JP Morgan Cornering Gold? I’m assuming manipulation is here to stay

Jamie DimonWhy would anyone expect JP Morgan to change strategies now?

It’s possible, I guess, that the banksters might decide that they can get really rich by cornering the right side of the precious metals market and by “letting” prices soar.
Then again, if the bank’s gold portfolio soars, the bank’s dollar-backed investments would likely tank. That is, protecting the dollar is probably more important to them than booking any profits on precious metals.
My assumption is that JP Morgan  is not calling the shots all by itself.
Who has more power than JP Morgan? The U.S. government. And our bankrupt government likes paper, not gold.
In fact, our government probably despises gold. And fears that one day millions of Americans will wake up and start buying the stuff in mass.
For the purposes of this column I’m going to start with an assumption – not just any assumption, but a crucially important assumption;   probably the only assumption that matters.
 The assumption is that the prices of precious metals ARE rigged (or – pick your verb: “manipulated,” “managed,” “controlled” and/or “suppressed.”)
Furthermore, my assumption is that the entities manipulating the prices of gold and silver include (any or all of the following): The U.S. Fed, other central banks and the too big to fail bullion banks, most conspicuously JP Morgan Chase.
If the precious metal prices are indeed manipulated, what does this mean to those of us have a strong interest – or a strong  strong belief – in owning precious metals?
 Or: Cutting directly to the chase, why should those of us who believe in owning precious metals have any realistic expectation that our investments in gold and silver will appreciate in price by any significant degree … assuming (again) that these prices are controlled not by free market forces but by “the powers that be” specified above?
The sad answer, I believe, is that (in the short and medium term) we should not believe prices will be allowed to rise by any significant degree.
This said, I do firmly believe that at some point the “status quo” circumstances that make manipulation a fact of life will change and that prices will likely sky-rocket.
My assumption, however, is that TPTB do not want precious metal prices to rise. Or if prices do rise (read: are allowed to rise), they will not rise by  any great degree or in a rapid, sustained and eye-opening manner.
This, I’d argue, is a trillion-dollar assumption. It’s the only assumption that matters.
Most, I think, would agree with this statement: Precious metal prices are either being manipulated or they are not. Logic tells us these are the only two possibilities.
Those of us who think prices are being suppressed or manipulated must (logically) ask another question. How likely is it that  those who are manipulating prices will suddenly stop (either  voluntarily or involuntarily)?
My answer is “not very likely at all.”
If one assumes that prices are being manipulated, you also have to assume there is a reason(s) for such actions, a “motive” if you will.
 The reason most often cited is that gold (and silver) are considered a grave threat to the financial and economic “status quo.” Specifically, gold and silver are viewed as a great threat (probably THE greatest threat) to the U.S. fiat-dollar-based economy.
The fear is that if gold and silver “go hyperbolic,” the masses will flee the U.S. dollar as an investment vehicle. Chaos and economic catastrophe could very well ensue. This cannot be allowed to happen, thus the strategy to “suppress” precious metal prices by any means necessary.
A second reason is that some player(s) are profiting by cornering the precious metals markets. Knowing they can control the price today, tomorrow or next month, these players can execute trades that take advantage of this fact.
In my view, the first reason is the most important.
If there is indeed a virulent fear of precious metals getting out of control, common sense dictates that this “worst case scenario” (for TPTB) not be allowed to happen.
Since I’m writing an “assumption” column, I’m going to make yet another assumption.
Most will acknowledge we live in a nation whose government includes a giant “intelligence” bureaucracy. I’ve read (as I’m sure you have too) of the war games (or “threat games”)  members of this community sometimes stage to justify their existence.
One of my assumptions is that some members of this community have run economic scenarios through specially-designed software programs. Economic “experts” have probably been employed and/or consulted and asked the question: What is the greatest threat to the American standard of living and our “national security?”
The dollar losing its status as the reserve currency of the world has (I’m betting) been identified as one of the greatest threats to a “status quo” that’s been pretty good to America these past several decades.
And the easiest way to preclude a massive loss of confidence in the U.S. dollar is to make sure that there is not a sudden and major macro-move to gold and silver as an alternative store of value. Thus a continuing and on-going strategy of managing precious metal prices.
 I’m betting that the day a new president is inaugurated, higher-ups in the intelligence world (and/or at the Fed or U.S. Treasury) outline this “threat” for the new administration.
It’s of course possible that a president or Fed Chairman and/or Treasury Secretary could listen to such a briefing, hear the case for the suppression of gold prices and promptly reject it and presumably even stop it.
However, in such a scenario, such leaders would have to take a giant risk – the risk being that (left to the free market) prices of gold and silver would not soar.
Because if these prices did/do soar, everything that matters to the future of a president’s administration would very likely change dramatically. Interest rates might skyrocket; inflation might sky-rocket to an extent it could not be denied or ignored away; unemployment might surge.
Most importantly, absent gold and silver price suppression, the expenditures of the U.S. government might have to be cut in ways they have never been cut. The reach of government (including the military) would have to be dramatically curtailed.
The popularity of gold and silver, at their core, are reactions among some investors to the mind-boggling levels of debt being created by the federal government. In effect, silver and gold investors are simply betting that government’s status-quo deficit spending will at some point result in disaster.
A vote “for” precious metals is a vote “against” the competence of our government and the currency our government mandates we use.
A president (or Fed chairman or chairman of a mega bank that benefits from its cozy relationship with policy makers) who effectively outlawed the rigging of gold markets would be one bold fellow.
Politicians – one assumes – want to be popular.  One way they protect their popularity is by continuing all of the payments voters have become accustomed to. Indeed dependent upon.
Would such a politician and/or other leaders of the “status quo” risk their positions by telling the masses “no,” you can’t have this anymore (welfare, social security, pensions, subsidies, military bases and weapons plants in your Congressional district)?
If you are profiting (either financially or in stature) from the status quo, would you dramatically change the way the game is being played?
If you are a politician like Ron Paul, who by some miracle got elected, you might. But for every other politician likely to ascend to the highest levels, probably not.
Instead you would be much more likely to “kick the can down the road” a little longer (hopefully until you are safely and richly retired).
Suppressing precious metal prices is one (proven) way of kicking this can down the road.
The government (and those intelligence folks I mentioned) no doubt recognizes that there are some things they can do that will preserve the status quo. They might not be able to enact Policy A or Program B that results in a hiring frenzy in the private sector, but they KNOW they can manipulate gold and silver prices.
They know (from past experience) that they can execute a series of trades that not only lowers the price of precious metals but reinforces the negative “sentiment” their previous price “raids” helped create.
To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, this is a “known known.”
We might not be able to accomplish A, B or C, but we can dang sure keep the lid on precious metal prices, the thinking probably goes. If these prices start to get out of control, we can – in a matter of minutes – rein them back in.
The “unknown” they think they know is what would happen if they stopped suppressing the price of precious metals.
 When it comes to the “To Manipulate or Not Manipulate” question, “we don’t need to go there” is almost certainly the consensus answer to this question (to those who actually matter).
It’s best to not to find out what would happen if the price manipulation scheme was ever called off.
So what’s going to happen to the price of precious metals in the future?
They might, in fact, go up, perhaps even way up. But if this happens it will be after TPTB have done everything they could to prevent this from happening.
To think otherwise is to think that the most powerful people in this country have suddenly changed their viewpoint and have become completely ambivalent about precious metals prices.
“Let the market decide. No skin off our back. Won’t effect us one way or another. Or if prices do soar, well that’s perfectly alright with us.”
I don’t know about you, but I find it hard to believe such a change in outlook would ever/will ever occur.
The people who I assume have been manipulating the price of precious metals  will keep on doing everything they can to prevent precious metal prices from “taking off.”
Of course, I think the manipulation efforts will ultimately fail. Government central planning almost always fails and almost always produces the opposite result of that which was intended.
I’ll leave for another day my thoughts on  why or how (and when) I think the manipulation will fail.
 For now, though, I feel very confident predicting that the manipulators will manipulate as long as they can. Or until they can’t.
This is quite depressing to many of us. The “powers that be” have proven they can pull this off time and time again. They are either getting rich or – in their rationalization –  saving the world from economic calamity. Or both.
Why would anyone expect them to change strategies  now?
It’s possible, I guess, that JP Morgan might decide that they can get really rich by cornering the right side of the precious metals market and by “letting” prices soar.
Then again, if the bank’s gold portfolio soars, the bank’s dollar-backed investments would likely tank. That is, protecting the dollar is probably more important to them than booking any profits on precious metals.
Plus, my assumption is that JP Morgan  is not calling the shots all by itself.
Who has more power than JP Morgan? The U.S. government. And our bankrupt government likes paper, not gold. In fact, our government probably despises gold. And fears  (even more than another attack from Al-Quadea) that one day millions of Americans will wake up and start buying the stuff in mass.
Anyway, that’s my assumption and I’m sticking to it.  This is also why I think manipulation is here to stay.
Bill Rice, Jr. is managing editor of The Montgomery (AL) Indpendent. He can be reached via e-mal at: bill@montgomeryindependent.com

Comments

  1. Hahaha. Look at gold and silver today. Anyone holding it is getting absolutely RINSED.

    • Any stacker has seen it a million times before. Looking at your list of comments makes me wonder why the fukk you are here? Perhaps to try to enjoy the misery of others or to mock people you don’t know?
       
      Do us all, principally yourself a big favor and go fukk start your uncle’s face (again).
       
       

    • Get your laughs in whilst you can…..he who will laugh last is the one who owns real things when the ponzi hits the fan.

    • @dirtlump
       
      These guys are not here to enjoy our misery, they are usually paid tolls who’s function it is to cause uncertainty during down swings in the price. It’s the “other side” of the price suppression industry. The trolls want to hurt prices, not us per se……
       
      Nothing personal, just business……..

    • Well I don’t care about this as a stack other than this is a buying day. Now from time to time I play the ETF game (AGQ) and when I do days like this tick me off!

    • Don’t come knocking at my door when the dollar crumples. You will get met with a gun

  2. I never commented during the ‘JPM is going long’ discussion because I didn’t want to be a Debbie Downer.
    I figured they were reloading their vault to keep making deliveries (to investors that refused greenbacks) as they continue to short it into oblivion.
    Their paper trade absolutely dwarfs all PMs in existence, to the tune of trillions. (derivatives).
    Tough beans for us, but the production problems this year might just trip them up.

  3. Keep in mind that the minners are loosing a tremendous amount of money. Maybe their plan is to bankruplt minning companies in order to buy them out. After all these are real assets and they know it.

    • What makes you think they don’t already own the miners? They own everything else, right? When you can print “money” [or currency] who cares about recking everyone else?

  4. Canadian Dirtlump, there is not going to be a collapse. That is the part you like others are completely missing. You’re going to look back at yourself in a few years time and realize how very stupid you looked. YOU can not beat your masters, remember that. Blythe Masters on the other hand is a TRUE master, something you can only dream of.
    You thought you could get rich with metals. I’d agree that if you got your timing right, you could have bought and sold and made a tidy sum. The bubble in gold and silver burst and it started last year. It really isn’t hard to believe this however as that’s exactly what ALL markets do. If you’re in a position to sell now and still come out unscathered, I would recommend you do this. Even if you have to take a small loss. It’s people who bought gold and silver over the last 2 years I feel sorry for. Yes, they were naive and probably only have themselves to blame, but when scum gold and silver pushers had a hand in all of this, I sometimes can’t help feel really sad.
    People like Sinclair need castrating. Anyone who follows these turds to this day are the biggest losers on the planet. Remember what I said earlier on…. YOU CAN NOT BEAT YOUR MASTERS, REMEMBER THAT.

    • A pre 1965 quarter has enough value to buy more than a gallon of gas just like it did in 1965. A 1965 and newer quarter can buy you a gum ball, maybe! I think that is checkmate!

    • apparently I wasn’t clear enough, you 2 bit low end volunteer assho1e bleacher. Report to the nearest fire, and die in it.

    • You recommend sell now? Haha. You funny guy. Who is buying these days? Sovereigns and Chinese and Russian billionaires. So what do you know they do not?
       
      Your reasoning is spurious at best and comedic at worst.

    • The population of india might have a different opinion…Thailand too… in fact most of the world. Since China+India=capital + growth

    • @purplesky needs some clarification on what’s real or what is fiat? The reason UNITED STATES INC. is in Syria is because US INC. hates competition. Another reason the Petro-dolla is up is because of manipulation. This has been proven over the last 5 thousand years. As others have said, go Fu©K yourself.

  5. BetterThanNoSN wrote: Get your laughs in whilst you can…..he who will laugh last is the one who owns real things when the ponzi hits the fan.

    Jeez, just jeez.
    Gold and silver are no more real than paper currency. They are all as worthless as each other, it’s just you’ve been brainwashed into thinking otherwise. The ponzi scheme already broke last year as far as gold and silver is concerned, and this years it’s really accelerating. Once the paper ponzi starts coming down, it will be cushioned by bringing down gold and silver further, therefore it will look like there was no ponzi to start with.

    • purpleksy,
      Physical Gold and Silver are finite resources. Paper currency is not. This is not that complicated purpleksy.

    • LOl gold and silver have been money for thousands of years. You think its a ponzi scheme when it takes a load of energy to get it off the ground. unbacked paper and digital numbers are pozi schems, why you might ask well because they always fail unlike real hard asset.
      Gold’s low from 1915-2013 was $212 in 1971 when adusting for inflation that is over $970 dollars today. So yes it’s possible for gold and silver to go down but in reality gold has kept it’s purchasing power for thousands of years.

    • You are incredibly stupid and ignorant and a lousy troll to boot.
       
      GTFO of here clown.

  6. Gold and silver have had a good run for several years. Those in the know had taken advantage of it and made a quick buck by buying and selling at the right times. For the rest though.. we’ll you’ve been royally raped up the backside. There should be absolutely no shock whatsoever that gold and silver can now drop by 90% or more as it did the exact same thing on the way up, i.e went up by 90% and more. For god sake, are people really so THICK in the head these days or what?

    • Do you really have all this time to be giving free financial “advice”? Your comments are everywhere on both SD and Zerohedge.
      Your motives are clear, and it is apparent to all, you have unscrupulous intentions.

      Regarding your unfounded convinction in being ”unable to beat your masters”, I would refer you to take a look at history. A history replete with Revolutions and economic crises. These people are not Gods despite what you and they themselves, may think. Econimics can be controlled when the weather can be controlled.

      Silver and gold will go much higher, and that will be due to the continuance of a shift in power from west to east. The east will dictate when the paper game is up. For the power lies within Russia and China to end it tomorrow.

      I’ll probably be recognizing this dip in the form of another physical purchase–you should do they same. Good luck, you’re gonna need it.

  7. Manipulate to $1 for all I care, all the more for me to buy.  It may be awhile yet but the US is in its economic death throes.  When the economy begins to exhale its last breaths it’ll be nice to see my very meager stack staring back at me.
    Don’t forget the other most important PM’s out there; Pb/Zn-Cu.  Those will help make sure your Ag stay’s yours.

  8. CD   Where did that comment come from?  F***start your uncle’s face.
    It’s hysterical. That has to be a Canadian oil patch saying.

  9. PoorMansGold, no there won’t be any gold and silver to buy at all, no matter what the price. The stage is now set by TPTB to destroy as much gold and silver as they can. It’s working as well. It won’t matter if you have in your possession any PMs either as it won’t be worth anything. The price is fixed by the paper price and there is nothing you can do about it.

    • Gold is worth something to me. And no doubt if I gave it to you @purplesky, you would receive it with pleasure. You talk but you don’t believe what your saying. 
       
      Who are these powers that be? Government is you and me.
       
      If your talking about central banks, the game is up, credit default swaps were the tip of the iceberg. Worse is to come. What is coming next will shake the foundations of the Fiat church. Many of the false idols will burn. Value will be judged and investigated afresh. Many chickens will be bartered for gold. My gold! Bwah ha ha! I am the lizard king!

  10. Eaglesteel, you don’t even know how much physical gold and silver there is out there. In any case, it matters not how much of it there is, it’s still useless in any case. Just because something is rare does not mean to say it actually has any value. Perceived value in some eyes, maybe, but unless it can actually do something useful, then it is of little use.
    Many gold and silver bugs try to justify the price or their PM’s based on the belief that they are rare metals. What they fail to realize however is the usefullness of their stash. If a government tells it’s people it has no value, then it HAS NO VALUE. It’s not rocket science folks. You do what you’re ordered to do by your government, always and forever, the way it’s always been.

    • Silver and gold is perceived as Money by the world, not just the U.S. Silver and gold are considered money as per the U.S. Constitution. Silver’s literal translation in a multitude of languages is “money”.
      Convenient for you as well to completely omit the commodity aspect of silver. Where silver’s elemental properties are used in myriad industrial applications and can be found in just about every electronic device. This alone will put a floor under the price of silver and that is the cost of mining.

    • @Purplesky,
       
      In your opinion, what is has value?, the same argument about value could be placed on anything. So, lets take the American Dollar, that’s valuable because??? What use has paper got??? I mean you can’t write on a dollar, you can’t make paper planes out of them, what are they good for, wheres the intrinsic worth. Now I don’t know about you, but placing intrinsic value on abstract concepts to me is plain silly. What exactly is a dollar? what is it 1 of?
       
      Now gold…its created in super nova explosions, can not be artificially created by man. Can not be artificially inflated, depreciated, manipulated. It is what it is. Oh and its Gold coloured, very heavy…and makes you go all giddy if you look at it too long.
       
      Everything has a value, somethings are perceived to be more valuable than others, valuable things are coveted, wanted…gold is one of them.
       
      And as for useful…how much is a dollar worth in the UK….67p…can I use it to buy anything…nope..have to convert it first, change it at a money lender shop…they take a cut, makes it around 50p…what can I get for 50p…Mars bar, if I am lucky…
       
      Now Gold…I can take that any place on the planet…and swap it for something of equal value, none of that converstion rubbish, just a straight swap. Intrinsic worth is worth more than perceived worth. If I took $30 dollars of gold to any country, and $30 dollars in cash, which one would I get the most stuff for?
       
       
       
       

    • Purpleksy you are beyond help. Billions of people view gold and silver as sound money so government can go pound salt if they make that outlandish claim. Also gold and silver do actually do something; they are used in electronics everywhere. In fact the only way we know that you’re a moron is because silver gives you that ability to type incoherent B.S. on your computer, smart phone, or tablet. Again CHECKMATE!

    • @purplesky: “you do as you are ordered by your government, always and forever, the way it’s always been.” IMO you are an illuminati traitor working for the overthrow of all civilization. Your intentions are evil and you are the lowest type of yellow dog scum that has ever walked this earth. 

    • Silly @purplesky, absolutely Silly.

      I need not respond to your posts because silvedoctors is giving a browny button every time people counter acts your position. BYE

  11. If you got into gold and  silver in the last 2 years, you gambled. Plain and simple. You listened to the likes of Sinclair who has proven to have gotten in so wrong in the last few years. This guy is now a laughing stock. You could say he has lost his marbles. I wouldn’t be suprized to see Sinclair in a psyciatric ward before too long, which is probably where a lot of his Johnny late commers will end up. 

    • What is your net worth priced in USD/Au/real estate compared to Sinclair’s?
       
      That’s what I thought.

    • Presumptuous and arrogant to think all of us here made investment decisions based on the advise of one man. Many of us are in this space because of our own research, not because of the due diligance of others. Analytical thought and historical research is how the intelligent and disciplined arrive here.
      You sound bitter. I wouldn’t be surprised if you are describing yourself in your own comments, and find purging these thoughts as cathartic. Sorry to hear you bought at the highs and sold at the lows due to following the advice of one or several “advisors”.

    • I suppose you’re right if you bought to make a quick buck.  But I would submit that many are in PM’s for the long run.  It’s a store of wealth, no matter how low it goes with whatever currency you’re using it against it will maintain it’s value (the old example of a good suit in the 20′s vs a good suit now is appropriate here).

      Yeah, I agree, if I wanted to sell my Ag NOW that I bought even six months ago I’d be hosed; but that’s not why I hold it.  I hold it to make sure that whatever happens to the US dollar I still have some sort of wealth for whatever the new currency is.  For most PM’s are a long, long term strategy.  If you want to lose money short term they have a place for that, its initials are DJIA.

      Advice is just that, advice.  One must gather all the information available, look at their individual situation and decide what’s best for them.  Don’t have extra food in the cupboards?  You shouldn’t be buying PM’s.  You get the idea.


  12. The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

    Metalor just started minting these and I got sum – $1 over – got em on the spot.
    My guy used to have all kinds of scrap single ounces for me even when when it was $45 an ounce.
    This is all he has now for sale. Called Metalor and confirmed these are being stamped out by same press that is doing Eagles but further questions require a background check
     

  13. @purplesky  How do you explain the massive importation of gold and silver into China, Russia and India?  Are their large banking interests just as mindless as us PM buyers here in the US?  Have you seen what has happened to the Indian Rupee (record gold price in Rupees)?  What would you rather have your money in when that happens here?  Your comments on gold and silver are myopic when they do not consider what happens around the world.  The world is moving toward gold and silver.  You either join that movement or get left behind.

    • Chicagomark, see my post about China, Russia and India.
      You know these countries are importing massive amounts of gold and silver because they’ve told you so? Who exactly has told you this? Why are you privy to such information? The US government is also in on it too.
      China, Russia and India have very little interest in gold and silver actually. They don’t need it as it’s useless. Pretty obvious that one though.

  14. Ok, there are a few references to China, Russia and India in this thread so far, so rather than reply to all of the posts individually, one will suffice. 
    You lot give China, Russia and India FAR more credit than what they deserve. I bet most of you have never even been to these countries before to see exactly how corrupt they are. You can bet your bottom dollar that if China says it’s buying shed loads of gold, it’s doing the exact opposite.

    • Please back your opinions with facts.
       
      Gold’s low from 1915-2013 was $212 in 1971 when adusting for inflation that is over $970 dollars today.
       
      Silver low from 1915-2013 was $4.13 in 1931 when adusting for inflation that is over $50.60

    • purplesky – to claim that China is dumping boat loads of gold is either bat shit crazy, or else straight up disinfo.
      It looks like the rest of the regular SD readers have already put you in your place so I won’t waste further time.

      -Doc

    • @gilberto
      “Silver low from 1915-2013 was $4.13 in 1931 when adusting for inflation that is over $50.60″   —- today?
      so the century’s low is higher that today’s price is that what you mean? :-)

    • I won’t claim to agree on the position that AU/AG are worthless or that R-I-C don’t want any, but I totally agree with purplesky that these countries could give the USA lectures on corruption.
      I also agree with purplesky that governments are ultimately in control, and that one day soon (how soon I do not know), no man might buy or sell, save he that has the mark of the beast in his right hand or forehead. When that day comes, I’ll agree that stacks of silver and gold won’t do much.
      Those are the points I agree with.

  15. I’m thinking purplesky’s only thing of  value is his purple prose.  Last time I checked, talk’s cheap.

  16. Eaglesteel, you don’t need large amounts of gold and silver in electronics, in fact, these days you actually don’t need any at all. In any case, that’s another industry that’s out of it’s prime: electronics. How many more mobile phones do people need? Although speaking of gold and silver use in electronics, most of it gets recycled from USED electronic equipment. Yes that’s the word, RECYCLED. You get it, the same gold and silver goes around and around for ever.

    • purplesky,
      The silver is not recycled from electronics as it is not cost efficient. Once prices rise to the right levels it will be. Either way your argument in mute as silver has value no matter what. Your two cents however is not worth a continental.
       

  17. Doc, I wouldn’t expect anything other than to come on a site like this and give an alternate view of gold and silver and be shot down. Nobody has “put me in my place” at all. We’ll see what happens over the next 10 years shall we?

    • @purplesky,
       
      Next 10 years? How about 20? Check the stats, never, and I mean never does the price of gold drop over the long period. 
       
      So you put money into what? Real estate? Shares, stocks, bonds.,,simple savings account. Check the rates of return over the last 20 years, use standard deviation, check your results. Now compare them with gold. 
       
      You have heard about inflation? 
       
      What’s your opinion on the national debt? Pick your country, I don’t care. You think debt is infinite?
       
      You do understand how Fiat currency works?
       
      You do understand that gold and silver are rare, precious and wanted by the masses?
       
      You do understand that if your using Fiat your cattle right? Part of a self sustaining monster, debt ridden, unsound money?
       
      Read a bit, check out Hayek v Keynes…

    • IMO we won’t have to wait 10 MONTHS.
      We all know the fundamentals. We all see the world turning upside down. 
      Stand pat, be prepared, stack USEFUL Commodities, watch, wait, PRAY.  

  18. WaitingForSilver, you asked me What has value? Well, it means different things to different people. Food is valuable however by everyone and that can not be argued, same with water. Metals are not valuable – you can live without them.

    • This is a perfect statement!!!!  Of course, we would all have to live in a 100% barter world.  I wonder how many dozen eggs it will take to buy a car????  Hmmm…..

    • @poormansgold: you can live without eggs and without a car, so for me that does apply only to water. If one’s hungry, he can still just eat someone else and live only of water and friends.

    • @ddclop:  Well, at some level you’re absolutely right and I can’t argue with that.  But I do think I’ll stick with eggs for breakfast and not the bicep of my buddy! :)

    • @purplesky
       
      You need to look deeper into the abyss my friend. Your not even touching the surface with that statement. I agree food, water are very valuable if you don’t have them, but to get them you need to exchange. Not going to go into the history of exchange and money, but you do understand fungibility. The dollar is a promissory note, nothing more. Its a promise, the government is giving you a credit, that you Joe public can trust. Question is, do you that the government? Do you trust the form of barter? Do you trust notes that are devaluing everyday, just by the act of inflation.
       
      Metals are valuable, guns swords, weapons, all require metal. With a gun I can force you to give me your food. This is called power. But who in their right mind would swap a gun for food, just use the gun, take the food. Wouldn’t last long, but see where we are going. So, back to gold. The middle man, the things that gets you guns, the intrinsically valuable thing that can relieve a man of his gun, sword, wife.
       
      With metal, I can enslave a nation, through force, through power.
       
      I emplore you to read more and type less.

  19. People don’t like to be told the ‘value’ of their assets are depreciating. I mean, who likes bad news, right? I am not spreading disinformation or even trying to wind anyone up. What i’m simply telling people is that world governments are more powerful than you will ever know. Have the little fantasy that you can “beat the system”…. actually you can for short periods of time, but then greed gets the better of you. This has happened with gold and silver. Many people invested a lot into G&S and saw the ‘value’ go up. What happened then was they went in deeper the next time around and bought more, much more. The error was thinking you could “win” again. Let me tell you a thing about all gamblers: they all lose in the end.

    • @purplesky
       
      You talk of value, so what are you measuring gold against? The dollar? Or how many chickens I can get for a troy oz?
       
      You can beat the system, its called natural order. It always kicks in when people think they are smarter than it.
       
      This moment in time, I would much rather have 1 troy oz of gold, than its representation in any Fiat currency. Governments are not powerful, they are selfish and stupid. The people who run the central banks, now they are powerful, private, individuals. But the system is systemically failing. Take a look around, open your eyes. As you so eloquently put, its not rocket science. :-)  

    • Exchanging gold/silver is not a gamble. Its an exchange. Like changing dollars for pounds. Difference is, its a guarantee future value.

    • but that is the thing about gold and silver, i think some (not all) of us are buying as a hedge, converting dollars to a medium that hopefully will buy us the same amount of goods in the future.  If gold is worth less I will not be poor, I will be able to buy the same as I could today (not counting dor minor fluctuations).  In that scenario i would have been better off to just put paper dollars in the bank.  But again this is not an attempt to win, it is an attempt not to lose!
       
      If gold and silver go way up i will not be rich, i will just be protected by my investment.  That proverbial silver quarter sill hopefully buys the same gallon of gas, whether it is $5 or $50 per gallon.  I do not ‘win’ but I do not lose either.
       
      If it is $50, big problem Dr. Jones.

  20. Well then………why are you here if we’re such a bunch of losers?  Not making any sense for you being here, the DOW awaits your money!

  21. Purplesky,

    I hope you enjoyed your moment in the sun–if I can even call it that. Going forward, you will be ignored. This begins immediately from me, and expect it to increasingly happen amongst the rest of the SD community.

    You don’t have cogent arguments, and you lack sensible logic; hence, you provide no value to the community. I’m fine with hearing why the market should do poorly, as long as you have some worthwile arguments–you have none. What you bring here is the same as every troll we’ve experienced– you are just slightly more fervent than the average pest.

    So my suggestion to you is get off your high horse and go somewhere else where your passion and time is actually valued. You are having no efficacy here. Gooday Sir!

  22. @purplesky – congrats, you have achieved the rare feat of moderation.  if/when you are able to post any rational/evidence based posts that benefits the community here, they’ll be approved

    -doc

  23. Yup, the world is an ugly place for sure.  But its ugliness is exactly why the ENTIRE world (governments too) are fleeing back to gold at light speed.  Even the Chinese.  They print their own money and can do so at will and yet are buying gold at a record pace and not because it has some industrial quality.  But you know all this.
     
    Just curious though – you don’t seem to be too dumb of a guy/girl; where are you keeping your wealth (no details of course)?
     
    Mine is spread around in arms, food, Ag, tools, skills, etc.

  24. I must say, Purplesky does give good debate or point of view.
    As far as the above article, and being 100% ALL IN for many years and only sell to pay bills, I tend to believe the article. The players are to big! esp. when they have the FED backing. Prices may stay pretty much as they are for some time. UNTIL something BIG happens. I find it hard that our dumb stupid US citizen will wake up one day and feel he has to buy Ag/Au. WWIII has now been placed on the back burner till another False Flag appears. That I believe would of driven prices High. Now all I can Hope for is that China and Russia announces a new world currency backed by gold and that the Petro-buck is finished. Saudi’s would rather have a shit load of pretty colored metal to look at rather than 1′s and zero’s on a balance sheet or the green and white toilet paper. Oct. 8th should be interesting. a lot of Big things could happen over night in our favor, just have to sit tight and be patient. Russia and Syria, are still on Go for the pipeline, Saudi could really care less, they’ll get the pipeline rent, either way. US inflation will continue to choke out the middle class, to the point of civil war. Retailers will have a record holiday season…NOT!… less jobs, continuing unemployment, no manufacturing, starting to look more like Havana..CUBA. and on and on. Bottom line…THERE IS NO LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL!

  25. Normally the shills and flaks come out when we’re having a (edit :) ) bad day.  Their comments always rend down to the same advice- SELL.
    I smell the stench of fear in the air.
    Or are we to believe these vindictive types are concerned for our financial well-being?
    hahaha

  26. Physical silver is what matters here. Gold, who cares? Not me. The one thing that can not be manipulated is when manufactures of multitudes of products go to the market to buy physical silver and find little to be had. What to do? Paper may work well for building electrolytic capacitors, but try that trick on other components and connectors. Paper is not that useful for killing bacteria and not sure but think it isn’t that good for you to dissolve paper and drink it for health benefits. This forum seems to have attracted several people with metal, I mean mental, disorders. I’m stacking, and will continue to do so, undeterred by the babble from trolls trying to dominate this forum. The trolls are hungry, maybe starvation is a way to get rid of them. Believing in stacking physical silver is necessary on this site to be considered mentally stable, not believing in it is considered a mental illness. Yes, it is relative, but that’s the way it is in our little Silver Doctors world. Resistance is futile and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

  27. Wow…just when I thought I heard it all here comes this “purplesky” fellow and announces that Gold and Silver, the only commodities used for thousands of years,as the only form of real money to survive across all civilisations and their respective defunct fiat currencies, are worthless !!!  Well just dip me in shit and declare a holiday because “purplesky” has spoken!!! Could this guy be any more petulant? Holy cow maybe he just crawled out from his rock and was gifted with Deitific insight only he may possess… or, more likely, he gets a rise outta spouting the most incredibly asinine pipedream driven bullshit this side of the crab nebulae ! Either way…the real world differs with this mindless imp in a big way. Well that’s all I have for our new troll today maybe if he hangs around long enough I’ll tease him with “yo momma” jokes till he begs for mercy. Carry on.

    • You silver tongued devil, you.

    • I would have gladly continued berating our newly contracted disease commonly referred to as “purplesky” but I risked great personal distress and probable physical malady by continued exposure to that wretched excuse for a human. Much like superman exposed to the green form of kryptonite…not really but you know what I mean ;-)

  28. I’m thinking Purplesky is the bastard step child of ILUVPMS and Stacksmack 3000.   There is a saying.  Better to keep one’s mouth shut than blog and remove all doubt. 
    As for the other white meat, ddclop, consider vegans.  Come the revolution just go to Vegan.com   They’re easy to catch, easy to clean, no guts or spine and they cook up pretty nice on the Barbie.    Or was that Schmoos?
     

  29. Amazes me how people put faith into something of no intrinsic value, that someone tells them its valuable. The dollar represents pure manipulation of mind, body and soul.
     
    I just hope people read more and speak less. Money has to be intrinsically valuable else people will debase its value.

  30. well there I go Chrissy  Proving what I was saying by posting what I was trying to say, or something like that. 1 hour wearing the DA hat.

  31. Mostly the article restates the obvious, except that JP Morgan will change sides at the end, why not?     The bible gives us some important perspectives.  First, gold and silver are money.  Second, righteousness exalts a nation while pride will cause it to fall.  Third, we are in the 8th year of plenty, and in the first year of famine (cf. Joseph and the children of Israel as we can still purchase gold or silver while the world is beginning to starve).   The following is the obvious that needs restated:  First, our nation already has failed, we just all have not hit bottom yet.  Second, we are still on a gold/silver standard but it is a musical chair standard, meaning that while the music plays, and it is playing softly now, that we can trade our money for gold or silver.  Third, lets take advantage while we can   : 


     

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