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Caption Contest 1Asian gold demand expert Koos Jansen joins the show this week to discuss why:

  • In the End, Everyone Will Rush to Gold!
  • Gold Will Rise to At Least $1600 in 2014 on Chinese demand
  • Gold to replace US dollar as global reserve currency
  • Cartel smashes metals on FOMC taper, but gold completes “Golden Cross” Friday
  • Koos makes the case why he believes that China Is The Real Gold Manipulation Culprit, while Eric argues that the evidence points to the US gov’t 

The SD Weekly Metals & Markets with guest host Koos Jansen is below:

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Another FOMC meeting, another trashing of precious metals.  At least the powers that be are consistent.  Meridian Macro researched gold performance leading up to and after FOMC meetings going back to June, 2013.  They produced an interesting chart that was published at ZeroHedge March 19th, so the data related to the latest FOMC meeting isn’t complete.  But it still shows the same sort of downside move one would expect.

20140319_gold_0

It’s too bad they didn’t make a historical study going further back in time.  I’ve seen other windows of history reviewed and the pattern is the same.  When there are FOMC meetings, it’s one of the preferred periods the powers that be beat the stuffing out of the precious metals sector.  The consistently of the pattern going back well over a decade can not be explained away other than by “denial theory.”

The Fed tapered, as expected, cutting $5 billion from mortgage back security purchases as well as $5 billion from the Fed Treasury buying program.  That brings us down to asset purchases of $55 billion per month going forward.  We have seen a small bounce up in some economic measures following the decline seen during the cold snap.  But I’d argue there was excessive blame placed on cold weather, and the overall picture still suggests a downward move has begun.  The Fed has room to make another $10 billion cut during the April 30th/May 1st meeting.  The next meeting begins June 17th, which is far enough out in the future that we should know with much more clarity where the US and global economy stands.  I’m still in the camp that expects a significant slow-down and a pause in tapering of the Fed’s asset purchasing program.  But it looks like it might take a month or two more of $10 billion cuts before we see the Fed go on pause.

Keep an eye on the 10 year US Treasury yield and the dollar.  The next FOMC meeting occurs on April 30 and May 1st.  That’s plenty of time to see the 10 year move back towards 2.9%, which will certainly cause concern around the FOMC table.  The Fed is fearful of a brake-out above 3% but they can’t fight that forever.   Removing their function as the buyer of last resort in the Treasury market will eventually force rates higher.  They can’t avoid this fact given tepid organic bond demand.

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Koos Jansen and I discussed whether China or the US serve as the primary actor behind the management of gold prices.  Jansen hypothesizes that China plays a more important role, and as you’d expect I made the case that the U.S. is the 800 pound gorilla.  The discussion is certainly interesting.  In my view China plays a tacit supporting role because — as Jansen correctly notes — it’s in China’s best interest to see gold priced as low as possible during their period of aggressive accumulation.  We’ll definitely return to this conversation in a future broadcast.

Koos Jansen publishes fantastic research at his In Gold We Trust website.  A couple of weeks back he published an outstanding review on Chinese gold demand.  We referenced it in our show today.  Click here to read it.

Given the Crimean vote to rejoin Russia, I highly recommend Ron Paul Institute’s John Laughland’s Thursday interview for perspective.  Click here for weekend reading/viewing.

Have a great weekend — Eric Dubin

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  1. It is entirely possible that the US and Chinese Govs are working in tandem on this.  China fills its vaults with gold while the US maintains the illusion of strength and world dominance for a little while longer.  Odd as it seems, those in government have a lot more in common with each other than either does with their own citizens.

    • Ed, ever since the White House Christmas tree (their first year in the White House) had a card with Mao’s picture hanging on it, I knew/suspected that something hideously evil was afoot -I mean, why do you put a mass murderer on the WH tree unless you agree with or love the guy?!  What I envision is something of a hand-over to China of more than mere gold, more like land that the 1.3 billion Chinese need to feed themselves. So, what Obama and his handlers are up to is not entirely clear, but I feel certain that it does not involve the survival of the US in any recognizable form.  Whether the handover is accomplished through an engineered crash of the dollar (whereupon the Chinese waltz in and buy up the place) or the more draconian route of asymmetric warfare (they cyber-attack to bring down the grid -as recommended by the 2 Chinese PLA colonels Liang and Xiangsui in their book, Unrestricted Warfare, with its civil chaos and civil war and decimation of the US population -why have a bunch of hostile Americans running around if you can avoid it?). Are we getting sold down the river, even if in slow motion by Obama, his handlers, and the Chinese? Seems obvious to me.

    • Spot on, Ed, they absolutely are. This is about equalizing commodity holdings from West to East, setting the stage for a new reserve and trade settlement standard in which gold will play a large role. It still flabbergasts me that people speak about this wealth transfer in terms of either “the Fed” or “the Chinese” manipulating metals. This is clearly a team effort; the Chinese don’t have a spot at the table in London directly. They didn’t put a gun to the head of Warren Buffett and force him to create the paper silver market to suppress the price. The West hasn’t forced China into its large position in gold, but it’s certainly taken advantage of Western manipulation.
       
      HSBC launders as much drug money as Barclays and JP Morgan. Criminality in the modern age is multinational, even though various players at the table may occasionally have disagreements. In all honesty, it’s a bit sickening that people are willing to call the Anglo-American Establishment “stupid” for selling PMs at such discounted prices. These people are a lot of things, but dumb is not one of them; these are very serious opponents to human freedom, and throughout history, they have a keen manner of turning their supposed “mistakes” into new paradigms that benefit only themselves. This monetary shift will be no different.

    • I noted a year ago on SD blog that China was the main culprit behind gold being smashed.  Since then I’ve seen numerous articles and blogs about China is the biggest benefactor of the suppressed gold price.  All the obvious trails lead to China somehow being involved.  If the Western Banks are selling all of their gold to China they most likely would like the price higher unless being strong armed.
      Just realize that China is the #1 spender of money in D.C. for lobbyists and special interests.  Maybe that helps explain the situation?
      If they had revalued gold to $3,000 or $5,000 years ago and stopped the paper manipulation, the gold would still be intact within the Western Banks.  Instead, they let gold get slammed then China and Friends bought up 100′s and 1,000′s of metric tons. It’s become obvious that once China gets its belly full of gold the revaluation will being along with Russia and India.
      The best move they could do now is immediately revalue gold to a higher amount and put a 3 month freeze on any exports to examine the situation.  Then put together an aggressive plan within North America to open up all of those old gold and silver mines.  The U.S. has a lot of gold and silver in the ground but its worthless sitting there and most is not economically viable to mine at $1,350 / oz.  If gold was at $3,000 – $5,000 and silver $70 – $100 that would change the mathematical equations quite a bit.
       

    • PowerBall - The best move they could do now is immediately revalue gold to a higher amount and put a 3 month freeze on any exports to examine the situation.
       
      You assume that “they” are interested in working in the best interest of the US. Wish it were so.

    • How would China, being outside the Comex, manipulate gold price?  Mentioning lobbying influence is one example. And for sure how can it be said they are manipulating while western govs. do nothing?  I suggest there is a big difference between aggessively trying to purchase large quantities at low price and “manipulating.”  Taking delivery is price supportive just unto itself.  How do people propose China is buying and taking delivery, while surpressing price down via manipulation?
      The US on the other hand can print Comex contracts with no phys., basically sell an oz to multiple buyers, lie about national holdings, print unbacked world reserve currency, and allow forced cash setlements.  Those are manipulating tools.  China might have a lot of bargaining tools, but I don’t see manipulating tools other than say the Washington lobbyist influence.
      The next time you connect with India for tech help on some issue, strike up a chat about gold and silver there.  I spent 3 hrs on the phone with an Indian guy putting a Win7 computer back together.  His gold comments and attitude were interesting.

    • @PowerBall – Buying a building is not manipulation.  If you are suggesting JPM sold the building too cheaply at some request of USA, then USA is the diry one.  I’m not suggesting China doesn’t see USA on the ropes and isn’t deliberately working against us, but again, that’s not manipulation.
       
      The jobs question is too big for a precious metal blog page.  Consider that the US gov. has made it illegal for USA citizens to work at the same level china citizens work.  Plus gov. was probably “paid” by USA business to facilitate new international trade.  And if with all of the opportunity USA infrastructure offers, if a USA citizen can be replaced straight up with a chinese worker, shame on the USA worker.  Did you know China is loosing jobs to lower paying countries? I have visited Asia a lot.  There is not one minute I am there that I am not aware of the short comings, limitations, and to small extent danger of how Asia is put together as best as they can manage.  And if you think China is threatening your job now, just wait until they learn more how to not simply do what they are told.  I think it will get at least twice as bad.  Don’t believe the propaganda of lower cost of living justifying slave wages: grocery food is the same, utilities are more, cars are more, clothing is more for the same quality, housing is much more, entertainment is the same or more.  Restaurant food is less, taxis and busses are less.  Chinese business owners work 12 hrs per day, 6-7 days per week.  The vet I went to lived above his shop and worked 7 days per week.  I never made an appointment, he was there every hour I ever showed up including weekends.  Can you imagine a USA vet working like that “to keep their job from being taken” by China?

    • @Art005 – I’ve heard this argument before defending China’s labor and it starts pointing that you’re either buying into the corporate lame stream media or a Troll.   
      I’m not the one that suggested this about JPM.  There’s many experts which have made predictions or guesses on why JPM sold their building to China. However, there seems to be some type of connection. As the old saying goes, where there is smoke there’s usually fire. Just about everyone out there including German govt officials are stating the gold market is being manipulated. Do you not know this?
       
      Given the remarks are mostly stating that American’s are lazy and don’t work 6-7 days a week, I’m leaning towards troll or you don’t know people that work those type of hours? I know a lot of Americans that work those type of hours every week.
      I think they give you guys a script to follow?
       

    • PowerBall … “China is the biggest benefactor of the suppressed gold price.”

      From our viewpoint, as PM savers, that’s the naturally intuitive supposition … but … from the universally shared viewpoint of all governments who live out ‘Heaven on Earth’ (regardless that it’s a Hell for everyone else) through their paper credit paradigm, PMs are their principal Nemesis.

      Sun Tzu … Know your opponent as you know your self.

    • @PowerBall – I have experience and perspective that is very hard to find.  I’m sharing with SilverDoctor to help understand as much as possible.  I never said any negative thing you mentioned, read again.  Did you miss that I think the west is manipulating gold, and on their own I don’t see how China can do it since they are outside the market.  Joint manipulation with USA maybe, but then they are inside and that changes everything.
      I’ve gotten this quick negative tone here before.  I wish my PM investments were bigger and doing better, I wish my business and life weren’t so difficult due to US not following Constitution law and private property rights.  That doesn’t change the reality of what I know about Asia.  Maybe you are the one following a script.  Imagine not recognizing someone as conservative as me, just because I describe reality outside of USA.
      I didn’t defend China labor.  I described China labor.  And not factory workers that are very hard to describe across wide range.  I described business owners, they are proud and happy of what they do.  That is the labor market US is competing against.  Do you think QE is going to change that, not at all, it’s a bankrupting waste of effort.  Same goes for ObamaCare and most of USA regulators like EPA, HHS, DOJ, IRS, DOL, OSHA and such.  Gov’s idea to legislate success is doomed.  Can you imagine that typical small chinese vendors have no requirement to fill out or pay income taxes?  Can you imagine how much motivating hustle that creates?  That is what US labor competes against.  I think the internet is crushing that over regulated doomed approach because the more advantageous environments are catching up quickly.

    • @PowerBall – I don’t think protectionism is the answer.  You can disagree.  Employees look to justify their existence, we all rise to our level of incompetance.  If upper management needs to have a profitable plan and US labor laws won’t allow the advantages that do exist in another country, there is motivation to expand there.  US minimum wage, labor laws and taxes, and foreign low limits to environmental issues creates a Build It There Sell It Here business plan.  Addressing this is easier than the trade wars and protectionism you suggest.  Import laws could require US environmental standards in foreign countries or pay increased tarriff.  I only know the few Asian location companies I know but they operate to western environmental standards.  One even teaching the gov. what standards should be.  Completely foreign (china) owned don’t know how to achieve western enviro standards.  My limited experience in the big world is western companies do not go to Asia with the idea to take advantage of them or cheat USA.  They play the hand dealt them, it appears to be their best answer.  It is heavily influenced by US business, tax, and labor laws along with increased market potential with a presence somewhere else.
      Asians are similarly concerned about the environment.  They really thrive for western culture.  They admire us a lot in spite of political disappointments.  I see them loosing good parts of their culture and embracing things like McDonalds.  People joke about how many bicycles there are in China but those are being replaced with electric scooters.  So now more people are overweight.  They are also being taught consumption, borrowing and saving less.  Dual income families, intense effort in education, grand parents contribute a lot to the family finance.  They lived modestly, younger are trying to have it all.  Do you know China also has a college grad unemployment problem?  They don’t innovate enough to expand their own industry, and manufacturing is moving to lower wage countries.  You’ve read about the shadow debt problems, it came from trying to expand faster than the economy to supply the world.
       
      The US has probably at least 3 more years of opressive destructive gov….. 3 years is a lot of time for China to keep growing.  Remember they out number us 4 to 1 and our countries are the same size.  Brilliant that we stayed ahead of them for a good 100 years, but taking the accomplishments for granted via bad legislation might be the last straw.  When the US was rich, the gov. got preoccupied with trying to help everyone.  Too much help and instead of our pie getting bigger, now it’s getting smaller leading the gov. to taking bigger pieces to maintain social stability.  So the productive people’s share is getting smaller and smaller, and harder to make bigger.
       
      Instead of me rambling…do you have any specific China questions?  Maybe I have some first hand experience.

    • @DanDaley
       
      Good point about the Mao Christmas card.  I did not know about that but did know that Obama was the farthest left politician in the US to ever rise to national prominence.  When one is to the left of Teddy Kennedy, one is not at all far from Marx, Engels, and Lenin.
       
      I don’t see any large-scale hand-over of US land to the Chinese but I can see US food producing companies becoming owned by Chinese companies so that increased US food production could be easily channeled into China.  The Smithfield company purchase by Group Shuanghui in late 2013 is a recent example of this kind of move.
       
      It is highly likely that the Obamunists are truly underestimating the American people and how much B$ we will tolerate.  As a nation, we are pretty laid back but we do have our limits.  Stepping over that line will have some very bad consequences for those intent on selling us out.
       
      Thanks @CerebralIndustrialComplex.  I very much appreciate your comments on this site.  Knowledge and understanding are things that prosper considerably from well-reasoned discussion and it is nice to see the bar being raised of late.  :-)
       
      No, I agree that the Western banksters are not stupid, although it is always possible that they are not as monolithic an organization as is often presumed to be the case.  Could it be that they have well and truly bought into the ridiculous idea that gold and silver are “barbarous relics” and no longer useful as stores of wealth?  At times, they certainly seem to have done so.
       
      Whatever happens, we WILL be “living in interesting times”, as our Chinese “friends” are known to say.  Not that there is anything that any of us can do to shift world history but there are things that we can do that will greatly affect our own personal history.  Hopefully, the folks on this web site will be keen to do as much of this as we can.
       
       

    • @PowerBall – Nice timely link to china gold buying.  It’s above my pay grade in Finance.  I was at my limit to almost understand the similar copper story.  The added gold complexity is beyond me.  Still the question of did the West help?  And on a lighter topic, this great elec. bike achievement is the sort of thing I meant isn’t happening in China yet.  But when it does start happening there, I expect job issues in USA will get even more difficult.
      http://feeds.feedblitz.com/~/59644656/0/gizmag~The-story-of-the-RYNO-electric-microcycle-%E2%80%93-in-the-inventors-own-words/ 

  2. Perhaps China already has enough gold, far more than they report.  And their goal now is to drain the West of her gold.  Then, when they are ready, along with Russia crash the dollar by dumping Treasuries.  What would Pres. Obama do, draw a line in the sand?

    • @UglyDog

      Someone is liable to draw a line across Obama’s face and then take a whiz in it.  Putin & Co. are openly laughing at the idiots in DC and the EU, and particularly at Obama, whom they see as an incompetent limp-wristed buffoon.  They have robbed the bank and Obama shows up to give their getaway car a parking ticket!
       

  3. Koos stated oscillation and perplexity over which entity, Beijing or Washington, is the prime mover of the metals ‘smashes’, with a leaning toward Beijing, because his instinct is that China apparently benefits the most (good rule of inquiry that, Cui Bono). Regarding which, I might suggest considering that while the accumulation of gold is superficially presumed as a ‘wealth guarantor’ (unquestionable on a private level), both governments … ultimately … benefit immensely more, where their shared principal goal is to preserve the banknote boondoggle (no one should allow mistake, it is a global monolith), yielding infinitely greater bounty than anything of substance … especially a substance of strictly limited and rare availability.

    Paper Rots, Coin Does Not … a maxim applicable in moral and practical realms alike.

  4. This interview does fit some important puzzle pieces together and expands the thinking involved in China (and India’s) insatiable appetite for gold.  Pat Fields, you note the shared principal goal of banknote boondoggle.  The shared pain both countries are experiencing is the other side of the coin.  China has an even greater level of M in the currency supply plus much more debt sloshing around in their system.  It’s no surprise that China and Russia are falling in love over nat gas and oil pipelines whose investments are on the order of $250 billion and growing.  Since China and Russia are putting aside their natural enmity, they are seeing a common foe that must be dealt with.  That’s US.
    They also see their own economic and currency weaknesses. Those have to be resolved if they are to succeed on the world stage as super powers that rival the US or at least put them on a footing that given them strengths outside the realm of economic, currency and debt wars as well as sanctions being tossed around.
    The  assumption that there is some degree of cooperation between China and the US  is reasonable given the trillions of FIAT and debt involved, plus the price of gold and the degree of China’s own debt and currency instability. Adversaries cooperate in times of stress despite their nature enmities.  China’s self interest is extreme at this moment given their $25 trillion debt pyramid scheme is failing. If I was in their shoes I would be dumping assets at light speed to shore up my empire.  That’s being seen in the Chinese oligarchs and ultra wealthy and their fire sale of properties in Hong Kong and over seas.  They are desperate for hard currency to stave off their bankruptcies. Personal and company pankruptcies in China have penalties ranging from long prison sentences to death.
    National interests of the Chinese government and PBOC are going to weight far more heavily in these matters.  I echo Eric’s sentiments that China is the unintended recipient of gold’s lower price as the US tries to keep the USD  alive and kicking. If they can aid the price drops in gold and silver so be it. That is an unintended consequence of our government’s desperation to protect the dollar.
    There will be plenty of pain to go around.  China wants to reduce their pain as fast as they can; the US be damned. It is inevitable so the sooner the currency cesspool is cleared the better.
    The consequences of seeking hard national interests is unfolding world wide. South America, The BRICS, UKR, Sendaku islands, currency wars, Yuan devaluing, the Yen disaster, trade wars and maybe hot wars in the near future speaks to some real desperation in China to hold off some sort of collapse or Minsky Moment re their debt and funny money. From my perspective China sees these manifold problems as an opportunity; but their house is far from being in order. The rot is not something the Chinese leaders are willing talk about. News is restrained but the smell is leaking out.
     At the same time as China is able to buy 2,500 tons of gold at reasonable values it is increasing evident that China is going to hit the debt and default wall hard.   I can scarcely imagine the conversations taking place in the Chinese leadership heirarchy.  Buy anything that might go up in value including gold, silver, oil and any other natural resource from any source while the Yuan and base metal commodities, the collateral for many family businesses, drops like rocks.
    Just because gold, with its extrinsic value of $1,330, is well below its real value if adjusted by any measure, does not mean the manipulators of the US Dollar don’t include some Chinese interests.  Their central bank is perfectly capable of ‘stealing’ gold at fire sale prices by manipulating the price.
     They have been perfectly capable of stealing our technology and product ideas for the last 20 years since they got the most favored nation status.  They’ve consumed 50,000,000 US jobs into their factories and flooded the world with their products lines.  Their trading interests with Europe consist of 20% of the European GDP. These lines of trade must be preserved.
    I have no love for any government that treads of the individual interests of the common man.  But national interests will weigh more heavily that any international treaty or short term pain that allows China to extract gain from a situation that threatens the vitality and well being of a country, any country for that matter.
     China is desperate to become rich and powerful before it’s population becomes too old and weak to maintain its hold in the world markets.  They also face demographic pressures that demand resolution.  That’s a looming problem that has a 25 year time clock
    What would possibly stabilize these problems, present and future?
    Sound money,  a vast treasury of gold, silver and a economy based on solid economic principals that really does spread the wealth.  
    That might work and with China’s aggressive desire to stand tall in the world’s eyes, precious metals are vital to seeing to this end

    • ” I echo Eric’s sentiments that China is the unintended recipient of gold’s lower price as the US tries to keep the USD  alive and kicking.”
       
      ‘Unintended’, but from who’s perspective.
       
      Everything I’ve read about China tells me that they think strategically over a span of decades and that everything is planned.  Common sense tells me the Chinese have far more gold than they publicly report.  Add in all the Dynasty gold accumulated over the centuries and I would not be surprised if the real number was between 20,000 – 30,000 tonnes.
       
      In 2008 the Russians approached the Chinese about joining forces to crash the U.S. economy.  China said not yet.  So, here we are in 2014 and the U.S. economy has the illusion of recovery, but fundamentally things are only worse and now we have no gold. 
       
      I’ve said before (per Jim Willie’s work) that the big short in the PM market may well be the Chinese, not the ESF.  It’s all in Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War”.

    • It’s either unintended or that the US and China have done some coordination on gold.  It’s probably the latter, actually.  Regardless, the main point is that it’s VERY clear it is the US and European powers (especially the UK) that are behind the lion’s share of the manipulation.  The paper markets are the center of most of the manipulation and Western interests are dominating those markets.  We can see that with the derivatives positions the Western bullion banks report.  It’s not hidden.  For example, when JPM has over half of the silver COMEX market during long durations of time, and given that they serve the Fed that bailed JPM out, you can see where loyalties line-up.  People don’t joke about JPM being the Fed’s bank without cause.

    • Certainly, China may have sufficient leverage on U.S. Treasury officials to commit what amounts to treason or more likely the U.S. Treasury believes their own Keynesian Kool-Aide and think they are unloading a ‘barbarous relic’ on a dimwitted China.  Got to remember Russia and China play to win meaning they crave world domination free of Western decadence and moral decay.  Russia annexing Crimea and next the Ukraine is not an opportunistic endeavor.  It’s been planned for years. 

    •  AGXIIK  … “What would possibly stabilize these problems, present and future. Sound money,  a vast treasury of gold, silver and a economy based on solid economic principals that really does spread the wealth.”

      Well, you probably know already, that I agree 100%. If it were mine to decide, I’d have the whole world reverted back to Honest Money in a year’s time and in a way that would cause no one any misery … which I’ve also laid out.

      Still … knowing from empirical evidence and very long history, that interests of governments are for themselves and not their Peoples, I’m inclined to consider what courses they’d take toward their survival over ours … to get a sense of how to get out of the way.

    • Flying Wombat … “The paper markets are the center of most of the manipulation and Western interests are dominating those markets.”

      Allowing for collusion between ‘East’ and ‘West’ (‘government’, otherwise), couldn’t the convenience factor result from the ‘West’ already having had a paper market just simply far more sophisticated and effective for the task? I’ve noticed the Chinese laying groundwork toward a similar scam in Asia too. Which means that paper manipulation is not above their moral code either. Government will be government … place and time of no real consequence.

    • There are two major caveats to Koos Jensen’s argument about china being the major contributor to the current discounts in gold and silver:  Most knowledgeable sources who are familiar with the Chinese decision makers current viewpoint indicate that there is no such collaboration with the western powers with regard to gold pricing. They view the Obama administration with great distrust and if anything they take steps to avoid the destruction of the financial system which is the set course of the hyperinflationary policies promulgated in Washington.  Second, the Chinese thought process is in terms of long term slow careful planning.  Their strategies have been thought out long in advance and they are implementing these strategies in a very careful and controlled manner. The west, however, is not. All the strategies they have implemented are ‘fly by the seat of your pants’ attempts to lay waste to individual states, rape and pillage them of their resources for ‘protection’  through supporting the us dollar.  All their strategic efforts fail as evidenced in Egypt, Iran etc.
      When Koos Jensen alleges that China is actively trying to keep the price of gold down…I think that it is for their advantage now that the price rise..because they have almost all of it the west had and they need it to back their currency.  Only the west wants the price to fall.  Koos Jensen alleges that the US government wants inflation.  However, what I think they are concerned with hyperinflation which is what they are in the process of getting.  They are not trying to get inflation at this point because their strategy for getting inflation which was to pour money into the system to promote their economy to move forward has been a massive mistake. I don’t think they are trying to do that anymore.  What they started to attempt to reduce QE was because if they kept it up they were on the path of hyperinflation.  They are trying to stop the price of gold from going up because they fear that a precipitous rise in the price of gold would herald  the hyperinflation they fear and that is inevitable now.
            In short, I believe that the real conflict in the area of gold now is between the Chinese etc wanting the price of gold to rise and they attempt to back their currency with it so that their economic system (and the gold settlement alternative trade settlement system they are developing) can prosper while the west esp the US is trying to contain the price of gold to prevent the hyperinflation their policies have brought upon themselves.  As to the issue of the IMF’s trade weighted basket of currencies, how is that in China and Russia’s interest?  How does lending credence to currencies such as the US dollar, the British pound etc which have been used to attempt to degrade and devalue their own currencies and which have no intrinsic value because of their massive debt problems give any value to their own currencies ?  In essence the US and GB etc have caused their own self destruction by destroying the intrinsic value of their own economies so that their could ‘exploit’ the east for so many years, why would those economies now ‘rescue’ the currencies of those former great powers?  They wouldn’t and there will be no currency basket accommodation I don’t believe.

  5. Two thousand years ago, a Roman senator suggested that all slaves be made to wear white armbands so that they could be better identified.
     
    But a fellow senator wisely disputed the idea.
     
    For, he said, if the slaves were to see how many strong they stood, they could revolt.

  6. What I do not understand in all of the Gold transfer from West to East. The U.S. isn’t forced to sell their Gold, so why would China be buying it unless the U.S. was cooperating in lock step? The best solution is just give China the entire state of California, they will eventually wind up with it anyway. Great trade against dump of over a Trillion in U. S. Treasuries  

    • @Ranger
       
      “The U.S. isn’t forced to sell their Gold…”
       
      Perhaps the US IS forced to sell their gold via their price manipulation schemes. After all, if they smash the price lower, that lower price only has meaning if they are willing to sell gold AT THAT PRICE.  If they are not, then the price will gravitate upwards and their “price” becomes meaningless.  So, no selling at the reduced prices means that the low prices are fakes and cannot be maintained.  The Chinese, on the other hand, are only too happy to unload all the USD / UST paper they can and if that unloading occurs in the world gold markets, so much the better.
       

  7. Ugly Dog   If it was an unintended benefit to China that the US treasury and Fed suppressed the price of gold to keep the dollar looking ‘good’ then China has been taking advantage of the western world’s struggle to maintain the value of the dollar and maybe the pound.  China seems to have started buying in earnest in the last 2 years, missing the window of $300-800 gold over the last decade.  
    If it is a vast conspiracy between China and the west to permit an exit of gold eastward, this is even more evil that I surmised
    This means there is a very deliberate movement of precious metals to the east with the players knowing that the west’s paper currency and debt paradigm was destined to fail and do so hard and fast.  This also means that anyone attached to this paradigm is slated for some extremely hard times in the coming years.  The US has the farthest to fall and it will be calamitous.  
    Whoever is behind these manipulations and vast  transfer of  real wealth must know what the end game should or could be.  It appears deliberate in action so some unseen hand is working the levers.  The word conspiracy comes to mind since
    it requires some real coordination to make sure all players stay on the team and the process of wealth transfer proceeds 
    apace.  It is still unfolding.   The big players may reveal themselves in time.
    Knowing what we can faintly discern from the events, we sit on our stacks of silver and gold saying, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, what’s happening Mrs Robinson.

  8. yanno Charlie,  I was bent on trying to figure out some of the national interests and that is really a pretty much introspective way of looking at things. it’s all about the interior. People and their patchs of earths.  National interests circumscribed by artificial borders and lines on a map.  But the transnational biggies who’ve spent centuries divorcing themselves from the idea of borders really have an upper hand in control since they know how to manipulate the ethno-centric, nationalist cultural focus of the people crowded inside their country’s boxes.  
    Paat Fields you hit the nail on the head with your statement above of the governments paradise on earth—and it sure is so long as it lasts and supports their lovely little patch of paper nirvana.
     When I was a paper monger, totally consumed by the chase of FIAT, not giving a thought to precious metals or the entire paradigmatic battles of PM and paper, I would have laughed at the thought of seeing the world through the lens of precious metals.   But that is the lens we use now. Thanks for reminding me that there are many ways to view world events.
    It’s interesting how that golden scope shows things in such a different light
    Like Charlie said,  countries don’t matter anymore.  They are artificial constructs, not totally arbitrary but artificial nonetheless. Precious metals shows up much of that artificiality.  Gold seeks homes where it is appreciated and is used for its intended ends. Real money and a storehouse of value. C’est La Vie that most discount that in the world today

  9. @Powerball said…
    “Just realize that China is the #1 spender of money in D.C. for lobbyists and special interests”
     
    Can you please provide link(s) to the source oif this information?
    If this is indeed a fact, then it is certainly a very well-kept secret.
    -Mammoth

    • If so, then some thought should be given to the idea of them only delaying this threat in return for cheap gold.  When it suits them, they WILL dump UST paper anyway… and then laugh at what fools our “leaders” were for setting up such an easily ruined deal.
       

  10. A question which crosses my mind is whether or not Koos Jansen is a shill for the parasites. My guess he is. His name is too cool, he has become a mouthpiece for the gold industry too quickly, and he blames China for price fixing gold down.  How does China buying massive amounts of gold, which may or may not be true, equate to price fixing the gold price down? Sure China wants to buy gold as cheaply as possible and may have a reason to price fix gold down but that does not mean China lowers itself R word parasite price fix low. Actually China directing its banks to promote silver and gold purchases to its people is highly cool and human. Mainly because I touted it years ago as a means to stop the gold and silver price fixing and 2) China is helping its people prepare for NWO induced bad times bout on the planet. My only hope now is for China to focus on helping and seeing to it the Chinese people buy and take physical possession of silver much more so than gold. Compare China’s motive with the R word Fed’s motive for price fixing the price of gold down. The R word Fed’s digital nothing currency buys stuff 50 times cheaper than silver’s historic purchasing power when silver is price fixed at $20 and it should be $1000.00. The Fed price fixed gold and silver b4 China became a player in world’s financial markets. China recent flex of strength in its currency market. Koos also mentions “currency reset” and IMF SDR currencies which reeks bad guys agendas. R word Facebook trolls blame China for currency problems and point to China buying lots of gold. Blaming China buying gold and belittling China helping its people prepare for bad times is an agenda item one would assume comes from the R word Fed propagandists. Of course the R word Fed loves China if it can twist China’s currency position to a one currency world, a NWO bottom line along with killing 4Billion or so of the planet’s peeps. I’ve gotten boomed from so many places that post opinions we’ll see if this post is deemed over the top.  

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