It may be time to take the tax hit and withdraw funds from private retirement accounts before they are forced into long term T-bonds.
The Obama administration is reportedly quickly moving on plans to nationalize private 401k and IRA retirement accounts, and replace them with government sponsored annuities(aka Treasury bonds that the Treasury currently can’t sell to anyone but the Fed).
National Seniors Council Director Robert Crone warns: “This whole issue is moving forward very quickly. Already there is a bill requiring all businesses to automatically enroll their employees in IRA plans in which part of every employee’s paycheck would be automatically deducted and deposited into this account. If this passes, the government will be just one step away from being able to confiscate all these retirement accounts.“
All your retirement savings are belong to us:
A recent hearing sponsored by the Treasury and Labor Departments marked the beginning of the Obama Administration’s effort to nationalize the nation’s pension system and to eliminate private retirement accounts including IRA’s and 401k plans, NSC is warning.
The hearing, held in the Labor Department’s main auditorium, was monitored by NSC staff and featured a line up of left-wing activists including one representative of the AFL-CIO who advocated for more government regulation over private retirement accounts and even the establishment of government-sponsored annuities that would take the place of 401k plans.
“This hearing was set up to explore why Americans are not saving as much for their retirement as they could,” explains National Seniors Council National Director Robert Crone, “However, it is clear that this is the first step towards a government takeover. It feels just like the beginning of the debate over health care and we all know how that ended up.”
A representative of the liberal Pension Rights Center, Rebecca Davis, testified that the government needs to get involved because 401k plans and IRAs are unfair to poor people. She demanded the Obama administration set up a “government-sponsored program administered by the PBGC (the governments’ Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation).” She proclaimed that even “private annuities are problematic.”
Such “reforms” would effectively end private retirement accounts in America, Crone warns. “These people want the government to require that ultimately all Americans buy these government annuities instead of saving or investing on their own. The Government could then take these trillions of dollars and redistribute it through this new national retirement system.”
Deputy Treasury Secretary J. Mark Iwry, who presided over the hearing, is a long-time critic of 401k plans because he believes they benefit the rich. He also appears to be one of the Administration’s point man on this issue.
“This whole issue is moving forward very quickly,” warns Crone. “Already there is a bill requiring all businesses to automatically enroll their employees in IRA plans in which part of every employee’s paycheck would be automatically deducted and deposited into this account. If this passes, the government will be just one step away from being able to confiscate all these retirement accounts.”
Please realize that this is 100% about funding $1.5 TRILLION annual deficits using Americans’ retirement funds, as there is simply no other remaining pool of wealth able to soak up $1.5 Trillion in T-bills annually.
If the US government was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would not be a grain of sand remaining in 6 months.
Got PHYZZ??
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Get out why you still can and while you still have something left. Buy physical gold/silver. Take your money out of the banking system. Stop using your credit cards. Starve the beast.
I always withdraw whenever I receive some cash inside my bank account and then use it to buy some physical gold, silver, copper pennies and nickel nickels. I can’t use credit cards because I don’t have one! I have never deposited some dollars inside my account by the way!
“This hearing was set up to explore why Americans are not saving as much for their retirement as they could…”
- - - - - -
Perhaps it is because the ordinary working American’s wages are not keeping up with inflation?
And maybe the reduction in employee benefts are causing people to have to spend more on medical care?
Not to mention the growing number of folks out there who do not have a job.
But WTF do I know, I’m not an economist!
“But WTF do I know, I’m not an economist!”
That’s one of your better features, Mammoth. As to what you know… well, if you know your arse from your elbow, you are light-years ahead of ANY economist. It would be difficult to come up with a less useful profession, IMHO.
I am saving. I’m just not saving into their broken system…….
I was going to say that but, oh well! In the future, this system will eventually crash because more and more people aren’t keeping up with the pace of inflation. Plus, the annual inflation rate is always getting higher and higher.
Here we go again.
Gov Brown just signed Bill 1234, a new law that REQUIRES all employees with 5 or more employees to ‘contribute’ 3% of a worker’s paycheck into Calpers, the largest public pension plan in the country. Calpers is also one of the worst performers, with a deficit of somewhere between 40-60% of its required funding. This extraction of workers paychecks is nothing more than an additional tax to fund a very badly managed pension plan that is solely designed to benefit public employees pension plans. The tax sheeple forced to cough up their wages will never see a dime.
The 3% tax, just a start IMO, is a very public bailout of this pension plan. This plan is California’s equivalent of the Ghillarducci plan passed by the House and Senate about 4 years ago.
The PBGC is broke as evidenced by the news this AM that the The Ding Dong Trust, a union pension plan, is flat broke. Hostess is Toast-ess due to unaffordable union wages and pension plans. 18,000 people will lose their jobs. Half a billion in new unemployment benefits will be paid. There’s a real stimulus program for you.
The PBGC will be forced to make up the losses to this trust No money in the well there. This is a FUBAR of the first order but the federal pension grab is real, the fiscal cliff is real and tax revenues are going to drop like a rock. $6 trillion in private pension plans are up for grabs and nothing will stop these people, short of you taking charge of your plan and bringing it into a safe harbor Got Phyzz?
That’s all I have to say about this today since I don’t want to be accused of hyperbole.
Hell, I think I’m an optimist given this news. And Twinkies? Bummer. Great prepper food. I going to the supermarket and stack the cake!! LOL.
BTW Don’t be surprised if Monsanto buys the Hostess assets and rolls out some brand new GMO surprises. Twinkies? Soylent Yellow. Ding Dongs? Solyent Brown.
And in cooperation with the Department of Homeland Security and FEMA, in 2014 we’ll see Soylent Green.
“The 3% tax, just a start IMO, is a very public bailout of this pension plan.”
If memory serves me, wasn’t the original income tax a tax of 3% placed on all who earned more than $10k per year? As such, it would not have affected all that many people. But, look at it today! Grown by leaps and bounds, just as this one is likely to do.
“That’s all I have to say about this today since I don’t want to be accused of hyperbole.”
Well, if you are, you can always bust out the ESFO&D comment. ;-)
Pensions are now useless today because before the dollars inside the pensions were stable but now, they are losing values which may become obsolete in the future. If only you could use that amount inside the pensions to buy some physical precious metals!
Dying empires do desperate things. Get your money into silver or gold or farmland or something you can hold in your hand.
A dying empire will indeed do all it can do to extract the wealth of its people to keep itself going. It may not happen tomorrow, but it will happen before long. The only way for it not to happen is for the system to crash before we get there.
As I have stated in a earlier post, we will not see the true side of Barak Obama now. He has nothing to run for and no one to answer to but the ones who have owned him since college.
True. But he also has no fear of botching his re-election chances either. That can make him, or any other politician, a very dangerous critter, indeed.
This ought to be the scariest news for any American who holds an IRA or 401k retirement account. To nationalize something means to take over control of something. The US is the biggest debtor nation in the history of the world. With all of this debt, if anyone holding IRAs or 401k’s thinks they will actually see any of this money back at the end of the day, they will be sadly mistaken.
Even worse is the fact that taking over the pension plans is nowhere near enough to pay off the US national debts. If everyone in the US payed 100% taxes on all income for the next decade, it would still not be enough to pay of all of US national debts, counting all entitlements and continued accrual of debt. Does this give people the size of the problem being faced by the US (ie, the debt fiat money system) at this very moment in history?
This news ought to scare every thinking person into action. If it doesn’t, then sadly nothing else will wake the masses up.
@Plebian this is how Socialist Secrity and government controlled (tax exempt) IRA-401k ‘plans’ got started in the first place!
“Although historians do not advertise the fact, a lot of pension funds went bankrupt in the 1930’s, and the remaining ones had to scale back the amounts they had contracted to pay to their pensioners. Economists failed to offer an explanation for this universal phenomenon. Yet the explanation is clear: the accumulated capital of the pension funds was badly impaired, and in some cases completely wiped out, by the falling interest rate structure. Exactly the same causes are operating right now, (2010) and exactly the same effects will follow. The only difference is the larger scale of capital destruction in the present episode.” –Antal Fekete
If the USA wants to lower the rate of its growing debts, the number one thing that they should do is to cut spending on military overseas. To make that happen, they should bring back the troops on the US soils to defend the borders.
AGXIIK, and then there’s the US Postal Service, who is in deep financial doo-doo due to the postal worker’s pension plan and the promises the Postal Service made to its employees. Sorry, but your postage is going to increase to one dollar per letter.
To save money, the Postal Service will require you to just tape a one-dollar bill to the letter you are mailing. And those ‘forever’ stamps? You may as well use the 5,000 that you bought a few years back, to wrap your Christmas presents in, because they will no longer accept these. You didn’t really believe them when they told you those stampw could actually be used forever, did you?
Keep on stackin’!
@Mammoth, it’s noteworthy that folks have long tracked currency depreciation by the Postal Rate proxy (as well as the melt value of circulating coin). That the Postal service is finally on its death bed (in conjunction with dis-continuance of penny and nickel production) is thus a dire bellwether.
Roll that 401k & IRA Over Into An Precious Metals Account. Pay No Taxes and Hold It Yourself. Don’t Place It Into A Vault. Keep your receipts and segregate your IRA metals from your own holdings in different safes.
Net Ranger, Being retired and having no job or employees, I ask do you think my small IRA of 50K is exempt?
Also why would rolling into precious metals be safe, the government can force you to turn your certificates over
to them I would think? I use Scottrade for my IRA and would need to find out if they have that option of
converting to a precious metals IRA. Who do you use or recommend that is totally legit and assures your IRA
account to be redeemable when you want to cash out?
Appreciate your reply.
Ranger from Texas
PS I also have a huge stack of Silver (Eagles) and Gold (Eagles)
I also suppose that the income tax rate would be 28% if I cashed in the total 50K?
Netranger:<<Roll that 401k & IRA Over Into An Precious Metals Account. Pay No Taxes and Hold It Yourself. Don’t Place It Into A Vault. Keep your receipts and segregate your IRA metals from your own holdings in different safes. >>
SERIOUSLY??? I heard that silver IRAs *had* to be stored in depositories. Please state your source on this. Thanks,
Reply
That’s exactly what I’m doing!
I don’t pay taxes on my physical gold and silver purchases and I hold it myself because “if you don’t hold it, you don’t own it”. Pensions are useless today compare to precious metals because they can lose values over time.
NetRanger 808 That is exactly what I did. It worked and my segregated safe in safe at home.
Exactly..AGX…When, I Tell People This. They Blow Me Off. So, We will just wait and see
“These people want the government to require that ultimately all Americans buy these government annuities instead of saving or investing on their own. The Government could then take these trillions of dollars and redistribute it through this new national retirement system.”
Why does this sound so familiar, oh yeah…. it’s what we call “Social Security”. For many years they have blown the soc.sec. funds, it will be insolvent in the future. Might as well toss those 401(k)s on the fire. The dragon must be fed.
I hear you Mammoth. The PO lost $15 billion this year. That’s with a RIF of 300,000. It’s pretty clear that the USPS is a dying industry that will never be able to front run their costs by becoming more ‘efficient’ or gaining more customers. Like 8 tracks (sigh) or VHS, American Motors and Kaypro Computers the Post office is destined for the bone yard. The union pension plan is going to be hurt too since the contribution will drop like a rock.The investment yields will assume the glide ratio of a brick. The wonder world of ZIRP kills every retirement plan and does even greater harm to the government systems since they are not run by honest fellows, just drones who promise 8.5% return to keep their jobs and yet get only 2-3% at best, unless they are totally incompetent and the yield turns negative.
That is the sad state of the state and federal plans and explains the reason for their thirst for our IRAs. The redistribution of wealth appears to start and end at the door of these federalized plans.
And what the heck happened to FHA. They just reported a $13 billion loss and expect that to continue for years into the future. I guess we have to bail them out too.
If there is any real threat to the middle class its not the stock market, malinvestments in housing or pension plans, it’s the steady erosion of net worth and wealth by the perpetual bailout machine of the federal and state governments.
There just one problem with that. Pretty soon they are going to start running out of other peoples money and then where will we be? Right along side the poor folks at Hostess. I am beginning to think that the voracious insatiable black hole of government will actually be able to strip every cent of private citizens net worth and income and still come up with a deficit. I never thought that before, being the optimistic person that I am, but now that thought seems to have some relevance to my thought process.
All big businesses will go out of business soon because of inflation which will destroy their revenues. The government won’t get that much amount of dollars when he starts taxing more from the people since they’ll will lose a lot already. The gap between the rich and the other classes are getting bigger and bigger.
By God I’m glad I bought out my retirement when I moved to Maine. Lot’s of people said I was crazy but I wonder now who will have the (and sad to say) Last Laugh. Keep Stacking.
“when I moved to Maine”. Jeezus, Marchas45, what are you a MOOSE? LOL. Find me a place that has an ACRE of split wood stacked and I will join you!
I agree with AGXIIK’s statement that 401k and IRA’s will become nothing more than an additional tax. Once the feds get their hands on your retirement you wont be able to withdraw any of it with out huge penalties if at all. We can now wrap these promises in to that category of promises to print. With all the recent talk of secession described as group or state movements we forget the actions we as individuals can take to secede from this system. One of the easiest things we can all do is withdraw all of our IRA 401k money, empty our savings and leave only what we need to pay bills in our checking. This is something YOU CAN DO. Vote with your dollars by exchanging them for tangibles and secede from this fraudulent monetary system
Yes, we can do that but if we are not VERY careful, the tax hit will be hideous. I understand that half of something is better than all of nothing but we still do not know whether or not this IRA / 401K / 403B / 457 grab will occur at all. Getting this through the House could be a real game stopper for the Dems.
You are right! That’s what I always do whenever I receive some dollars in my bank account. I empty all the dollars inside it except for 20$. I have never deposited any cash inside my account. I think cash is better because it makes your purchases anonymous and you can keep track of your purchases.
Precisely what BJF stated yesterday in his Silver Update here http://www.silverdoctors.com/silver-update-president-obama/
I stand by what I said. Has Pat gone to ground ?
@clambake in the ‘Silver Update’ thread, my post was a response to BrotherJohnF … not a reply to your post. You may have got that impression simply because of the sequence.
As soon as pensions drop below 100% mark to market funded, they become another ponzi. Pensions should be eliminated and individuals should be responsible for their own investment for retirement. When your money is tied up in these instruments, your money is used by the monopolists against you. if you invest in bio-agriculture, your investing in the Monsanto death cult. invest in utilities and you’ll never see free energy technology come to the market. Stop investing in your enslavement. It’s like investing in corrections corp and then going out and smacking a cop.
I still don’t have any pensions so I don’t know if I am allowed to take the dollars inside the pensions out if I ever have a pension. I mean we should be allowed because it is our hard earned dollars so we decide how to use them and not the government.
The National Seniors Council is a right wing Washington Lobby Group, that gets much of their funding through targeted direct mail intended to frighten seniors into parting with their money. This story, and most anything else they have to say, has zero credibility, yet it is presented here as newsworthy… hmmmm.
Sounds like the same game plan that is used by the leftists at AARP.
@SRV
@The Doc
@Indenturedservant
Well doc it seems like a few on this thread pay attention and do there own research. I just have to ask why do you put up old news as new? I know how messed up this whole country/world is and things have come to pass that I never thought would. But I like to read honest current news to find the facts so everybody here at SD stays one step ahead of calamity.
Post like this pull all of our attention away from something else that could be important next week! Things I look for in post like this is the validity of it. Lets take the statement here>> “This whole issue is moving forward very quickly,” warns Crone. “Already there is a bill
Well were is the bill thats what I look for to validate stories like this. Also since this story is over two years old it’s not moving quickly at all…
l
@SRV, actually the story itself has plenty of credibility and is largely true. Public meetings between the Dept of Treasury and the Dept of Labor have been held on the subject. These were broadcast live on the net and CSPAN I believe and the minutes of those meeting have been archived online.
The last I heard was that they are trying to determine how not if they plan to get their hands on the money. It seems that it will be a voluntary thing at first accompanied by loads of propaganda selling it to the sheople as the greatest thing since sliced bread and encouraging everyone to sign up. Once the propaganda wears off, it will become mandatory for those making more than a certain amount of money per year and sometime later it just becomes law and all the stragglers will be rounded up and enrolled. Our money will be replaced by Treasuries and mandatory payroll deductions will be made for those still working.
Trouble is, the DEMS don’t want it to happen on their watch. Actually they don’t care except that it might make them look bad so they would prefer that the mean old GOP be in power so that they take the heat for it but the GOP feels the same way. IMO, my negative ass expects to see it happen as an “emergency Executive Order” signed by which ever puppet resides in the WH at the time. It has been about two years since any new news has been reported on the subject but talks have been happening off and on for at least 5 years.
I_S
“It seems that it will be a voluntary thing at first accompanied by loads of propaganda selling it to the sheople as the greatest thing since sliced bread and encouraging everyone to sign up.”
Like many real Americans, I make and slice my own bread! lol
If this happens, perhaps we can use it as our tripwire to remove any and all assets that we can from these retirement accounts before all this B$ lands on them and us.
The Federalized pension plan converts the 401K and IRAs into annuuities. Annuity is anold latin word. Loosely translated it means—Government ponzi scheme designed to steal the people’s money. In reality the Federal annuity plan offers a yield that was to be about 3% but with the new ZIRP 10 year treasury yield, that annuitized income stream will come in at under 2%, much like the post it note Social Security Trust Fund which now yields about 1.53%. Unlike IRAs which can be willed to the next generation or even donated to a charity, the residual proceeds of your IRA converted to an annuity is shared 50/50 between your heirs and Uncle Sam’s heirs. In other words, after you get an absolutely terrible yield from the gummint while you are alive,far lower than the FED-BS inflation rate, 50% of the money you placed in your IRA or 401K reverts to the government when you enter Condition Dead. These are the real rules, the ones voted on 4 years ago when Princess Pelosi worked with Ghillarducci to craft this POS redistribution of wealth plan under the Obama regime. At least we are not Argentinians Christina just took $30 billion lock stock and barrel from the private pension funds of these people
Give it some time, AG. They’ll get round to it and then probably make $30B look like peanuts. :-(
If that’s the case, then I’m glad that I still don’t have a pension!
Although, most of the future generations may not have enough time to store their savings in pensions because the system will collapse by then which is good since they won’t have that much losses. It’s the older people who would suffer the most after the collapse.
This article was originally posted in October of 2010 so don’t get too fired up yet. It’s good that people are aware of this but don’t panic. This has been discussed for years and I have no doubt it will ultimately be implemented.
I_S
Perhaps there is still time for some sort of best compromise action? By removing, say 10%, from a retirement plan each year and converting that to gold and silver, it might be possible to hang onto our money while minimizing the oppressive tax bite. Think that the current system can survive intact for the next 11 years? Maybe… and then again, maybe not. Other ideas besides bolting and running?
I would bolt and run. King Obama will issue another of his “decrees” instead of waiting for congress to act.
This is pure socialism and it will start the breakup of the United States. People are not going to be happy with this added on top of social security.
I saw this coming 5 months ago and convinced my wife to withdraw the max amount allowed from her 401(k), which was a little over $20,000. I could care less about the taxes, etc… and with that money I bought a crap load of “junk” silver, a year supply of storable food and, and the most precious metals of all…. lead and brass. I told my friends to do the same and they said that I was paranoid and crazy….
Yep, you certainly are. But then, we all are UNTIL the S really does HTF. Then, we will be freakin’ geniuses. lol
Exactly! Ed_B is right also! I also kinda wish that this system could crash as soon as possible so that we can prove everyone around us that we were right all along while they were wrong. The sooner this system crashes, the less we are going to be suffering.
From mid 2011 when Ann Barnhardt started talking about our money not being safe, Doc told us if you don’t hold it you don’t own it all the way through the SDIRA, I studied up on converting our IRAs to phyzz. In early 2012 I got a little freaked about the world situation, the rehypo risks etc etc and blinked, converting aabout 25% of my IRA into phyzz, breaking the piggy bank. Being over 59 and a half there were no penalties and NV income tax is -0-, the tax hit was acceptable. It was about 20%. I “Adjusted” my business income and dailed it to a loss by shifting income into 2013 (work in process) and ramped personal deductions to weigh more heavily this year. My CPA gave the Good Bookkeeping seal of approval.
The two mistakes I made included blinking in fear of something bad happening early this year and not waiting for the SDIRA completion. Other than that I have not looked back.
Maybe we have 2012 and 2013 to take funds out, providing the penalties are not too dear. On the other hand if you believe phyzz will double and is safe n your hands, then the decision is clear. I trust no one in government, brokerages or banking today.That’s just the way I think today. I’m a misbegotten cross between the Grinch and a curmudgeon. Maybe I read too much into this, hyperbole notwithstanding, but if someone tells me a hurricane is coming, I plan ahead. I think we might have a window of a year or so before Europe and the Dow take their respective dumps. Like Hemingway, or maybe it was George Carlin, said, events tend to move slowly until they start moving very fast.
It’s also kinda the same thing for me. Between November 2011 to April 2012, I was really worried that this system might collapse so I bought a lot of silver at high prices during that time. It’s because of these purchases that I have a lot of losses but they aren’t that bad and I don’t care about the losses that much.
“Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.” –5th Plank of the Communist Manifesto
Those who STILL think of Plantation Scrip as ‘money’, compensating them as ‘wages’ or ‘payment’, are sadly deluded. The ‘money’ imagined to be ‘saved’ is nothing more than government credit units ‘marked to make believe’. It is the ‘intellectual property’ of banks in which they retain Title In Equity. Thus, so-called ‘retirement accounts’ are in fact merely unsustainable claim to possession grounded on inferior Title At Law. Establishment of this Plantation Scrip illusion sets the stage for …
“Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.”
I’ve been pointing out for many years, that the world’s governments have been incrementally devolving the Social Order back to Feudalism, wherein all Title is under the State (Kings and Nobles), conditionally granted to Serfs through oaths of subjection and perpetual demonstration by yielding up of any ‘tax’, or tribute, demanded … because At Law as In Equity, ‘they’ are … Entitled to it!
The rich class doesn’t want that the middle and the poor classes to become rich, to be in prosperity with liberties, freedoms, peaces, etc. So, the elites make the governments all corrupted to take over the world again. Then, they will go back to the Feudalism which will mark the second Dark Age.
No surprises. The Marxist stays true to its nature.
@silverbullion … the political reality isn’t a ‘left-right’ proposition. The ‘right’ guy was never SUPPOSED to ‘win’. The ‘left’ guy was rigged to ‘win’ because terrible things are PLANNED to be NECESSARY so that all-powerful governance can continue to expand. The Punch and Judy Puppet Show is calculated to encourage people to have affinity with one or the other ‘side’, when IN FACT those ‘sides’ are simply the hands of a SINGLE puppeteer … government.
‘Marxism’ is the invention of Monarchists to restore their families to ‘Rule’ over humanity as their ‘subjects’ again. The ruse is to engineer all Title to things back under The State. That sets the stage for Kings and Nobles to assume the ‘right’ persona, which The Peoples will ingratiate themselves to. Under the deprivations and betrayals of the ‘Marxists’, the Royals will seem as ‘Saviors’.
“In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” –Thomas Jefferson
@Patfields True.
Chains? What chains? – Harry Houdini
Please read this article. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/business/another-fumble-by-the-sec.html
Mr. Steffelin, who worked for a financial firm that advised JPMorgan on the deal, was formally charged on June 21, 2011. But on Friday, in a rare public about-face, the S.E.C. asked Judge Miriam Goldman Cedarbaum of Federal District Court in New York to dismiss the charges against Mr. Steffelin with prejudice, meaning the case can’t be refiled.
Now, if Mr. Steffelin is going to emerge as a “poster child” for anything, it will be as a victim of regulatory overreach.
“It’s very unusual and unusually embarrassing for the S.E.C.,” said John C. Coffee Jr., a professor at Columbia Law School and an expert in securities law.
@NetRanger808 good spot …
What caught my eye was … “The S.E.C. said such decisions take months of deliberations at many levels, but it may not be coincidence that it took until this week, after the elections, for the S.E.C. to move to dismiss the charges.”
What a load of crap THAT is. The entire sequence of events has ACORN stamped all over it in big red letters. I’m surprised a gaggle of ‘protestors’ didn’t show up in front Steffelin’s house (or did I miss something?).
Also, the ‘embarrassing about face’ can well be an intentional ploy to wreck ‘precedence’, so all further cases would be ‘tainted’. Again … POST ‘election’, a la ACORN.
Ranger I checked with my accountant earlier this year and cashing in a part of my IRA in 2012 my tax rate would be about 12% after deductions. if you no income in 2012 that $50,000 should barely register on the tax scale. If you are over 59 and a half there is no penalty If you are less than that you may be able to get a hardship exemption. $50,000 will buy a nice stack of silver at these prices 1,500 oz. trading that when prices go up will be profitable, particularly if you keep it under the tax radar.
We took about 20% of our 401K out. If master BHO nationalizes retirement plans I wonder if that will still need to be repayed.
With 50,000$, you can buy 1,500 ounces of silver or about 27.03 ounces of gold. I would use a part of this amount of dollars to also buy some gold because it is hard to buy some per ounces. 1,500 ounces of silver look kinda bulky and good luck moving that much amount very fast during SHTF!
Does anyone know where I can transfer my IRA into a precious metals IRA that is not corrupt or a thief and backed
by physical Gold, Silver, etc, with a legitimate certificate held in hand for redemption? I am aware that that type of IRA
account exists, but as well know that there are a multitude that hold paper only.
My Scottrade IRA does not offer a precious metals IRA.
Your reply is appreciated.
Ranger from Texas
Try NAFEP’s IRA LLC. It will cost about $2000 and may take a couple months of back and forth paper-shuffling before you can buy metal, but you can take delivery without taking a tax hit. When the government issues the confiscation order, YOU make THEM eat worthless certificates.
Any fund with administrators or metal in America is just setting up easy one-stop shopping for government thieves. I don’t advise letting anyone else hold the metal. If you insist, the best horse in the glue factory would probably be physical PSLV share certificates (if you can still get them from the DTCC). The fund could still be looted by that buttlicking NWO stooge Stephen Harper, or it might be vulnerable to some JPM shell company redeeming the metal after buying shares that JPM shorted out from small investors’ ordinary trading accounts. I don’t know for sure if this is possible and I have never gotten a straight answer on this question.
All I had to do was roll over my 401K and it allows me to trade any stock the only catch is I’m not sure about the certificate in hand. For a good safe Phyzzzz investment I did the research and really like Eric Sprott’s Physical trust.
http://sprottphysicalbullion.com/sprott-physical-silver-trust/
echofoxtrot Earlier this year I went through the entire process of setting up the SDIRA with Jeff Berwick representative Ken Johnson. The SDIRA was discussed in huge detail at that time as I went through this lengthy process to create the LLC, bank accounts, SDIRA ficudiary Suntrust Bank and personal storage to hold the phyzz. Doc and I discuss the IRS code subsection that spoke the specifics of where to store the metals once purchased. The code was written with some interpretations that gave us the safe harbor that we could use our segregated bullion safe at our home. One could interpret the storage two ways but what I read was a holder of an SDIRA could use a personal safe in order to comply with the regs. This was also indicated in TDV system too. I chose to go with the interpretation that I could hold it personally “Doc’s Rule #1 If you don’t hold it you don’t own it” The alternative is a Safe Deposit Box. We have one for this purpose and hold a small amount of phyzz and the paperwork for these SDIRAs. While it would not be for everyone and most SDIRA firms don’t like to even touch these system since they run so close to violating the IRS rules, we plan to follow the rules 100% and comply with the legal aspects of the SDIRA.
I believe we are in safe harbor and no one in the chain of command that assisted us with this process suggested otherwise
We also made the decision knowing that should this be challenged we would still have a significant amount of resources to manage the tax costs should the IRA disagree. Some will disagree with me but after reading the IRS codes my decision was easily made.
A couple of other thoughts. I’ve studied this extensively for over 2 years ever since the Ghillarduci rule was voted in place by Congress in 2008. It became abundantly clear that with the Collectivists in power for another 4 years, the slow moving train wreck would speed up. Like Portugal Spain and Argentina in the last year, each trying to bail out their fiscal problems with personal private pension expropriation to the tune of $ tens of billions, we are also on this path of US debt damage and the lack of markets to buy this debt. It appears that when our little friends in the pension pits start talking about ‘rich people’, ‘redistribution of pension plans’ and ‘financial fairness’ these plans have a tendency to accelerate in pace as the fiscal cliff approaches. Maybe it won’t happen if cooler heads prevail but I am not optimistic. Better to be 1 year early than 1 month late.
Thanks very much, AGX.
AGX, thanks again. In looking at the IRC section 408(m), the last section reads:
(B) any gold, silver, platinum, or palladium bullion of a fineness equal to or
exceeding the minimum fineness that a contract market (as described in
section 7 of the Commodity Exchange Act, 7 U.S.C. 7) requires for
metals which may be delivered in satisfaction of a regulated futures
contract, if such bullion is in the physical possession of a trustee
described under subsection (a) of this section.
Notice how the code section mentions BULLION (but not COINS) having to be in the physical possession of a trustee!!!
If I recall correctly, Jeff Berwick spoke on Friday at the Silver Summit I attended in Spokane. He spent quite a bit of time talking about the time he has spent in the back of police cars, decrying the hoops he had to jump through to visit titty bars and he complained about govt rules and laws against smoking weed among other things. He came across as an irresponsible party boy who has no respect for authority at all. It was a very odd, rambling talk. Perhaps he smoked too much weed while at the titty bar he traveled to in Idaho the night before?
I had heard about SDIRA’s through Silver Doctors and I am considering setting one up but if Mr. Berwick is advising or having anything to do with setting these up, I might have to pass. Can you clarify his involvement in the process?
Is Silver Doctors advising or coordinating the set up of SDIRA’s?
I could be 100% wrong about Mr Berwick and am willing to concede that but based on the one talk I heard him give and my & others reaction to it, caution is warranted IMO.
I_S
So that’s how long and how hard it is to just redeem your savings in dollars inside these pensions. If that’s the case, then I would never apply for a pension and instead, I will always keep my savings in physical gold and silver.
And yet, AG, even with the US $6T that is in retirement plans, the government cannot even pay the annual deficits for more than 4 years. What happens then? Do you suppose that any of these corn-ball lefto-communists have thought the matter through that far? It would be one thing if doing that solved all of our national financial problems but all of us here pretty well know that it will not. It only delays the inevitable by a few years and THEN the whole mess implodes anyway and none of us would have retirement resources to fund our “golden years”. Such a deal! :-(
Ed B Only $6 trillion and only 4 years. So little money and so much time.
That is the sad part.
Once this mother load of capital is extracted by the gummint I fear it won’t last even 4 years. Like an junkie, a sudden windfall of crack, heroin, booze or money is reason for celebration and a bender of heroic proportions. That will be gone before the lights go out.
Imagine how the collectivists and kleptocracts could ’invest’ our money before the funds run out. I am sure they will create a perpetual motion machine to match the perpetual cash machine. Green energy? Heck they’ll probably find ways of turning water into gasoline, find Amelia Erhardt’s resting place and Elvis’s hideout. Or maybe just another war or two to finance. There are lots of places that haven’t experienced Pax Americana yet. Pretty glum thoughts but surrealists can conjure up almost anything if there’s enough of someone else’s money.
I kinda hate when the government delays the inevitable collapse because by doing that, more people will be suffering from inflation so instead, the government should already let the collapse happen so that the sufferings from inflation would be gone. But I also like it when the collapse is delayed because that way, I’ll have more time to prepare against it.
echofoxtrot I noticed the specific type of phyzz that can be included in an SDIRA. If I recall the rules, Bullion meant American silver and gold eagles. It did not include junk bullion (coins) rounds, ingots or bullion of another nation like Canadian Maple Leafs. I bought the American bullion to be sure I complied with that element. BTW, I went heavy on gold mainly due to the fact that it is easier to transport and conceal should our friends with the salad on their shoulders come looking.
Exactly! We should also buy some physical gold because it stores a lot of our purchasing powers on a small space. We should also buy some physical platinum because its above ground supplies are getting lower like silver. Platinum has a high premium by the way!
Thanks, AGX. You mentioned that you had your SDIRA LLC drawn up by Jeff Berwick. Isn’t he a Canadian? If so, can he do the legwork on a USA IRA? Thanks again.
echofoxtrot coincidentally Ijust checked my email after my last post to you and Jeff had a pretty solid post about the looming threat to our private retirement programs If the Fiscal Cliff or the Debt Limit Ceiling present a major problem, particularly if we get a national rating downgrade, this might prove to be a tipping point to force the government’s hand and start the process of expropriation I’m not predict when it will happen but the legal apparatus is in place
echofoxtrot. Jeff moved to Acapulco and set up The Dollar Vigilante. I think he is Canadian but now he’s PT (Permanent tourist) expat. His firm hired Ken Johnson to work the SDIRA business but Ken is now heading up the new Peru Galt’s Gulch project. They still offer the SDIRA I think If you Google TDV or The Dollar Vigilante you can connect with that group.
echofoxtrot one last thing. On Doc’s favorite reads, Silver for the People, connects to a set of posts. Jeff Berwick’s post about the Dollar Vigilante’s position regarding government extraction of private retirement programs is presented there You can connect with TDV from that point.
AGX, thanks so very much for all your helpfulness!!
We already have this in Canada, lol.
We do? I did some research and indeed you are correct! I’m lower than 18 years so pensions aren’t still mandatory for me.
I gotta hate the day when I’m forced to save up for retirement and pay income taxes. 
I will never sell my gold and silver that I’ve earned during my childhood to pay taxes because for me, it signifies that the government is also taxing the kids.
@Sumkid … thoughtful, honest young fellows like yourself ought to seek out old folks in your area, who are ‘liquidating’ their silver and gold savings for their living expenses. That relationship can become far more valuable to you both, in more ways than the obvious exchanges at ‘spot’, your ’trade’ of knowledge and current information will form into ties of friendship that can never be purchased at ANY ‘price’ and set the pattern for your own plans in those feeble years.
Indentured Servant You are right about Berwick to the degree that he likes alcohol and adult pharma. But his team’s done the research on the SDIRA He has a small group headed by by Ken Johnson that started the SDIRA. I was one of the first 20 to do this since I felt I had nothing to lose. Either convert to phyzz and take the hit of 6 figures in taxes or thread myself through the worm hole. It worked and Ken was very conscientious.
As for Berwick, I think sometimes his hardon for authority, rules, regulations and anything that cuts into his drinking time is worth kicking in the nuts. I concur with issues with authority but don’t go out of my way to prove the theory that if the cops want to hook you up they will bring enough to get the job done.
I subscribe to the TDV premium service as his channel offers several things that strike my interest like SDIRA, second passports, getting phyzz out of dodge and his project in Peru for expats. Not that I plan to leave but the knowledge is worth the price. I share this info with others too.
Don’t judge a book by its cover since Jeff did his homework and my studies prove his system has merit. There is still a paper trail to my safe but gold is really portable and my getting out of Dodge is handled in my own way.
You might want to check it out and see if it works for you.
BTW TDV SDIRA was the third of three sources By investigating the first two,seeing their weaknesses, the TDV SDIRA proved it mettle. Jeff is a disciple of Doug Casey and if Casey considered Jeff a worthy ally, that gave Jeff a great deal of credibility in my eyes.
I’d like to meet Jeff some time and see if his ability to absorb alchohol is as good as mine. that would be a final test. lol
So, I can’t decide how a part of my dollars that I’ve earned should be invested, saved and used due to the bill that requires all businesses to automatically enroll their employees in IRA plans in which part of every employee’s paycheck would be automatically deducted and deposited into this account. This has gone too far! It’s my dollars so I decide how it should be used to help me, not the government!
Somekid If the govenment wants to automatically enroll you in a 401K it’s because they want to steal what you put in!
Rockets Red Glare. Taking 20% out of your 401K and paying the taxes etc, means that 20% is your to do with as you chose. I think the counter to that is if you remove it and replace it in 60 days or borrow it with the intention of paying it back. Failing to replace the withdrawal within 60 days or failing to repay a loan to your 401K I believe represents a withdrawal. But as to BHO considering a loan to you needing to replaced so the Ghillarduci GRA can be forcibly put into place is a good question that can only be seen in time. Borrowing from your 401K, buying phyzz and paying back with depreciating dollars seems like a good plan.
It does have to be payed back @4% but with real inflation running at 10%-11% it’s still a good deal! As soon as I pay it back I’ll do it again and again.
Sumkid, I understand why you would just like to have the crash over and done with. But know when it happens it will be terrible for SO MANY. Don’t be in to big a hurry because since you are awake to what is happening you also understand that the longer it takes the more time for you to prepare! There isn’t much you can do for those others that are not getting ready. But this extra time we have is precious!