a Janet Yellen or a Jack Lew? They all tell you that they will take care of you, everything is okay… the whole point is that you TRUST NO ONE in these times and you don’t leave your life in the hand of CHANCE and GAMBLES but you take measures to ensure that you are protected from the lies and the theivery which is being revealed daily. My God. There is nothing to be gained by trusting the calm words from silver tongues.

    • @SeanKelly

      Life must be really difficult for you.   You never give anyone the slightest trust.   I have spent my life making decisions on listening to people and judging whether I thought they were genuine or not.   To that end I have been very successful.   I have a lot of Gold to prove it.

    • My emails with GoldMoney left me speechless. I don’t know if things have changed since 2012, but I would never use them to hold any PM’s. Why? Read this,

      A representative of the GoldMoney Relationship Management Team wrote on 2012-Sep-07:

      Dear Mr xxxxxx,

      Thank you for taking the time to contact us to express your concerns.

      We presently hold bank accounts with The Royal Bank of Scotland International, HSBC, Lloyds TSB and Barclays Bank. Should concerns arise about one of these banks, we would therefore have the option to move funds between these accounts.

      The bank accounts where we hold customer funds are not intended for use as a long-term savings alternative. Rather, they are designed to give more flexibility in managing currency and precious metal balances in customers GoldMoney Holdings.

      Should you require any additional information, please contact me.

      Kind regards,

      Georgina Hallows
      Relationship Manager

      HSBC is at the heart of banking fraud, money laundering and corruption. Trust them? Good grief.

    • Good comments @GBS, although I have to politely disagree on the idea of allowing ANYONE to hold anything for me that is of real value.  When the SHTF, it will be human nature for those holding valuables to grab them for themselves and their families.  There won’t be anything stopping them and it is virtually assured that there won’t be any penalty or retribution imposed upon them.  So… why would they not help themselves to the wealth of others?  I’d like to think that they would not but I am not willing to bet my financial future and the lives of my family members on it.  Therefore, The Bank of Mother Earth is where I think that PM deposits should be made.

  3. The cabal still have a few tricks up there sleeves  like today vamp up the market then setback  a bit trying to break the stackers when price goes lower we should buy more but there are outside forces that may  change the cabal like the wars

    • As a trader I see a lot of nice micro-trades on the hourly scale for scalping, but not much else.  Personally I like more trend.  Scalpers traditionally lose over time but silver is so micro-manipulated that it could be lucrative


      And yes the outbreak of large-scale war, not just a lot of kamikaze flies being swatted, would overturn the sideways trend

  4. @Sean Kelly When it comes to us PM bugs

    It started with flying and buying  then whining and crying, then kicking and screaming

    When it gets to shooting and looting, I’m selling and yelling.  LOL



      Bro, when it gets to shooting and looting, I fully expect you to be gettin’ some… defending your hoard from the looters, if nothing else.  😀

  5. @Bay of Pigs   RBS  HSBC  Lloyds and Barclays banks holding my phyzz  I’d rather give 10 MS 13 gang bangers a collective wedgie then tell them  Chingas Tu Madre.    That would end better than leaving more than my sweaty underoos with that passel of jackwagon banksters.

    Maybe I give MS 13 the wedgie and blame HSBC top management for that crime

    Gangsta v banksta

    I’d pay a dollar to see that cage match.

    • The good thing about owning paper gold is its extreme convenience.  The bad thing about owning paper gold is that it doesn’t actually exist.  It’s a trade off…



    • a trade off?


      paper gold: “convenient” but doesn’t exist – a fake, fraud, ponzi, guaranteed to take your cash and be worthless in the end.

      a trade off is where you get some kind of benefit in return. “convenience” is not a benefit.

      REAL pm buyers do not talk about the “extreme convenience” of paper gold.

    • Bruh,  it was a joke?  Your sense of humor is also non existent :). Paper gold  ain’t worth the paper it’s not printed on.  Is that better?

  6. Bitgold is supposed to be a system whereby you can pay electronically with gold. The problem is that no one is going to pay with gold while they can pay with fiat.

    Gresham’s law makes the whole point of Bitgold pointless.

    A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.


  7. 1000Bagger, Yes that may be the case. But I agree with others that those BitGold, GoldMoney… they are all very very dangerous. I have some contacts with Bitgold and Netagio – they are just mice traps. Come in, but no escape.

    Also Sprott is same trap. Just marketing from mouths of their front mans. They spoke a lot how they deal in share certificates of mining shares for customers interested. That is not true.

    Lies all around. The only way is physical and hold it by yourself.

  8. Why would any of you get into Goldmoney or Bullionvault with the intention of using it to store metal that you expect to be easily handed to you?. Why? That is not the business model and they don’t pretend that it is. If you want this then just buy metal from a dealer in the first place. These set ups if they do what they say they do could be a model for how to have a banking system that stores assets in PMs and / or anything else. The crux of the matter is whether they own enough of the good delivery bars to cover their liabilities for gold / silver sold and whether they are trustworthy people. They claim they do and have audits to prove it. Furthermore, under the law of bailment, the metal is owned by the investors and not the company. It cannot be transferred to the company while we still live under some semblance of the rule of law. That said, I did ask BV  how they could apply bailment which is UK law to all other countries where they store metal and I didn’t get a very satisfactory answer so yes I agree there is some doubt there. I guess the argument is that they are a UK company. The metal is also insured against theft by whoever. To use these companies to store metal that you expect to actually have delivered to you is just dumb, even though they do both offer this service in a limited and fairly costly form. They are set up to pay you in fiat to a linked bank account from which you can go and buy small precious metal coins and bars in the hand should you wish to. The spreads between buy and sell prices are very narrow compared to buying small items from a dealer which is the exact point of the set up. In the UK vault stored silver, platinum and palladium  is also VAT free (20% rate) which increases the viability of holding these as assets here. Gold does not attract VAT in the UK or Europe anyway.  On buying these metals from a dealer instead to hold at home you will be paying the 20% VAT aswell as the premium. The metal is held in large good delivery bars which offers price benefits to buyers. It allows for quick trading of what is real bullion, not paper futures contracts, in any size you want, from a few grams to pay a bill to kilos. Isn’t this what the big fuss is about with Andrew Maguires new bullion exchange? I know you supposedly hold specific coins etc there but can you tell one gold coin from another at such distance? As far as I can see and I registered to look round, this is a very non user friendly platform that will only take USD, Euros and Australian dollars. I can’t see what it offers that isn’t being done better elsewhere. If you think metals prices have hit a temporary high and are going lower or a lot lower and you have positions in goldmoney and bullionvault then what could be easier than clicking your mouse and selling your positions for fiat. Wait for the drop and then go buy some coins at a dealer. You might even be able to get enough on selling your ounces on GM and BV to cover the much higher premium you will pay when you buy ounce coins from a dealer after enough of a price drop. However when you come to sell those coins you won’t have the convenience of picking the right moment price wise in quite the same way. These services are not the same as paper contracts on the ridiculous COMEX and they were never intended for holding small quantities of segregated bullion for transfer to customers. They fit somewhere in between. Holding fiat assets in a bank carries big risk too, bigger risks than this.  Holding some fiat in a non bank based aggregated holder of physical bullion is better in my view but is blindingly obviously not the same as holding 1 ounce coins at home. If the banking systen holds up in some form then so will these companies in terms of being able to send you fiat. BV is backed in part by a Rothschild through Augmentum Capital and while I don’t like that fact any fiat liabilities are pocket lint to that family. If the banking system fails and a new currency comes into existence the metal assets will presumably be exchangeable for that new currency then. I hold fiat too as do all of us, which is airy fairy non existent fluff of an idea kicking around inside some computer unless in cash form which as we know is also possibly under threat. GM and BV if they are being operated right at least hold some real assets and will send you fiat as the medium of exchange at the prevailing rate which you can convert into whatever you want including small PM coins and bars. The I don’t own if I don’t hold it argument will be up shit creak for US citizens if they outlaw gold in the US again but not in other jurisdictions because holders will have no legal way of liquidating their assets. I agree with those that say bitgold is a bit crap and I am concerned that they have purchased goldmoney. I will be selling some of my assets on both BV and GM over time and converting to coins while hopefully using the gyrations in price to ultimately leave me holding more metal in hand than I had in these services. However I will keep some assets in these services in overseas vaults too for the sake of diversity and quick and easy liquidation while the world is still turning. Buying PMs in the hand also carries risks from the risk of the dealer not delivering to the bars / coins being counterfeit to being able to prove ownership of individual items. A service / system that can authenticate bars and does not tie your allocated asset to one specific bar can have advantages here. If we reach a point where there are no banks, no trusted currency, all companies have collapsed, society has collapsed and there is no law then I don’t think the form in which I am holding my gold or silver is going to be my biggest concern. It’s going to be water, food and shelter in that order.  The fact is that the various ways in which one can hold fiat currency and precious metals all carry some risk, some advantages and some disadvantages and only physical in the hand metal is not the panacea it is often touted as being.

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