Jim Sinclair Blasts Hugh Hendry, States Unlike 1930′s, Gold Will Not Be Confiscated in Current Bull Market

The legendary Jim Sinclair has released a rebuttal to hedge fund manager Hugh Hendry’s recent statements that gold mining companies will be nationalized and physical gold will be confiscated as the gold price passes $3,000/oz.  Sinclair states that Roosevelt’s gold confiscation of the 1930′s was a means of increasing the supply of money for Fed and Treasury discretionary use- essentially the QE of it’s day.

Sinclair states that neither gold nor gold companies will be confiscated during this bull run: Gold was not confiscated because it was going up in price. Gold’s order of confiscation came as a tool of monetary stimulation in order to create monetary creation in order to attempt to increase employment. The order of gold confiscation had nothing whatsoever to do with punishment of the gold holders. It preceded the then big run up in the gold price. Believers in confiscation, because they are incorrect on its basis, are totally wrong in predicting it.

MUST READ!!

From Jim Sinclair:

This is major rumor control that I feel you must understand if you are to know gold.

I am sick of all this confiscation talk of gold and even gold companies. It emanates from gold people who do not know or understand the history of gold. We condemn MSM for inaccurate, false and misleading news. I condemn gold writers who practice sensationalism, who offer their opinions as if they were facts and simply make things up out of thin air as if they were insiders privy to things that no one else is. Right now leaders of this community are printing stuff as misleading as MOPE or MSM ever have.

Apparently the Scottish hedge fund manager Hendrey, who is by his own admission “short some gold shares,” is warning about confiscation without remuneration of gold companies above gold $3000. Either he has never studied gold history, or totally misunderstood its role in the 1930s.

Eric De Groot put what I have been trying to teach you perfectly today. In the 1930s gold was to the monetary system what QE is today, a means of increasing the supply of money for Fed and Treasury discretionary use. The US Secretary of the Treasury and President Roosevelt set the gold price higher at their daily breakfast together arbitrarily. Higher because to create money then the system required a higher value of gold to have more money outstanding. This is why Roosevelt ordered the confiscation of gold in order to unfold his type of monetary stimulation, his QE. This is what confiscationophiles simply do not know.

Your fears and the outrageous untrue statement by the Scottish hedge fund manager are based on totally wrong reasoning and misunderstanding. Gold was not confiscated because it was going up in price. Gold’s order of confiscation came as a tool of monetary stimulation in order to create monetary creation in order to attempt to increase employment. The order of gold confiscation had nothing whatsoever to do with punishment of the gold holders. It preceded the then big run up in the gold price. Believers in confiscation, because they are incorrect on its basis, are totally wrong in predicting it. Those that predict confiscation of anything gold love sensationalism and benefit somehow from scaring the dickens out of you unnecessarily.

Gold companies will not be confiscated any more than oil companies were when oil traded at $145. You think this is some sort of punishment for profit? You are thereby fearing something that simply will not happen. You are like an Apple stockholder fearing that the government will confiscate their company because of the popularity of the iPhone.

I am sorry to see how gullible some of you can be. If you assume fund manager Hendrey was well meaning in his statement then he disqualifies himself from an understanding of gold’s roll historically in monetary science. That then disqualifies his position actually published in this community. Any source that published Hendrey’s false confiscation Dogma statement without this clarification is demonstrating the writer’s ignorance of gold and its purpose in the 1930s. If you do not understand what gold was then you will never understand the new role that gold will play.

In terms of rumor control, Turkey has not remonetized gold by giving it Tier 1 status as an asset. Nobody can state as fact the condition of the gold deposits at the NY Fed or Fort Knox. You can speculate on what has occurred but what I hear being said so far is gold MOPE and gold MSM.

Please, my friends, keep your feet on the ground. Fund Manager Hendrey is totally correct on the gold price at $3000. I might add at $3000 plus.

Respectfully,
Jim

Comments

  1. Gee, I guess he feels strongly about it.
     
    In the end, time will tell if he is right or wrong, but that could be a long ways away.
     
    Maybe if gold plays a new role then governments will need to control its access.

  2. Way to go Jim!!

    I keep trying to tell others that confiscation is a fear and not truth. In 33 not one arrest!! Not everybody turned in there gold!! They did not come to your door with guns lol!!. They payed you the value of the gold!! They out lawed Coinage & Bullion!! They rased the price when they felt satisfied they retrieved what they were going to. Bought at $20.67 price rased to $35.00 hence Jim’s QE 1.   

    When something is “”Confiscated”" It is taken from you! What they did was a forced sale.

    Now that said I would not have my gold or silver in a safety deposit box, Most of my buying is cash transactions. Gold and Silver is malleable metal it melts and can be formed into anything. They did not take your Jewelry or Art work! hell you can cast it to look like a hammer head lol 

    Order 6102 specifically exempted “customary use in industry, profession or art”—a provision that covered artists, jewellers, dentists, and sign makers among others. The order further permitted any person to own up to $100 in gold coins (a face value equivalent to 5 troy ounces (160 g) of Gold valued at about $7800 as of 2011). The same paragraph also exempted “gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.” This protected recognized gold coin collections from legal seizure and likely melting.

     

    • “Bought at $20.67 price rased to $35.00 hence Jim’s QE 1.”

      In other words, the US dollar was devalued by about 70% and this devaluation showed up in the increased price of gold.  IMHO, that was a right royal financial screw job.  Gee, thanks FDR.  :-(

      “When something is “”Confiscated”” It is taken from you! What they did was a forced sale.”

      When someone takes something that I own and want and then “pays” me for it in something I do not want (fiat), that IS theft, IMHO.  Yes, that is better than an outright theft with no payment but only by degree and not by substance.

      Yes, people voluntarily either turned in their gold OR didn’t but there was a BIG stick in this EO… a $10k fine, a 10 year jail term, or both.  $10k then was like $250k today.  In either case, it was a serious threat and many Americans took it seriously and turned in any gold they owned that was above the $100 limit.  None of my relatives turned in a lot of gold because only one of them had any and he was a crafty old curmudgeon  who buried his gold and didn’t tell ANYONE where he buried it… even his wife.  With no records to go on, there was no way the government could get at his gold.

      The bottom line is that in 1933, gold was MONEY and that was the point of confiscation.  Today, gold is not recognized by the government as money so there is no reason to confiscate it.  In addition, gold ownership is VERY low today, unlike in 1933.  Yes, it could be confiscated again but that would be a rather pointless exercise.  A FAR more tempting target today would be the US $6T in retirement funds.  That is a huge amount of “money” that vastly exceeds the value of privately held gold and silver and it is concentrated among only a few large fiduciaries, where it would be easily stolen… er, “confiscated”.  In exchange for these funds, T-bonds would no doubt be issued in payment.  The argument given would be that “this is necessary to secure American’s retirement funds by replacing those risky stocks and bonds with ultra-safe government bonds… or some such malarkey.  If this happens, it will not be a 1st.  Other governments, such as Japan, have already done this and there is a recommendation out there for the same to be done in the US.
       

    • I wonder Ed_B, Did you miss the point of the thread? It’s about the HYPE and Conspiracy Theory that Jim is calling BS and it is. If you want to and appear to delve in to Theory and HYPE go ahead, I prefer facts. Yes it was a form of QE and all QE devalues the fiat currency it’s directed to. I should say bank note here because we were not total fiat yet.. In 1933 this did not have the global affect on other fiat/bank notes as we were not the world reserver yet.

      As far as the word  ”Confiscated” It’s a HYPE word to describe what truly happened so IMO it’s kind of harsh to invoke fear.

      Confiscation, from the Latin confiscatio ’joining to the fiscus, i.e. transfer to the treasury’ is a legal seizure without compensation by a government or other public authority. The word is also used, popularly, of spoliation under legal forms, or of any seizure of property without adequate compensation.

      Then you go on to say> “ The bottom line is that in 1933, gold was MONEY and that was the point of confiscation.  Today, gold is not recognized by the government as money so there is no reason to confiscate it.” I say falce that ours or any other government dose not look at Gold as money. They just do not want you to consider it money. As of January 1 2013 it will be considered money within our banking system as it will be a tear 1 asset.

      Then you said this>” In addition, gold ownership is VERY low today, unlike in 1933.  Yes, it could be confiscated again but that would be a rather pointless exercise. I disagree with this as well. World population has grown about 500% since then for starters. There is discrepancies in the figurs below and with out digging up privet sales since 1972 I know stackers have surpassed this amount today. 
       

      Approximately 500 tonnes of gold were sold to the U.S. Treasury in 1933 at the rate of $20.67 per troy ounce, although other sources refute this amount stating that 56 tonnes (1.8 million ounces) as a more accurate amount, based on calculations using US Treasury data as well as from Milton Friedman’s book, “The Monetary History of the United States”.

      Just one other point I would like to convey as a staker who knows the difference in monetary mediums.

      I never call anything other than gold and silver “MONEY”
      Bank notes, Fiat, Currency, Dollar, World Reserver, Bonds, Post-it notes, Pukka Shells ( ARE NOT MONEY)

      I never gauge the value of Gold & Silver in a monetary mediums. Such as, Bank notes, Fiat, Currency, Dollar, World Reserver, Bonds, Post-it notes, Pukka Shells

      If you believe that Gold & Silver are the only true money. How the hell can one base the value on a manipulated printable piece of paper?


       

    • @427 You’re right, only fools turned in their gold. Fools that deemed it as an act of patriotism, while it was in reality a despicable act of treason against the people and the founding fathers. 

    • Things were different in 1933.  Americans wanted to help their country.  So, many did sell their gold double eagles to the federal gov’t.  No one expected the devaluation that occurred next.  But, it didn’t matter because they didn’t understand what it meant either.  The exception was many of the very wealthy who protected themselves by physically shipping their gold to Europe.  Most all the pre 1933  Saints and Libs that you can buy today come out of European vaults not hidden American stashes. 

    • Regarding a repeat of a 1933 “confiscation” of private gold.  There are those in the gold community who opine that pre 1933 gold coins are immune from confiscation(forced sale) and they cite Exaecutive Order 6102 that 427 did above in his post about coins of rare value being exempt.  OK, but realize the very law they cite was written in that era and it did not protect $20 gold coins, the very same gold coins they opine are protected today.  Their pre 1933 argument makes no sense.  The only thing that has changed is that seven decades have passed.  

    • Yep dog,

      Jim as with many are just trying to stop the fear mongering around gold. (Don’t buy it they will take it!) (buy it in this forum it’s safer!) 

    • I’ve heard somewhere that the reason why people turned in their golds to the government in 1933 is because back then, people were more patriotic so they were hoping that their country could get out of the Great Depression. After their paper dollars got devalued from 20.67$ to 35$, many people lost their confidences to the government.

  3. Sinclair’s recounting of history is the correct view. Moreover, in even deeper contemplation it points out the futility of willfully ‘fixing’ a nominal relation between silver and gold by decree. These matters are most effectively and efficiently determined in the cosmos of communities comprising the ‘market’. This is naturally in the realm of individual parties engaged in exchanges … NOT their governing institutions.

    When government interjects political ‘regulations’ it molds (reverts in this case) social order under the Mercantilist (proto-collectivist) model. The ’enlightened’ accommodation to seeming mis-valuations in the gold-silver trade ratio is the Capitalist method of allowing the ‘Invisible Hand’ of the ‘Free Market’ to equilibrate the disparity through arbitrage.

     
    “The true theory of our Constitution is surely the wisest and best, that the States are independent as to everything within themselves, and united as to everything respecting foreign affairs. Let the General Government be reduced to foreign concerns only, and let our affairs be disentangled from those of all other nations, except as to commerce, which the merchants will manage the better, the more they are left free to manage for themselves, and our General Government may be reduced to a very simple organization, and a very inexpensive one; a few plain duties to be performed by a few servants.” –Thomas Jefferson

      

  4. Yeah, now that they’ve got the bulk of the gold in their hands, they won’t be confiscating. The very reason why they’re pushing for a gold standard. If they were not holding the bulk of the gold, they would have pushed for confiscation again. This is why even a little gold, not even to mention silver, will go a long way this time around. 

    • Back when banknote credit circulated in tandem with metals, even with government ’legal tender’ and ‘suspension of specie’ decrees, it couldn’t stem the depreciation when overly floated. That was the curiosity surrounding early analysis by folks like Richard Cantillon and Adam Smith.

      As is the case for everyone, money (essentially accumulation of a strongly ‘priced’ trade good) determines security of one’s Liberties. Circumstantial freedom or constraint on one’s compass of action is REALLY what ‘wealth’ and ‘power’ render down to. Government ‘power-greed’ is thus entirely hinged upon maximizing its chosen money (gold, up to the current era … banknotes now …soon to revert BACK to gold) to broaden its capacity to act as it pleases. As gold, silver and copper should be for us; metals are tools to construct defense of our Liberty.

      In a world where government acts as it pleases, history teaches that The People invariably suffer cruel serfdom and deprivation in such degrees as government benefits. So,because silver and copper embody economic leverage against gold’s over-valuation by commercially insulating them from financial dictate, thus ameliorating fiat ‘value’ in ALL the metals by competitive force, this struggle against feints like a ’gold standard’, and alluring psychological brainwash toward gold mono-metalism, must be intransigently resisted.

      Regardless of whether government possesses ALL gold … every single grain … it is ultimately of no consequence if The People possess the ALTERNATIVES of silver and copper. With those tools in hand, they build impenetrable ramparts against government excesses and INDEPENDENTLY maintain ‘that precious jewel’ of the Public’s Liberty.

    • @Patfields

      I agree with you to at least some extent… I believe you will agree for one that bimetallism is evil. I do however differ with you in regards to defending/attacking a gold standard (assuming that I read you correctly).

      For clarification: Bimetallism, a monetary standard where a fixed rate of exchange is set between gold and silver, didn’t work, because they fixed the prices of both gold and silver, separately and in relation to each other. This caused distortions in the market, because the one pushed the other out of the market, creating unnatural and unhealthy shortages. This is not to say that gold and silver are not money or cannot be used as money successfully within the same monetary system, it is to say that the free market should set gold and silver prices (not even to mention other prices!). Yes, natural shortages can develop when honest money such as gold and/or silver is used, but it gives the incentive to mine more gold and/or silver, to expand the money supply in a more healthy and gradual way. What is after all healthy and gradual about ‘monetary’ (currency) expansion when an estimated 9+ tons of ink is used daily just to print fiat dollar notes alone, not even to mention the fiat dollars they create electronically with a few strokes on a keyboard?

      I deem it necessary to speak up against the implementation of any ‘gold standard’ (as already mentioned in my previous posts). A gold standard is ultimately nothing short of a paper promise that is wide open to abuse. Yes, initially all the Plantation Scrip issued under a gold standard might indeed by redeemable for gold (silver and even copper). However, history has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that at some stage or another the backing is impaired by acts of war or treason, which if left unchecked, always lead to unbacked fiat currencies. Even if a gold standard doesn’t get abused, the ones holding most of the gold will call the shots. The argument was never that they hold all the gold or will sit with all the gold at the end of the day. This is why I believe they allow us to own at least some gold (silver and copper), because they know for a gold standard to work, they cannot be sitting with all the gold. The bulk of their success will of course be determined in whether they can effectively deploy the tools at hand (propaganda and what have you) to get the masses to accept a gold standard. How do you think they got the masses to shun money (gold and silver) and embrace fiat currencies? Yes, alternatives will always exist, but like any tool, it can either be used effectively or by large left to collect dust.

      You mentioned that your father taught you: ‘government exists for one purpose alone … to control. If left to its inherent course, it grows to control all it possibly can.’ Your father was clearly a wise man, but I would like to take it one step further: The problem or challenge is not necessarily the fact that government exists to control, but rather that it becomes a problem when good government is hijacked to further a satanic agenda. I believe paper promises, whether it is a gold standard or promises based on a fiat or debt-based currency system, makes it much easier to use a hijacked government(s) to further one’s agenda (assuming of course that the masses still accept the relevant government). I believe so, because it by large opens the door to unhealthy ‘monetary’ (currency) expansion, the kind that helps to start wars and what have you.

      Thus, I am a strong supporter of a system where:

      1. Only real money (gold, silver and copper coins and/or bars) is used, not the promise thereof (any standard or what have you).

      2. Zero interest is charged on loans.

      3. The tax rate is penned at 10%.

    • Excellent post silverbullion!

  5. @silverbullion … “You’re right, only fools turned in their gold”

    Absolutely correct! If The Peoples of every country of the world should realize one solitary lesson from America’s institution and the central message of its Beloved Founders, it ought be NEVER to blindly trust government … as my Dad taught me, ‘government exists for one purpose alone … to control. If left to its inherent course, it grows to control all it possibly can.’

    • Also, why would anyone trade their gold for pieces of paper. Why should I trade gold that took some energy to produce it and it has intrinsic value for fiat currencies that have no intrinsic value and they are easy to produce so they’ll lose value faster. This is a common sense that the majority of the people don’t have!

  6. confiscation happened because the dollar was fixed to the gold rate … they confiscated gold to devalue the dollar if they hadnt confiscated the gold then the devaluation would have minimal effect other than to increase the wealth of the gold rich …  

    • @binahmax Yes, that’s the official story (more or less). However, both the confiscation and devaluation were treason and thievery at best… because more dollars had to chase the same products/services than before.

      “if they hadnt confiscated the gold then the devaluation would have minimal effect other than to increase the wealth of the gold rich” – So what you’re saying is that all the Americans who owned real money at the time, namely gold, had no right to protect themselves against the theft of currency devaluation. The gold rich was the American people at large at the time. Now the gold rich are those bastards who have hijacked the U.S. Government to further their satanic agenda. They would have never pushed for a gold standard now if the bulk of the gold was still in the hands of the American people at large. 

    • the fact of the matter is gold was legal tender the dollar was on the gold standard a dollar could be exchanged through the fed for gold … when they confiscated the gold it was to reset the rate … it was quantative easing if they hadnt confiscated gold then they would have only devalued half the legal tender ie the dollar … your right it was theft it was piracy but every time they devalue the dollar it is theft it is piracy … every time they print another gazillion dollars everyone with savings suffer. The great thing about them breaking from the gold standard is that gold is no longer legal currency it wont be confiscated stackers everywhere will not have to worry about confiscation.
      i can already hear the screams that of course they can … but i think your wrong i dont think they have to… the fact is now that they have the theft and fraud so well managed that as each day goes by the middle classes are being ground into the dirt. The reality is most stackers are already being confronted with decisions around selling silver to meet an urgent need …the confiscation will occur naturally with the impoverishment of the 99%

  7. Jim’s explanation should be understood by anyone fearing confiscation. In 1933, the individual owner of gold felt like living on an island. Letting others know he had gold was not wise. Information was slow in being disseminated In 1933. Consequently, an individual could be made to believe that it was him against the government. Not realizing he actually had nothing to fear. In this modern age of computers instant access to information and news, the government cannot operate as a pack of wolves trying to scare people out of their PM As easily as they did in 1933. It does not mean though, the government doesn’t still have a few surprises for us in the not to distant future.

  8. Unless you can be so sure beyond a shadow of a doubt, Gold will not be confiscated or Mines taken over by the Gov’t, I’d keep my mouth shut.

    My record on predicting the future is amazing, and I say there’s a DAMN good chance it could happen.  It’s already been addressed in a recent Obama EO.  It’s ALWAYS been about the GOLD.  All through out history.

    • @SilverHawk You’re right. I wouldn’t be surprised if they confiscate, it can go both ways, although I don’t believe they will attempt it this time around. You cannot sit with all the gold and effectively implement a gold standard. They sit with most of the gold, so I don’t think we will see a confiscation. Then of course they might confiscate for redistribution, in order to win over the masses, lol

    • The mines that would be more likely ‘nationalized’ are the mines in other countries, like Bolivia.  

    • Ya, better safe than sorry.

      Besides, confiscation could be arranged in different ways.

      For nationalization… look at what is happening already.

      “Subtle” demands by gov’ts to increase ownership
      Yesterday there was one for Congo?

      Today Kenya.

      http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-30/kenya-in-talks-with-base-goldplat-on-new-local-ownership-rules

      Remember when PAA got hammered last year (or was it earlier this year?) due to scare of nationalization of mines?

      It may not be come as a change in monetary regime, but due to the need for more revenues.

    • So King Obama says turn in your gold. Those who hate him will promptly hide what they have and maybe turn in a few ounces saying this is it, I sold the rest because of your crappy economic policies.
       
      They try door to door collection the collectors are going to be a very very high risk job with many meeting lead instead of gold.

  9. @silverbullion you stated that … “I am a strong supporter of a system where:
    1. Only real money (gold, silver and copper coins and/or bars) is used, not the promise thereof.
    2. Zero interest is charged on loans.
    3. The tax rate is penned at 10%.

    On item one I can’t more completely concur. Money of copper, silver and gold served faithfully for 5 millennia and humankind suffered every time that standard was diverted from.

    On item two, I can’t more completely DIS-agree. To borrow money is to deny another’s present use of it until some future date and there must be a compensatory mechanism for that denial or it is in plain fact … theft … of the precious time that that money was missing from the owner’s availability. There isn’t anything wrong with the incentive of interest … on money. There IS a WORLD of difference when that ‘interest’ is on borrowing purely of someone’s mere ‘reputation’. THAT is a fraud on third parties because such an arangement is only truly binding on the original principals. In such cases, the proper mechanism for conveyance of credit is through Real Bills.

    I also disagree with item three, in that government has a right to levy as much tax as it … commensurately doles out in SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED AND ACCOUNTED services provided. If someone uses NO government services, he is under NO obligation … and vice-versa. Proper ‘tax’ is a fee for services rendered and like any other service, if it’s over-priced in the competitive free market of similar or identical services, then it’ll garner use accordingly.  

    • @Patfields
      I am writing from a first century primitive non-Judeo Christian perspective or point of view…

      To loan money will be out of free choice and logic dictates that it will only come out of excess, meaning that if I’ve got enough money to survive and prosper, I can surely spare some to help out a brother/sister in need by loaning him/her money at zero interest. No theft occurs, because the act is voluntarily and we’re dealing with money, not fiat currency that almost constantly loses purchase value. The reward will be for one to see the brother/sister survive and even to see them expand God’s portion of the earth by bringing children unto His name into this world. He/she will pay me back the money when he/she is in a position to do so. In addition to charging no interest on the money loaned, God’s Law dictates that I am not to press the brother/sister in terms of paying back the money. By the time they pay me back, the money will still have more or less the same value, because there are no parasites that constantly steal a portion of production (providing that we as a people have not embraced evil). It is an act of honourable brotherly love where common-interest is placed above self-interest in a way that builds up both the individual and the body politic/government/church.

      When I write “The tax rate is penned at 10%”, I mean a system where personal income is taxed at a rate of 10%. All other taxes are done away with. 

    • I agree with you Pat on this one. As far as tax I do feel it’s unavoidable for all, It would be kind of hard to stay off a roadway. Although one can argue that the government scared the free land up. And what they didn’t scar up they Nationalized in the way of National Parks…  

    • @silverbullion.  The Bible is very clear that gold and silver are to be money.  God could have assigned pieces of papyrus with a picture of the Pharoah to be money.  This whole business of ‘usury’ is totally misunderstood, I believe because Bible scholars no nothing about monetary theory. 

      The Bible talks about both usury and interest.  They are two separate concepts.  

      Interest is like rent.  In his Parable about the Talents, Jesus talks about receiving interest on a bank deposit as being better than buring your money in a hole.

      Two different greek words are translated to mean usury.  That’s where the confusion arises.  One means ‘ordinary’ interest like interest on a bank account.  The other means interest that ‘takes a bite’, that punishes.  That would be what the Federal Resrve Bank does.  

      The type of interest created with the issuance of debt based credit money(today’s fiat money) is the usury that God forbids and despises.   It enslaves entire populations.  Control the currency and you control the country. 

      In today’s world God’s money has been supplanted with debt based money.  God’s money acheives its inherent value through its rarity and the hard work required to mine, refine, and mint it into circulation.  Gov’t money has no inherent value and comes into circulation with a computer click.

      Amazing that over time the world’s gold supply has only increased 1-2% per annum.  The perfect sustained economic growth rate. 

    • @UglyDog I will say this much… “interest” on loans (unearned income) should not be confused with “return” (earned income). I don’t plan to entertain it at length here, but will quote some scripture that are self-explanatory…

       “Now if you lend silver to a poor brother near you, you shall not press him; you shall not apply interest to him” (Exodus 22:25 LXX).

      “You shall not charge interest to your brother, interest on money and interest on provisions and interest on any thing that may be lent. To a stranger you shall charge interest, but to your brother you shall not charge interest, so that the Lord your God may bless you in all your works in the land into which you are entering there to inherit it” (Deut. 23:19 LXX). 

    • The confusion is in the translation from the Greek into English and then within English as the meaning of some words has shifted over time.  When you go back to the Greek the interest(our word) that God despises is the type that enslaves, like fiat money.  That is different word in the Greek from the interest(our word) that means rent, like interest on a bank account.  When the Bible was translated into English, fiat money didn’t exist and translators did not know enough to understand the distinction.  But, when you read the Bible in Greek today through the lens of modern economic theory the distinction is quite evident.  Problem is Bible scholars and commentators don’t know anything about economic theory so it’s all lost on them and this teaching has never entered into mainstream seminaries, etc.

  10. One Smart Phone GPS app      $5
    One 50 caliber ammo can        $15
    One steel shovel                    $20
    Peace of mind                       Priceless

    One little white lie—”I lost all my gold in a canoe accident, honest’    FREE
    nuff sed

  11. …or piece of mind. lol

  12. SB   Dumb or Dead?   I’ve been married 20 years.  Just call me Possum Pete  KWIM

  13. I am and then some 427.  Thanks for the compliment.  My wife is very tolerant  but equipped  with a good supply of WMDs to keep me in line

  14. @427 … “It would be kind of hard to stay off a roadway.”

    Those are the Public’s ways. People have a right to freely use them … in their private Persons.

    It’s an eye-opener to delve into State Law books pre-dating 1932. The sole activity that required ‘license’ to use the Public’s ways, was to pursue a business on them because that constituted obstruction and hinderence of other people’s free exercise.

    The origin of ‘road tax’ that stealthily transmogrified into ‘vehicle registration’ and ‘driving license’ lay in … business use.

    One of my most delightful books to puruse is Black’s LD, which (loosely) defines ‘registry’ as entry upon a tax roll and ‘license’ as permission from an appropriate authority to engage in unlawful activity. Now ‘Law’, it’s enlightening to know, is NOT statute. Statute is directive upon government’s agents on how to administer the Laws.

  15. So true Pat   Recent a private treasure hunter found one of the most perfect hoards of gold coins, about 180 in all, buried in a field in england.  These coins were in perfect condition despite the fact that they were over 1,800 year old.  Very Fine grade, and some of the best of their era.   I guess the poor schmuck that buried them forgot his GPS locator.

  16. @silverbullion … ”I mean a system where personal income is taxed at a rate of 10%. All other taxes are done away with.”

    You might find it surprising that courts at all levels have ‘found’ that a common wage is NOT a taxable subject. When one perceives his wage (fees for his services) to nevertheless be taxable … and assumes the Person of a government ‘Tax Collector’, only THEN, proceeding in such Person (a ‘Person’ is standing at Bar), is he liable to ‘return’ said tax. The Internal Process of government, pertaining ONLY to it’s Agents then kicks in. Under such Internal Process, the Tax Collector is … presumed guilty and subject to ‘disgorgement’  until he proves that such tax he agreed to collect had in fact been … ‘returned’.

    “Government should not take out of the mouth of labor the bread it has earned.” –Thomas Jefferson

         

    • @Patfields To write that “…courts at all levels have ‘found’ that a common wage is NOT a taxable subject” is simply not true. In addition, personal income can also be derived in ways that go past the common wage, not that it matters when it comes to the 10% tax rate on personal income.

      I answer to an authority much higher than Thomas Jefferson (or any man for that matter). Anyhow, what I take from Jefferson’s quote is that people should not be taxed to the point where they starve to death. It is more a case of limits pertaining to taxing than to say there should be no taxing at all. 

    • Here’s how it works.  Most people don’t know this. Briefly.  The voluntary income tax is the repayment system(collateral) to the central bank for the issuance of debt based fiat paper money.  Courts have ruled that you “volunteer” for the income tax when you use federal reserve notes.  The standard deduction is meant to offset the coins issued by the Treasury.  That’s why the income tax and the Fed were created at the same time.  You can try to make the legal argument about definition of wages, income, etc. not being subject to the income tax.  However, you lose because you opt-in to their system just by using their bank note.  Their game.  Their rules.

  17. LMAO I thought this was going to be a boaring read but you guys had me LMAO thanks, made a bad morning turn out ok.

  18. Great posts on this thread.
    Thanks, everyone!

    Nothing for me to contribute, please move along…   

  19. @uglydog … “The voluntary income tax is the repayment system(collateral) to the central bank for the issuance of debt based fiat paper money.”

    True. The key term being ‘voluntary’. Of course neither of us can fully explain all the nuances of ‘the trap’ in this sort of venue constrained to brief commentary on single points. All we can hope for is that the ‘ripples’ we create by our little revelations prompt enough curiosity in others to delve further into the subjects. I’ve spent nearly three decades digging into these things and STILL continue to discover new aspects of them regularly.  So, I don’t delude myself into imagining I actually teach anything more than … reasons … for folks to begin digging their own ‘knowledge mines’.

  20. That’s why you should own more physical silver than gold because it has way less chances of getting confiscated by the government. Right now, we should first focus on the 2000$ per ounce of gold’s price instead of focusing on the 3000$ price.

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