Play

PM Fund Manager Dave Kranzler Joins the Show to Break Down the Big Move in the Metals & Markets: 

  • “It Smells Like Desperation”: Is The Day of Reckoning Almost Here?
  • Kranzler Believes If You Don’t Have Gold, You Have A Problem…
  • Kranzler Warns If the Dollar Does This, “All Hell Could Break Loose in Markets!” 
  • The Fund Manager Reveals His Outlook: Don’t Expect to Find Gold and Silver Bargains in July! 

A Must Listen Metals & Markets Begins Now! 

 

Lowest Prices on Silver Bullion!
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It’s Not Just Bullion: “Smart Money is Throwing Money at the Miners”

US Mint Coin Sales slowed this week, with 505,000 Silver Eagle Coins sold, bringing May sales to 1,560,000, and year to date sales to 10,352,500.
The Mint however reported they have Sold Out of the Frederick Douglass 5 oz Silver ATB coin with one of the lowest mintages in the entire ATB series at just 20,000 coins.

US Gold Eagle sales remain subdued, with just 9,000 oz of American Gold Eagles sold to date in May, bringing 2017 totals to 181,000 oz.

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  1. It is clear that there are some VERY good reasons for owning both gold and silver.  But a great question at this point is, “How much metal do we need to protect ourselves?”.  Most people say that more is better than less but does that translate into ounces?

    Back in 2012, I went through a mathematical exercise where I made a number of estimations as to just what a person needed to stack in terms of silver.  This was a working hypothesis and not a proof, so assumptions were OK.  I started by counting up the number of people in my immediate family.  At that time, there were 7 of us.  I then used history and some “Kentucky windage” to determine that we would need 0.5 oz. of silver per day to purchase basic necessities, such as food, fuel, and meds. The next question was, “How long would we need to use our silver to purchase these items?”.  Here I just had to guess but in the knowledge that I could probably revise this later.  My guesstimate was that we would need our stack for at least 3 years.  This could easily be longer or shorter and there was no way to know for sure but I had to start somewhere.  All this boiled down to the following equation:

    7 persons x 0.5 oz/day/person x 365 days/year x 3 years  =  3832.5 oz.

    This seemed a HUGE amount of silver to someone who had just started stacking.  In spite of this, I pressed on.  Next came a contingency amount because some of my numbers were merely best guesses and not any sort of hard data.  To my original amount, I added a 15% contingency, making this the next result:

    3832.5 oz. x 1.15 contingency = 4407 ozs.

    That was the number I figured I would need.  In spite of this, I have added about 25% more silver when it was on sale or when something especially attractive came along and HAD to be bought.  lol

    In spite of this attempt to quantify how much silver would be good to own, I have NO idea whatever on how much gold to own and not even a good idea on how to estimate it.  I would love to hear from anyone else on what they think is a good amount and why they think this.  I do own some gold but it is a MUCH smaller amount than the silver I own.  I want to own more gold and have the dry powder to pay for it but don’t want to be buying it just to be buying it.  I’d like to have a plan that explains WHY I am buying it and how much should be bought.

     

     

    • @Ed_B

      I’m luckier than you in some ways,  I just convert all non-immediately required cash into PM’s (mostly gold) so I don’t have to have a plan, PM’s are my bank, my insurance and possibly offer some speculative benefit.  There is always the opportunity cost to consider but I don’t have the stomach to risk my savings in paper investments anyway.  I do trade paper gold certificates but only a couple of thou for fun and to test my price theories.

      This year I’ll need fiat to buy some land so I’ll just cash in some of my PM’s, at current prices I’ll just about break even taking into account real price inflation.  The point is even if I were to take a loss I’ve had insurance and peace of mind, I’ve had ownership and full control over my physical asset.  Initially my idea was to stack and hoard PM’s but with the very low PM transnational costs (premiums) in my part of the world I’ve developed a different approach.  If PM’s fall 30%-50% I’d lose access to cash flow but until then PM’s are how I’ll self bank.

    • Best discussion I’ve seen here in a long time:

      There is about 1 oz of gold above ground for each person in the world.  My approach is to convince new PM interested people to stack that ounce of gold plus the same value of silver in mostly small pieces.  At $17/oz silver and $1250/oz gold that is 73 oz of silver.  Gold is the savings account, silver will be the spending account.

      Estimates are there are about 27 billion ounces of silver available including now and future mining.  With 7.5 billion people that is about 4 oz. of silver per person so 73 oz described above is pretty rich.

      My hope is once they get started with those first oz. of PM they will keep going, but if they don’t, even those oz of PM will be quite valuable.

      Instead of trying to value PM in fiat terms, just think about how long it would take you to get an ounce of gold or silver if you headed out into the earth to get it.  I think an ounce can easily be a week of work.

      Similarly, a half chord of wood is a good days work for me cut to stove size.  Today I might trade that for $100 of fiat, but in SHTF valuation, about 6 hamburgers wouldn’t be too bad (plus 1/2 gallon of gas for the saw and truck.)

    • Thanks @4 oz.  Good video, BTW.  I started watching that thinking that I would watch it for 4-5 minutes and then ended up watching the entire 21+ minutes.  lol

      I was taken in by Brian’s honesty and clear view of why it is important to own silver.  I do have a couple of quibbles about his comments.  Most were spot on but, there’s always something that needs a bit of help.  His comments on saving money were OK.  I drink a mix of Folger’s decaff coffee and Folger’s regular coffee.  I call it “Half-Caff”.  I like it, it tastes good to me, and it doesn’t make my heart race like regular coffee can.  That’s kind of scary, actually.  But it is good that he is looking at ways to spend less, leaving more of his income for buying silver.

      His comments about his wife not seeing the need to buy silver were spot on.  Many of us have had or still have that same difficulty.  My wife also does not see the need to buy silver or gold… unless it is over-priced jewelry, of course.  Buying that is FINE with her.  lol  But we have a yours, mine, and ours approach to money and I choose to convert some of my fiat into gold and silver.  That makes it MY business and not hers. I have encouraged her to do the same but no sale so far.  I am sure that she is thinking that she can have HALF of my gold and silver if it is ever needed.  Yep, she’s right about that but what the hey?  Family comes first, even if they know they should prep but do not.  I cannot let them suffer if I can possibly prevent it.

      His historical ratio of silver to gold at 10:1 has occurred in the past but it was either a long time ago or a rare event.  It was much more common for this ratio to be between 15:1 and 20:1.  Still, if we had a 20:1 price for silver and gold @ $1260 an oz, that would result in a silver price of $63 an oz.  At 15:1 that would equal a silver price of $84 an oz.  While we very well might reach such prices, it’s also reasonable that gold prices would be rising too, so a gold price of, say, $3,000 an oz. and a 15:1 G/S ratio would result in a silver price of $200 an oz.  While all this is certainly possible, the real attraction of silver and gold is not that they will shoot up in price but that they will hold their purchasing power in the event of an economic collapse, US$ devaluation, US bond crisis, etc.  Those holding PMs as money will have a financial asset that isn’t prone to fiat manipulations, such as devaluations, collapses, or run-away inflation.  I can just see an economic collapse where things become priced two ways: a low price in silver and a HIGH price in fiat.  It might even get to the point where fiat is not accepted for some things, such as food and fuel.

      He also mentioned that ASEs are “backed by the US Gov”.  Actually, they are minted by the US Gov but gold and silver ARE backing.  They are not backed by the US Gov except in that they are produced by that entity and therefore are likely to contain the amount of metal, the type of metal, and the metal purity stated on them.  I know that generic rounds are cheaper than ASEs and the products of other national mints.  But the lowest cost is not all of my goal for holding silver and gold.  In the event of a substantial rise in gold and silver prices, there is likely to be a substantial capital gains tax due on the “profit” derived therefrom.  But ASEs and a few other national mint products sometimes have preferential tax treatment granted to them that eliminate any savings that come from purchasing generic silver rounds that do not receive such tax treatment.  Also, in barter situations, those who do not know a lot about PMs do know that coins minted by the US and Canadian mint are “good”, so are more likely to be accepted here in North America.  Same for French, British, and Austrian gold and silver coins in Europe.

      He mentions JM Bullion and SD Bullion, two very good on-line PM vendors.  But Provident Metals and APMEX are also quite good.  I have used all but JMB as my own suppliers of gold and silver and find all to be very good.  While SDB does charge a small amount for shipping, their prices very often make up for that, so the total cost of buying, say, 100 ASEs is often less for SDB than other vendors even after adding the $7-8 for SDB’s shipping charge.

      All in all, a very worthy video.  Thanks for posting that link.  🙂

       

       

    • @PhiPhi
       

      Sounds good to me… and I like your non-plan plan.  😀

       

      @ART005

       

      “Gold is the savings account, silver will be the spending account.”

      Sounds good to me.  Never thought of them like that but that could work.

       

      “Instead of trying to value PM in fiat terms, just think about how long it would take you to get an ounce of gold or silver if you headed out into the earth to get it.  I think an ounce can easily be a week of work.”

      I could do that but being retired doesn’t help with my estimate.  Fiat I have.  A job, not so much.  😉

      But… when I want gold or silver, I KNOW that I can get them by waving some fiat in front of the metals vendors.  This will work until it does not.  So far, so good.

       

      “plus 1/2 gallon of gas for the saw and truck”

      Your truck must be a gas sipper.  My 1996 Dodge 1500 would swill that down very quickly… might even burp afterwards to show its gratitude.  😉

      But that would keep my saw running for a while.

       

       

       

    • @JohnLGalt

       

      I never pay any attention to 0.999 vs. 0.9999.  First of all, I strongly suspect that BOTH coins are made from the very same quality of silver and that the “difference” between 3 9s and 4 9s is basically a rounding difference.  Second, BOTH Maples and ASEs contain exactly 1 Troy oz. of pure silver.  It’s weight AND purity that matter, not just purity… if there even is a purity difference and not some marketing gimmick at work here.

       

    • @JohnLGalt

       

      “… but can you please explain how adding 0000’s to a piece of colored paper makes it any more valuable?”

      It’s more valuable because we all agree that it’s more valuable.  Other than that, it has the same paper, ink, and printing cost, whether $1 or $100… about 4 cents.  Now, think of it this way… if someone told you that they had a scam whereby they could convert a nickel into $100, you’d think they were daft.  Yet, that is exactly what the central banksters have done.  They have created monopoly money and are using it to buy the world.  The real hell of it, of course, is that we ARE selling it to them.  Imagine our “surprise” when they have it all, we have paper, and then the paper isn’t good anymore.  That’s the game and most people don’t even know it.  🙁

       

    • Thanks for that Ed, I knew you could explain it better than me.

      The trouble is, as you know people are too busy earning a living and living their lives to find the time to study the subject, which is the theft of their life’s work THROUGH PIECES of PAPER. i.e.

       

    • @JohnLGalt

       

      “Thanks for that Ed, I knew you could explain it better than me.”

      Maybe differently than you, John, but not a bit better.  Your comment below proves this.  Well done!

       
      “The trouble is, as you know people are too busy earning a living and living their lives to find the time to study the subject, which is the theft of their life’s work THROUGH PIECES of PAPER. i.e.”
      Yes, it is all too easy to become completely wrapped up in our own lives, handling the many problems that come up in life, making a living, and doing all of the necessary things that we all have to do.  Still, we ignore the fiat paper game at our own financial peril.  The real hell of it is, John, that this “game” is both afoot AND in plain sight for anyone who cares to look at it.  I know that I can’t stop this game from happening but what I CAN do is prepare for its logical conclusion… the death of yet another fiat currency… by holding valuable assets outside the fragile banking system that are known to stand the test of time.
      As an investor, I know very well the value that is inherent in diversification of assets.  Many people grasp this concept, as it is little different from the old saying of, “Don’t put all of your eggs in one basket”.  In spite of this, however, very many people do not realize that they are going through life with ZERO currency diversification.  Every penny they have is either in US$ or in other assets that are denominated in US$.  Make that Aus$ for the great folks down in OZ or C$ for our friends to the north.  But whatever one’s local currency might be, it is wise beyond all argument to also have some real assets that are not dependent upon the fortunes of our currencies.  This is what gold and silver do for us.  Gold and silver are known by many as “hard money” for good reason.  Hard money is tough money and it withstands a great deal that can make fiat paper wilt, shrivel, and die… while they continue to be real money of solid and enduring value.  It does not take a lot of reading of history to show the real value of gold and silver during hard times.  They both shine whenever and wherever people are in need.
      As with many things in life, owning gold and / or silver IS a choice.  We don’t HAVE to own it and some on here recommend that we don’t.  If that’s their choice and they are prepared to live with the results of having made that choice, fine.  I have no problem with anyone doing what they truly believe is necessary for them, as long as what they are doing does not consist of harming others.  As with many of the choices we face, there WILL be consequences for making a bad choice… so, choose wisely.

  2. Let’s say Jack earns 4k a month.  Let’s also assume an ASE is worth $20.  A years wages would be 2400 ASE.  Jack should have at least 6 months wages set aside for his emergency fund, 1200 ASE.  If Jack retires at age 70 and lives to 85 he would need 36,000 ASE.  Since Jack has downsized and simplified his life he should be able to make it if inflation stays low.  Wonder where Jack is gonna vault all those monster boxes?

    • You guys are CRAZY and so off base. 4,000 ounces of silver? 36,000 ounces of silver?

      You guys are valuing silver in terms of FIAT! That is not the right way to be valuing silver or gold.

      A days wage for thousands of years up until about 100 years ago was about the silver content in a silver dime (or less).

      If you have 4,000 ounces of silver that will be multi generational type wealth.

      we have heard the reports on how 1 single ounce of silver will buy you 3-6 months of food on the black market in Venezuela.

      I mean…. How many people stack in America? 1% maybe? And out of that 1% how many you think have over 1k ounces? Maybe 1% of that 1%? I bet your avg stacker has no more than what? 200 ounces? 400 ounces?

      and you guys are talking about how you’ll need 36,000 ounces? That’s insane. I mean if you have 36,000 ounces more power to you. I would lick your balls to have 1/4th of that.

      but when  fiat collapses. If you have 500 ounces. You’ll be sitting pretty. You’ll  be able to have a Harem of hookers and cocaine nightly.

    • +1 @AZcats2 .  They are still stuck in the FRN paradigm – that you will be “trading back” for FRNs at today’s current silver price.  It will overshoot the 1/10 ozAg daily wage reversion because of S/D Fundamentals.  If the current ratio is 2 BozAg divided among 7B people (0.3 ozAg per capita), 100 years ago let’s say it was 10 BozAg among 1.8B people (5.5 ozAg pc).  That’s almost 20 times as much, pc!  A tenth ounce might be a week’s labor (or more).

      When I set my goals a couple years ago, my thinking was much like yours.  My Self-Directed Precious Metals IRA (vaulted off-site, by choice) has 1k ozAg (all 1 oz rds/coins), and 3 ozAu (1X1 oz, 4X.25 oz, and 10X.1 oz).  I met my goal.

      And yes, I know that if SHTF the odds of me getting my physical out of that vault are low to nil, I don’t want all eggs in one basket in the meantime.

      Cheers,

    • Well Azcat- I did the same thing as Ed and I came up with similar numbers and YES I do have 4000 oz of silver. And No- that is not a large portion of our net worth. Everyone is different but you best have 6-10% of net worth in PM’s to protect yourself if SHTF.

    • @AZcats2

      Well if you are looking at from the perspective of wanting to have enough PM to pay for your retirement or pass along to children or whatever the case, then you are left using the current market value as a guide for how much you might realistically need….How much would I get today if I liquidated my stack?

      We here seem to be anticipating some sequence of events where our PM gains much market value. Maybe loss of confidence in fiat, re-monetization of metals or something along those lines. If this does occur, then sure we might have way more in spending power than we had planned/stacked for, which would certainly be a good thing for us. We dont really know how and when this may all play out, though, so again we use today as a guide.

      But yea thousands of ounces of silver is a pretty nice stack and obviously tens of thousands is getting quite large as most people simply are not in a position to acquire that much, particularly if they mix any gold in. If we did get back anywhere near the apparent historic norms that you speak of, then a person wouldnt really need thousands of ounces to create a comfortable living, but the more the better so what the hell.

       

       

    • @AZcats2  MMan! so right you are!  I respect @Ed_B and didn’t want to say anything, but as I read further down with these estimations I’m saying to myself “You have it all wrong!”

      Now Ed with 4,000 oz of silver, in a post dollar environment will be a king sitting on a throne of silver!  Because like you pointed out AZcats; 1 oz of silver WAS equal to a days labor in the past!  That silver is gone now, and the silver to people ratio on this planet IS OFF THE HOOK@ 1/14!!!  Actually it has to be worse than that as I read yesterday the population on this planet is nearing 7.5 BILLION! (Them damn indians and chinese are getting down!)

      Yes, don’t get me started on Venezuela!  1 month of silver purchases 3 months of food there! Man, when I read that I knew what it was i’m sitting on! (and it sure as hell ain’t my thumb!) Because when you have OFFER and no BID –assets apparently get MIGHTY CHEAP!  (but what is cheap, when no one has any “money” to speak of?)  LAND/FOOD/CLOTHING/SERVICES all BID LOW – hell, I’ve been there myself WITHOUT a currency crisis!  several years ago I had a personal financial crisis, and found myself yard sale(ing) cherished assets at 1/2 of what they COST (not to mention their collectible value which in the right hands was 300% of what I paid) –And ASKING 50% STILL WITH NO TAKERS! (finally I pulled it from the sale and figured I’d have to find something to sell with a greater market base— A RIFLE)

      Anyhow- AZcats is right on the money, because the paper markets will be evaporated when the dollar goes Dodo, and REAL GLOBAL MONEY is practically Non-existant in common hands, and the MARKET IS PACED AT THE COMMON LEVEL, (most consumers) which means those who have money in a land where no one has money, will find THAT MONEY STRETCHING FAR!

    • @FleePunyHumans
       

      Nicely done in terms of estimating the number of ounces that could be required to make it through an extended period of economic misery.  I had not thought of it that way but it is, indeed, a good way to look at it.  Thanks for commenting.

      But we all know that we “Jacks” out here WILL spend every bit of fiat that we can when the SHTF so as to not have to spend our PMs until it is necessary to do so.  That should shave down the total amount needed.  Also, when (not if) the value of the US$ collapses, the relative value of PMs WILL shoot up to compensate for that.  An ASE, for example, is worth around $20 today because the US$ is relatively strong.  If the US$ were to weaken considerably, then we would be seeing higher prices for many things seen to be of value, including PMs.

      Agree that holding 72 monster boxes could be a logistical problem, though.  Maybe he could line the walls of his “safe room” with them as nuclear radiation shielding?  They would excel at that.  😉

       

      @
      AZcats2
       

      “You guys are CRAZY and so off base. 4,000 ounces of silver?”

      Really?  How would you protect the value of your wealth if it was 10x more than you currently have?  Converting a significant part of one’s wealth into hard currency IS the goal here, right?  Well, some of us can’t do that with a few hundred ounces of silver.  Several hundred ounces of gold could do it, though.  heh heh

       

      “You guys are valuing silver in terms of FIAT! That is not the right way to be valuing silver or gold.”

      We know that.  But since we all buy silver and gold WITH fiat, it is easy to see where that current equivalence comes from.  We are buying PMs because we have a lot more faith in gold and silver than we do in printed paper.

       
      “A days wage for thousands of years up until about 100 years ago was about the silver content in a silver dime (or less).”
      Yes, it was about 1/10th of an oz. of silver per day for laborers but higher for artisans and other skilled workers.  But this valuation is not guaranteed going forward.  It might be that OR it might be higher.  Not wanting to chance it being 5-10x higher and not having enough, isn’t it better to err on the high side rather than on the low side?

      “If you have 4,000 ounces of silver that will be multi generational type wealth.”
      Perhaps.  On the other hand, some of us want the flexibility of having more than enough to survive.  We want to prosper!  🙂

      “we have heard the reports on how 1 single ounce of silver will buy you 3-6 months of food on the black market in Venezuela.”
      Yes, most of us have read that in various places.  But what we do not know is whether or not these reports are accurate.  Look at an oz. of silver as a US $20 bill.  Is it reasonable that one could get 3-6 months worth of food for $20?  At the going rate today, that is the equivalency.  That does not seem credible to me.

      “I mean…. How many people stack in America? 1% maybe? And out of that 1% how many you think have over 1k ounces? Maybe 1% of that 1%? I bet your avg stacker has no more than what? 200 ounces? 400 ounces?”
      Good point, for sure, and I concede this one.  The amounts of gold and silver out there in the US are not large as far as most individuals go.  My guess is that a few thousand people have most of the PMs in the US.  But then, a few people also have most of the money in the US.  If those who whine today about the disparity in wealth from the top 1% downwards could imagine what this will look like when the SHTF and only a few thousand people out of the 320 million here in the US have almost all of the silver, it WILL completely blow their minds.  I dunno… maybe those of us who have the foresight AND the financial resources to own 5,000 or more ounces of silver WILL be the new billionaires?  I can live with that.  😉

      “but when  fiat collapses. If you have 500 ounces. You’ll be sitting pretty.”

      Perhaps we will.  But I am not counting on that and neither am I going to let most of my wealth go unprotected from possible economic / financial collapse.

       

      “You’ll  be able to have a Harem of hookers and cocaine nightly.”

      lol… I can see where such things might appeal to those who are much younger than some of us on here but in my case, it would be a large piece of productive land that grows fruits, nuts, vegetables, cattle, sheep, and chickens… with good water and enough peons to work it for me.  They will be well treated if they are productive and fired if they are not.  I will pay them good wages in return for good work.  Part of that payment will be in terms of food for them and their family.  No one who works for me will go hungry, even though that could be “normal” during hard times.

       

    • @Shamus001

       

      “MMan! so right you are!  I respect @Ed_B and didn’t want to say anything, but as I read further down with these estimations I’m saying to myself “You have it all wrong!””

      BUT… you have to admit that I “have it all wrong” in a good way!  😀

      Never hesitate to speak your mind, Shamus.  The regulars on here know you and respect your opinion.  If that differs from ours, so be it.  That just gives us something else to think about and maybe come to a new conclusion.

      But… in my own defense, I am using gold and silver to shelter some of my wealth from US$ devaluation, inflation, and who knows what all else kinds of economic collapse.  Seen in that way, protecting 15-20% of one’s wealth with gold and silver seems like a no-brainer to me.  My hope is that rising PM prices will negate falling paper wealth values and I will come out OK either way.  This is how I am hedging what I have in order to avoid substantial losses.  I can stand lost opportunity costs a lot better than I can stand the loss of wealth caused by failing to hedge against the more obvious possibilities that may well be coming down the road.

      Cheers!  😀

       

  3. @ Ed-B

    The great thing about your reasoning is not so much the amount but the fact that very few people even think of trying to protect their wealth.   Most people I have met rely on the fact that they own a house and have paid off the loan and think the house is their wealth.   They also have a small ‘rainy day’ savings account.   Both are subject to confiscation by tax and theft by the government.    I know of only one other person that is into PMs.   The beauty of PMs is their “invisibility” and “reliability”.

    The amount is down to you life style.   My wife and I have very good pensions so the amount of Gold I have is  an insurance calculation to cover the loss of those pensions at the present value of Gold.   Obviously if our pensions collapsed then the Gold would be rocketing upwards and my life style would improve dramatically.

    This next bit might sound a bit pretentious but is never the less true.   Once you reach a stage in life where you have no debts.   A reasonable house, car, holidays etc.   The money that lands in your bank account can be used to buy a bigger house or bigger car but do you really need it?    So when I see I have an amount in my bank account I spend it on Gold.   I have the fun of spending my money but at the same time keeping it.    Does that make sense?

    ps.  When I go on holiday I always take a Krugerrand or 4 Sovereigns as ’emergency’ funds.   They are easily put in a wallet with other coins.   Silver would be too cumbersome so I prefer Gold.

    • @GBS

       

      “The great thing about your reasoning is not so much the amount but the fact that very few people even think of trying to protect their wealth.   Most people I have met rely on the fact that they own a house and have paid off the loan and think the house is their wealth.   They also have a small ‘rainy day’ savings account.   Both are subject to confiscation by tax and theft by the government.    I know of only one other person that is into PMs.   The beauty of PMs is their “invisibility” and “reliability”.”

      Agree completely.  Most of these folks are thinking inside the box of their experience.  I, like most others on here, am trying to get outside that box, connect the dots, and see what the future might look like.  I do not see a great future out there for most people, simply because of the HUGE amount of debt that exists in our world today.  Like you, I am debt-free but no man is an island.  I will be affected by others in my community, state, region, and country many of whom will suffer terribly in a financial collapse.

       
      “The amount is down to you life style.   My wife and I have very good pensions so the amount of Gold I have is  an insurance calculation to cover the loss of those pensions at the present value of Gold.   Obviously if our pensions collapsed then the Gold would be rocketing upwards and my life style would improve dramatically.”
      That is a realistic view, IMO.  My wife also has a very nice pension but both it and the Social Security payments we receive are subject to reduction, if not outright decimation, during a financial collapse.  Simply waiting for that to happen, all the while being in denial that it CAN happen, does not seem a proactive approach to me.  I can see the real value in protecting at least 20% of one’s wealth from these problems, if not more.  Currently, I am at about 16% of my wealth in gold and silver.  I want to bring this up to 20% via buying more gold.

      “This next bit might sound a bit pretentious but is never the less true.   Once you reach a stage in life where you have no debts.   A reasonable house, car, holidays etc.   The money that lands in your bank account can be used to buy a bigger house or bigger car but do you really need it?”
      IMO, the answer there is no.  In fact, we are looking closely at down-sizing to a smaller house with a few acres of land in the country rather than in our current suburban location.

      “So when I see I have an amount in my bank account I spend it on Gold.   I have the fun of spending my money but at the same time keeping it.    Does that make sense?”
      Yes, actually, that makes perfect sense to me.  I never think that I am “spending money” when I buy PMs.  I am merely converting soft fiat currency into the hard money of gold and silver.  It is easily converted back at need.

      “ps.  When I go on holiday I always take a Krugerrand or 4 Sovereigns as ’emergency’ funds.   They are easily put in a wallet with other coins.   Silver would be too cumbersome so I prefer Gold.”
      That’s understandable as well. Gold IS portable and concealable.  These are two of its better features, along with how concentrated in wealth it is.  I own a few dozen ounces of gold but would like to bring this up to  around 50 ounces.  I only have bought Canadian Gold Maples in the 1-oz. size due to their lower premium per oz. (as opposed to 1-oz. American Gold Eagles and fractional ounce sizes of both).

    • Sorry @AGXIIK  ,   I’m all out of slanging today. 

      We’ve just spent 2 days putting a Ham Radio mast up beside a shed.

      69 Y/old and up on the shed roof balancing a mast while a friend stands on a 3 step ladder doing up the bolts ??

      Someone has rocks in his head, and no I don’t have Pics or a Video Lol. _JLG. 

    • @JohnLGalt

       

      “A bombing in Manchester England. 20 dead & hundreds injured…”

       

      It is events such as this that make me pray that there IS a hell for the likes of these people animals.  They have earned it!  Not that I’m in charge of making that decision.  It’s WAY above my pay grade.  But if I was to get a vote, it would definitely be a HUGE “NO!” as to their fitness to live in heaven after that.

       

    • Interesting article.  Thanks for posting the link.  I agree with the article in large part because I don’t necessarily understand ALL of it.  lol   But what I do understand seems clear enough.

      Fiat currency writ large was invented around the time of World War I.  It was specifically invented so that: 1) countries could spend more “money” than they actually had, thus creating debt and the need to service it;  2) so that the banks could collect huge fees for guiding this financially incompetent conversion from REAL (gold and silver) money to fake (fiat currency printed out of thin air) money; and 3) to give birth to the hideously disastrous financial institutions now known as “central banks”… as if central planning applied to banking could possibly be ANY kind of improvement over the previous banking system.  It can’t.  It won’t.  It hasn’t been and it never will be.  It won’t be until these institutions either destroy themselves from within, via the collapse of the giant inflationary debt bubble that fake money creates, OR they are destroyed from without, via political means.  The former seems much more likely, IMO.

       

  4. @AZcats2,  Federal min wage is 7.25 an hour or 58 bucks for an 8 hr day.  May, 2017 an entry level worker earns the equivalent of almost 3 oz of silver per day where in the past they earned 1/10th oz.  Silver is not valued today as in the past.  Using today’s value those oz counts are approx correct.  Problem:  there is only .25 oz of silver per person above ground so what to do?  Bitcoin was $1978 as of this morning.  Sorry to say that Bitcoin is kicking the stuff out of the PMs right about now.

    • “Bitcoin was $1978 as of this morning.  Sorry to say that Bitcoin is kicking the stuff out of the PMs right about now.”

      This is happening for a few different reasons. It is clear that people are losing faith in fiat currency. Venezuela is an ongoing example of what real hyperinflation looks like. Japan recently opened up their own Bitcoin exchanges. As of Friday, 40% of the recent Bitcoin trading volume originated out of Japan. This speaks volumes (no pun intended). The Japanese are flooding into Bitcoin which makes perfect sense. Their government has terribly managed their economy and abused their currency for over 25 years now.

      Add to this fact that people have woken up to the rampant manipulation that plagues the gold and silver markets. It is quite clear that it isn’t a level playing field so why continue to participate in it? I wish all volume on the Comex would simply dry up. For the life of me I don’t see why traders continue to play in that corrupt casino. Take your money out and go home. The tables are clearly rigged and the dice are loaded. They aren’t even trying to hide it anymore folks!

      So yes, Bitcoin (and other cryptos like Ethereum) are eating PM’s lunch right now. It makes perfect sense to me. Since the crypto markets are not being manipulated it only makes sense for sound money advocates to get into that market instead.

      Unless and until the Comex folds up the games will continue. PM’s will not be allowed to have true price discovery. Bitcoin is not having that problem. I expect it to breach $2,000 well before Monday.

    • Great post @FleePunyHumans , and I agree with your estimate of above ground ozs.  😀

      It may not be in my lifetime, but Ag will indeed “shine” again as wealth/”money”.

      You replied while I was drafting my previous reply….

      Cheers,

    • Bitcoin @ $1,994 and rising. Up 340% over the past 12 months and 62% in the last month. We would be seeing similar gains in gold and silver if not for the shenanigans on the Crimex.

    •  

      Never been the ‘Sharpest Tool in the Shed,”  Still, I’d like to express some things I think I’m seeing and just plain don’t get…..
      For starters there is the monster rise in Bitcoin and Ethereum presently going on.
      Then thinking back on interest rates on CD’s…when 10 years ago returned $50 some dollars on a thousand bucks…..and today brings back like $4.89……
      But what has me really shaking my head was learning this week that at a local produce market in my area a person using an EBT card can get $7 of produce for every $5 in purchases….So, yep, the person with the EBT card in front of me can get say 7 asparagus, while I can get 5 for my $5 cash…that I ran my ass of earning the old fashioned way….. Am I nuts, or just a dumb sucker that continues to work?
      OR more to the point…..is it…do these types of things provide glaring evidence that the USD is JUST PLAIN WORTHLESS?
      Does BTC –at the moment valued at over $2025 just clearly show the USD is worthless?
      Do the ‘effing banks show us exactly what the value of the USD is…every day…and have for years??
      It it possible that free-be money in the form of an EBT card truly IS worth 40% more than the USD???

    • @4 oz Very strange story!  Everywhere I go, I get a “CASH” discount for medical services, or even GAS!  – especially gas!  3% discount which offsets the charges of the debit card reader that is passed to the vendor, who thereby passes it on to us the consumer.

      This had me thinking “bad money chases out good” why would people use their card if they have to pay 3% more for it, and the vendors are PUTTING IT OUT THERE FOR THE CONSUMER TO SEE, & SAVE MONEY BY USING CASH INSTEAD OF ELECTRONIC DEBIT!

      That grocery store discount?? You sure that wasn’t some SNAP discount for a food stamp card?  That wouldn’t surprise me, because the suppliers of SNAP cards are trying their damnedest to keep the peasant class placated.

  5. Who has the worst track record, Bo Polny or Dave Kranzler? When you look over their past pronouncements it looks like more or less a tie.  Not only has neither one  said anything worthwhile or useful in years, I have not been able to find ANY instance when what they said was going to happen actually panned out.

    If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result, its time to stop reading Kranzler for the mental health benefits alone.

    • Ponzi’s and tulips of 2017.  Asians are notorious gamblers.  Parabolic charts always end badly.

      Once the selling starts (for whatever the reason) it will turn into an avalanche of people trying to get out.  All the wailers and teeth gnashers will be pounding their heads into the pavement asking themselves why they did not sell at $2000.

    • NoGreen, absolutely well said. Zerohedge actually had an article describing the problem with BitCoin that others have said many times in the past, yet were utterly ignored by BitCoin cultists: that it will lose market share to alternative cryptocurrencies and eventually be a poor store of value. Awesome software, to be sure…but nothing that can’t be imitated. Of course, that didn’t stop comments from BC diehards arguing, in their own ways, that competitor-cryptos didn’t matter even though, in essence…they amount to the same thing: a ledger point-system. But they’re so obviously enamored with BC being the FIRST cryptocurrency (a claim I’m skeptical of, but oh well) that they can’t see the long-term threat to its store of value.

      Oh, and my favorite defense of BC by its shills: That there aren’t, and can never be, any derivatives of it. These guys obviously don’t understand how exchanges like the COMEX actually work. Most contacts issued are never settled for physical at all, so in essence those particular baseless contracts are little different from digital ledgers like crypto-currencies. The only differences being, of course, that they’re decentralized and audited between participants, thereby being fraud-free. Otherwise, they are essentially intangible. So yes…it is plenty possible for a intangible deriviative contract to be issued against equally-intangible BCs and other cryptos like it. Of course, chances are that there would be 1000s of other competing crptos before there are any derivative contracts issued against BC in particular…simply because it’s easier, and more profitable, to do so.

      Now to be sure, there are some level-headed buyers who, despite having already profitted, didn’t let their success ruin their judgement…but the impression I’m getting now is, just like you said, this is not a collective of well-discerning investors…but rather an example of Hot-Hand fallacy writ large by a lot of foolish and/or desperate buyers. It’s going to be really disastrous, particularly for the latecomers.

      Note to everyone: I really am a fan of crypto-currencies, okay? But I’m not delusional as to think that the laws of Supply and Demand don’t matter to them. The same goes to the PMs. Personally though, I see PMs eventually coming back into regular usage simply because there aren’t materials with superior qualities to them…and the total destruction of confidence that eventually follows every fiat paradigm.

    • Yawn, say what you want but in 2010 – 2011 I was considering to either go all in on the metals or split between Bitcoin and the metals.  I went “all in” on the metals and have been kicking myself ever since.  My investment has remained the same or even lost money.  Bitcoin on the other hand has gone up 100x…..f*(ck…  I listened to people like YOU and lost out big time.  Instead of having millions I have a box of metals that a coin dealer recently offered me 85% of spot.

      Silver is not near as liquid as they would have you believe unless you’re willing to take a hit.  Bitcoin on the other hand…you can sell and have dollars, euro or yuan in your hand for full price within minutes.

      I’m still locked hard into metals but diversifying.  Needless to say I no longer take advice nor listen to the people on Silver Doctors.  All they’ve done for the past 6 years is lead people to financial ruin.  Worst investing advice possible outside Moe Larry and Curly.

      Kranzler and company on this website couldn’t predict themselves out of a wet paper bag.  Just go back and read his stuff from 4, 5 and 6 years ago..incredible anyone still follows the bloke…

    • @Civchild“It’s going to be really disastrous, particularly for the latecomers.”

      The caveat here is that “late” for Bitcoin may be when it’s over $10,000. Not saying it is going there but it is obvious at least to me that people are piling into it right now because they don’t trust their government’s paper. They also realize that gold and silver are completely manipulated via paper derivatives. Therefore there is no real price discovery. Therefore the prices remain suppressed, under thumb of those pushing buttons at the Comex (Crimex).

      @PowerballYawn, say what you want but in 2010 – 2011 I was considering to either go all in on the metals or split between Bitcoin and the metals.”  

      I feel your pain. I passed on several opportunities to get into Bitcoin from 2011-2015. A couple of friends of mine went heavy into it during that same span of time. Needless to say they are laughing all the way to the bank while I am sitting on a stack of silver with a cost basis of around $24. I most certainly missed out on life changing gains had I not had tunnel vision with regard to PM’s.

      That is not to say I am unhappy to have discovered silver for asset diversity held outside of the banking system. But I certainly should have kept a more open mind with regard to Bitcoin and other crypto currencies. Just a small investment into that space would have yielded immense returns making my stack essentially “house money.” Definitely a missed opportunity.

      With that being; I think the Bitcoin train is gone but I don’t think it’s too late to get into Ethereum. By some accounts it has a much more promising future than Bitcoin. Right now it is the silver to Bitcoin’s gold but I see that gap narrowing as the years go by.

      http://www.coindesk.com/spiritual-experience-hot-wild-ethereum-summit-sign-times/

    • PowerBall, Gogetter, did you guys fully read my post? There are alternative cryptocurrencies out there already that are far cheaper that BC! One of them just made a ridiculous ROI in a matter of a few DAYS…and is now a measley $0.01 per “coin”. I’m not going to tell you what that crypto is; suffice to say, you two can see for yourselves at the exchanges. If you still want to speculate, then don’t say I didn’t warn you.

      What saddens me the most is here we are, having a clearly manipulated market for PMs on the downside…and a clearly manipulated market for cryptos on the upside. How, you may ask? It’s in the marketing. Cryptos are great SERVICES that take away control from the banks for merchants and customers alike (at least in theory)…but they still require middle-men to act as FIAT-BASED-exchanges because of the difference of legal-tender status between digital fiat and digital ledgers. To be sure, there are users who trade coins between themselves…however, it all inevitably flows into and out of these exchanges at some point because of the legal-tender status that fiat enjoys (many people who talk about legal-tender status don’t understand this; it’s not about what tender is allowed to trade; it’s about what the judge interprets to be tender in debt disputes. Very important.) Mind you, there is nothing wrong in making a profit…but the exchanges aren’t idiots. It’s a relatively risk-adverse position to be in when you can market crypto-nothings so that you can get legal-tender-nothings. (Hell, for this reason, no government is going to ban crypto-currencies since it would be much easier to just nationalize exchanges and get free revenue.) The same goes to their inventors.

      And yet, on the other hand, crypto-inventors (along with fellow exchanges) often market their “coin” as being the “future of trade” here in the present…totally independent from governments and their central banks. Well, if they are truly independent…then why the heck do we need FIAT-BASED-exchanges then? Why is it that at some point of the data-flow…there is a FIAT-BASED-exchange at all? If the cryptos have inherently more INTEGRITY than fiat…then this wouldn’t be necessary, and merchants and customers alike would be totally happy trading in a purely-crypto environment. The actual truth, of course, is that they’re not. There are very few, if any, purely-crypto markets. At some point, they must cash out for fiat or perhaps even PMs because of the aforementioned issues. Of course, the marketers of cryptos never talk about this.

      All in all though, there wouldn’t be any need for middle-men if the currency in question had non-monetary value (for example, PMs; they are used in industry and have tons of awesome uses apart from being money; that is how they became money in the first place, by being so marketable due to physial advantages) or legal-tender status as is the case with fiat (say what you will, but you can’t create digital fiat without access to a central bank computer). Cryptos are utterly useless by themselves, are vulnerable to crypto-competitors and, as a result, will always require exchanges that have connections to more marketable and stable currencies (or monies as is the case with PMs). As an exchange SERVICE, they are a fantastic idea…but the “coins”…they’re just marketing-gimmicks at best. But if you ask me, I would say that the real money is becoming a crypto-exchange yourself. What a hell of a business, right?

      Anyhoo…what do I know, right? I mean, I could have gotten into beanie-babies…POGS, and a number of other manias…but I didn’t. I could had won out big…but lost out big too. Oh well.

    • “Parabolic charts always end badly.”

      That they do.  Or as I sometimes put it, “Things that go up like rockets usually come down the same way… and almost always with a big BOOM and fireball at the end of the ride”.

      That the crapto-currencies are rising in US$ price does not surprise me.  That people see the rapid price rise of this Ponzi scheme as “proof” that it is something to jump into does.  Oh, well.  To each their own.  Insert old cliche about owning vs. holding here.  lol

       

  6. Sigh…

    Men create currencies…And currencies does not produce or protect wealth.

    Money is a tool.  And so are those who whore the invaluable gift of their time seeking to accumulate it.

  7. So, what should we Investors do with our Money?

    Buying a lot of physikal Silver. (deposit it outside the Banking-System).

    Find the best Gold/Silver shares in the world….and buy them.

    Which are in my opinion the best Mining-Stocks…with a huge leverage on the rise of Silver/Gold?

    Undervalued in comparson to other Gold/Silver Mining Companys?

     

    1. Blackham Resources: 80 Mio Market Cap, 6.4 Mio oz Gold-Resources, +200.000 oz Produktion in 2020.

    2. Levon Resources: 35 Mio Market Cap, 500 Mio oz Silver-Depot, 1.2 Billion oz Silver equivalent.

    3. Americas Silver: Silver-Miner,Assets in USA/Canada/Mexico, undervalued in all metrics.

    DYOR…Rumpelofen

  8. Gold and silver remind me of the old saying—-

    Democracy is the worst form of government except for all of those others that have been tried from time to time

    Old pudgy himself, Churchhill, was reported to have said that

    Gold and silver are the worst form of currency except for all those others that have tried from time to time

    Why the worst when they are the best as well?

    Because when some demented bastard tries some other form of currency or government he thinks is the best thing since sliced bread we, the people, get the living crap kicked out of us during the process.

    Even if that form of government seems benign at first ( hundreds tried in the last 300 hundred years,) or currency that seems valuable at first (over 550 FIAT currencies tried in the last few hundred years), every one failed.

    I’m not certain if the American experiment will fail too but at this rate it looks like the sons of bitches in charge are hell bent to do so.  They’re buggering up the currency and fiscal systems 24/7 with $200 trillion in GAAP accounted debt. That alone will destroy the country

    Sometimes it makes me feel like some paramecium in a petri dish being subject to every damn fool scientific experience crafted by a bunch of retarded junior high school students who want to see if I’ll survive their experiments.

    Yes I, and we, will survive.   It’ll be painful, as usual, but we always survive.

    My concern is not so much who will survive but Cui Bono.  Those are the ones you have to watch out for and whether you own real estate, stocks, cryptos, gold and silver or some form of debt, TPTB do not have your best interests in mind.  Protecting yourself is the first order of business and anything with a counter party risk,  including cryptos, will make a person especially vulnerable.

     

     

  9. PM’s just happen to be the antidote to $USD inflationary pressures.

    Take for instance a simple tuna sandwich. I swore off after Fukushima any Pacific seafood as part of our household diet………….until now.

    I caved in and had my first tuna sandwich in years. Only thing is the inflationary all in costs nailed me.

    two tins tuna…………$2.30

    one Geiger counter………………$120.00

    all in expense $122.30

  10. There will be plenty of bargains in July based on cycles unless the Chinese train wipes out Comex in 10 days or less. The Ass Fed always messes with Dave and the CEO of majestic silver.

  11. No one barking up the BC train seems to remember it shooting up to 1200 and crashing back to 500 some years back?  I recall saying to myself “man I should have gotten into BC and could have made a mint!” — then it crashed, and I recall saying to myself “Man! Glad I didn’t buy BC, I KNEW it was a ponzi scheme”

    Wash, Rinse, Repeat… here we are again, and I’m sure as hell not getting in at 2000!  Regardless of todays price, my metals wealth is indicated in OZ.  Sure, today I can purchase more oz than in 2011, but we are where we are today, and I made my move, and still own PM’s… I’ve been doubling down throughout the years as it falls in price to average my investment cost because at the end of the day I OWN METAL.  Not someones fiat, or imaginary digital coins, but most of all…as with any savings, we people usually gain our wealth in increments and over time, it builds (just like savings or 401k)  I tell MY WIFE that this is my 401k.  When she talks about selling and spending it for an RV or some crap, I reply “Why would I liquidate my 401k?  And especially NOW when the market is down?” (because short of a market collapse into 0.00 anyone holding stocks would be out of their mind to sell them at a market drop, vs waiting for the market to recover, and with it, the value of your investments!

  12. Just get a cigar box full of PM’s to start with.  That is way better than nothing. You can throw it in your bugout bag if you need to get the hell out a dodge. I started by filling up a Crown Royal bag.  Same difference. How about this?   Enough to stuff your pockets?

  13. @K.Honaz   Here’s another way to look at it

    Man creates currencies. Currencies create wealth. Wealth created power. Power Creates dynasties. Dynasties create corruption. Corruption created currency failure.  Currency failure smashes man

  14. @Ed_B  More like the comment made by Jeff Goldbloom on the first Jurassic Park

    God creates dinosaurs, God  destroys dinosaurs, man creates dinosaurs, man destroys God,

    and Laura Dern Chimes in—

    Dinosaurs eat man, Woman inherits the earth

    kind of the same thing as creating currencies.  Everything’s gotta eat

    • Yep, everything eats something else, from smallest to largest… and then the cycle repeats in reverse with the smallest eating everything else.

      As to Laura Dern, she’s a hottie.  Hard to believe that anyone as ugly as her old man could produce something like that.  Makes me wonder what her mother looks like.

      Rosamund Pike is another very good looking actress.  Loved her character in Doom and also in Die Another Day.

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