MM facebook bannerIn this week’s Metals & Markets, Ronald Mann, CEO of DNA Precious Metals joins Eric Dubin & The Doc to discuss:

  • Gold & silver’s anticipated correction likely largely over- look for the metals to rally after the initial cartel smash on next week’s FOMC statement
  • Poland nationalizes retirement funds- a preview of things to come in the US & Canada?
  • Ronald Mann gives an inside view to the relationships between gold & silver miners and the large refiners like Johnson Matthey and Heraeus.
  • The first tailings mine in North America scheduled to come on-line in early 2014- how the tailings method differs from traditional
  • Andrew Maguire reveals CFTC has been sitting on metals manipulation evidence for over 1 year, is the gold and silver market manipulation story about to reach a critical point and go mainstream like Libor manipulation in early 2012, as JP Morgan announces $2.5 B in new litigation reserves?

You won’t want to miss this special MUST LISTEN episode of the SD Weekly Metals & Markets!

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Editor’s Note from Ronald Mann:  DNA “may have” metal sales through Johnson Matthey.  The Montauban Mine was operated as a “silver” /gold mine in the late 1980’s.

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Disclaimer:  DNA Precious Metals is a cash paid sponsor of SD Metals and Markets.  Neither The Doc nor any other member of Doc Investments LLC currently owns or plans to own shares in DNA Precious Metals in the next 14 trading days.  As always, your own due diligence is required before investing in any security.  

  1. All up for tin hat conspiracy theories, damn I sleep with my tin hat on, but come on, the reason why money will move out of precious metals this week and early next week is to liquidate funds to short the stocks, shares and bond markets. Its about shifting money on the hope for a quick slimey buck from doing something so against what stocks and shares are about that I think it should be classed as a crime. Its all about the taper by the Fed. If 15 billion per month leaves the market, they know that the markets should drop. 
    Still doesn’t alter my long game though, let the metals drop to 700 gold and 13 silver pounds respectively, I am in a bullish buy position in physical straight from the LBMA on the first fix Wednesday morning.

    • Love adding at 2009 prices….. While still thinking we will end the year dramaticly higher–can’t say or even see how that will come about. 
      At the moment I’m thinking as peeps begin to digest, “The Affordable Care Act” and start to see how it’s gonna have ’em bending over or paying a penalty….there will be a lot of playing it closer to the vest moving forward.   This should make stacking more ounces easier; Yet still fully expect something to happen  that’ll have us  see Silver spot in the $40 – $44 neighborhood around Christmas.

    • @4 oz well here’s a new mining stock for you good buddy DNAT but I’m not ready yet. Lol You say $40-$44 I say $50-$60. The breaking news story of the Whistle Blowers is going to make the PM’s RISE THIS WEEK. Keep Stacking.

    • Gold won’t go to 700 when the production price is over 1200and change unless insanity sets in. As far as stock market money, the smart money should be on the table by now on the sidelines, nobody can accurately time the market to the downside. High freak traders can dump before the crowd, and a sure downside is coming.

  2. Let’s say it does go mainstream, which, as the Pantene commercial says – “It won’t happen overnight, but it WILL happen” – that’s when Joe six-pack wakes up and says “Holy s**t I’d better get me some silver”. I plan to have my stash in place by the time that happens.

    • Tawnyard, it could even end up worse than that for Bart. The powerful people behind the worldwide financial fraud will stop at nothing to silence whistleblowers and detractors.
      I can only begin to imagine the stress that Bart is under. Any decent person who actually has to weigh between doing what is right, and doing what is expected of him, would have to be eaten up inside. If he does what is right, he may lose his life over it, and if he bows to his masters, he may die from the stress.

  3. Bart Chilton has a ZERO track record for catching crooks.  ZERO! !  Not one!  Not one company has been busted by them.  District Attorneys are doing a better job at catching the banksters.
    Good report by the way.  Gonna listen to it twice.  Just may be the best weekly metal report show.  Get a few Professional Investment Company people like KWN, and you’ll no doubt have the #1 show.
    Oct 8th people.  Everything seems to be coming to a crossroad, in every catagory.  Get off the train NOW.  Cash out into silver, sit along the tracks and wait for the accident and then repair work to begin…

  4. All of the major news outlets are owned by a very small controlling interest and there is article after article about this on the internet.  None of the major news networks will dare even breathe a word about precious metals manipulation or how they are controlled by paper derivatives.  Case closed, let the FIAT printing continue until the wheels come off the system.

  5. One more thing about the GLOBEX.  I’ve noticed on Friday afternoon, after the public market closes, Silver tends to rise.  Now why in the world would JPM allow the price to rise, when the GLOBEX is under their TOTAL CONTROL?  Cause they’re buying.  As quietly as they can.  They got to get long, cause they know the game is almost up. . .

    • JP morgan back to making deliveries as opposed to taking them, they are about 50% of the issuances this month in both gold and silver, proving short positions at least in the front month.

  6. Will China buy up the Worlds Silver to go solar ? JP Morgan is short people say, could China dump the Worthless Mortgage Back derivatives and buy Silver ? what would that do to the price of Silver? can this happen YES!  a luciferian   nightmare   .

  7. I emailed Bart Chilton yesterday with the link exposing the manipulation from the link on KWN. If anything comes out of The CFTC before the deadline investigation ending September 30, it would be a miracle, so I am personally not counting on it.
    I do hope that M45’s prediction comes through for Monday, but still believe the solid foundation for Gold and Silver prices at all time highs is still 2 years away. Way too much corruption and power to fight until Fiat totally collapses.

  8. In their Silver Yearbook 2011, New York-based precious metals consultants CPM Group is calling attention to China’s importance not only as the world’s third largest silver miner but also as a major global silver consumer.
    While Chinese silver mine supply accounted for roughly 16% of global silver mine production last year, CPM Group noted the country was also a major manufacturer of many silver-containing products, such as electronics, solar modules, brazing alloys, and jewelry.
    For the first time, CPM was able to integrate domestic fabrication demand and investment demand statistics for China’s silver market and integrate those statistics into its market economy supply and demand data for this year.
    CPM said it has worked to develop better estimates of silver use in China and developed what it feels are sufficiently reliable statistics on Chinese silver mine production, scrap recovery, and fabrication demand by major industrial category, relying on a network of industry associations and industrial participants in these markets.
    “China’s silver market is roughly three times the size it was in 2000,” CPM noted in its recently published Silver Yearbook 2011. “China is the third largest producer of mined silver in the world. China also is a major consumer of silver, absorbing large and rapidly growing volumes of silver in its electronic manufacturing sector.”
    “Chinese silver mining witnesses significant growth and development in recent years, fueled by technological strides in exploration and an increase in production in response to steady growth in domestic and international demand,” CPM said.
    For instance, CPM found domestic demand for silver has outpaced supply growth. “China was a net exporter of silver until 2006, but became a net importer in 2007.”
    “Chinese investment demand for silver coins and medals began to rise at a double digit pace in 2008, a trend likely to continue as consumers seek to preserve their wealth amid rising inflation in the economy,” CPM forecast.
    The Chinese mine supply of silver totaled 102.7 million ounces in 2010, according to CPM.  More than two-thirds of that output is from silver contained in copper, lead, zinc and gold concentrates. “Consequently, China’s refined silver production has been growing in tandem with base metals output.”
    CPM predicts silver mine production could increase to 104.6 million ounces this year. “China’s silver mine supply is expected to increase over the next few years, driven mainly by production expansions at silver-producing base metals mines.”
    Jiangxi Copper, one of the largest copper producers in China, was also among the biggest refined silver producers with 14.8 million ounces of refined silver in 2010. The country’s total refined silver output in 2010 was estimated at 194.4 million ounces.
    CPM forecast that Jiangxi could produce 15.6 million ounces of silver in 2011. The precious metals consultants estimated Jiangxi has about 341.8 million ounces of silver in proven reserves.
    China could also see more silver producing projects come online in the next two to three years, CPM predicted. Minco’s Fuwan mine is a primary silver mine that would have a production capacity of 5.5 million ounces annually.
    Continental Minerals’ Xietongmen mine could come onstream in 2012 and yield about 1.7 million ounces of silver production annually with 23.7 million ounces of silver reserves.
    “Chinese industrial production expanded at a robust pace in 2010,” said CPM. “In 2010 China’s fabrication demand for silver is estimated to have risen by 10.3% to 153.3 million ounces.
    CPM predicts Chinese silver fabrication demand will rise 15.6% to 177.2 million ounces this year.
    Despite silver price increases, Chinese consumer demand for jewelry and silverware has been strong, CPM noted. “Silver jewelry demand remained steady because it is comparatively more affordable than gold or platinum jewelry.”
    “In addition many Chinese consumers are said to prefer the white color of silver jewelry to the yellow color of gold.”
    CPM estimated 2010 consumption of silver jewelry and silverware was 33.2 million ounces. In 2011, silver jewelry and silverware consumption is forecast to rise 9.6% to 36.4 million ounces.
    In their analysis, CPM noted silver use in electronics and electrical appliances account for more than a third of China’s total silver use.
    “At present China has world-class manufacturing hubs which produce many of the silver-containing electronic components used globally,” said CPM. “Chinese manufacturers have been importing silver materials from overseas in order to meet the high level of technical specifications required in certain high-technology applications.”
    Silver use in electronics in China is estimated to have risen to 59.4 million ounces, CPM said. “In 2011 this is expected to grow 4.9% year-on-year to 63.4 million ounces.”
    Consumption of silver by China’s solar panel manufacturing sector is estimated to have reached 15.4 million ounces in 2010, nearly double that of 2009.
    “Chinese solar panel production is expected to continue to grow strongly on expectations of increased domestic and international demand,” CPM noted. “A tremendous amount of solar manufacturing capacity is expected to come onstream in China in the next couple of years.”
    Demand for silver from Chinese fabciration of solar panels is expected to grow further to 28.9 million ounces this year, up 88% year-on-year.
    China is also a major global producer and consumer of silver-based brazing alloys. It has some of the world’s largest manufacturing facilities for home electronics and electrical appliances, which utilize various type of silver-based solder.
    Silver use in brazing alloys and solder is estimated at 30.5 million ounces in 2010. A further demand increase to 33.1 million ounces is forecast for this year, according to CPM.
    To order the CPM Silver Yearbook 2011, go to The report may be ordered and download

  9. Best update yet and what a great contact in Mr. Mann.  If you have the ability to pull out of him some of the ‘secrets’ of the bulk physical trade that would be great.  We all can track premiums on bullion products, but would love to know if he is seeing big premiums or discounts for bulk metals.  He mentioned a long term contract, would love to know generalities (surely specifics are off limits given publicly traded entity) on pricing on that, based on grade of silver/gold, premium or discount apto an index, and do they base off of comex or other?  
    When prices dropped in April and premiums screamed, it was my opinion that the drop unleashed a buying frenzy in bullion products that outpaced the ability of refiners and mints to produce,  this was proven accurate as premiums came down over time.  We could have known this was the case instantly if we knew whether or not the bulk markets had the same fire.  If bulk markets seeing huge premiums for immediate delivery of bulk silver, then we know there is a real shortage.  If there is no premium in the bulk market then we know mints and refineries have the supply they need and are chewing away as best they can.

    • mikey – good idea.  I’ll keep that in the back of my mind re. Mr. Mann.
      There actually was a form of confirmation coming from the “bulk” market.  It was reported that China was going around, directly pitching mining companies in an attempt to source supply and China was offering premiums. 

    • “There actually was a form of confirmation coming from the “bulk” market.  It was reported that China was going around, directly pitching mining companies in an attempt to source supply and China was offering premiums.”
      I’ve been wondering how long it would be before Western silver producers and Eastern silver buyers got together for some direct sales / buying action.  It makes WAY more sense than the current paper / metals combo markets, especially with paper dominating the price rather than merely reflecting real-world physical metals prices.

    • ” It makes WAY more sense than the current paper / metals combo markets, especially with paper dominating the price rather than merely reflecting real-world physical metals prices.”

      I am not sure I agree with you here Ed, And this is why I’d love to get a sense of what price was locked in on their contract. I am betting it is spot – premium (vs + premium), but being an outsider on bulk physical markets, it’s just an educated guess but as usual am open to being proven wrong.

      See, put yourselves in China’s shoes, they know they can buy futures and stand for delivery and the cost to execute on that is a known event, Price paid for futures + storage charges at warehouse + shipping and insurance + brokerage fees. So, if this is a known event, what motivation is there, as a buyer to go directly to the mine? I can think of two, the first is guaranteed supply, but with the comex inventories near multi year highs a supply is not a legitimate concern, at least in the short term. The second reason you would go to the mine direct would be price, so that would be asking for a lower price than what they can get by executing in the paper markets.

      You heard in his interview that they have a contract locked in with an independent buyer. If metals are anything like grain markets (my background), then a vast vast majority of the commodity is traded peer to peer vs, sourced via comex mechanisms. However, almost all peer to peer participants will be hedging in the comex along the way (part of the reason the leverage appears so huge, # of contracts vs metal in warehouse is legit argument, but many with long futures are going to source their metal in a physical market off the comex and will just liquidate the paper). My guess is that china is looking to cut out the middleman, and that middleman would be the commodity brokerage company that will buy the physical here in N America, get it to port and on a ship and on it’s way to china. Cut that guy out and you’ve captured a bit more that you can put in your pocket.

      A bit long and winding, but my main point is that a vast majority of the metals trade, I believe, is truly peer to peer. This would be a great question that maybe Eric could get out of Mr. Mann on our behalf,

    • “I am not sure I agree with you here Ed…”
      I can live with that.  😉
      Opinions can and will differ on just about everything.  IF PMs are being manipulated in order for national governments to support their very weak fiat currencies, which I find highly likely, then another country, such as China, interfering in their price suppression activities would be most unwelcome.  Yes, China can go through the futures market, buy lots of silver and gold contracts, and stand for delivery… BUT… if they do then their activities will not be a secret and secrecy has great appeal in China.  They will be out in the open, exposed for everyone to see… and Uncle Sam will not be at all happy about it.  In fact, Uncle Sam would likely stick his thumb in a Chinese eye to make that very point.  On the other hand, by dealing specifically with silver and gold producers, particularly through intermediaries, their activities are less likely to attract unwanted attention while still providing the metal tonnages desired.  
      Could I be wrong about this?  Most certainly.  But I sure like the odds on this one.

    • Good argument about secrecy, that is absolutely something they enjoy.  However, the futures market actually adds a layer of insulation as all that is public is the name of the broker… i.e. the company or govt in china could open an account with JP Morgan and all anyone knows is that a customer of JP Morgans took the metal (now that gets my conspiracy wheels turning!). CFTC can dig deeper, but I think we all know how that is going.

      Going straight to the mine eliminates the anonymity, it does not become transparent to the public immediately, but much more so as we have semi credible evidence from mr. dubin that this has happened (i will consider this ‘credible’ when he returns with details, I respect him as a source, but always check the details!)

      Regardless, I am pretty sure that all metals exports have to be reported by country, so ultimately the cat gets out of the bag, just a question of when and how clear the picture is made.

    • Ed, Mikey, it’s not so much secrecy that is of concern, but moving the paper market price.  Take the case of COMEX.  Gold inventories have been falling like a rock.  It wouldn’t take much more additional off-take to really send that market to much higher prices, and maybe even forced cash settlement default.   With silver, inventories are reasonable, but if China wanted to target silver in the way their farmers targeted copper as a store of wealth, the size of China’s dollar reserves vis-a-vis supplies of investment-ready silver worldwide, never mind just the COMEX, is relatively small.
      By orchestrating direct mine relationships, China can avoid to some extent the problem of markets pricing assets “at the margin,” where China’s incremental demand boost would shoot prices higher on the COMEX, but could somewhat be temporarily insulated in terms of price impact when setting-up long-term direct deliveries. 
      There’s no doubt that there’s a certain among of coordination going on between the US and China, even if it’s totally based on each country’s leaders understanding the situation and each, acting in their best interest to not rock the boat.  That’s probably responsible for 90% of the status quote on this issue, with a few meetings here and there to coordinate stuff and put out fires.  For an example of the 10% contingencies, do you remember when the Fed and Treasury nationalized Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac in July, 2008?  The little know backstory behind that move was that China was holding a huge amount of MBS and was seriously pissed off the developing market crash was going to turn their paper to $0.30 on the dollar.  This wasn’t in the NY Times, of course!  But a number of policy makers and people in the know talked about it in some media and small-scale interviews.  I’d have to dig through my records to find it.  But it’s on the net if you search — from reasonable sources too.  China’s pressure was a factor in that sudden policy shift and nationalization of Fannie and Freddy.
      Mining geo. and executive Keith Barron has been in Asia quite a bit this year, and he reported via King World News that he had spoken to Chinese buyers that were making direct deals with mining companies. There has been stories about Chinese buying direct from African-based companies scattered about in Reuters and AFP wire stories.  You can probably find them at google.  I don’t know if I saved them.  But I’ve read other reports as well.   I haven’t found anything with kind of detail that leaped off the page and said, “save me!”  It was all, more or less, speaking to the phenomena in general.

  10. I say JPM is acting on behalf of the Federal Reserve as an Agent. As far as next week FOMC’s release, it is a non event. Same old until 2nd QTR 2014 after the new Fed Chairman’s first few meetings. I still say Rubin will be tapped. What will happen then? Another misdirection cue to be determined at the appropriate time and place. Stock indexes all up double digits…vrooooom

    The very idea JPM is an agency of the FED has been around for years. Here was my source:

    Reality of the great silver squeeze
    Commodity price manipulation is one of the oldest tricks in the financial markets to enrich oneself.
    By Keerthik Sasidharan, Special to Gulf NewsPublished: 00:00 December 15, 2010

    Bernanke steps down end of January 2014. He did his bit. The next Chairman will have his own tptb strategy to implement. You can argue, but the dollar did not crash and their is a mix of inflation/deflation currently. Bernanke won the battle. As long as central banks act as agents for the FED, they can support the stock indexes for the next 6 qtrs and beyond. Fed Chairman Rubin and a Hillary Administration is where the other “if’s” and “shall’s” will come about. I am looking to make bank till the 2 qtr 2014 then reevaluate. As long as JPM is covered to manipulate PM’s, it will be a tough road for China and their BRICS gold plans, and US investors for that matter.

    • “Fed Chairman Rubin and a Hillary Administration is where the other “if’s” and “shall’s” will come about.”
      Man… it would be difficult to come up with a more depressing thought.  🙁

  11. I think it was late last winter or early spring when Bill Murphy kept alluding to something in the works about JPM to come out in the next couple months from that time but he could never give any more info. Others’ memories about this timing are way better than mine I’m sure. Think this is the biggest news about JPM other than maybe their getting out of PMs non-story, so I wonder if this is what Murphy was referring to. Hope these two whistleblowers aren’t driving their own cars around!

  12. The main justification that I consistently hear from those that I communicate with in regard to why Bart Chilton can be relied upon is “Bart Chilton is good at sending emails.”  The main reason, at least according to Andrew Maguire’s most recent interview, that we can now rely on the CFTC to finally do something about metals manipulation is to avoid Bart Chilton being embarrassed. 
    If that is an oversimplification, then where am I off base? If more research is required, how about dozens of fact-based articles written over many years of in-depth research detailing the dealings of the CFTC, not the least of which was the epic footdragging on the swaps definition.

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