Silver Update: Silver Fixed

silver fixedBrotherJohnF’s latest Silver Update:
Silver Fixed

 

 

10ozntr ban

Comments

  1. I am reposting this here.  This is no put down on Silver Doctor or his site.  This just puts things in perspective about the haircuts that folks have taken in Cyprus.  Lots of folks are taking haircuts including silver investors.
    Why doesn’t anyone talk about the haircut that us silver investors have taken?  Oh, thats not nice since we are on The Doc’s site.  I have taken a haircut.  A serious haircut since investing in silver in July of 2011.  Yes, its not the same as a banking haircut.  We seem to believe that investing in bank accounts are safe havens.  Well, here we are.  I invested in silver at 38 dollars per oz.  That is total amount per oz I invested in silver on July 18 of 2011.  We are now at 28 dollar silver and going lower by anyones count.  Now, this isn’t news but it should be here on the so called Silver Doctors website or the so called antidote to financial woes.  Now, I am not blaming this on the doc, but this is how it goes.  Be real silver investors.  Real haircuts are the reality today.  Lets see, I am down on my investment by what.  30%?  I am not complaining.  Just explaining.    This is what can happen to all investors.  I patiently wait for silver to change course.  I will get out if I get the chance and invest in gold.Now, I want to take a poll.  It has already sort of been taken.  Many of you reported 15% losses on the value of your silver.   We don’t want to upset Doc I know.  We don’t want the spooge to realize that the average silver investor has lost at least 12% to 15% if they sold their silver at todays prices.  It is what it is.  Look at it with common sense and calculate the cost per oz plus premium plus shipping etc minus what a serious dealer would pay you if you sold today.  Figure it out.  Don’t keep being positive about something that right now is not positive.  I believe there will be a turnaround but we do not know when this will happen.  Could be a year or more.  Could be next month.  I don’t like the security of this investment.  There fore I will lighten up if I am given the chance.Now, I know there are hard core silver investors in our circle.  I don’t mean to step on your belief system as I am on your side.  Just sayin.I live in the third world.  We don’t invest in things that hurt on purpose or that have the chance of hurting us with the freakin dream that over rules common sense.Drive on people and make your own decisions.Pollo 

    • You havent lost anything if you are still holding your metal. Examine your own motives and beliefs and go from there. Good luck and best wishes. 

    • Looks like you jumped into investing in Silver right after its high of $49 2-3 months later. It sucks I am sure. If you jumped in earlier it would have been easier.
      When I first discovered Gold and Silver as an investment Silver was about $10 back in 2006. I didn’t begin to invest in Silver until after the 2008 crisis. I was more focused on Gold honestly. Back then my trajectory for this crisis was 2010. I was too too early. I didnt take into account that the US government and the Fed were manipulating the markets. I was upset at myself for not jumping into Gold and Silver faster. All the bailouts that the US Government did was my second chance to prepare for the inevitable. It was a godsend even if it will make things much worse in the long run. Don’t cry about the price instead accumulate Gold, Silver, Food, Supplies and get yourself a gun.
      In 2006 Silver was $10. In 2007/08 it jumped to $20. Then during the crisis it fell back down to $10 and didn’t pass $20 again for 2 long years. Once it past that price point($20) it ballooned to $49. Then fell back to $27. Same thing is happening today. When Silver passes $50 that will represent Stage two in Silvers bull market. It will rise by at least a factor of 5. (That is where I got my price point of $250 Silver). Just like it did when it went from $10 to $49. Nothing has changed except for the year.
      When the shit hits the fan you will be glad that you did. At this point you know the score. You know what is coming. Why fight it? Prepare Yourself and your family. Eventually the price of Silver will go up. Reason we will see inflation. Remember Silver and Gold isn’t a get rich quick scheme! It is all about wealth preservation of your hard earned wealth. It doesn’t look like it now but it will be.
      My personal opinion for Silver is it will fall between $20-$25 Sometime this year. I posted this back in October 2012. We all know the Stock Market is inflated. We all know it has been trading sideways in relation to Gold for the last ten years. It cant go much higher and will fall back down. The economy is about due to slip into another recession (happens every 3-4 years)(Its the business cycle). When the Dow takes a massive blow to the down side it will naturally take Gold and Silver down with it because Hedge companies will need to Sell their assets in order to balance their portfolios. I have read the Dow could fall as far as 60%. That’s a Dow of 6000 points. I don’t believe it will fall that low. My estimate is more along the lines of a Dow between 10-11,000 points. This in my opinion will happen during the Debt Ceiling Negotiations. (Last time we had a Debt Ceiling Negotiation the Dow fell by 2000 points.) Which were pushed to May 2013. I believe this coming Fall the Dow and S&P will fall to 10,000 points. When this happens companies will begin to layoff even more employees which will raise the Debts of the US government. 2014-15 interest rates will be forced up because of a Bond Market crisis to save the dollar which will decimate the Real Estate market.
      So Real Estate, Bond, and the Stock Market will not look good to investors. When this happens Gold and Silver will reach new highs. My feeling is Silver will reach roughly $100 then fall by 50%. (I think it will fall because of the interest rate hike that will have to happen to save the dollar) Then it will begin to rise one last time to at least $200-250 (when everyone discovers the dollar cant be saved the way Volker did it back in the early 80′s). Or even as high as $500 but I wouldn’t hold my breath. I believe you should hold your Silver until $100-$150 then switch out to Gold.
      If you were in Silver to make $$$ you made a bad decision. Silver and Gold are hedges against inflation to preserve your purchasing power. If you wanted to make $$$ you should start a part time business. Conservatively Silver can go as high as $150 over a period of 7-8 more years. Why wait that long? If you start a business and create a product you could create a product today and sell it for 1000-2000% profit within a week. No wait. Simple Example: Bake a cake cost $1 in supplies and sell it for $10. That is a 1000% return on your investment. Now bake 1000… you spent $1000 you made $10,000.
      If the dollar is destroyed due to hyperinflation Gold and Silver is the only way to go IMO.

    • When you look into the past, you feel last three years like short instant.
      But when you look into the future, you feel next three years like a big eternity.
      Try to learn to look to the future just as you look into the past. After three years, you will be right.

      Silver begins to grow after the majority of people will lose faith and will sell their silver for a song.
      Do not let them deceive you.

    • Pollo – I jumped into silver less than a year ago.  I watched it run from 26 to 34, then back down.  I’ve always seen it as a long term hedge, a way to create financial security in upcoming difficult times. Now that we see so clearly that the PM market is heavily manipulated, this realization has deepened. I don’t think PM are going anywhere soon – it is the canary in the coal mine – TPTB will not let it run up.  It will only escalate when the system truly falters.  Even then there is the risk that they will take a fuller command, with some version of PM price controls, taxation, etc., etc. Perhaps the only recourse for cashing in silver will be the black market.
      However, in some future time it will be recognized as money and it will play a strong part in you and your children’s well-being.  So, hang in there.  Don’t invest more in PM than you’re willing to squirrel away for many years. IMO, this will take a long time to unwind…
       
       
      I’ve backed off further from the emotional rollercoaster.

    • Just keep flippin. Buy low, Sell high. simple.. Not a bad time to let loose some of your stack onto the world. Never try to sell this stuff back to the dealer you bought it from, take it to ebay, yes those numbers on the side there go up and down in ever dramatic fashion, but check out the real world. Silver sells for top dollar, in all kinds of weather.
       
       
      If your not comfortable with your buy in, then nothing stopping selling, you won’t loose a thing. Trust me. I been buying and flipping all the time. Making about 5% on ebay. The Goal? Own some metal from profiteering.  Just remember the golden rule. Buy low, sell high, sell frequent.

    • We are all free to hold any wealth that we have in any medium we choose.  In the US, that can be dollars, PMs, land, stocks, bonds, commodities, etc.  The dollar prices of all of these are free floating and will move up and down much of the time.  Personally, I LOVE the fact that PMs are not shooting to the moon in price because I am still acquiring it and the lower the price, the more I can stack.  :-)
       
      As many of you know, I am an investor and make money in the stock market.  My stack is not an investment that I expect to rise greatly in price any time soon.  It is more of a financial insurance policy.  Like other insurance policies, I do not dig them out of the drawer they are in so I can count up my “winnings”.  It is there in case of need.  
       
      PMs are a long term holding and not anything that most people should bounce into and out of all the time.  Some do that, of course, and some of them even make money doing it.  God bless ‘em and more power to ‘em, if that is what they want.  But that path often leads to disappointment and disaffection when the expected (demanded?) result is not achieved quickly.  This is unfortunate because patience is a virtue among investors.  Earning money by investing almost always requires patience, although money can always be lost quickly.
       
      Once again unto the stack… there we find that the number of ounces does not jump around as do the daily price fixings, as stated in your local fiat currency.  Those can be ignored by many who seek ounces and the steady growth of those ounces.  As long as you are in PMs for the long term and have put money to work there that you will not be needing for at least 3-5 years, you will most likely be fine.  Many investors believe the very same of the stock market, so while the medium is different, the approach of the successful investor will be quite similar.
       
      One final comment… perfect timing is a very rare event in investing.  It does happen but then so do lottery winnings.  For the most part, investors almost never buy at market bottoms or sell at market tops.  The good news, is that this is not necessary to be successful.  A famous investor once said, “You can have the first and last 20% of bull markets.  I’ll take the 60% from the middle”.  

  2. @ Pollo: Not all who purchase silver (or gold) view it as an investment, as you clearly do judging from your comments. In fact, you are looking at silver strictly in terms of how it has fared in the SHORT TERM, and in terms of its DOLLAR VALUE to boot.
    Contrary to your dollarcentic view, others who purchase physical silver (or gold) view it not as an investment, but as their SAVINGS, something TANGIBLE that will award them financial security in the LONG TERM when the dollar is completely devalued and obsolete. Why else would others be crazy enough to stick with something whose value is so clearly manipulated and distorted by the powers-that-be if their only interest was short term fiat gain? Obviously, our motivations are quite different from yours.
    I’m afraid you’re in this game for all the wrong reasons, but that’s just my opinion. If you’re looking to make a quick fiat profit, stick with the stock market.

  3. Pollokeeper, totally understand where you are coming from. Folks who are investing in gold and silver right now are doing so on a long term basis. I know it can be discouraging and seems like the manipulation will never end. It will sooner than we might think. If you can hang in there. Please do. You will be richly rewarded. Regards, ZH.

  4. @Pollo and Snakebite:
     
    Your both right!  Remember why you started (Pollo) to accumulate silver.  Unfortunately, it was at a near high.  I started  a lot sooner than you, but my reason was simply that I “saw” what was happening in the world of finance, political, and geo-political worlds and came to the realization (after losing my retirement nest egg in 2001) that HARD ASSETS (PMs) are the place to be going forward for SECURITY REASONS.  That’s financial security, and all the rest.
    Don’t be too down on this current situation, Pollo.  Its gonna get WORSE…a lot WORSE.  What you will have is SECURITY knowing that you have silver that WILL get you through the tough times looming ahead.  Hang in there and get what you can when you can (physical).  As for getting gold, the ONLY reason I would EVER consider swapping my silver for gold was because of PORTIBILITY. If I had to be mobile, then gold would be the way to go.  Otherwise, screw gold.  You will fair much better with silver than gold going forward.  Again, Pollo, hang in there.

    • Well said. And we must break free from the habit of checking that wretched chart every chance we get, other than to take advantage of a good buying opportunity.
      That’s enough to drive anyone to suicide were they to actually put any stock in it!

  5. Ahhh, they are starting to get to us.  One look at that bizarre, spastic, malfunctioning silver chart tells me all I need to know.
    When it breaks free, it will be a day you won’t want to miss.
    Silver ain’t called ‘the Devil’s metal’ for nothing, it gets all his attention.

  6. Forgive my ignorance, i would like to know how they would end this type of manipulation? How will it end? 

    • An EASY way to end it, without a negative force involved, is for JPMorgan to cover sufficiently their shorts, have their longs in place and then with a KEYSTROKE, all of a sudden, the price SKYROCKETS UP and then the race to $100 silver is on!  The other way, more arduous, would be for every swinging dick out there, whether he is a trader with major bucks, or us with disposable income buy PHYSICAL SILVER at any price and take it off the market.  That will FORCE the cartel to go long and push the silver price skyward.

    • @Richy25:  There are a number of scenarios that might come into play and I’m only listing a couple.  Perhaps the highest probability scenario:  An industrial user silver (or a handful of them) will find it critical to source physical silver from COMEX, adding enough pressure on that market that in the least, prices would have to move higher.  Right now, available physical silver is limited and it wouldn’t take much to move the market higher. 
       
      Another high probability scenario that increases in probability as time moves forward:  The powers that be execute a global revision to the US Dollar based trading system, replacing the dollar with a basket of currencies and commodities (could be a small number of basket components, acting like a partial backing by gold, etc.).  At the same time, a global coordinated devaluation of currencies of debtor nations would be executed, devaluing against the new basket.

      If neither of the above happens, and nothing else happens that acts as a market liberator, the passage of time and continued debasement of fiat will demand higher precious metals prices.  Over the long-run, the cartel acts to manage the rate of price appreciation.  They care about that more than any attempt to halt any and all appreciation because the latter goal is almost impossible to achieve.

       

    • “If neither of the above happens, and nothing else happens that acts as a market liberator, the passage of time and continued debasement of fiat will demand higher precious metals prices.”
       
      Indeed so, for if it does not, MANY people will trade their dying fiat for PMs.  If that does not force the issue, I do not know what will.

  7. @ Poll it is quite understandable about your dilemma. We have all suffered with the consistent manipulation of the metals markets. They have to keep the ponzi scheme going on and on. Just think about all the lives that have been lost to these criminal bankers who send all these kids out to wars! 
    Think about all the Mexican Drug Cartels that ship that dope across the borders of the United States and into other countries and yet their fiat currency is not worth what it is printed on. The dealers, the users, the families that these drugs destroyed all because of some agency (Federal Reserve), which is not Federal at all. 
    Look at all those lives lost in Mexico due to the accumulation of the United States Dollar? Just everyone take a thought about how much damage was done by these criminals..
    There was no U.S. Dollar there maybe not be a situation like this? Killing and fighting over a buck that is not worth wiping the crap coming out my okole (butt). 
    So although Poll you have lost currency you have retain the some value in your metals. Just remember the markets are rigged. The politician and judges are bought and paid for. You have to get your land, weapons (To protect yourselves only), food, move to a place outside of the populous & keep stacking!!! We shall see what happens in the next few weeks.  

  8. I appreciate all the nice comments.  I didn’t post what I did to be a whiner.  It is what it is.  I will continue to hold on.  I am still hopeful that silver will make a turn around.  The snakebite comment was a little idiotic though. Give me a break.  There are plenty of silver investors still around that invested in silver at 38 bucks per oz.  I can assure you that none of them is happy with silver performance.  I have to say this though. I would rather have jumped into silver at the wrong moment than to have started a Cypriot bank account.  I am still in the game.  But all the silver investors out there really do forget that silver is a very risky investment.  A serious risk.  

    • I look at my silver as a perpetual international insurance for me and my family.
      This is a cumulative savings form of insurance. I can at any time cancel this by silver insurance. But what’s the point?

      Each my silver investment, I regard like payment of my Insurance invoice, for next three years. If I canceled my contract of insurance right now, I be suffered a loss. But if I will wait for the end of the life of the policy, then I will be get back all my money and plus good profit.

  9. You all think this 28 dollar level is painful- if the paper trade fails to deliver the required tonnage some time, and that news gets out, what would happen?
    Yep, everyone dumps the paper at once, the price will crash through the floor.  Those of us without faith in silver’s fundamentals will run for the exits.  We will be making the biggest financial mistake of our lives if we do this.
    Not long after, the need for this metal will reassert itself, only now it will be a cash and carry market.
    Prices will be stable and much higher. 
    Here’s an example of what I mean-

    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l2632.R2.TR11.TRC1&_nkw=american+silver+eagle&_sacat=39482&_from=R40

    Look at these prices they are asking on ebay at the moment. This is the actual price of silver coins around here.
    That comex price is just a wet blanket they throw at our party.
    Be cool.
     

    • I agree Conax.  The paper silver will have to be flushed out of the market and this will crash the price for a time, before a proper phyzz market reasserts itself.  I think people need to be prepared for this, because it will hurt (but will be only a temporary psychological blow).

    • Something else to consider in all this is that when the paper silver market crashes, we will NOT be able to buy any physical metal at those ridiculous prices.  Anyone who has real silver will not be selling it at those prices.  So do not sweat it if the paper price crashes.  That crashed price will be even less real and meaningful than the current manipulated paper price.

  10. Silver to me is like guns, ammo, water and food.  It needs to be part of your storage items.  Everyone’s tolerance is different right now with the manipulation of the price of the metals.  I think it matters when you got in.  Long term buyers of the metals got in at a lower price.  Hell, I wouldn’t care if gold is at 1600 if I bought it at 250.  I would care if I got in at 1900.  Same with silver.  I started buying around the time Pollo did.  My attitude and tolerance level is very short with the manipulation.  The way I calm my nerves is by not looking at price.  Embrace the smash downs.  Laugh at it.  Understand why they are doing what they are doing.  Go buy more and keep stacking.  The metals are not for this system.  It’s for the horrible time direct ahead in the future.  I don’t even know how much I have.  I haven’t counted my inventory for months.  I just buy a little at a time and throw it in the box.  The manipulation is a verification that the system is busted.  They have lost all control and must rig all the markets.  It a sign that the collapse is close.  I just don’t see another asset class to put your money into to preserve your purchasing power.  I want to get into assets that have been manipulated lower not higher.   The one call that I messed up on was to buy 22LR ammo.  My god, have you seen the prices people are charging for a brick of 22′s?  Cheaper than Dirt is selling a brick (500 bullets) of 22LR for $149.95!  A year ago you could have bought a brick for 18 bucks.  I should have been buying that instead of gold and silver.  I could have quadrupled my stack by selling ammo right now. 

  11. The guns and ammo subject is interesting.  That is one investment that is totally subject to supply and demand.  You are right though, pm is a necessary part of prepping.  Thats why I haven’t sold my stash.

  12. Look at the amount of silver certificates they need to sell to keep silvers price down. When the system collapses and PMs finally break out each one of those certificates will represent a part of the price increase. But they are not the only reasons silver is so under valued. If The price wasn’t moving up of it’s own true value the banks (TPTB) would never have needed to sell the certificates to begin with! We have all seen the chart of the most manipulated and controled commodities, We chose silver partly because of that reason, right. WE KNOW it is the most under valued asset in history, it’s why we chose it. Patience, our day will come.

  13. I don’t know how to write this out as I’m not to good at explaining myself. Anyway I started stacking not for wealth but survival as I have a feeling in my soul that it’s going to get bad by what’s happening in the world and I have been doing this for just over a 3 and a half years now. I’m also not one that was good at saving my hard earned dollars as I have always lived from day to day in the past and I’ve never wanted for anything as I have a believe that I’ll be taken care of by a spirit greater than myself.
    But somehow this is all different and I’m being somewhat guided to stack a lot of necessary things for survival, (which is out of my norm) including my PM’s, food and lots of emergency items which I know I’ll need when the time comes.
    I also never think of being under water with my stack as I would have spent the Fiat on something else anyway which would lose value, my attention and enjoyment.
    I’m also not like a lot of people that they will take out their stack and grovel all  over it and count how many oz’s they have. ( I don’t know how much I have but it’s a few) That’s not important to me as much as having it. That’s the most important thing right now than not having any.
    I’m also a firm believer in God and it’s been said, God giveth and God taketh away. It’s All Material.
    I hope this helps. @polokeeper

  14. I too am very discouraged and check the charts all to often throughout the day. I have no choice but to hang on. This is a Bull that we are riding after all and the ground is very hard so I hold on with all of my might because I do not want the criminals to win and take my hard earned money. I would rather have my stacks than a pile of Federal Reserve Rags. Here is an ebay search I put together awhile back: 
    http://www.ebay.com/csc/Bullion-/39482/i.html?_nkw=silver%20oz%20%28%20%2Cswiss%2Cenglehard%2Cprospector%2Clibertad%2C%20matthey%2Cnorfed%2C%20argent%2C%20silvertowne%2Cnational%2Csunshine%29&rt=nc&LH_Complete=1&_fln=1&_sop=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m283 
    It actually shows the prices that people are currently paying for Non U.S. Silver Eagle ounces and quite often there is also a shipping charge added to the final selling price. These are just average private mint bullion bars and rounds and show the true price of silver since this is what people are paying for it in real time over the last few days up until the last few hours.

  15. POLL !  Get a Grip ,spitting venom luciferian style…the End is NEAR!

  16. The People will Rise up again! they always have ,were is our Gold?

  17. I bought some stock in Goldspring at around .008. That sucker went to .06. I sold. I was on the Yahoo MB, and really enjoyed reading up on the Comstock and the history of silver. One thing I came away with was greed. The greed of those who back up the truck for the cash they will make, the greed of the company management, and greed of the OTC Market Makers. Buy low and sell high. I remember as a boy in Indianapolis, a banker in the 1920′s built a fabulous mansion. He hung himself when the market crashed in 1929. You must have a voracious reading habit. You must have proficiency with a TI-83plus. You must know higher math. You must have these tools to avoid the end of the rope. We live in a free society. A library is in walking distance. With the internet, there is no excuse to be illiterate with your money.

  18. Well here is my take on Silver.
     
    It is money. I treat it the same way that you treat FX trading. Except I do it all in the real physical world. I am here to make short term profit, holding onto something I believe in, playing the musical chair game, making money as I go from chair to chair. Now, like the rest of you, I sleep, praying to the god of silver, for 2x, 3x, 4x increase on my investment. Might happen, who knows. But whilst that day isn’t coming any day soon, I will keep on flipping my silver, making 5% a sale and then re-investing the money back into the silver game. Silver is as lazy as Fiat if you just keep it sitting in your big old vault, you got to make it work for you.
     
    As I mentioned before, the rules of the game, Buy low, Sell High, Sell frequent.

  19. As for the London Fix, this has been going on since 1919. Long time, before computers and all that jazz. I like it. The Fix was part of the system when the World was still trying to hold onto the concept of the Gold Standard. Just for the record 1920 was probably the year that Britain became the second most powerful financial centre after America decided to join World War 1 late in the game after putting Europe in Debt. America was doing the Financial war game long time before China and the rest of the world. 
     
    Is the London Fix ridiculous, no, I think it isn’t. Don’t confuse this with the stupid idea of selling Gold and Silver without taking delivery. The Fix is all about taking delivery. Its used by the real Bullion Market not the paper market. When I put an order in for delivery I have to put it in before the Silver Fix, this is how the real Metal markets work. Once the order has been placed, the Fix is called, then I pay the Invoice for Delivery. Its a gamble, might go up, might go down, but one thing for certain, I will get my order and it will be delivered, not a share, but real physical stuff.
     
    If you want to talk about stupid, lets talk about Bretton Wood, Bretton Wood II, The Nixon Shock and Fractional Banking.
     
    If you really want to talk about stupid, what about buying silly little round discs made out of 999 silver with pretty pictures on them and paying a little man in a kiosk a premium on them based on the Paper market price, stamping the little picture on both sides and  pretending its a coin. 1 Oz coins are dumb. Wouldn’t be so bad if they were full on Numismatics, but please, Silver Bullion in Coin format. Its stupid.
     
    Man up, just go and get yourself in touch with a refiner, and take delivery of real Bullion, in big old ugly bars that have been poured by real men.

    Why keep money in a Bank? what’s the alternative, A Vault in your home, ripe for the picking by the masses?

    Come on better Journalism.

    The Fix price is set on the Demand and Supply. Its all about Physical Delivery.

    This is the REAL market.

    The Fix is not set by “Criminal Banksters” its set by the Bullion Trade. Please take a look at the members of the Bullion Market. This encompasses refiners as well as Banks.

    Ordinary Members list
    http://www.lbma.org.uk/pages/index.cfm?page_id=63&title=ordinary_members

    • How are 1 OZ rounds dumb?  It is much more difficult to sell big old nasty bars of silver on the street, or to a new investor, or someone who does not have much money to invest. 1 oz rounds are perfect for trade and are easily recognizable. I agree that owning big old nasty bars would be cool to have and are a good investment at spot. However good luck with your big nasty bars when SHTF.

    • Man, That’s right out of a comic book. How Many of them local London silver mines/refiners are there? Sounds like there are nearly as many them as there are LCS!

    • @CanadianStacker,
       
      1 Oz rounds are dumb because of the mark-up. You get some on manufacture, more added by retailer. You also loose out on scale. It costs more money to make a 1 oz round than a larger product such as a 100 gram bar or a 1 Kilo bar (In Europe, all measured in decimal, I prefer Troy, but what can you do)
       
      I agree that 1 oz coins are easier to pass on, but the mark-up makes it hard to make profit in the short term. Unless your buying in massive bulk which most of the mints only deal in. I tried getting a deal with the Royal Mint, they only offer discounts in purchases of £175,000 or more!
       
      I do Numismatics, I feel you got a chance of buying low and selling high on those, as long as you done your homework. Funny enough I am doing a great bit of trade at the moment on old 50 cent Canadian coins, 800 silver, not to be sniffed at, especially when most people in Europe don’t realise that Canada were doing Silver coinage right up until 1964, just like America. I prefer Canadian coins though, I like the size, very much like an old Florin.
       
      As far as junk silver is concerned, I only do 925 sterling junk, as it can be melted straight into bars ready for the Jewellery trade. 800 and 900 silver are hard to sell on for smelting. 500 silver is even worse!
       

    • @RocketsRedGlare
      Don”t be confused there son, LBMA has nothing to do with London per say, its just a place on the planet where the price is set. Most refiners in the LBMA are based in Europe and North America.
       
      As you can imagine, a lot of the Bullion trade is set up in Switzerland. But that’s more to do with national branding than actual operations.

    • @WaitingForSilver: The only one confused here is you. The LBMA is a bunch of corrupt bankers and always has been! BTW, if you can afford to run down the to corner refinery and pick up a 1000 ounce bar a couple times a week good for you. But, your not impressing anyone! Now go away kid, you bother me.

    • @RocketRedGlare
       
      Dude your the one trolling. As James Brown once said “Talking loud, but saying nothing”. If you don’t want a conversation, then I beg you please don’t respond to any of my posts. Your obviously not interested in healthy debate, only trolling.

    • @WaitingForSilver: WOW- from Wimp to SON to DUDE! I guess in some kind of twisted aristocratic logic that is upwards mobility for such a peasant as myself! Dude? I haven’t ridden a horse in 10 years. You’re not a man! I know that because I know you don’t smoke the same cigarettes as me! What brand of drill bits do you use anyway? I bet you’re the Chrome Molly type and buy them buy the ton? HUH

  20. Sell,  sell, go for the paper!  Sell daily, sell well! 
    Please sell, real men man up and sell!  Put the money in our bank, the low and scummy masses are coming for your bullions!
     
     Bwaahahaha

  21. You are right. Right now, we have an unprecedented suppression of the gold price. Why? Because they drive us like rams in paper assets. They closed for rams opportunity to go into gold and silver. They have put in the way of sheep economic barrier via “Low price”.
    Therefore, a rams can only go in fiat paper or the stock market paper. Only in the paper.

    What happened in Cyprus, there was not a spontaneous decision. It was a carefully planned operation by the IMF and the ECB. This operation is not over. For the success of this operation, it was necessary to suppress the price of gold and silver. Without such price suppression, the whole operation to slaughter rams for meat, not could be successful.
    If they had not put down in this period the price of gold and silver, most rams would go away in a safe place – in gold and silver.

    But in this case they can not be robbed. For this reason, the price of gold and silver should be very low right now.

  22. Lively debate ladies and gentlemen. A while back someone on this channel said ‘All Markets are always manipulated all the time. Evil men and Greshams Law go together like soup and sandwich. 
    My travels into silver began about 3 years ago when, a bit like Charlie, I got the sense that something was amiss in the markets.  No, I did not study up on the actions of the markets before then.  Trusting in Bush II, neocon that I was, I thought we were fighting the good fight.  Yes, that makes me an uninformed dumbass.  But after seeing the nature of the present administration, a variation of the prior presidential theme only more willing to admit what he had planned for us, it finally dawned on me that I was fighting a battle to protect what’s taken us 40 years to accumulate and LOSING.  Maybe not entirely in the stock market funny money casino that I’d played for 35 years but certainly enough to give me some large profits and losses. Latterly more losses than gains.
    Being the slow learner that I am, the relentless study of precious metals took 2 years before I did anything serious by way of investing in PMs.  But once I was confident of the validity of my actions, I began to accumulate with a vigor, going all in about a year ago.
    This was done knowing that precious metals, like all other markets, is a manipulated scheme almost as hard to fight as the stock market.  If one gets into bed with an elephant, silver or paper coated, it’s still an adjustment when Dumbo (the other dumbo) rolls over. 
    As a reference point, again I thank all who post here regularly because without all your voices, I would think I’d gone insane if it was just me trying to make sense of the world we live in today.  There would be no guideon, no point of land or hold fast  to anchor one’s thoughts and opinions too without the knowledge that my actions, like many of your actions, were sound.  Rather than any one of us going loopy, it’s the world we see and know that has lost its bearings.  We struggle to make sense of the welter of actions that have clearly spelled out the dangers and uncertainty we face today.
    As a person who was heavily invested career-wise in a profession now destroyed in Cyprus, I can also say to myself, “I told you so” . That  internal other voice that yammers, ‘you screwed up and now look where you are’ is the voice that looks at my stack and tells me not only am I an idiot for putting some much of our collective livelihood and savings into gold and silver, and we are about $5 lower than our buy price.  But price be damned. I know the markets for these things is rigged against the little guy, played by the large fish who care not an instant what happens to us. But we care and we are observant and watching their actions.  These actions cannot hold.  The damage to our financial world is cataclysmic and when this paradigm starts failing in the most serious manner, maybe a few months from now; maybe a year or two, we will be vindicated.  Maybe bruised by what could happen around us but when the SHTF, we’ll be glad we had the foresight to prepare ourselves.
    On another topic, the premiums charged for BU, and MS graded coins seems a little ridiculous.  It’s just an ounce of silver, shiny, shinier or shiniest, but still an ounce.  I have plenty of the BU and a few MS somethings but their intrinsic value is still spot plus a few bucks.   As for the 100 ounce ingots. Got some.  I like them, if for no other reason than they would be first rate weapons in hand to hand combat.  Duct taped to a club, look out. And with a few in a Tupperware, they make a great door stop. 
    So no matter how we stack, we stack and its for real and for keeps.  Cheers.

  23. I have registered just to reply to Pollo. I have to LIVE off my silver, I don’t have a job, my situation is such that I bought it as an investment to live on. I am almost wiped out, down hundreds of thousands of dollars. Yes, I know, I have lost nothing until I sell, but I have to sell some monthly and I am losing my ass. So some of you can make your glib comments, and of course that moronic ‘keep stackin’. I already stacked and I should have bought the SPDAnd screw silver and screw Jim Wllie ano the other analysts worshipped here.
     
    yes, hell yes I am angry. I deeply regret ever subscribing to Willie and I deeply regret buying silver. 

  24. PS  NY judge dismisses the case of LIBOR rigging against the major US Banks. Just hit the news wires.  Details will follow
    Ammo?  I checked with 11 stores including 4 WMT and they were as dry as the Gobi desert re popular calibers.  22 Long rifle is none existent.  If silver today what ammo has done over the last 5 months, this world would like quite different.  That would imply silver at about $120 an ounce.  What one store owner told me is that the major ammo manufacturers are holding back supply to assure themselves a shortage and higher prices.  In a joking way I’d say JPM is in the ammo business given the way these lead future markets are manipulated.  But then we know that All markets are always manipulated———

    • Modern Fundamental Analysis – this is not an analysis of key factors and main market forces.
      Modern fundamental analysis – this is an analysis of the key factors and main forces of market manipulation.

    • “What one store owner told me is that the major ammo manufacturers are holding back supply to assure themselves a shortage and higher prices.”
       
      Possible but if one of the bigger producers decides to grab market share, all this holding back BS will come to a screeching halt pronto.  None of them can afford to lose a big chunk of market share.  Heh heh… honor among thieves and price fixers only goes so far and then they start throwing each other under the bus.
       
      DuckVision mentioned CheaperThanDirt charging $150 for a 500 round box of .22 ammo that probably is not worth $30.  This is nothing less than price gouging and I hope that ALL of their customers treat them with the same respect once things normalize in the ammo world.  They always have in the past, anyway.

  25. Bank of America Corp., Citigroup Inc., Credit Suisse Group AG, Deutsche Bank AG, HSBC Holdings PLC, JPMorgan Chase & Co., Royal Bank of Canada, Royal Bank of Scotland and WestLB AG

    There they are. Some of the major PTB money centers.

    In my evolving opinion, the banks above now have a freehand to lower PM prices through manipulation then create an environment for a massive LBO’s in the mining sectors where the above will control a mighty percentage of planetary minerals and fossils. 

  26. Of course the market is manipulated, its called the asymmetrical information principal. You can’t cry about unfair play in a capitalist system. The whole system works off the unbalance between trade. You sell high and buy low, this is a lot easier if you can control one side of the market. I used to work in the gambling industry, this is all about asymmetric trade. You give your prices to the punters knowing the full picture, whilst your punter has a price that is set by the market on only one side of the trade. This is called arbitrage, the house will always win, because they have bet on the horse and against it, manipulating the odds so they will always win (in decimal odds, making sure that they got over 1.1 on both sides of the bet, covering the losses of the loosing bet).
     
    Shorting the market is a very expensive arbitrage. You really think that JPM care if the markets go up or down? They are in full control of the market information. They know that either way, they will make money out of the PM market. They buy and sell on a daily basis, using machines that work so fast that as I type this, about a million trades have been fired off. Is this wrong? heck no!, does it upset me, very!…but there is a fine line between buying and selling. Its all about the margins between the buy and the sell, that’s what makes you money.
     
    No matter how we see ourselves in the market, we are but punters, trying to break the bank, but we are doing it only sitting on BACK bets. That;s what you are doing when going all in on Physical. Nothing wrong with this. Makes sense considering the way the financial markets are going in the world. But, if you want to cover your bet, you need to LAY against the bet. Arbing, just like the big boys.
     
    Why do we think we will make money, in the short term or long? Why we think ourselves superior  to the “sheeple”, why is this? Because we know something, something we think will give us a competitive advantage. In some respect this could be argued to be an unfair competitive advantage. Surely we should be shouting out to people “Buy silver you stupid moron”. But how many of you do? Or do you secretly keep this information to yourself, smiling away, wringing your hands and chuckling away like a demented fool (okay, that’s just me! :) )
     
     I am betting on Silver going up, so I have bought physical. I sell my bet every now and again, because I need to make money. But I am going long (Long to me is over 10 years), but to make my money (Silver) work, I sell silver, to buy silver at a cheaper price, all physical. So far I am selling at around 5% profit per trade, so this means for every 100 grams of silver I buy, if I sell higher than when I bought it, I can make 105 grams of silver. Still all priced in silver.
     

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