goldAccording to reports from Russian media, Putin appears to have sent the west a golden message in the aftermath of JPMorgan unilaterally deciding to block an official Russian wire transfer, as the Central Bank of Russia has introduced a new logo, which just happens to be a gold ruble.

Officials stated on the new logo: Golden Badge of the Russian national currency, officially adopted by the Central Bank of Russia, will symbolize a sign of stability and security of the ruble gold reserves of the country.


Strangely, there is no mention yet on Bloomberg, CNBC, or Yahoo Finance… shocking right?

Russia-gold-

From Prime Russia Forex (via Google translate)

Gold ruble symbol appears in front of the bank “Russia”

RIA Novosti. Russian ruble symbol appears on the Sunday before the office of the joint-stock bank “Russia”, organizers said flashmob.

Action will take place at 15.00 in front of the bank in Perevedenovsky lane in the center of Moscow (near metro “Bauman”).

Golden Badge of the Russian national currency, officially adopted by the Central Bank of Russia, will symbolize a sign of stability and security of the ruble gold reserves of the country,” – say the organizers.

Thus the participants are going to express installation support to the bank “Russia”, which decided to work exclusively on the domestic market and only one currency – the national currency of the Russian Federation – Russian ruble.

U.S. authorities in response to the Crimea to the Russian Federation imposed sanctions on 20 Russians and the bank “Russia”, included in the thirty largest in the country. Consequence of the sanctions was the refusal of the international payment systems Visa and MasterCard spend Card transactions “Russia”, worsening outlook on the bank and the suspension of the rating actions. On Friday, the Bank announced that it will only work in Russia, and only with their pocketbooks.

Russian ruble symbol – the letter R with a horizontal line – was approved by the Central Bank sovdirom in December 2013.

 

 

And all this time the alternative media has been anticipating the introduction of a gold backed yuan…

 

1 oz Gold OPM Bars As Low As $14.99 Over Spot at SDBullion!


  1. “According to reports from Russian media, Putin appears to have sent the west a golden message in the aftermath of JPMorgan unilaterally deciding to block an official Russian wire transfer, as the Central Bank of Russia has introduced a new logo, which just happens to be a gold ruble.”
     
    Right.  That’s the long-winded version.  Putin’s message is pretty clear and looks to me more like, “UP YOURS!”.  lol
     
    “Strangely, there is no mention yet on Bloomberg, CNBC, or Yahoo Finance… shocking right?”
     
    Oh, yeah.  I am totally shocked… as in NOT.  ;-)
     
    “Thus the participants are going to express installation support to the bank “Russia”, which decided to work exclusively on the domestic market and only one currency – the national currency of the Russian Federation – Russian ruble.”
     
    The Bank of Russia didn’t decide a damned thing.  PUTIN decided this.  In Russia, banks work for Putin… unlike here in the US where the government does the banksters bidding and are highly paid for their treachery.
     

    • @Ed_B
      I beg to respectfully differ ED, I believe the big banks all work in unison for the global banking cartel only, as does Putin and Obama. These so called leaders are merely acting out a script that was written at the highest levels. This is not a plan for Russia per se, this is a plan for the global elite to transfer wealth and ultimately reduce the population. That’s my story and I’m stickin’ with it, now I am going to wear this tin foil hat for a few more minutes while I drink my Kool-Aid….. .

    • Never a problem with differing @SilverSlicker.  We learn a lot more when we have differences that we can discuss.  You might be right.  But my opinion is that the banksters are not worldwide in their reach, they really want to be, and that this is THE source of virtually all of the conflict that exists between the East and the West.  If we were all one big happy family, then the reasons for conflict would be greatly reduced.  But, my mind is open to many possibilities.  As more info becomes available, our opinions will shift to accommodate that new info… at least, they should.
       
      “That’s my story and I’m stickin’ with it, now I am going to wear this tin foil hat for a few more minutes while I drink my Kool-Aid….. .”
       
      LOL.  OK, I guess that we all have our preferred flavor of Kool-Aid.  Most of us prefer the silver and gold colored stuff.  But there are many others available.  ;-)
       
      In terms of logic, it is no more reasonable to say that “everything is a plot” than it is to say, “there are no plots”.  I know a few folks who go with either of these while most of us are somewhere in the middle.  Life has taught me that moderation is pretty much the key to doing and being well, so I will stick with that until something else comes along that proves to be better.   Cheers!  :-)
       

    • Not to take the easy way out but you BOTH are correct.

      Ed won on what I would surmise as well, the bait and switch method to skrew over AmeriKa. Damb right our Country was bought and sold back in 1933 to the highest bidder. To be sure, I love teaching a class on the history of how the  Puppet Masters own Washington.
       
      SilverSlicker wins because this is where the fraud is leading. An example is the LIBOR scandal was by design to not only rip off billions in profits, but they wanted to get caught so they can provide a solution: Merge all banks under one umbrella (IMF) so it can’t happen again. A great lie sold to We The People.
       
      Putin and Obama owned by the IMF? Absolutely! How else can WWIII take place without financing both sides by one conglomerate!  My goodness, sound familiar? Just like the Rothschilds financed WWI 100 years ago….history repeats itself.
       
      Everything is right on schedule, they are sticking to the plan.
       
       
       

  2. This is one droplet of a WATERFALL decline in the healthy prognosis for the Dollar. A great follow-on to Jim Willie’s “It’s All Breaking” interview with Greg Hunter linked in another article here on SD.
     
    Since it came out that the US was actually the responsible party behind the Ukraine coup, The US has now committed incident after incident of “BarryKerry” until now, the dollar is mortally wounded… WOW! Just effin’ WOW…….
     
    I think the avalanche of moves just spirals out of control from here… and much faster than most people will realize… oh sure, the inertia is massive, but its like a chess game where the grandmaster positions the pieces all the way to the near-end and then gambit is revealed in two or three moves and the checkmate is suddenly obvious and inescapable. The cutoff by JP Morgan of clearing the embassy transactions last week was the crowning move that cemented that big “R” future.  It would appear to me that the Russian oligarchical Deep State has finally had it’s fill of the BS coming out of New York and the City of London and green-lighted this one…  Buckle up, Kids… cinch those belts down tight, keep your head down and your hands and arms inside the ride so you don’t lose them…. 
     
    WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

    Yanno, I’ve said for a long time that I hated when pundits and commentators attributed the actions of the bankers, government officials, the Fed, and so on, to stupidity and ignorance because I’ve always held the view that the total social, political and financial annihilation of the United States is the endgame result intended by the globalist banker cabal and to attribute these actions to ignorance and stupidity is to ignore the Globalist influence “Elephant in the Room.” As FDR said, “When two things happen in government, you can assume they were planned that way.” Stupid people don’t get into these positions of power, rather they are groomed and approved for their positions by those already installed there…

    Well, in hindsight, it’s now clear just how vital to this plan it was to create and prosecute the war with Syria. Because once that failed to materialize, the bankers, since then, have gone totally, and insanely berserk. Ukraine was their fallback and it blew up. It’s just mind-numbingly amazing to me that, in the aftermath of the Ukraine blunder being exposed as it has, these financial gambits are now blowing up as badly and as quickly as they are, in the staccato of rapid-fire, sequential implosion like the WTC floors… one on top of the other. Even the optic of the pyroclastic ash of the WTC tower collapse comes to mind here… After all, wasn’t it the international mega-banker cabal that was supposedly a collection of the sharpest banker/financial tacticians in the entire world with God-knows-how-many Think Tank hours invested in the careful and meticulous creation of their plans that is now seeing these events blow up like clockwork as they have??? Kinda reminds me of that game we played as kids called MOUSETRAP… the ball went down the slide… tripped the lever… that swung the bat that… shook the pole and, in the end, the cage came down on top of the mouse…. in this analogy, the bankers are the mouse and their crude little Rube Goldberg attempts to play their chess pieces on the world stage are the mousetrap pieces that, in the end, have caught them… and, yeah, their efforts don’t seem much more sophisticated than the contraption in the game when evaluated in hindsight…

    Now, while one could make the case that this dollar collapse forwards the end of the United States, the piece that tells me the careful and precise strategy has come apart at the seams and given way to sheer desperation and chaos is that, the way things are going, the dollar’s demise looks as if it will come FIRST — ahead of their ability to ‘sheeple the people’ into the final submission to the new paradigm here in the US and take over the whole system of governance. Syria and then Ukraine were intended to help preserve the US Petro-Dollar hegemony by breaking the threats to the energy-for-dollars only monopoly enjoyed by the US for a little while longer while the US domestic economy was weakened and the people of the US were further indebted and discouraged by a deteriorating economy. And, now, when the dollar implodes FIRST, that’s the end of the banker’s power base. POOF! GONE! GAME ‘effing OVER!!! No Money, No Power. Bankers hoisted on their own fiat banknote petards!!! What an irony huh??? The game is then over for the bastards and soon enough, it’s hemp futures time and long falls to the end of the rope. Where do I sign up to pull the levers???

    Oops! Aw Gee… couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch, if you ask me… WOO HOO!

    • “…when the dollar implodes FIRST, that’s the end of the banker’s power base. POOF! GONE! GAME ‘effing OVER!!!”
       
      I agree 99.9999% except that when the dollar implodes, that’s when the final colossal monetary shift from the west to the east happens. This is all planed for ahead of time. This is why China has slowly been taking our jobs, manufacturing, gold and real estate….it is the plan. The banks/wealth will simply no longer need the dollar to run the game, leaving the gun toting, freedom lovers to fen for themselves.
       
      Sorry, forgot to remove the tin foil hat……..

    • @Sovereign Economist
       
      Wow, SE… you DO have a way with words.  Any chance you could write up an article on things like this from time to time?  I know that I would be happy to read every word of it… and then study it!  :-)
       
      “Since it came out that the US was actually the responsible party behind the Ukraine coup, The US has now committed incident after incident of “BarryKerry” until now, the dollar is mortally wounded… WOW! Just effin’ WOW…….”
       
      Indeed so… and this IS happening on the watch of those oh, so brilliant types who know all, see all, and control all.  HA!  The fact is, they are powerful but they are still people… and people DO make mistakes.  Many things are in motion and the more complex the plan, the more moving parts it has, and the more likely it becomes that unforeseen events will occur to bollix up the works.  When much is to be gained, much must be risked.  The banksters have doubled, tripled, and quadrupled down on this bet and it is not going well for them.  The recent spate of bankster deaths is likely only the very tip of this iceberg, but it is a telling one.
       
      “I think the avalanche of moves just spirals out of control from here… and much faster than most people will realize… oh sure, the inertia is massive, but its like a chess game where the grandmaster positions the pieces all the way to the near-end and then gambit is revealed in two or three moves and the checkmate is suddenly obvious and inescapable.”
       
      Agreed!  Sequences of events like this tend to move very slowly for a long time and then as they near the end of the game they speed up immensely.  As Hemingway described his going broke… “…very slowly at first and then very quickly“.
       
      “I’ve said for a long time that I hated when pundits and commentators attributed the actions of the bankers, government officials, the Fed, and so on, to stupidity and ignorance because I’ve always held the view that the total social, political and financial annihilation of the United States is the endgame result intended by the globalist banker cabal and to attribute these actions to ignorance and stupidity is to ignore the Globalist influence “Elephant in the Room.””
       
      And yet, being human, there IS room for error, some of which can be attributed to stupidity from this nepotistic and in-bred crowd of bankster elites.  But I would agree that this is a minor contributor to their problems.
       
      “Well, in hindsight, it’s now clear just how vital to this plan it was to create and prosecute the war with Syria. Because once that failed to materialize, the bankers, since then, have gone totally, and insanely berserk. Ukraine was their fallback and it blew up. It’s just mind-numbingly amazing to me that, in the aftermath of the Ukraine blunder being exposed as it has, these financial gambits are now blowing up as badly and as quickly as they are, in the staccato of rapid-fire, sequential implosion like the WTC floors… one on top of the other.”
       
      When a complex plan unravels, many are the repercussions.  Plans within plans, wheels within wheels… and the more complex a plan, the greater the chance that parts of it will fail at just the wrong times, ruining their part of the task and affecting other parts that depended on it working.  This is often why a simple plan with fewer moving parts works better, if less subtly, than one that is complex.  A collection of related but simple plans would probably work best to further their aims than a single “grand plan”… but, let’s not tell them that!  ;-)
       
      “Now, while one could make the case that this dollar collapse forwards the end of the United States, the piece that tells me the careful and precise strategy has come apart at the seams and given way to sheer desperation and chaos is that, the way things are going, the dollar’s demise looks as if it will come FIRST — ahead of their ability to ‘sheeple the people’ into the final submission to the new paradigm here in the US and take over the whole system of governance.”
       
      I’m not convinced that something as dramatic and far-reaching as a USD collapse can be timed all that accurately.  Maybe it can but there would have to be so many things that happened to just the right extent and at just the right time to pull this off that it seems statistically impossible.  Crashing the USD after decades of prep?  Yes, I can see that.  But, crashing it JUST when they want it to?  Probably not.  As you mention with Syria and with Ukraine, not everything is going according to their plan and that will surely introduce considerable delay in their timing as they are forced to fall back, regroup, and either repair or replace their plan.
       
      “And, now, when the dollar implodes FIRST, that’s the end of the banker’s power base. POOF! GONE! GAME ‘effing OVER!!! No Money, No Power. Bankers hoisted on their own fiat banknote petards!!! What an irony huh???”
       
      And those petards can be wickedly sharp and painful when inserted into the proper body orifice… hoist them high… and then let gravity do the work… slowly. >:-{
       
      “The game is then over for the bastards and soon enough, it’s hemp futures time and long falls to the end of the rope.”
       
      Agreed… and that will be a case of “well earned, well deserved”.  I do believe that their rooms in Hell are all prepared and waiting for them as we speak.  If they thought that their exit from this sphere was a bi+ch, they ain’t seen nothin yet!
       
      “Where do I sign up to pull the levers???””
       
      HA!  You and about a billion other people.  Gonna have to run a lottery on that one, as there will be MANY wanting that job.  Hell, auction off the rights for this or that bankster via an eBay auction and make some money off of these b@st@rds for a change!  For an extra fee, one can even CHOOSE the method of execution.  Then, of course, there will be the pay per view rights to consider.   ;-p    (with tongue only slightly in cheek)
       

    • Let’s not forget that when nefarious plans go awry, people get desperate, and desperate people tend to become vicious and violent, as in martial law with all of its attendant oppressive permutations. 

    • @DanDaley
       
      I agree, Dan… but desperation works BOTH ways.  If TPTB screw over enough people, they may go full-on berserk.  As Gerald Celente says, “When people lose everything, they lose it”.  If there is nothing left to lose, then all bets are off and screw the rules.  During a SHTF episode, there will be a lot of civil unrest.  The Gov will move to quell that, especially in the major cities.  I would be happy to sit that out quietly at home.  If they start kicking doors, though, that will be the signal that it is time to stand for liberty and not take any of their guff.  I follow the law whenever possible but not doing so is immoral or stupid.
       
      Speaking of doors… have you noticed that in public buildings, all the doors open out so that if there is a fire, people will not be trapped inside by a crowd pushing them against inward opening doors from behind?  In homes, however, the doors always open IN.  Guess which one is a LOT easier to kick down?  Yep, the ones that open in.  Home invaders use this technique a lot.  If our doors opened out, they would have a MUCH more difficult time of this because the entire frame of the door would support the door from being forced open and not just the lock.  I do not think that this is written into building codes without reason.
       

    • @Ed_B
      “…Wow, SE… you DO have a way with words.  Any chance you could write up an article on things like this from time to time?”
      You are WAY TOO KIND!  Coming from  you, I’m absolutely flattered… (Blush)
      I said in my previous post:
      “…“I’ve said for a long time that I hated when pundits and commentators attributed the actions of the bankers, government officials, the Fed, and so on, to stupidity and ignorance because I’ve always held the view that the total social, political and financial annihilation of the United States is the endgame result intended by the globalist banker cabal and to attribute these actions to ignorance and stupidity is to ignore the Globalist influence “Elephant in the Room.”
      I think I need to clarify this statement just a bit.  It IS THE PUNDITS and COMMENTATORS labeling the official’s actions as stupid or ignorant that I have a problem with… either because they blindly proceed from the assumption that these officials would be interested in saving the country or solving our problems… or, perhaps more insidiously, they DO know better but are part of the propagandist misdirection campaign! The ignorant of these PUNDITS and COMMENTATORS are the ones who either won’t acknowledge, or just don’t understand THAT THE ENTIRE AGENDA OF THOSE IN THE DRIVER’S SEAT with respect to these policy ‘decisions’  IS NOTHING LESS THAN DRIVING THIS COUNTRY OVER THE CLIFF TO IT’S TOTAL AND COMPLETE UTTER ANNIHILATION and DESTRUCTION!!!  And doing so, btw, in a way that might offer those responsible some plausible deniability for the result!!! 

      If you’ll notice, no one of these P’s and C’s ever bothers to QUESTION the policy decisions themselves.  But, worse,no one stops to realize that the Bernankes, the Geitners, the Obamas, and even the Congressional leadership ALWAYS READ from carefully prepared scripts. This is because the language is crucial and precise!!!  What they say ISN”T THEIR IDEA!!!  If you notice, Bernanke NEVER spoke before Congress without his prepared speech AND his legal counsel (his handler) present.  And we ALL KNOW how Barry does off his teleprompter….  People need to realize that these guys are mere strawmen actors placed in the roles to portray competence to, and instill confidence in, the public — all the while merely reading statements that have come out of the globalist shadow system of ops like the Rand Corporation or any of a dozen other NWO/CFR planning orgs, every word carefully crafted to convey a very specific message… but it is here, behind the scenes, where these policies are developed and promulgated.  The ENTIRE public presentation of this stuff IS ALL SCRIPTED behind closed doors.  They can’t afford to let these guys slip up, the stakes are simply too high now. 

      Why do you think Bernanke always looked like the scared little schoolkid called before the Principal at school during the Humphrey Hawkins testimony or when called before any of the Congressional hearings???  Watch Yellen at the next FOMC meeting and ask yourself how much of her diction appears to come from her own voice.  It bears repeating here: People fail to understand JUST HOW SCRIPTED the WHOLE PUBLIC PRESENTATION IS in these matters…  ALL OF IT!!!  FOMC is now nothing more than a tool to trim-tab the market manipulations at the macro-level…  the statements are designed to tweak public (read market) response at the ‘retail’ level… and send the proper command and control messages to the proper players in the markets with a public prop behind it.  Weren’t FOMC meetings once quarterly???  What happened? Simple. They needed more granularity in their control of the markets. Monthly meetings provided that. The choreography is beyond imagination in it’s detail and subtlety everywhere in the public sector…  After all, the command and control of a centrally planned economy built on nothing but lies and misdirection can’t afford to make any mistakes in the public discourse.  Yes, the PLANS and the steps DO APPEAR stupid and ignorant if you are expecting that the actors would be acting in America’s best interest.  THEY AREN”T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  but….  with all due respect to Gary Allen, NONE DARE CALL IT A CONSPIRACY!!!!
       
      “…I’m not convinced that something as dramatic and far-reaching as a USD collapse can be timed all that accurately…”

      Of all the points that you made, this one sticks out to me as the one I most want to address…  It needs to be understood that, without question, the elites can, at ANY TIME, bring the entire world’s financial system to a crashing halt within 72 hours.  ALL OF IT!!!  They have actually tested the methodology to accomplish this and it proved to work exactly as they thought it would.
       
      There is an international system in place between all the world’s banks called the interbank lending system.  Each day, billions of dollars flow through it from one bank to another and between countries as international trade is settled and cleared.  These trades are cleared in all currencies through this facility and it runs 24/7/365.  One of the pieces of this is the 7-day lending (repo) facility.  It allows the banks to balance their books between each other at the close of each business cycle (day), and it potentially clears hundreds of billions of dollars in a typical daily cycle.  The 7-day repo rate is typically around an interest rate of about 3.3%.  Think of it as the financial world’s circulatory system.
      On Thursday, June 20th, 2013,  Ben Bernanke gave a (prepared) speech.  Prior to this speech, the Fed had been making rumblings of beginning a reduction in the rate of QE — what we’d come to know as ‘taper’ as the summer wore on.  But on this day, he added a sentence to the routine.  Now, you have to realize that very little of what Bernanke said was his own words as I explained earlier.  Rather he was one of the stage actors reading from prepared speeches given him by his handlers.  And, on THIS day, for the first time we had heard one new sentence. It raised the mere POSSIBILITY of raising of interest rates at the same time along with the usual comments about a QE reduction.
       
      This comment about the interest rate rise was carefully inserted in the speech as a test of the market system response.  By Friday morning, not 24 hours later, in London that 7 day repo rate had risen to 8.62%.  By Saturday morning… now Sunday morning in China, their biggest bank, ICBC saw a peak rate of 12.33% as the interest spike shock ripped through the whole interbank system.  This rate spike had the effect of seizing up the entire interbank system for the world’s banking system, leaving EVERY BANK in it technically bankrupt as they could not close their books.  By Monday morning, most of the banks around the world would be unable to open. Imagine the impact on the US dollar in the Forex if suddenly you could not get dollars across international borders… can you say, “No BID!”
       
      But this was ONLY A TEST… to see if they could lock up the repo facilties and bring the system down on the MERE suggestion of an interest rate rise by the Fed.  Sunday, BIS personnel contacted every bank in the system and ‘cancelled’ the rate spike and, by Monday morning, all was back to normal and the world was none the wiser…
       
      We actually saw a similar thing happen in 2008 that ‘piled on’ to an already challenged state in the the original banking crisis.  Then too, the system was locked up when Hank Paulson met a stubborn Congress that balked at the extortion of $700B to save the banks in what became known as TARP.  There, within 30 minutes, over $550B ‘disappeared’ from money market accounts in clearing operations.  I actually personally saw this number shrivel live on a Bloomberg Terminal in one of my client’s offices…  I didnt understand what it meant at the time, but it looked like an early version of a flash-crash and was quite scary to watch.  Well, fright was the intent. It was extortion by the bankers, pure and simple, but it removed all doubt as to whether or not they could implode the system ON DEMAND in very short order…

      So, don’t imagine for a moment that the world financial system isn’t subject to total shutdown on demand of those who want it down, when the day comes that the switch is pulled.

      By contrast, on the other hand… SAVING IT in the face of a global loss of system confidence might be a very different story.  Even central planning is dwarfed by the global markets as a whole….  but that’s another story entirely.
       

    • @Sovereign Economist
       
      “You are WAY TOO KIND!  Coming from  you, I’m absolutely flattered… (Blush)”
       
      Not a bit of it SE.  Your knowledge is vast in scope and depth and many of the topics upon which you expound are in areas that we all need to learn more about… and what better source do we have hereabouts?  :-)
       
      Much as I appreciate your comments and agree with most of them, however, there is still plenty of room in all this for honest debate and differing opinions.  Most of us here would not want it any other way!  :-)
       
      “It IS THE PUNDITS and COMMENTATORS labeling the official’s actions as stupid or ignorant that I have a problem with…”
       
      Ah, understood.  They do, indeed, seem complicit in all this.  Among the techniques they seem to prefer is that of offering two possible explanations for things that are happening.  I have often heard this on radio or TV and thought that neither of those seemed plausible.  They weren’t.  They were simple misdirection that was aimed at making us think that there were two possibilities, when in fact there was only one and they would NEVER mention that because their sugar daddies would then be very angry with them.  The threat of loss of position, status, and LOTS of money guides them to make the “right” comments.
       
      “But, worse,no one stops to realize that the Bernankes, the Geitners, the Obamas, and even the Congressional leadership ALWAYS READ from carefully prepared scripts. This is because the language is crucial and precise!!!”
       
      Yes, I have noticed that.  The simple answer is that they want to make sure that they do not say something that will be analyzed to death and that will make them appear to be less than completely competent.  Their value as shills depends on this.  But, as we both know, the truth of the matter is far deeper than that, as you so eloquently state.
       
      “Why do you think Bernanke always looked like the scared little schoolkid called before the Principal at school during the Humphrey Hawkins testimony or when called before any of the Congressional hearings???”
       
      I have no idea.  The people in the congress (opposite of progress) were so busy kissing his butt that I don’t think that they had ANY time to notice the look on his face!  I saw exactly the same thing when Jamie Dimon was “called” before congress to “answer their intelligent and penetrating questions (/sarc) about his banking activities”.  THEY were the ones who looked like scared rabbits as they fawned all over him and tossed him some softball questions.  As you say, HE provided them with these questions and the order in which they would be asked.  His answers were all ready and waiting.  :-(
       
      “Weren’t FOMC meetings once quarterly???  What happened? Simple. They needed more granularity in their control of the markets. Monthly meetings provided that.”
       
      That would be one explanation.  Another would be that the market is now so much faster and more volatile that quarterly meetings cannot keep up with market events to the degree that those in the Fed would like.  Just saying.
       
      “Yes, the PLANS and the steps DO APPEAR stupid and ignorant if you are expecting that the actors would be acting in America’s best interest.  THEY AREN”T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
       
      And yet, as we have seen in both Syria and in Ukraine, these marvelous plans can and do blow up in their faces from time to time.  We can take some comfort from that because if they do not then we might as well roll over and accept the inevitable things that they have planned for us.  Some people make these banksters out to be all-knowing, all-seeing, and all-powerful.  They fail to recognize that if that truly is the case, the game is not only over but it never existed in the 1st place.  We only thought that it did.  No, they ARE human beings with all the foibles that humans are known to possess.  Powerful?  Without a doubt.  Perfect?  FAR from it!  Of course, they do not need to be perfect to be extremely dangerous.
       
      “It needs to be understood that, without question, the elites can, at ANY TIME, bring the entire world’s financial system to a crashing halt within 72 hours.  ALL OF IT!!!”
       
      Since ALL of their power comes from this system and milking it for all that it is worth, what possible benefit could there be to doing that?  If they control the world’s finances, then they already control all that really matters.  I seem to recall a quote along the lines of, “Give me control of a nation’s currency and I care not who makes its laws”.  The recent attempts to blackmail the Russians are illustrative.  If these elite banksters actually controlled Russia or China, they would simple issue orders without all this drama.  They would, however, very much like to control these countries and THAT is what much of this conflict and sanctions are all about… IMO, of course.
       
      “There is an international system in place between all the world’s banks called the interbank lending system.  Each day, billions of dollars flow through it from one bank to another and between countries as international trade is settled and cleared.  These trades are cleared in all currencies through this facility and it runs 24/7/365.”
       
      I thought that this was the function of the SWIFT system and the BIS.  Also, banks borrow and lend to each other through the interbank market as a convenience.  They are forced neither to lend to or borrow from this system.  Clearly, banks existed long before this system came to be and can, no doubt, operate without it.  Any loans that were made but not yet repaid (mostly over-night) would be in limbo if this apparatus were to be disrupted.  I don’t think that the banks would want it disrupted, though… so, crashing the system via this route seems possible but unlikely.
       
      ” Imagine the impact on the US dollar in the Forex if suddenly you could not get dollars across international borders… can you say, “No BID!””
       
      Why, yes, I can.  I can also see trunks filled with money being sent via air freight in lieu of such a system.  ;-)
       
      “It was extortion by the bankers, pure and simple, but it removed all doubt as to whether or not they could implode the system ON DEMAND in very short order…”
       
      Methinks that this is a far better threat than an actual tool that would be used… like nukes in today’s world.  Yes, it is possible but it doesn’t seem all that likely.
       
      “So, don’t imagine for a moment that the world financial system isn’t subject to total shutdown on demand of those who want it down, when the day comes that the switch is pulled.”
       
      Which IS possible, just unlikely, IMO.  We all know the story of the Golden Goose.  The world economy today is that goose.  Yes, they could gut it but then all they’d get would be a dinner or two and not a continuous stream of nice shiny eggs.
       
      “By contrast, on the other hand… SAVING IT in the face of a global loss of system confidence might be a very different story.  Even central planning is dwarfed by the global markets as a whole….  but that’s another story entirely.”
       
      Yes, it is.  But it is also one that is very much worth the telling.  Please do consider that sometime.
       
      My thought on all this is that the elites can and do have plans either at work or ready to be implemented at any time.  This is pretty much guaranteed.  What is not guaranteed is whether or not those plans will actually work.  Always remember that banksters are parasites of the worst kind but even they recognize that if their depredations manage to kill the host, they too will die.  They must continuously feed off of the body of world finance but not to the extent that it is killed.  They simply MUST keep it alive, if at all possible, because they cannot survive without it.
       

    • @ED_B
       

      …I thought that this was the function of the SWIFT system and the BIS….”
       
       
       
      The Swift system is quite distinct from the Interbank system I was referring to.
       
       
       
      You can think of the SWIFT system as a secure communications messaging network. It’s similar to what the old Telex system of the 60′s to the 80′s was… SWIFT does not facilitate funds transfer; (move money) rather, it sends payment orders (instructions) which must be settled by correspondent accounts that the institutions have with each other. Each financial institution, to exchange banking transactions, must have a banking relationship by either being a bank or affiliating itself with one (or more)
       
       
       
      For example, If I am in Germany and bank with Deutschebank while you are in the US and bank with JP Morgan, and I buy something from you, I go to my Deutschebank office and initiate a transaction to move my funds from my DB account to the JPM correspondent account at DB in Germany. Once that transfer is completed. then Swift sends the payment order to the NY office of JPM instructing them to take money from their DB correspondent account and move it to your account. It’s merely a journal entry at this time. No Funds have yet actually been transferred.
       
       
       
      The Interbank system I referred to will then be used to complete that transfer as a part of the close of business day end-cycle process and it is then that the transfer of those funds actually occurs, per that payment order, from their correspondent account at DB to their own account in NY.
       
       
       
      Fed Wire, by contrast allows direct transfers between US domestic accounts in the system known as ACH (Automated Clearing House) heh heh, a sort of MERS for the banking system lol….
       
       
       
      When the US denied Iran’s Swift System access, they simply locked access to all Iranian correspondent accounts, freezing the funds. The system was designed this way and it’s by this method that there are always funds that the US can reach out and impound so quickly and easily when they decide to be bratty a**holes.
       
       
       
      [regarding the interbank system]…They [the banks] are forced neither to lend to or borrow from this system.”
       
       
       
      Actually, that could be true if it weren’t for those nasty things called derivatives. Their values change daily and must be marked to market at the close of each business cycle. So they ARE forced to lend and borrow to settle these things. Plus, they are ‘forced’ out of their greed to trade and it’s that grubby addiction to profits that suck’s em in… you also see carry-trade and swap deals between banks by the thousands each day… Heh heh, Forced??? Do we HAVE to have Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll? Do Bankers HAVE to have money??? :) And, I suppose you could ask Bruno Iksil, the “London Whale” about the ‘convenience” factor! Remember that a bank profits by arbitrage — which requires a perpetual transfer of funds. It’s like the respiration system for a bank. No trading = Death!
       
       
       
      …Methinks that this is a far better threat than an actual tool that would be used… like nukes in today’s world.  Yes, it is possible but it doesn’t seem all that likely…”
       
       
       
      AND…
       
       
       
      …Which IS possible, just unlikely, IMO.  We all know the story of the Golden Goose.  The world economy today is that goose.  Yes, they could gut it but then all they’d get would be a dinner or two and not a continuous stream of nice shiny eggs…”
       
       
       
      As to the question as to why, if the banker’s power centers around the dollar, they would want to collapse it: There are two pieces to at least the financial aspect of your answer to remember. First, dollars are not wealth, they are merely currency. Second, remember that, in a collapse, wealth is never destroyed. It is merely transferred. Bankers hold debts of borrowers. If they kill the currency, they destroy the borrower’s means to service the debt and default ensues. Foreclosure completes the wealth transfer. And, since the dollar is really only currency, it’s actually also a debt instrument, or obligation, of the bankers, if the currency goes to zero, that’s the ultimate in financial repression!!! When the dollar goes, so does their debt obligation to the now-worthless instrument. Clever bastards! Ask yourself how many Collateral Debt Obligations were blown up in the offices of Cantor-Fitzgerald in the WTC on the morning of 9/11? Worthless debt instruments indeed! LOL!
       
       
       
      There WILL come a day when the orchards have been plucked clean of golden apples and the geese have been depleted… BY DESIGN… right now, in the collapse cycle, there’s still enough golden kitchen sinks and ‘stuff’ around not nailed down securely, to keep the bazaar open for the pickin’s… but the depletion is quite accelerated at this point. When they decide to leave the ruins, the switch will be pulled and they will then attempt to “…secure the gains by destroying the claims…”
       
       
       
      And from this, you can understand why the precious metals are, in fact, so precious. They can never be foreclosed upon! :)
       

    • @Sovereign Economist
       
      We have GOT to start a new thread here.  Scrolling up 8 screens just to find a REPLY button is redorkulous.  These messages SHOULD be nested so that we can reply directly to ANY message.   ;-)
       
      “The Swift system is quite distinct from the Interbank system I was referring to.”
       
      OK, good.  Thanks for the explanation of Swift (notification system) vs. Interbank (money transfer system).  :-)
       
      “Fed Wire, by contrast allows direct transfers between US domestic accounts in the system known as ACH (Automated Clearing House) heh heh, a sort of MERS for the banking system lol….”
       
      Thanks for mentioning the ACH system.  I would like to use this from time to time but my CU cannot do it.  They do have other means of wire transfer of funds, though.  My wife and I used that last Feb to pay off our house.  I thought that it was the safest way to transfer the money to our mortgage company and there is no way that the mortgage company can say that they did not receive the funds or “they got lost in the mail”.  It was fast and worked very well.  It cost a bit but it was worth it, IMO.
       
      “When the US denied Iran’s Swift System access, they simply locked access to all Iranian correspondent accounts, freezing the funds. The system was designed this way and it’s by this method that there are always funds that the US can reach out and impound so quickly and easily when they decide to be bratty a**holes.”
       
      Which it seems that they do, more often than not.  :-/
       
      “Actually, that could be true if it weren’t for those nasty things called derivatives.”
       
      Ah, but therein lies the rub.  No one, other than their own greed, is forcing them to buy the damned derivatives!
       
      “Remember that a bank profits by arbitrage — which requires a perpetual transfer of funds. It’s like the respiration system for a bank. No trading = Death!”
       
      Well, if so, then this is the kennel that the SOBs have created for themselves.  Time was that banks did not need all this extraneous BS to do quite well.  Unfortunately, greed got the better of them and they are now mostly leveraged to the eyeballs.  This is fine… WHEN THEY WIN those leveraged bets but when they do not is when they go crying to Uncle Sugar for a massive handout of tax-payer-provided currency.  If only Uncle Sam had the BIG brass ones to tell the banks to F*** OFF!  As in, “Well now, boys, you got your butts in a wringer and you’re just going to have to get yourselves out.  The people running a failed bank plus their stock and bond holders should take a terrific bath while the DEPOSITORS get bailed out by the Gov / Fed / FDIC.  Do that a time or two and even a bankster would get the message!  
      <insert evil grin here>
       
      “First, dollars are not wealth, they are merely currency. Second, remember that, in a collapse, wealth is never destroyed. It is merely transferred.”
       
      Agree that USD are not wealth.  Hell, they’re not even MONEY.  They are no different from a promissory note, only these are continually passed around and NEVER PAID!  :-(
       
      In general, wealth is not destroyed but is transferred.  I agree on that, subject to those occasions where wealth is, if not destroyed, at least dissipated to the point that it might as well be destroyed, insofar as the net effect on the owner goes.
       
      ” If they kill the currency, they destroy the borrower’s means to service the debt and default ensues. Foreclosure completes the wealth transfer.”
       
      If there is a contract that is payable in so many USD over such and such time period, then that contract can be met by transferring that amount of dollars to the lender at the requisite time.  Whether those dollars hold any value or not is not the problem of the borrower.  He or she is not the guarantor of the currency.  He or she has met the terms of the contract.  This is the currency risk that the lender assumes when drafting the loan contract and for which they are paid, via part of the interest payments.  This is not the only risk that the lender assumes but it is one of them.
       
      “Ask yourself how many Collateral Debt Obligations were blown up in the offices of Cantor-Fitzgerald in the WTC on the morning of 9/11? “
       
      I try to avoid asking myself that which is unanswerable.  I sleep better than way.  ;-)
       
      ” When they decide to leave the ruins, the switch will be pulled and they will then attempt to “…secure the gains by destroying the claims…””
       
      Somehow, I just can’t see this working as neatly and sweetly as you lay out.  At some point, the borrowers, which are many, are going to be ROYALLY PO’d and not take this s**t anymore.  At that point, those few trying to collect such fabricated squeeze-play debts are going to have a REALLY bad day.  The LAST one usually is.
       
      “And from this, you can understand why the precious metals are, in fact, so precious. They can never be foreclosed upon!”
       
      LOL!  If I did not already think this, I would not now own a good pile of them.  Not only can they not be foreclosed on (although the Gov may just try that ala 1933 and the infamous EO 6102) but they also cannot be pulled out of thin air at the whim of either the Fed or the Gov.  Hence the term, HONEST MONEY.  :-)
       
      Although, there HAVE been instances wherein banks HAVE tried to foreclose on properties that they did not even own.  I believe that B of A had some difficulty with that just last year, IIRC.
       
      “Heh heh, the universe can work in strange ways….”
       
      Indeed it does, SE.  Good article.  Holter and Hoffman are two of my favorite writers these days.  Although I would differentiate “getting out of the way” from “running like hell”.  GS seems to doing the latter, IMO.  They see something coming that they do not want ANY part of and bailing out now could give them sufficient separation from it when the SHTF.  As to their clients (aka Muppets), I don’t understand why they still have any of these.  After repeatedly screwing them, one would think that even the dullest of them would “GET IT” by now and not have anything to do with these people.  I know that I don’t need to hit my financial thumb with a hammer even once to recognize it as a BAD IDEA.  lol
        
       

  3. It matters not to me anyway, whichever way the silver wind blows because either way, I win. It goes up hard….I am happy that I preserved wealth…..it goes down hard, I buy more and preserve more wealth. It’s a win-win situation since in the not long run, it is only going to skyrocket, and I am a patient man.

    • @SilverSlicker
       
      In this, as well as in many other aspects of life, patience is, indeed, a virtue.  The trick is to not get so deeply into it that price reversals can force us to sell when prices are low.  Betting on the come is fine but going all in with it is not.  We have to play the odds and  not let them play us.

      BTW… this is the exact same approach that I used in my 401K plan investing… which worked wonderfully. I expect the same from my silver and gold buying but have no idea what the timing will be. I just feel very strongly that at some point, it will become clear to many that this was the right thing to do. But, by that time, the days of the cheap metals will be long gone and either one has them or one does not. If so, then we will do VERY well and if not, then they will likely be priced out of reach for most folks.

    • Ed_B
      Very true words. Trying to time the market, especially one which is manipulated, is almost always a losing proposition unless you can firmly hold.  The question is not if you stack but what percentage of your assets are involved and how you accumulate them. Personally, I have been holding PMs long since the mid 90′s however I have never been “all in” and never plan on being so. Until the day when we see a currency reset or hyperinflation we all need some fiat for day to day living expenses. Set the percentage you feel comfortable with and step into it as you are able.

    • @Cyberspace Void
       
      “Trying to time the market, especially one which is manipulated, is almost always a losing proposition unless you can firmly hold.”
       
      It sure is.  Back when Louis Rukeyser had the Wall Street Week program on PBS-TV, he once interviewed Peter Lynch and Warren Buffet at the same time.  Both of those great investors said that they were unable to time the market.  I figure that if they cannot, who can?  No one, of course, because the market is WAY smarter than any individual or small group.  The Gov and the Fed have yet to learn this lesson, of course, so continue to fiddle with the market as if their piddling with it is of some value.  It isn’t.  It only delays the on-set of necessary recessions, allowing it to grow MUCH bigger and hit the economy MUCH harder when it does finally occur.  Recessions are a market cleansing mechanism.  These MUST occur in order to clean out the misallocations of capital that occur from time to time.  They are not bad and not evil.  They are simply our economy cleansing and resetting itself. But no politician wants a recession on their watch, so they collude with the Fed in order to prevent these necessary cleansing periods.  The end result is a sick economy that can’t grow or provide the jobs we need for our citizens.  Sound familiar?  This is not rocket science.  Even the dullards in DC OUGHT to be able to figure this out and then plan accordingly.  So far, not, however.

       
      “Until the day when we see a currency reset or hyperinflation we all need some fiat for day to day living expenses.”
       
      Indeed so.  Having that fiat means that we can meet our daily obligations / pay our bills.  It also forms a cushion that means that we do not have to sell our PMs when prices are down in order to get the cash to pay our bills.  When PM prices fall and we can still pay our bills from other sources, we don’t care that PM prices are down.  That only allows us to buy a little more if we want.  Fiat is for short-term spending while PMs are for long-term saving.
       

  4. Unless there are huge untapped amounts of gold and silver ore stashed away on government lands, we here in the US are going to first have no global accepted currency for trade then with all our gold having gone East, we will starve!
    It will be China and Russia doing to us what Russia did to the Crimea, never firing a shot.
    Happy days will not be here again folks………….

    • Whoa, there @Minutia.  Not so fast.  The USA is a vastly wealthy country in terms of raw materials and has a very large amount of excellent farmland and a generally mild climate.  We ARE the world’s bread basket.  As long as we can grow food to feed a hungry world, we DO have something to trade that is in high demand.  Admittedly, we have stumbled badly with the GMO debacle but we can and will recover from that mistake.  
       
      There are large gold and silver deposits here in the US but many of them are not profitable at the current depressed prices for those metals.  As PM prices rise, more of this valuable resource will be exploited.  
       
      We have more coal than Saudi Arabia has oil but we need to find ways to burn it cleanly and efficiently.  It too is a valuable export commodity.  As other countries develop, more energy will be needed.  Coal-fired electric plants are inexpensive to build and operate and can be put just about anywhere.  The death of coal as a vital energy source has been exaggerated.  It will be in use for at least decades, if not much longer.  Human beings will continue to use coal until something much more advanced comes along to displace it… like fusion power… and that is probably 50-100 years in the future.
       
      Yes, we have a lot of problems but they are challenges that we can, must, and will meet with intelligence and lots of hard work.  All is not lost, not by a LONG shot.  Cheers!  :-)
       

    • I don’t feel like typing massive amounts of data tonight but there was a reason Uncle Teddy nationalized them thar parks out west, it was a way to store Gold and Silver in the mountains for use in the future.  Kinda like how the Big Oil companies created the environmentalists to ban drilling in AmeriKa while we plundered the Third World countries.
       
      There’s more but that’s a good start. Thanks to Ed and Slicker….keep up the good work. The only way WE are going to get an education it to teach each other and spread the truth.
       
      Anybody got a beer?
       
      Yeah, I’m unprepared tonight…..sorry, it won’t happen again.

    • @TheRedPill
      “…I don’t feel like typing massive amounts of data tonight…”
      Oh, LORD, how I know THAT sentiment…  I read stuff here as well as few other places over the course of every day and my mind just RACES with things to add/change/delete in commentary I read…  but there is NO WAY I can keep UP and get it all DOWN!!!
       
      That’s one reason I’m thankful YOU are around to help take up the load…  Thanks for all you add to this forum…  :)

  5. The global oil trade is valued at $3 trillion, almost all transacted in US Dollars.  How much of this trade is now outside the dollar?  $50 billion–$100 billion? Including all of Iran’s trade.  How much petro trade must shift to another currency and commodities before the petro dollar is in really bad trouble?
    Like Hemingway said.  You go bankrupt slowly at first and then very quickly.  We are on our way, aided by our central banks and friends in high places
    The “BUT” and a very big but, is that a bankrupt will see debts removed and have a clean slate.  As EdB says, we are a resource-rich nation. If we husband our resources carefully, we could move to the other side of the bankruptcy as a stronger nation.  

    • if that is the case ( bankruptcy will remove the debt )… then we all citizen of the world will be happy
      but… if we look in our history… it’s not the case
      just like if someone or a company declare bankruptcy… what happened to them ?
      are the debt just disapper ? … and the court just say to the creditor “mind your own business” ? i am done…
      the reality is… all of the debtor ( borrower ) “asset” will be seized to fulfill the debt
      .
      but if the debt are greater than his/her asset ?
      there is one word many people mis understood… “slave”
      .
      yup… if the debt are greater than his / her asset
      not only all of his asset are gone
      but also he become a slave, to pay off the rest of the debt he owe  .
      in india ( or another poor country ), this practices are common to “solve” someone debt
      ( sometimes his son or daughter also become slave to fulfill the debt )
      .
      by the way… there is one more “problem”
      how do we determine the value of someone “asset” in bankruptcy ?
      yup… if another person or entity bid some “number” to it … and willing to “buy” it ( or exchange )
      ( you see… it’s not us who determined value of our asset but other people does )
      .
      we are dealing with mass slavery without our consent
      oh by the way what is the meaning of “national debt” ?
      is it like “citizen debt” ?

    • “just like if someone or a company declare bankruptcy… what happened to them ?  are the debt just disapper ? … and the court just say to the creditor “mind your own business” ? i am done… the reality is… all of the debtor ( borrower ) “asset” will be seized to fulfill the debt
       
      That is true for individuals and companies but not for sovereign nations.  In some cases, the debt is “restructured”, meaning that they either get more time to pay it off, get a reduced interest rate, pay only part of the debt owed, a combo of these, or just flat out refuse to pay.  While all of these can happen, the debt is usually reduced and restructured.  The borrower and the lenders share the loss.  If the borrower chooses not pay, then they may be unable to borrow any money in the international debt market because no one will trust them to pay it back.  If they do get some loans, the interest rates will be very high to compensate the lenders for the risk of non-payment that they are accepting.
       

    • @Silver Dollar
       
      Bank in the day, people said that the car company FIAT was so named because that stood for, “Fix It Again, Tony”.  Perhaps this same reasoning was applied to these unbacked currencies.  Bankster:  “Why, yes, these notes have value because WE say that they do and we have coerced governments all around the world to agree with us!”.  Meanwhile, back at the home vault, silver and gold sit quietly, shining as brightly as ever, neither inflating nor deflating, not funding foreign wars, being true payment for all debts and not merely the promise of payment, and basically behaving themselves as honest money ought to do.  :-)
       

  6. ronym   those are good points.  The ‘what if’ is if corporate USA declares, or is declared bankrupt, similar to that which occured in 1933, what will become of the government, the people and the natural resources, private property and wealth in that situation. Who is going to foreclose on us/ China? Russia? Bolivia? The City of London or the Vatican?
    In a business bankruptcy the firm seldom survives unless it’s a TBTF public corporation or bank.  The assets are sold off, debts expunged and if the owners signed on personal guarantys, their assets can be seized. What’s left is a corporate black hole.  That is usually called Chapter 13.
    Chapter 11, debtor in possession, sees a firm that may survive and get past it’s rough patch and return to profitability.  Often new investors come in to take over.  The lenders get haircuts and subordinated positions in ownership.    
    Chapter 7 is a personal bankruptcy where the individual sees debts discharged but is left with his or her tools of the trade, vehicle, home (in some cases) and an opportunity to rebuild
    What happens when a major country defaults on trillions of ‘dollars’ in debt? The last time I checked we have not seen that happen in 100 years. Weimar seems to be the cash study of a major GNP going bankrupt.
    According to what I’ve read, the US government has a $16 trillion negative net worth (assets minus liabilities) a negative cash flow of $1 trillion plus and accrued liabilities of $100-200 trillion dollars.   These obligations are owed to the people, companies, other countries, the government itself (public employee pensions) central and private banks and ?????  Heck, USA incorporated is broke beyond repair and belief
    But what of those natural national resources?  What of the people and their labor?   Will we be forced as individuals to repay this debt, yoked to a plough?  Ok, more than we are yoked to the illegal income tax and at interest FRNs with the city state of Washington D.C. as our masters.
     As Pat Fields says on another post, anyone taking Social Security is now a ward of the state with an internal income tax.  I understand that since I am 1 month from starting to get a -1% return of the $300,000 forcibly stolen from me via Social Security tax.  Oh well, that $300,000 plus is sunk costs but I plan to take the money.  Maybe I will buy silver with it.
    If this newly named Federal Entitlement program stops we will not be much the worse for wear.  If Medicare is not around, ditto. We planned for that.  But a net of 7,000 people entering the wardship of the state by taking those funds and for 75% of them it represents the majority if not all of their income.
    bankruptcy is an interesting state
    It allows the person or business to get a fresh start and largely debt free slate
    We can debate the morality of going BK.  Morality is not part of the conversation.  No one should force a person into a suicide pact with bankers.   My posts very specifically spell out my thoughts on this state of affairs.
    In the immortal works of the song smith posted by Bay of Pigs——to the bankers of the world—-  Jump you F******.  Funniest thing I’ve heard in ages and my sentiments exactly.
    You can take my stuff and my crap and my furniture etc etc but you cannot take my freedom.  Or words to that effect
    If someone is pressed by the bankers, debating whether to file BK to get the sons of bitches off his back, just sing them that song—–Jump you F*****s.  Give them a shove if you find one convenient placed near a subway, the roof of a tall building or the end of a shotgun.
     
     

    • @AGXIIK

      One only becomes a ward of the state via programs like SS, IF one is unable to survive without it.  I do not need SS in order to survive and cannot be coerced into doing what I know to be wrong because of the threat of losing it.  This is proved by the fact that I retired at age 55 and did not get a nickle from SS for 7 years.  

      When I turned 62, I filed for SS benefits.  My reasons were: 1) the government took money from me under false pretenses and I want it back; 2) the government has proved beyond all doubt that they are lousy money managers, so it is better to return my money into my hands where it can be managed properly; 3) there is no doubt that at some point, the US Gov will be forced to institute a means test for SS benefits.  While we cannot know when this will occur, that it will occur is not in doubt.  When it occurs, people like me will be closed out of the system and unable to get their money back… unless they are already getting it.  Denying people their money back is only possible politically if they have not started getting it… and  4) there is no difference in SS benefits for people who live an average lifespan.  These are set up to be of exactly the same value, as the SS web site points out.  

      The real choice is, “Do you want fewer larger checks by waiting or do you want more smaller checks by starting at age 62?  Those who live longer than average will get more by waiting, assuming that the SS system does not collapse by then, which it could.  Those living less than average will benefit from starting at age 62 and not waiting.  

      Finally, my Dad was only 67 when he passed.  I am a lot like him physically, so do not know what my future likely holds as far as longevity goes.  Others in my family have lived longer… some well into their 80s and even 90s… like my Mom and grand parents.  

      I am comfortable with my decision to take SS early.  Much of this is devoted to buying preps and PMs.  If I end up getting less than I might have, so what?  That will be the price of guaranteeing that I got at least some of my money back.  Others who need it more are welcome to it.
       

    • I agree that SS makes you a ward of the state if you can’t support yourself in retirement …. fortunately I will not be in that position. I do plan on starting SS payments at 62 myself, but it is based on simple math.

      If you begin SS at age 62, and assuming the payments average a 3% increase in value a year, then you will net more  until you are 82 years old compared to the “normal retirement age” of 65ish. Higher percentages of value increase just extends the time to a later date. So eventually you do begin to lose in total fiat value but what value is that fiat worth as inflation continues? If you delayed payments till age 70 and if you manage to live till age 95 you have only increase your fiat by 7%.  In my opinion it’s not worth taking the chance and delaying.

    • @Cyberspace Void
       
      “If you begin SS at age 62, and assuming the payments average a 3% increase in value a year…”
       
      That would be a faulty assumption.  For the past few years, the annual increase in SS payments has been less than this.  In fact, in 2010-11 the government managed to convince itself that there was NO inflation at all, so did not give ANY COLA in those years.  My last annual increase was a whopping $40 a month or 2.3%, which is about the average COLA from year 2000 through 2014.  While this is definitely better than nothing, it is less than 3% and quite a bit less than real consumer inflation once the realities of living are considered:  such as food, fuel, and taxes which ALL of us MUST pay.
       
      Reference:  http://www.ssa.gov/cola/automatic-cola.htm
       
      One thing that is NEVER mentioned by those supposedly educating the public on when to take SS benefits is this:  if one retires and takes SS benefits at age 62 and then invests the money until their full retirement age, they will virtually always come out ahead of those who waited for those larger checks.  It is almost a universally recommended step to wait for the bigger checks.  My thought is that this is being done as the carrot, hoping that many more people will grasp for it, and (the stick) die before receiving ANY SS benefits.  That would be a lot cheaper for the government, hence the push to make it so.
       
      ” If you delayed payments till age 70 and if you manage to live till age 95 you have only increase your fiat by 7%.  In my opinion it’s not worth taking the chance and delaying.”
       
      They say that those who delay taking SS benefits until age 70 will get an 8% per year raise in their full retirement benefit or about 32% more.  While this is tempting, I agree that inflation will erode this significantly… and one can always die while waiting for those bigger checks.  This sobering reality can be seen in the Obituary column of just about any local newspaper.
       
      I agree that inflation is insidious and also that it is higher than the government states.  Whether one waits for fewer bigger checks or accepts more smaller ones, inflation is grinding away at their benefits and other paper assets… unless, of course, one places a significant amount of their assets beyond inflation’s reach.  We can do this via a long-term savings plan that features silver and gold… and many of us here are doing just that.  We can also do this to some extent via owning reasonably priced homes… not over-priced mansions.  While a home is a long-term investment that keeps up with inflation, it is not something that is guaranteed to be marketable at a convenient time and price in the housing market.  Still, one HAS to live somewhere and owning is usually better than renting… primarily because house payments end but rent never does.
       

    • @Ed_B

      Perhaps I could have stated that better ….

      I did not mean to suggest that SS payments will increase by an average 3% a year, that was the amount I assumed you could earn per year on the payments you received if you reinvested the checks handed out …. the power of compounding does the rest.

      All cost-of-living increases in SS benefits I assumed would be to both those already receiving them and those who delay thus negating any mathematical significance. The real advantage of applying at 62 is that the purchasing power is greater if you take it earlier due to inflation that doesn’t quite agree with “governmental reality” (sarcasm). While my calculations are not fool-proof (too many variables) they do show a reasonable estimate. I can post a sample of the spreadsheet, or email you a copy if you desire, using some example numbers .

    • @Cyberspace Void
       
      “Perhaps I could have stated that better ….”
       
      Perhaps I read something in it that was not intended.  If so, then I apologize.
       
      “All cost-of-living increases in SS benefits I assumed would be to both those already receiving them and those who delay thus negating any mathematical significance.”
       
      I would agree on the math part but was also considering the political aspects of this.  If one is already receiving a Gov benefit, it is VERY difficult politically for anyone in the Gov to come out in favor of taking that benefit away.  There’s just too much political hay to be made by the opposition on something like that.  What likely would happen is that those already receiving benefits would be “grandfathered in” while those not yet receiving them would not be.  They would be closed out of the system, as would younger Americans who do not yet qualify for SS benefits.  I was hoping to avoid being closed out via a means test.  If there is no means test applied when one is paying into this system, then there should also be no means test when one is taking out of the system.  Not that reason has a thing to do with politics, though.  ;-)
       
      “While my calculations are not fool-proof (too many variables) they do show a reasonable estimate.”
       
      I’m sure that they do and I was not arguing against your numbers.  I was only stating the experiences I have had with SS and explaining why I thought it best to apply for benefits at age 62 rather than at my full retirement age of 66 or do the delayed benefit application at age 70.  There are a lot of ways to play this, some involving an individual and others involving the individual and their spouse.  Clearly, there is no one-size- fits-all option in any of this.  Each person must look at all their options and then choose the one that most closely matches their personal financial situation.  Since this is now an irrevocable choice, it pays us all to choose wisely.
       
      All retirement planning comes down to making our best estimates for any number of things.  While these are really just guesses on our part, they should be educated guesses that are made using the best info we have at the time.  Many things are subject to change, however, so none of this is in any way guaranteed.  Still, having a plan… any plan… is better than winging it / having no plan at all.  It does give us some idea of whether or not we are close to achieving our goals.
       
      A few years ago, my plan was to file at age 62, collect a free loan from the Gov for 4 years, disclaim and repay my benefits to that point, and then refile for benefits at the higher rate at age 66.  By carefully investing that money, I was hoping to create a bit of additional retirement funding.  When that fell through, mostly I believe, because of all the attention the various personal finance magazines were giving it, I decided to go ahead and file at age 62 and use the money for some investments and for buying PMs and other preps.  So far, so good.  :-)
       
      The truly maddening thing about SS is that it is widely recognized in DC that the current system is not sustainable.  It WILL run out of money and everyone receiving benefits at that time WILL take at least a 25% cut in benefits.  In spite of this, there are idiots in congress who refuse to make ANY changes in SS that do not make the program even larger and more expensive, meaning that the time we have before it completely runs out of money is even shorter.  Something about “doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result…” ?  This is verified via noting the past several estimates of when the “SS Trust Fund” would be depleted is not only getting shorter but it is getting shorter at an increasing rate.  :-/
       

  7. In the words of Beaver’s father, Ward Cleaver, I cleave myself from being a ward to the state.
     I may belong in a ward but look forward to getting my just Social Security award.
     I don’t plan to give stewardship of myself to the government when seeking my reward.
    Sovereign Economist   Post chasing can be exhaussting
    I call it Blog-ennui. 
     

  8. sovereign economist   I read Holter’s piece about GS being out of meat on the bones.
    Here is what they will do
    They will create a trade that shoves every one of their muppets right into the newest HFT trading system–touting it as the second coming  of Lloyd’s God’s Work— 100% winning trades—see our records —never a losing trade. Of course GS will be doing the lightening trade in exact opposition to the Muppet trades.
     The muppets will pile in because that is what they do when Blankfein gives the” Go Signal” Lemmings all.
    They will be used as cannon fodder when the Mother of all Flash Crashes guts the uber and middling wealthy. Muppets are good for one thing. Light entertainment on TV and feeding the furnace when the market goes cold, shoved into the holes and cracks of a crumbling, tumbling edifice of the ponzi rigged clusterbungle Digi-Fiat equities.
     These muppets will travel on the hopium of the magical Goldman Sachs, like an equities equivalent of Flight 370, 7 hours of fuel, no guidance, fuel dry, then disappearance into the mysterious South India sea.
     In reality the flight goes splat, without a trace.
    Oh, and don’t worry, they’ll have all the bailout money they need because it will be bail-in money from the depositors, not the tax payers. Those plans are on the books, written on tablets of stone and guaranteed to happen when the GS monkeys pull the most colossal HFT trade of all times. They will pull out their guts and eat them, live on WWE Raw.
     They’ll comtinue until the depositors are bled dry and then bang—zoom–back to the tax payers
    No worries everyone,  the maestro has everything under control.
      Splat.

    • Ha!  Mark Faber’s got nothing on you with his “Gloom, Boom and Doom” moniker!!!
      Your forecast sounds just about right…  LOL!
      How about Doom Gloom, Boom and…. BUST!
      What amazes the crap out of me is how muppet mania persists…. Don’t they EVER run out of money?  I mean, you’d think it would be a terminal condition, right??? 
      Just look for Kermit, the Boiling Frog!!!!  Last seen in the French restaurant Goldman’s where the sign says, “Boiled Frog Legs our Specialty!”
       

    • @AGXIIK
       
      ” Muppets are good for one thing. Light entertainment on TV and feeding the furnace when the market goes cold, shoved into the holes and cracks of a crumbling, tumbling edifice of the ponzi rigged clusterbungle Digi-Fiat equities.”
       
      Uh, that would be THREE things!  lol
       
      @Sovereign Economist
       
      “Just look for Kermit, the Boiling Frog!!!!  Last seen in the French restaurant Goldman’s where the sign says, “Boiled Frog Legs our Specialty!””
       
      Yep and right below that is another sign, “All frogs eat here for FREE!“.  ;-)
       
      This reminds me of a cartoon I saw years ago that was an explanation of various national characteristics.  The scenes were of a country road in France.  Three cars separately approach a place along the road where a large snail is oozing across the road.  The 1st car is driven by a very conservative British gentleman who carefully slows his car and swerves to avoid hitting the snail and getting his car soiled.  The 2nd car is driven by a Frenchman who lays down some serious rubber getting his car stopped in time so that he can run out and capture the snail for dinner.  The 3rd car is driven by an American who swerves his car and squashes the snail flat.  A bit of truth in there, for all three, I think.  ;-)
       

Leave a Reply