Comments

  1. There was a lot of talk about self directed IRA’s on SD in 2012.  I have a 401K from a previous employer that was not rolled over and left it there for a reason since I don’t want it mingled with my current employers 401K. 
     
    So it’s a free standing 401K (It’s in Fidelity).  I really want get this into a self directed IRA and curious who else has done this and can give me advice on what company or service to use in order to make this happen.

    • I’m in the same boat. AGXIIK has a good article on SD about it, but you’ll have to search for it. Also the web has some pretty good articles on how to do it. Good luck! 

  2. Oh No! we are in the Doldrums again! Another distraction!

  3. We all must be patient while Gold and Silver continue to reconsolidate OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND …………. 

  4. ty AGXIIK

  5. Anything to Wake up the Hive.

  6. Is the Spanish “Social Security Reserve Fund” the same as the US Social Security system ?  
     
    If so, what’s the big deal…..US lawmakers robbed the Social Security fund decades ago, and left it with a filing cabinet of IOUs.
     
    I do think the US will go after IRA and 401k money at some point, but I don’t think one can use the Spanish raid as proof of that.
    Doesn’t matter to me either way…..took my IRA money out years ago, paid penalty and taxes, and bought silver at 6.50/oz.  I sleep fine at night.

  7. Our 401k has us roped and tied. Plan B– silver and more silver!

    • Same here; we can’t do anything but borrow half of it. Even if we paid taxes and penalties, we can’t have it without ending employment. Another scam where we’re told OUR money isn’t really ours.

    • Xactly: I pay it month to month @ 4%. Inflation it’s at least 10%. Lies not withstanding!

  8. Is this it? Our world destroyed over these little Pacific Islands? England has twice wrecked the world over islands! It’s Islands. Are these to be the death of humanity as England chokes on its arrogance, as it’s fiat banking empire crumbles? Drags the world into war once again from behind a curtain? London owns Wall Street. Wall Street owns the Fed and the U.S. government by proxy. They established the central banking systems in Eroupe, North America & around the globe. War, counterfeit money and drugs are their most profitable products, their only products.When you trace it all back to the source, we always end up in London!

  9. The world of fiat money operates differently if you control the printing press and you are the world reserve currency.  Spain gave up their printing press when they adopted the Euro.  Big mistake!  The U.S. has the printing press, has reserve currency status, and has the military to back it up. The rules apply differently here. 
     
    Comparing Spain to the U.S. is really an apples to orange comparison.  The U.S. taxes us not to raise money, but rather to control us.  Spain taxes it’s citizen’s to raise money and to control them. 
     
    The U.S. can never default on debts denominated in U.S. dollars.  It’s impossible. 
     
    Spain would be better off to exit the Euro, go back to the Peseta(their currency up to 2002), default and devalue.  Then they will recover.  But, in Euro-land like here it’s not about recovery it’s about control.
     
    Technically speaking U.S. Treasury bond auctions have failed for several years now, but you don’t notice because the Fed steps in through its agents and keeps the bid up driving down interest rates.  How long can they do this?  A lot longer than people think.  The key with fiat money is to keep expanding the total supply of money and credit.  It really doesn’t matter if it’s government spending or consumer spending, just so long as it’s spending.
     
    Ultimately, with the fiat U.S. dollar it’s a confidence game.  And as long as the public has confidence that the dollar has value we’ll be get by. 
     
    Inflation is the increase in the supply of money and credit, not rising prices.  Deflation is the opposite.  Both forces are happening simultaneously, thus the volatility.  
     
    The purpose of gold and silver is to protect us from the day when confidence is lost.  That is on the horizon.  History has cycles of appx 72yrs between major turnings.  We are looking at what some have called the Fourth Turning or a Kondratieff Winter.  Best advice is to prepare now while you can.

    • “The U.S. can never default on debts denominated in U.S. dollars. It’s impossible. ”
       
      Actually, I disagree with that.  The government does more than roll over debt.  It also has to buy things, pay bills, etc.  Once inflation gets out-of-hand and people start pricing in the expectation of future inflation, it’s game over.  Then you have hyperinflation and they can’t print it fast enough to keep up.  Default becomes inevitable.

    • A U.S. default comes only when the world loses confidence in the dollar and will not accept dollars as payment for goods and services.  True hyperinflation is caused by a loss in confidence in a currency.  U.S. can always satisfy any debt denominated in U.S. dollars with the printing press. 

    • Excellent points U-dog.

    • “A U.S. default comes only when the world loses confidence in the dollar and will not accept dollars as payment for goods and services.”
       
      Now… tell us that TPTB in the US are not working hard to cause that.  Never mind their words, just focus on their actions.
       

  10. I don’t think there’s much chance of a failed bond auction. I believe the FED is currently directly or indirectly buying up virtually all of the Treasury bonds being sold now already. Of course, while this prevents bond auction failure and forces interest rates down, the end result is hyperinflation. I agree with the author that IRA and 401k confiscation is likely, simply because our out of control government is spending way, way, way beyond its means and IRA’s and 401k’s represent a large amount of wealth sitting around just waiting for confiscation. When the poop hits the fan and banks start failing and union pensions and government pensions all start failing, our government will view those IRA’s and 401k’s with greedy eyes and talk about protecting us with GRA’s and fairness.

  11. You got it Ugly Dog.  90% of the Treasury bond auctions are being bought by the Fed.  Wouldn’t it be a laugher if the Fed sed ‘No Mas’  No more of your junky stuff.  Window is closed.  Well, maybe not funny—more like ironic.
    I just spoke to my legal beagels, paying the annual service fee to keep our SDIRA’s legal and in compliance with the IRA.  We are about 8 months into the used of the LLCs and the SDIRAs and have not had any nastygrams from the IRS.  My fingers are crossed that the system holds. If anyone is interested I can give a quick overview of what we set up last year using the SDIRA to hold our physical based IRAs at our home.
     The State of CA sent a letter to my old address in California which is being  forwarded to us.  The buyer of our home in San Diego got this missive.  I have a sneaking hunch the state is  trying to track me down since we moved to the tax haven of Nevada in 2009.  The tax goon squad of CA are probably trying to find some money from me.  Rumor has it if someone goes expat from California the franchise tax board will try to prove the tax cows of Taxachusetts West are not legitimately gone from the land of fruits and nuts.  More later on that.

    • Glad to hear you are staying on top of the legal aspect of SD-IRA’s.   Unfortunately the IRS can do whatever it wants to regardless of the legal white papers one has asserting to the legality of a tax deduction.  Experienced that first hand from the IRS.  Stay below their radar.    Keep the SD-IRA low key, in house, and in the ‘cone of silence’.

    • “We are about 8 months into the used of the LLCs and the SDIRAs and have not had any nastygrams from the IRS.”
       
      OK, that’s a good start… but… do let us know IF you hear from them AFTER they get a look at your 2012 tax return.  THAT will be when they will make their move, if at all.  With luck and good planning, you will be fine.  Hope so.  Would like to try the same route but am not 100%… maybe 99%… sure that this is acceptable and will work.  
       
      Also, if the Gov gets an attack of even stickier fingers regarding IRAs and other retirement money, how will having PMs in your possession discourage them from gathering it up along with all the other retirement money out there?  Would having it inside a trust be possible and, if so, of any value?
       
      On a different but related topic… there are some stringent reporting requirements for money moved or held outside the US by American citizens these days.  Forms must be filled out and filed to track it, etc.  Anyway, one way to bypass this could be to buy property outside the US since, at the moment, property is not tracked for this purpose.  This is an area that could offer considerable benefits to anyone wanting to move money off shore without attracting greedy eyes and sticky fingers.  It is complicated, though, so much research and GOOD legal / financial advice is strongly advised.
       
      Finally, terrific article, AG… as usual.  Thanks much for the grocery cart FILLED to the brim with brain-food!  :-D
       
       

  12. Don’t want to look to Spain for a vision of what’s to come?  Look at what the US government did when they hit the debt ceiling.  They raided the government pension system.  Or look at 1933, they confiscated privately held physical gold!  When the shit hits the fan, they will take whatever they need to retain power from you!  Get whatever you can get out of their system now while you still can.  Convert to hard assets with a plan and means to protect it and your loved ones.  A parasite will kill its host if needed in a desperate attempt to survive.

    • “A parasite will kill its host if needed in a desperate attempt to survive.”
       
      Man, isn’t that the truth, even when the death of the parasite is both obvious and inevitable.  It’s just not gonna “go quietly”.

  13. Let’s dicuss the following: Basill3 rules for banks extended 4 more years, the debt ceiling rangle coming up, Treasury Bonds, the National debt, China, Japan, the Eurozone, failure of the derivatives market and the comez and other economic doldrums that will have an affect on Gold and Silver!
    We need a collective aspect for continuance of holding, buying Gold and Silver that needs to be given as the solution. The board is now open. Let’s hear it from the stackers!
     

    • Basil Three – Delayed(probably dead) because if banks are not allowed to mark their toxic assets to a fantasyland price they would have no liquidity.  No liquidity means you are bankrupt.  We can’t have the too big to fail actually fail can we.  Best part of Basel Three for stackers would have been reclassifying gold as a Tier One bank asset.  That alone would have caused the price of gold to surge. 

    • “…failure of the derivatives market…”
       
      Not to worry, Ranger.  Obama has this handled via bringing in a derivatives dealer as the new Sec. Treas.  He will certainly know what to do.  Will probably put ALL US funds into some nifty derivatives products that will produce MASSIVE profits that will bail us all out.  Just don’t ask the obvious question of where those profits are coming from!  X-[
       

  14. “The U.S. can never default on debts denominated in U.S. dollars.”
     
    Technically, the US defaulted when it closed the ‘Gold window’ back in 1971.  The US Gold was being drained as people discovered that paper Dollars had being created to huge excess, and therefore it defaulted in the redemption of paper Dollars for physical Gold.  At that point, the US Dollar should have been abandoned as a world reserve currency, but that was not in the plans.  A few at the top have prospered immensely since that time as a result, but the vast majority of the people in the US will suffer the consequences of this ill-conceived Ponzi scheme.
     
    Also, to those who cling to the idea that the US has the military power to back up the US Dollar as world reserve currency, just look at what’s happened in recent years, and how the BRIC nations and others have been able to by-pass and marginalize the Dollar more and more with each passing day.  The only real strength of the US is if it still owns the 8,000 tons or so of physical Gold that it claims to own, and that is a big IF.

    • Agreed.  1971 was a technical default, but only on the government to government level.  At that same time then Sec. of State Henry Kissinger convinced the Saudi’s(OPEC) to only sell oil for dollars in effect establishing the petrodollar.  Our military is what enforces the petrodollar. The deal was we keep the Saudi Royal Family in power and they only sell dollar denominated oil.  Saddam thought he would sell his oil for Euro’s.  Gaddafi thought he would do similar.  Both were invaded by the U.S. military.  Our military involvement in the Middle East is all about the preserving the petrodollar.

    • “A few at the top have prospered immensely since that time as a result, but the vast majority of the people in the US will suffer the consequences of this ill-conceived Ponzi scheme.”
       
      Hmmm, let’s see… those who invented this goat screw of a process are profiting immensely, everyone else is getting financially raped, so… what’s not to like about its conception to those at the top?  From their point of view, it seems to be working wonderfully well.
       

  15. Sooner or later they are going to raid the private funds to add to the social security fund that they raided to pay for war. I am on social security and I keep expecting to not get paid.

    • Currently, Social Security has morphed into nothing more than just a line item on the general ledger of the Federal gov’t.  There is no Trust Fund.  There is no ‘lock box’.  There is only a filing cabinet in Virginia stuffed with IOU’s.  There is no need for the gov’t to raid 401k’s, etc if they need funds to pay Social Security recipients.  Hey, they are already printing money, just print a little more.  No big deal.  If they expropriate private accounts it’s only to make more people dependent on government.

    • “ If they expropriate private accounts it’s only to make more people dependent on government.”
       
      Their calculation on this undoubtedly revolves around the question of, “Can we do this and survive as a political party?”.  If not and they try it anyway, at least the Whigs will have some company on the ash heap of US political history.
       

  16. Good write up… This is exactly why I withdrew as much as possible from my 401k a few months ago.  I held back the vomit as I paid the taxes and penalty, but I would rather have the remaining funds than lose all of it by way of government theft.  I took the $31,000 and bought all of the staples… storable food, more ammo, a boat load of 90% silver and 1oz rounds, and other good stuff.

  17. So Basill3 is dead. No wonder the Western Banks are selling off their Gold.What’s all the Fluff about the banksters buying up Gold, if Gold has been put on the back burner? Where is the rise in precious metals coming from? China, India, Hooligan land? Gold and Silver are so stagnate right now that whatever ohysical is purchased it’s still not moving!
    So what and when is going to make Silver and Gold move UP?
     
    I really need to know. Ideas? Whose first?

    • The 10 year rise in precious metals is because globally all gov’ts are debasing their currencies.  Gold always does well in an environment of negative real interest rates.  In the short term keep your eyes on Japan.  They elected a new gov’t and are dramatically changing monetary policy.  Near term result will likely see Japanese pension plans moving into gold and silver.  That would cause a surge in the prices of both gold and silver.

    • It is very frustrating right now, but barring an economic meltdown, we may never see silver rise to its actual value unless it will benefit the FED. 

  18. Ranger I ask myself that question every day  In the last 10 years gold’s up 500% and silver more than that. My only reference point is the rise in PM’s in the mid to laate 1970s as inflation ramped to a statistically revealed 13%, instead of this gummint BS of 2%.  Interest rates should be 8-10% as well.  Prior to Empire of ZIRP, ruled by King Bernanke, rates reflected the price of money relative to inflation.  Now the situation of physical metal prices and interest rates are held down by a global collective of central banks and governments.  The price of money and metals is a conundrum.  These prices and rates should not be this low.  If the 1970s follow true to course, leaving the Hunt Bros aside and they really didn’t have that much to do with the prices rises, or how else do you describe the rise in gold prices, then the tipping point will be when the people realize their FIAT is growing increasingly worthless and race to anything that supports purchasing value. Those who got into metals by 1975, stacking silver at $5 an ounce and gold at maybe $150-200, were rewarded 5 years later. We have been in this crazy worth of lies, distortions, suppression and manipulation that might be unprecedented in our history.  There are things the government cannot do forever and currency and interest rate suppression are two that come to mind.  Until the explosion occurs, I’ll keep asking myself when the prices will go up
    It may be a small thing like UD note of the japanese pension plans. They have trillions of yen earning ZIRP.  Some sort of critical PM shutdown that cascases across the globe with countries nationalizing the taxing PMs, strikes that shut down the key mines or companies simply refusing to sell at these low prices since their extraction costs shoot upwards.  Fear factor flight to quality with a 35% drop in the stock market or a big ME war with oil at $200 a bbl and a bond default in a Euro country like Italy or Spain and we’re off to the races.
    Keep your powder dry and your dry powder ready.

    PS A couple of days ago on harvey’s site, mark grant said that you can all the facts rights and make all the correct assumptions and all it takes is one banker drone like Draghi to say ‘the world is saved’ and all the dot connecting is thrown in the hat, worthless

  19. Copy that Ed B  I will feel like I’ve cross the line once 2012 is done, and maybe 2013.  The initial transfer from my original custodian Fidelity was normal as my IRAs were transferred to Sun Trust.  From there, this bank ran high cover as I transfered the IRA balances to the LLC, a recognized and accredited acceptor of IRA funds.  From there the purchase of the precious metals was pretty perfuctory  If I keep my nose clean and maintain the paperowork the matter is pretty much wrapped up.  Of course, the government that is big enough to give us everything (LOL) is strong enough to take it away.  Ammo cans, canoes and shovels can usually take care of the messy business of concealing those items if needed.  The gray area is home storage but that also has the back door bolt hole should anyone from the IRS poke around.

  20. “A couple of days ago on harvey’s site, mark grant said that you can all the facts rights and make all the correct assumptions and all it takes is one banker drone like Draghi to say ‘the world is saved’ and all the dot connecting is thrown in the hat, worthless”
     
    If so, then is it just another pointless exercise?

    • I don’t think there are too many pointless exercises today. The stakes are so high. 
       I was mostly referring to using my knowledge of the 1970-80 PM price and inflation as my touchstone for the present era. But if someone creates some sort of  new policy and system that makes the old way of thinking obsolete, then my assumptions might be wrong. 
      The funny thing about Grant’s statement is it was right, but for only about 2 weeks. Draghi ‘saved the world’ with his financial magic. Then  it reverted right back to the same old rubbish.  Each time someone’s stated the Greek problem is solved and we’re all saved, a month late the Greeks are back asking for another handout, only its worse this time.  Funny how th emore thing change the more they stay the same.

  21. Agreed, AG… and on all counts!
     
    But, I just had a nasty thought intrude upon all this financial bliss.  lol    That thought is that there might be another way to achieve the Govs aim of massive new revenues without nationalizing private pension funds.  It would be a 3-step approach.  In step 1, they would start a propaganda campaign wherein they would have many people in the government speaking on radio and TV about how we are in bad financial condition and that we will simply HAVE to raise taxes.  They don’t want to do that but there just isn’t any other alternative. After some months of this, they begin step 2, in which they will offer a brief period in which standard IRAs and 401Ks can be converted to their Roth equivalent.  This will snooker the suckers… er, citizens… into converting to Roths and paying a large amount of tax during the special conversion period… “after which, conversion will no longer be offered, so grab it while you can”.  The usual media outlets will beat the drum incessantly about how great this opportunity really is.  In step 3, the new revenue comes via a European style VAT.  This allows the government to collect taxes on all that “tax free” Roth money as it is spent.  Very slick with double taxation of retirement funds being done but no forcing anyone into it or into gubmint bonds.  This could work.  Beware any such offers.  If this offer is made, we will all know that our time in these retirement plans is up and we need to clear out of them ASAP.  Yes, we will be well and truly screwed financially… again… but at least we might be able to save a part of our money because if this offer does not work, then the gubmint bond thing could be on again and who knows how much of our money that will siphon off.
     

  22. I hear you on all counts Ed B Nancy Pelosi come up with one of her loony tune statements in that she said the government needs to raise another $1 trillion in revenues this year.  Just because a person ignore the government does not mean the government is ignoring us.  The problem with Pelosi is that her cloudcoocooland statements become policy–like Obamacare.
    Roth IRA conversion have been on the table for some time but if the gummint starts saying its your patriot duty to covert to a Roth, that’s when the hairs on my neck stand on end.  VAT is here with the Obamacare medical device tax.  It’s small, just the camel’s nose.  VAT will get here. It’s just a matter of time.  VAT is way to popular in Europe to go unnoticed by this kleptocratic pack of hyenas in DC.  Boner just gave away the farm when he quailed in front of the Barack-o-naut assault.  I think way too many RINOs want to keep their cosy relationship with their Dem buddies.  They refuse to speak to power. But they will sneak to power even if it’s on the coattails of their leftist buddies.  The Republic is not safe when the legislature in in session.

  23. It’s hard to know the truth about anything when almost all information is disseminated through corrupted and compromised institutions like the MSM. The indoctrination and propaganda machine is almost total and so damned effective. When they come for private accounts most will have been propagandized to believe it’s the best deal ever. Even if they don’t it will be just a paper transfer. After that, once again the companies they work for will take it from their paychecks. No chance to escape unless you quite working and become self employed. Then if/when the government oulaws cash that avenue will be also blocked. Everyday the death grip of tyranny around societies tightens.

  24. pension funds of the working class to support the wealthy and the banksters …. yes i know its for a good cause … the system will collapse unless we use those funds ….
     

  25. as for the malvinas … well a junta thatv was extremely unpopular at home used the islands as a means to raise their popularity a government in britain extremely unpopular fought them to raise national support … now we have another government with high unemployment rampant inflation and zero popularity waving the national flag … will the brits respond yes because they have poor economics austerity and an unpopular govt …. but hey how many wars are fought for the same reason …. iraq one and iraq 2 afghanistan panama, grenada …. isreal and gaza …. pakistan and india … japan and china… all countries know that one way to win in politics is attack someone we all hate ….

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