Is Sub-$1000 Gold in the Cartel’s Script?

no gold for youAs gold broke below the psychologically important level of $1,200 an ounce late in December of 2013, the mainstream financial media burst with headlines like this one from Marketwatch, “Gold’s Safe-Haven Role is Over“.  The Nobel prize winning economist from The NY Times, Paul Krugman, penned a wicked missive on the ‘barbarous relic’ by invoking Keynes and the absurdity of miners going to “great lengths to dig cash out of the ground, even though unlimited amounts of cash could be created at essentially no cost with the printing press.”
Gold is much more than an investment, it’s the backbone of liberty.  Without it we will be led by the banksters and their shills down the merry way of slavery, plutocracy and totalitarianism.
It’s in the script.

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Submitted by Robert Bonomo

The basis of a vibrant and dynamic society is an open and free marketplace where people ‘vote’ with their decisions on where to spend money, where to live, what to read, who to vote for, etc.  In the United States, a good example of what occurs when decisions are centralized is healthcare and education-  the key decisions are made outside the mainstream of the marketplace and the country ranks far below the rest of the developed world, even behind countries with considerably less economic wealth.  As central planning and regulations remove potential players and solidify the positions of special interests, the quality of education and healthcare has plummeted.

So what does this have to do with the price of gold?  Everything.

What is Money?

Gold is money.  Federal Reserve Notes are not money on one important score; they are a poor long term store of value.  One ounce of gold in 1938 was worth just about $35 and a new car was worth $860.  If a new car dealer took the money from the sale of a new car in 1938, converted it to gold and gave that gold to his new born son, when the boy turned 75 in 2013 he could have bought a brand new Toyota Camry with the gold his father had given him.  If instead, the father had given him the cash, he could have gone out and bought himself a fancy new bicycle with the dollars he’d held on to for 75 years.

If the old man, feeling flush, tossed in an extra ounce of the ‘barbarous relic’ for gas in 1938 his son could have bought about 350 gallons of gas for the ounce of gold.  If the kiddo had held on to the gas money in the form of gold, he could have, in 2013, bought almost the exact amount, 360 gallons. But if the youngster had made the mistake of converting his ounce of gold into dollars, he could have, in 2013, bought a good bottle of Spanish wine with the Federal Reserve Notes he received in 1938 for his ounce of gold.
.
Money is a means of exchange, AND a store of value.  The dollar is a great means of exchange but it’s a pitiful store of value.

In essence, money is work.  If someone wants to sell 1,000 kilos of wild salmon for $10,000 he might find a few buyers who, if they wanted to proceed, would ask about delivery.  If the seller pointed toward the cold waters off the Alaskan coast and indicated that the fish were out there swimming around, he wouldn’t have any buyers at any price.  When someone pays for fish, they are not paying money for the fish, they are paying money for the work involved in finding them, catching them, and transporting them to market.  Money is a means of exchange-  the fisherman exchanges his work (the fish) for money and he uses the money to maintain the value of his work and later exchange it for the work of others.  That is money for the working man.

The Sucker, the Conman and the Shill

Imagine the fisherman decides he needs a new boat and wants to finance the entire purchase price. He will go to his local bank and, if approved, will be given the funds to purchase the boat in exchange for signing a promissory note for the amount and terms of the loan.

When the fisherman signed the promissory note, he assumed that other fishermen, or their equivalents in productive society, worked, earned money, deposited that money in a bank to earn interest and that’s the interest he was going to pay on his boat loan, plus the margin for the bank.  The interest rate he was paying seemed reasonable, 7%.  The guy who deposited the money needs a return, and so does the bank.  In fact, it seemed cheap to him. He probably wouldn’t continue fishing if the best he could do was make what the bank or the depositor made, say about half of his interest rate, 3.5%.  For that, he would sell everything and buy a ten year bond that paid close to 3% and call it a day.  But he’s not a banker and he assumes they’re making money some other way.

The banker is thrilled.  He did take some deposits and put them in reserve (about 10% of the loan amount) and he will be paid interest (.25%) on that amount by the Fed.  Then he created, out of thin air, the entire loan amount to give to the fisherman.  The money he gave the fisherman never existed before the fisherman signed the promissory note.  The banker is making more than 70% on the money he has left in reserve, for which is also earning interest.  Worst case, if the fisherman goes belly up, the banker will sell the boat.  He can’t lose much.

The PhD Nobel Laureate, writing for a one of the world’s great newspapers, never a word he speaks of this, for if he did, only for Zero Hedge would he write and not a penny would he see for his poetic prose.  So instead he writes about Democrats and Republicans and higher taxes on the fisherman to pay for the bigger deficits he is so fond of.  More deficits, more debt, he exclaims. Just print the stuff like it’s going out of style and we’ll all be living high on the hog.

The fact is, only the fisherman actually does something worthwhile for society, while the banker stuffs his pockets and the PhD stuffs his ego while filling the masses with fantasies.

So what does this have to do with gold going below $960?  Everything.

The Script

To survive as a human being in the United States, as well as in most corners of this world, one needs money.  Money to put a roof over one’s head, money to buy food, money to heat one’s house, money to put a shirt on one’s back.  The banker’s script says that fiat money (dollars, yen, euros, etc.) is real money, the same as gold.  Money is work, and gold stores the value of work.  Fiat money is a claim on future work-  it’s not work itself.

What banks do is the equivalent of allowing people to become indentured servants, signing away their futures for a stack of instantly made Federal Reserve Notes, and they get their hooks in early.  The average college graduate in 2012 had just over $20,000 in student loan debt on graduation day as well as additional credit card debt.  The banker’s ability to create money out of nothing and lend it to kids is a good example of how they have completely demolished any semblance of democracy in America.  Who in their right mind would loan a kid $20,000 for a college education if the money they lent was earned through work?  Would we pay billions to the NSA to spy on us, or trillions to fight imperial proxy wars all over the world if we had to pay for them with work (gold)?

Of course we wouldn’t.  If the money that was loaned to governments, businesses and individuals was real, much more critical thinking would be involved in its allocation and the cumulative votes of investors would render practical results, instead Twitter is valued at over $30 billion.  But when the Fed is pumping trillions into markets, who is thinking about risk?  If people actually decided on public policy through having to pay for those polices through work, the world would look much different than it does today.  When money is created by the trillions out of nothing and simply laid as claim on the future work of the populace, then the only ones deciding on those policies are the money masters who control the printing presses.

If gold were used as the basis of our money, the only way to make more of it would be to dig it out of the ground and that takes work, something bankers and shills are quite averse too.  To loan money they would first have to either work and earn it, or make a spread on what they paid in interest and what they earned on loans, becoming intermediaries.  Neither variant is to their liking as they much prefer to print it out of thin air, loan it out and keep the interest.  The now infamous 1% are dependent on this model of money creation and when their ponzi scheme collapsed in 2008, they turned on the presses overtime and made it all back and more in a few short years.

Gold is incredibly democratic in that there is no machine to print it.  But there is paper gold, which the bankers have leveraged about a 100 times and with which they can drive the price of gold wherever they want with their fiat money.  The script says that their money is real- the new and improved version of the outdated gold.  Gold is the enemy of fiat money because its intrinsic scarcity and universally accepted value is a constant reminder of the banker’s ponzi scheme.

In April of 2011 gold hit a record high of $1,923 an ounce.  Come hell or high-water, the banksters want to announce in the corporate media they own, that once and for all the shiny stuff has been deemed a relic, nice for jewelry but wholly useless as money.  To do this they will drive the price below $960 an ounce, halving its price in dollars in about three years. It doesn’t take much to imagine the headlines, Is Gold a Worthless Investment? etc.  But Dr. Krugman would say these are the fantasies of conspiratorial gold nuts.  Really Dr. Krugman?

Supply and demand?  Chinese physical purchases skyrocket while
the paper price plummets.

On April 11, 2013 gold closed at $1,562 an ounce.  On April 12 someone sold 400 tons of gold, 300 of which was sold in just 30 minutes, driving the price of gold down below $1,500 an ounce, crashing through important technical levels and for many, marking the end to gold’s bull run which began in 2000.  How much is 400 tons of gold?  It’s about 15% of all the gold mined in 2011 or .25% of all the gold ever mined in the history of man, worth about $20 billion dollars at the time.  This was obviously not done by someone who owned gold because there would be no reason to drive the price down so dramatically if someone wanted to exit a position. This was a naked short, done by someone with deep pockets to make a dramatic, headline catching move in the gold market.  Not surprisingly, Dr. Krugman wasted no time chiming in and on April 15, 2013 he wrote of gold bugs, “Maybe, just maybe, the gold crash will finally bring intellectual capitulation. But I wouldn’t bet on it.”

That’s very interesting coming from a Nobel prize winner who doesn’t even understand the basics of money creation, as was clearly shown in his debate with economist Steve Keen.

Gold is much more than an investment, it’s the backbone of liberty.  Without it we will be led by the banksters and their shills down the merry way of slavery, plutocracy and totalitarianism.

It’s in the script.

Robert Bonomo is a blogger, novelist and esotericist.  Download his latest novel, Your Love Incomplete, for free here.


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Comments

  1. NO SOUP for YOU, either! 

    • Mr Bonomo is an interesting character…
      This is from the free ebook link:
       
       
       
      About Robert Bonomo

      Robert Bonomo is a blogger, novelist and practicing esotericist. He has lived and worked in Madrid, San Francisco, Buenos Aires, Kamchatka, Miami, Valencia, Cartagena, New York and a few other not so interesting places. He speaks fluent Spanish and a very spotty Russian.

      He released his fourth novel, Your Love Incomplete, in August of 2013. It’s available as a free ebook along with two of his previous novels, Cactus Land and Twilight Breakout.

      Robert is a late blooming anarchist and has been published in some of the leading alternative media sites including LewRockwell.com, INFOWARS.com, GlobalResearch.com, ActivistPost.com, Rense.com, and WhatReallyHappened.com. When the smoke clears, the tyrants are vanquished and liberty is restored, he will have done his part, God willing.

      You can contact him through his website, http://www.thecactusland.com for any comments, ideas or projects. He has an open mind and an empty wallet, so almost anything goes.
      Read Robert Bonomo’s Smashwords Interview

  2. I think that it is obvious that 1000 dollar gold is in the banks game plan.  It will be what they consider the cou d gras and their final chance to fill their coffers before we see gold finally begin to rise again.  I was hoping that we would have already seen this happen.  I am ready to get it over with because until we do we will see gold plod along until it does.  The bankers are unbelievably greedy.

    • Hi PK! 
      I have a different idea, it seems TPTB are expending terrible efforts just to keep the markets steady right now. I do not think they have the strength left to do much more! I could be wrong, but even if they do slam further, it could backfire. Other economic indicators are NOT moving in traditional patterns that would indicate PM price drops. I say BRING IT ON! as I would like BTC to rise and PMs to drop. I have a plan to buy PMs with BTC  :D

    • Its all but guaranteed the Chinese, Indians and Middle East would have already bought everything which is not nailed to the floor at that price.  Most likely it would signify that the White Elephant in the room has been spotted and on her side are large letters which state “Your Gold and Your Jobs Have Moved To China.  Yours truly, the Squid”
       

    • If they can drive gold to $1000, $5000/oz gold would be a 5x gain. At $1250 it’s a 4x gain. Even if they only touch the mark, the gain is worth it. They will try to push to $1000. If it hasn’t happened in the first half of 2014, I would like to think they can’t.
      JC

    • I have learned to never underestimate the power of the manipulators.  They have the power right now.  I am confident that if they cannot take down gold in the next 6 months than their chance to do so will have passed.  I have no sources or proof of this.  Just my amateur call.  They need to do what they gotta do now.  Don’t wait fukkers.  Get it done now or give it up.  There is no phyzz left anyway for you to buy in substantial size.  When Spring comes you will be on my time.  Short silver in the Spring at your own risk.

    • “There is no phyzz left anyway for you to buy in substaintial size.”
      Nonsense, investors have been able to get all the physical they want.  Any shortages appearing?  No.

    • I think you’ll find Pollo was referring to corporation/government size entities. Not someone with $1million. Otherwise, please explain why Germany only got 37 tonnes of their 300 tonne request … over seven years!

      Also here in the UK, the UK Mint have no more gold at the moment. I guess the delivery boy is on his two week holiday!

      JC

    • “please explain why Germany only got 37 tonnes of their 300 tonne request”
      It’s foolish to draw a “shortage of gold” conclusion because of the Germany agreement, we don’t know why the deal was made, to speculate on the reasons is just that, pure speculation. 

    • You guys will get nowhere talking to this guy. You should know that by now. Speculate on the speculation?
       
      LMAO…Charlie, what do you have to say?

    • @zman
      If that is the case, how do you know investors can get all the gold they want? Is that not pure speculation?
      JC

    • @Bay Of Pigs I don’t Speculate or Invest, I Stack For Survival and I also don’t agree with most of what Zman say’s most of the time but again it’s his opinion. Lol But I think we are winning him over. LMAO

    • I don’t have any idea how much phyzz is actually available for country’s or banks to buy at any given time.  I don’t think anyone does.  The example with Germany does give us a clue that there really isn’t that much out there to buy.  If you listen to Jim Willie, he tells us that China and the rest of the Eastern country’s have been buying 1000 tons per month for the last year or so.  Personally, I don’t believe Jim Willie.  Koos Janson, the so called China gold expert tells us that China has bought 2400 tons in the last 12 months.  That sounds more plausable.  Janson uses actually facts and figures to come up with his estimate.  At any rate, as long as the phyzz is available, the East will buy it up.  Its cheap.  There is not reason for them to wait to buy it.  If they don’t buy it, then another country will buy it as it becomes available.  Whats actually left to be bought is anyones guess.  You can say there is plenty out there if you want.  I cant prove you wrong.  If there is plenty out there then we are in a little trouble.  They will easily beat the price down to 1000.  I am just saying that there is not plenty out there according to some decent guru’s like William Kaye who is supposed to be reputable.  I think its a matter of 6 months or so before it makes any difference in the price for the stacker.  

    • PK…China picks up a few extra ounces under the radar out of Alaska.  Some of the mines sell China high grade gold ore concentrate to be refined in China.  Fills the empty cargo ships heading back to China and evades U.S. environmental laws and the expense they create.

    • @UglyDog , I wonder how many American jobs were lost (or simply do not exist) because that ore is processed in china rather than in America?  Since shipping tens of millions of Manufacturing jobs overseas apparently wasn’t enough, now we are shipping out mining jobs.
       
      Grrr!

    • zman appears to be a troll surfing this site.  After read multiple of zman’s posts over several weeks it just screams TROLL. 

    • “how do you know investors can get all the gold they want?”
      Are there any cases of jewellers not getting physical gold?   No.
      Are there any cases of retail sellers out of gold? No.
      Are there any cases of industrial users of silver not able to get it? No.
      Are there any dealers willing to pay a PREMIUM for gold or silver? No.
      Bottom line, this “shortage of gold” theory is a joke, William Kaye forgets to mention the massive amount of scrap gold that comes into the market every year. You know what fixes a potential shortage?   Higher prices, that is how markets work.

    • @z 
      Kaye HAS mentioned the scrap situation a few times in passing.  I think the ability to purchase ounces of these metals is not impaired to the degree trying to round up tons is…  jewelers, and retailers can still acquire gold in the quantities that are customary for their business  As for silver, I am aware of a solar panel manufacturer that has had to advance their silver procurements out by 6 to 9 months due to supply constraints,  It’s still an anecdotal report, but the source is real and credible.  They are buying in significant quantity and paying a price well above their customary market levels.
       
      If and when the system implodes from a supply shortage, as I said above, it won’t be ounces that can’t be sourced, it will be tons.  Remember, only the big guys matter in this game.

    • I am curious on your solar power user… do they use 999 silver or some modified form?  There is a record surplus of silver available in warehouses in NYC, all one would have to do is buy a futures contract for Jan and not sell it.  You will take title of the silver and can ship it wherever you need it.
       
      If you do need it to be processed into a usable form then you will be at the mercy of the capacity of whoever is doing that for you.
       
      Zman hits it, if there is a shortage then why do premiums on bullion products continue to drop?

    • @zman
      You act as though you have it all figured out, yet you never addressed my 
      Domestic Liquidity of PMs theory. 
       
      They MUST keep PM liquidity in the U$A (while beating down prices, and confidence) 
      so as to make the U$D look good! 
       
      That is Job 1, keep confidence in the U$D AT HOME. 
      The Sheeple are brainwashed enough to believe the MSM that PMs are junk. 
      Maybe 1% are buying, and no one has a job to buy PMs anyway! 
      Manipulated Surplus. Makes Perfect Sense. Make the market smaller, but keep it stocked 
      at all costs! 
      Or it is GAME OVER, Man! GAME OVER! 
      lol

      You have avoided direct dialog at least twice, if not 3 times. I always post this on your part of the thread.
      What’s wrong, it’s not in your script? (jk, really LOL)

    • @UndeRGRound
       
      “I have a plan to buy PMs with BTC  :D”
       
      Well, RGR you know what they say… “Wanna make God laugh?  Just tell Him YOUR plans!”.  ;-)
       
      @Pollokeeper
       
      “You can say there is plenty out there if you want.  I cant prove you wrong.”
       
      Perhaps not but there IS a powerful inference out there.  The Germans wanted to repatriate 300 tons of their gold that was held by the NY Fed but they could not get it.  They could not even LOOK at it… for security reasons, you know.  Instead, they ended up with a “deal” to get it over a 7 year period.  Their 1st installment amounted to 37 tons, which is 1/8 of the amount requested, not 1/7 of it.  My question is, “If there is so much gold supply out there, why did the US not simply print off enough fiat, buy the gold in the brimming market, and hand it over to the Germans, as they had requested?”.  It IS, after all, THEIR property.  Imagine a bank telling you that you can’t have the money you deposited with them but it will be dribbled out to you over a 7 year period.  This is no different… IF THEY HAVE OR EASILY CAN GET THE GOLD.  Apparently, they don’t have it and can’t get it.
       
       

    • @zman here in Canada Jewelry shops only carry 10-18k gold if you are lucky. There is no 24K gold jewelry in Canada. I have yet to even find a place in Toronto that sells 24K gold jewelry. Jewelry shops do not want to pay the premium for gold. My theory is that there is not enough 24K gold to meet demand. Jewerely shops began marketing white and pink gold since there is not enough gold to go around. Everyone is fooled thinking that white and pink gold are better. There are even adds on the radio for trading in your old gold for new white gold. What a load of crap.
      @MikeyJ80 Premiums have not dropped. Still about 15-20% here in Canada anyway. In most all cases premium are higher than when silver was trading at 30$.
      Jiggysmb claims that in Florida people sell their silver for 10% below spot. Apparently all the 17$ silver you can get. ASE’s too. If this is true the only reasons I can think of is that there are lots of old people who have tons of silver and need to sell for regular income. Second some Americans (and some Canadians) may just be totally brainwashed and have no idea how to recognize value.
      Here is Canada when dealing with pawn shops, flea markets and coin shops…you can only buy silver over spot. Unless you are buying 80% junk coins. I dig the 80% since I can actually stack at or 5% below spot. In Canada these coins are recognizable and would be very hard to counterfeit. Perfect for barter. Save your nice bullion and trade the junk!
       

    • @mikeyj80 
      2012 ASE =  $5.99 premium (sold out now)
      2013 ASE = $4.19 premium
      2014 ASE = $3.89 premium
       
      I paid $1.99 premium when Silver was $18, before the $49 run-up!
      Premiums have risen steadily since then. I track these things. Couple of dips here and there, and for a bit 
      (before the last Domestic Liquidity of PMs crunch) the premiums were up to $5 on current year ASE! 
      It all makes sense, see Occam’s Razor… the simplest explanation that fits, is usually correct. 
       
      You and zman are too in-tune with the MSM. I was woke up in 1990 to their lies. Slapped right in the face. caught them in a bald-fased, verifiable lie. Shoulda had tivo, or at least the video tape running…  ;)
       
       

    • @undeRGRound
      “You have avoided direct dialog at least twice”       I don’t recall, my apologies if I did.
      “you have never addressed my Domestic Liquidity of PM’s theory”
      What is it?     No one can control a global physical market, not even the US MSM, the fact of the matter is investors in the US, Euro zone don’t seek a inflation hedge today, that is why silver is at $20 oz today, there is no other reason.
       

    • @undeRGRound, i would love to see more of your data.  What old dated silver eagles sell for on dealer sites is not what i have found them to trade for.  Heck, the ad at the top of the page says $1.99 maples.  Remember when they where near $7?  Just have to watch docs deals of the day, they’ve gotten better and better.  

      Want to talk disinformation?  How about all that ‘you better buy your 2013 eagles while you can, mint is stopping and premims are going to appreciate’.  then a week later ‘year end blowout deals on 2013 eagles’.  You are right, that bit of disinformation got some people.

      How about a deal on gold, $30 premium on bullion coins at provident, that is as low as i can remember, albeit i’ve only been at this about 5 years. Seen lower on bars, but not rounds.

      Silver one ounce bars for 65c over spot!
      Junk Silver recently at $1.49 per ounce!

      Who cares about premiums on 2012 or any other old date, look at the fresh stuff, deals abound! They are not as low as prior to the spike, but they are at the lowest prices i remember since the crash has started. In my mind, the drop from $30 to $20 saw the biggest premium increases because it happened so fast, the market and production have had time to deal with that, premiums are settling down.

    • @mikeyj80
      “…I am curious on your solar power user…”
      I’m told they buy the silver as a salt and the metal is precipitated out as part of the manufacturing process.  So they are dependent on a processor to supply them.  The story is that the supplier is not able to source grade consistently, so they’ve had to put customers on allocations.  I didn’t pay a whole lot of attention to that part of our conversation when we first talked, I’ll have to connect again and ask a couple more specific questions relating to their supply issue.

    • Are there any cases of jewellers not getting physical gold?   No. YOU KNOW DO YOU!
      Are there any cases of retail sellers out of gold? No. YOU KNOW  DO YOU!
      Are there any cases of industrial users of silver not able to get it? No. YOU KNOW DO YOU!
      Are there any dealers willing to pay a PREMIUM for gold or silver? No. YOU KNOW DO YOU!
      Bottom line, this “shortage of gold” theory is a joke, William Kaye forgets to mention the massive amount of scrap gold that comes into the market every year. You know what fixes a potential shortage?   Higher prices, that is how markets work.
      @zman FUCK ME YOU’RE OMNIPOTENT, HAT’S OFF. Information can be suppressed and manipulated, just like markets. People can be told what to say or do. 
      I am not saying you are wrong, but neither can you say with conviction I am wrong.
      But
      ‘No one can control a global physical market, not even the US MSM, the fact of the matter is investors in the US, Euro zone don’t seek a inflation hedge today, that is why silver is at $20 oz today, there is no other reason’.
      THAT right there is pure bullshit. Silver is at $20 due to manipulation. Or are you going to tell me all markets are manipulated except PMs. Or that markets aren’t manipulated at all? Libor etc???? Come on man, I don’t think you are a troll, but I do think you talk out of your arse sometimes.
      But we know countries that can’t get their gold … Germany, Holland – but you dismiss these.
      JC

    • @Jccjktj
       
      There is a HUGE difference between PM markets which have physical delivery capability (i.e. to where the big users have the ability to decide if the paper price is fair, and if not, use the physical mechanism) vs. LIBOR and other markets that are indexed settled.
       
      You are smart enough to understand the difference, but when you get told “this is your price because i say so” and you have no other option, that is a market much more susceptible to manipulation.  That CANNOT be sustained in a physically settled market for very long.

  3. Significant?
     
    SHANGHAI, Jan 10 (Reuters) – The Shanghai Gold Exchange plans to launch an international board in the city’s pilot free trade zone in the first half of this year to attract overseas capital to invest in China’s gold market, local media reported on Friday.
    “We are pushing for the international board to be launched during the first half,” Song Yuqin, deputy general manager of the Shanghai bourse, was quoted as saying in the Shanghai Daily.
    “It will definitely be launched within the year,” Song said, adding that the contracts on the international board will be priced in yuan instead of foreign currencies.
    The bourse is now looking for a site for a bonded warehouse in the zone, he said.
    The Shanghai free trade zone, launched in September, is intended to test profound reforms to the country’s economic and financial system, including liberalisation of China’s currency regime and interest rates
    The Shanghai Gold Exchange is the world’s biggest physical gold exchange. All buying and selling of spot bullion in China has to happen through the exchange.
     
    (Reporting by Fayen Wong; Editing by Richard Pullin)

    • Yep, this is big.  The key words are Yuan instead of international currencies which is a direct attack on the dollar.  Also, it will be most likely be for Physical Gold only so no paper or derivatives allowed.  Its a direct attack on the paper derivative market where China will want the price to rise since she owns quite a large hoard at this point. 
      This is what many have predicted would happen over the years as gold moved from West to East.  Its not a good thing just like China trading oil in their own currency.  Ultimately its one of the big steps which must happen for gold and silver to be set “free” and attain their true value. 

    • “International Board” is code for “Rothschild Controlled”.

    • “…China will want the price to rise since she owns quite a large hoard at this point.”
       
      Yes, they do.  But they will want a LOW price for as long as they can possibly arrange it… at least until they have milked every last ounce available from those who have it and those who mine it.  THEN the price will rise.  Count on it.
       

  4. I think most brokerage houses are forecasting sub 1000 for gold and sub 15 for silver

  5. No. $1215, its the magic number. Trust in me…..

  6. I really don’t care if it goes to $1000 or not but I don’t see it going there, only up. Around the corner is the reset, so, Keep Stacking

    • @marchas45  If it does go to 1000 lets hope that it happens soon.  It is what the banks want.  The sooner the better.  Once it does reach 1000, if it does then it is likely that the banks will cover all their shorts.  Then go long so they can make payroll.  The banks haven’t lost a nickel in this bear market with gold to my knowledge and I am confidant that they won’t lose a nickel when the market turns either.  And, what about this so called reset?  Tell me about that.  Jim Willie has said his peace and so has Lindsay Williams.  What are your thoughts Marchas about this subject?  I am not convinced yet about the reset.  I think the US will put up a hissy fit concerning this so called reset.  What have we to gain by it?  Not a damn thing.  It will have to be shoved down our throat kicking and screaming before we voluntarily accept a currency devaluation of 30 to 50%.  More likely we just see high inflation and loss of value on the currency exchange.  Sort of like Japan is experiencing.  Leading to hyper eventually.  But, what do I know?

    • @Pollokeeper Lol the only thing I know about the reset is what Pastor Williams talks about it. He also mentioned it well before Jim Willie. I have been following the Pastor for a few years now and he was instrumental in me starting to stack. Lot’s of people call him a wacko but I truly believe in what he says and follow him and listen to him all the time.
      The reset has nothing to do what the US will think and yes I believe they will sit back and let it happen as that’s what the Elite Banksters want and that’s what they are going to get no matter what.  Keep Stacking

    • @marchas45  Well, I have been listening to Pastor Williams stuff for several years.  He hasn’t convinced me.  However, according to the nice pastor we have less than 2 months to go before the reset happens.  I won’t bad mouth him in front of you yet.  If he is right then he is obviously the man.  If he is wrong.  Well, that makes him a dud.  No excuses.  And, it will just prove my behind the scenes, rather poor, opinion of him.

    • @Pollokeeper Well I hope you have no need to bad mouth anyone and it wouldn’t matter anyway if you did it in front of me. Everyone has an opinion and Life goes on. Keep Stacking

    • Lindsey Williams gives excellent info when he sticks to what formerly Ken Fromm told him and what now Mr. “L” tells him.  Where Lindsey can get into trouble with his audience is when he forgets he’s a pastor and not a geopolitical / world financial expert.  I’ve listened to him for about 5 years now since I’ve been actively in this arena and what he’s been told is damned good info if you can take with careful discernment how he may interpret the things he’s been told by his contact(s).  But to dismiss his message because of his delivery and his DVD sales is a mistake in my view.
       
      Personally, I think the possibility of a formal top-down global currency reset IS high right now or very soon.  I was developing this thesis for about a month or so before Lindsey ever came out with what, even for him, was a pretty strong pronouncement of a Global Currency Reset within 90 days.  But, given the things I was seeing, his pronouncement rang a very loud bell. 
       
      While I think the possibility of a GCR is high right now, I believe a top-down GCR  is more of an emergency blow-off mechanism the elites have created in their toolbox as a failsafe if things get too far out of hand too quickly.  We may be closer to that happening than many might realize and this may be the real takeaway from Lindsey’s recent announcement.  I am paying particular attention now to how there are starting to appear more and more in the financial MSM like Bloomberg, and the WSJ, stories of gold being exported out of the west, shipped to Swiss refiners and being sent to China, never to be seen again.  We are being told China doesn’t want dollars, they want gold,   Rickards is out being more candid than his usual globalist close to the vest self and i think I heard him even back off the certainty that we have all the gold in this country we are supposed to have.  He’s NEVER done that before….  Now, If we are indeed seeing a lessening of the downward pressure on paper gold prices, perhaps we are seeing the physical stocks available to underpin the Comex paper market price fixing dwindling as well…  The German repatriation story has it’s own contribution to impeach the credibility of our government’s assurances of the gold reserve.  It seems to me that If we truly had the gold we say we do, we wouldn’t need a GCR.  But there is no way the US can push for a return to any gold standard when it knows it no longer has the gold.   A GCR is the eventual alternative… remember the Smithsonian, Plaza and Louvre accords back in the ’80′s devalued the US dollar in the face of it’s increased fiat money creation… given what we are printing today, we are WAY overdue for a reset and our overprinting is making the whole world economy unstable.
       
      There is a larger picture perspective here. It is my considered opinion that there is INDEED, a globalist campaign to collapse the US into a cog in the NWO global governance scheme.  The order of events to accomplish this must first include the collapse of the US dollar and the complete elimination (theft) of the wealth in this country to weaken our national resolve.  People who lose everything will accept almost any political solution to a failed system as long as it gives them a hot and a cot!   Well, right now, the nation’s wealth is concentrated in the markets and in the People’s retirement accounts — what is it?  9 or 11 Trillion dollars?  How to confiscate all that plunder???  For the past 3 years every new year has brought a renewed push to plunder retirement funds in Congress… but it’s never caught on politically because the People are not ready to be stolen from as of now and would likely revolt.
      Now, in order to justify nationalizing retirement accounts or enacting bank bail-ins under the guise of failed banks, without inciting social unrest at the least or an outright revolution at worst. they need to align the people with their goals.  In 2001, 9/11 was perpetrated on the heels of Paul Wolfowitz with PNAC saying that, in order to rally the people behind the security state required by the New World Order going into the 21st century, what was needed was a 21st century Pearl Harbor to align (fool) the masses with the plan..  So, they gave us drama and theater on September 11th, 2001 and we just fell into place behind GW Bush and his, “If you aren’t with US, then you are with THEM!”  mantra.  For the past 13 years, our liberties have disappeared with nary a whimper of protest.
       
      So, now, perhaps it’s time for the economic/financial false flag.  The black swan possibilities for them to choose from are almost endless.  Maybe we are out of gold and China makes an international case over defaulted deliveries.  Maybe a crisis erupts in Europe or the Middle East.  My personal favorite is to remind us that next month Congress is up for a collective Oscar performance as they portray a valiant battle in the epic saga of Good versus Evil in  ‘Left versus Right’ and we are treated to a show of a fully scripted and planned stalemate and standstill and, right as the pre-written false-flag script calls for, they fail to reach agreement on the debt limit and the budget — and then, lo and behold, over the weekend,  we suddenly wake up to find China has cut us off financially…we’re totally irresponsible with our spending excesses. Perhaps our rogue agents in the Navy or the CIA punctuate the lies with a staged false flag attack in the Sendaku Islands… wait, the US is supposed to defend Japan, right? Ah, a WAR… now THAT will confuse and distract the masses!!!  Works EVERY TIME!!!  China has already said they will no longer accept dollars, now, as a result of our irresponsible spending, it is now announced that they are dumping all their treasuries…  the dollar plummets, Gold skyrockets, the stock market collapses (they pull out the POMO infusions) and the Forex goes crazy….  Gold skyrockets except… oh NO!  the US DOESN’T HAVE ANY GOLD!!!!   Obama comes out, and explains a national crisis condition in that disgusting dead-pan of his and announces that we ALL must now SACRIFICE in this time of crisis for America for the greater good. The Global Currency Reset is announced under the cover of this stageplay. Perhaps they tell us China IS the culprit… After all, we are now starting to hear, like a NEW DISCOVERY, that the gold is now all going EAST by way of Switzerland.  The east is taking all the gold from the west.  It will be mostly lies and spin, but hey, they know the recipe works really well. They might even find a way to spin the TPP agreements into the evildoer’s cauldron of double bubble, toil and trouble…  Obama announces we are going to have nationalize retirements to raise capital in the face of the falling dollar (not a collapse — not yet — that comes a year or two later), we are going to have to suffer a devaluation of our US dollar on the world markets.(there’s your Global Currency Reset — which has, in fact, already been totally gamed and prepared by the IMF)  The domestic economy won’t feel the effects of this immediately since the value of the dollar will remain unchanged in the domestic environment. so there will be a period of financial calm to appease the masses that this wasn’t so bad…  the dollar will have been devalued against the other world currencies in a relatively easy-to-digest step for the people, still steeped in the ignorance of the financial Armageddon being perpetrated against them. That is, at least until the exchange rate adjustments spool up inflation, adding to the crisis atmospherics and optics.  In the meantime, the wealth destruction from the market collapses will weaken the masses and condition us to the hedonic “national crisis situation”, further ‘preparing’ us for that banana republic mindset.
       
      There are a lot more pieces to this mosaic that appear to fit too nicely into this scenario, but this post is now long enough — it’s a start…. and for as crazy as this stuff might sounds proscriptively, we’ve watched the globalists proceed with their plans over the years and things which always seemed to come out of nowhere when they happened.  It was only in hindsight that we’d slap ourselves upside the head and go… “Of COURSE!  Now what happened makes perfect sense.”

    • @Pollokeeper
       
      “It will have to be shoved down our throat kicking and screaming before we voluntarily accept a currency devaluation of 30 to 50%.”
       
      Is it really a matter of “acceptance”?  Or is it more a matter of our creditors saying, “Now, Americans, THIS is what is gonna happen!”.  My thought is that when one is the debtor, one does not get to set the terms of the repayment of that debt.  That will be up to the creditor(s).  This is just more of the old, “He who has the gold, makes the rules”, idea.
       
      On another facet, the US dollar is the World Reserve Currency these days but this is not like a life-time inherited title of royalty.  This is conferred upon the nation with the strongest currency and the greatest production capacity.  Typically, that will be the nation with the deepest liquidity pool.  With the US dollar and US industry shrinking, while those of China are growing, it is only a matter of time before the nations of the world simply choose a new reserve currency.  Of the 180+ countries on Earth, the US gets 1 and only 1 vote in this… and, unlike China, we have not been working very hard to help other countries develop their resources; so when it comes up for a vote, it doesn’t look good for the US.  
       
      When, not if, WRC status is lost, it will cause a reduction in the number of dollars needed for international trade settlement.  As with anything else, reduced demand equals reduced value.  While estimates vary, some economists peg this at about 30-35% of the US dollar’s value.  The effects will be two-fold.  First, the value of the US dollar will drop by about 1/3, meaning that all of the prices we pay will rise by 1/3… virtually over-night.  Second, trillions of US dollars will come back to the US because they are legal tender here and they are not needed anywhere else.  Where else can they go?  When they arrive here, they will cause a lot of inflation.  Maybe this will be hyper-inflation, maybe it won’t but regardless of the label applied to it, it will be bad.  Prices rising by 20-30% per year for several years would not surprise me a bit.  Get those seats and trays in the upright and locked positions, folks, there’s bumpy air just ahead on this flight.
       

    • @Ed_B
      “When, not if, WRC status is lost” 
      When, not if it does, I have 3 letters for you, my man! 
       
      BTC
      Or you could get in early :D  
      May not happen, but many signals are definitely GREEN!
      BTW, your math is a bit off. If the U$D lives thru loss of WRC, and loses 1/3 of it’s value, inflation will be 50%! 
      Worse than you thought. 25% devaluation would be 33% inflation. But the SILVER Lining is this, in a Bixian Reset
      (Bix Weir RTR Theory) Digital Crash, all the un-printed Fiat U$D is “lost in cyberspace” and evaporates. U$D is 90+% 
      VIRTUAL and not physically “printed”. These are the funds that are overseas. Some is printed, sure, but the issuance 
      of the new “Benjamins” has an effect on this. The NEW Bens are good. The OLD Bens are KapuT! Then we will in effect, 
      experience deflation of around 1000% but most of that will be contained in the bank$ter$ pocketbooks LOL!!! 
       
      Here’s hoping this plays out in a positive way…

    • @undeRGRound
       
      “When, not if it does, I have 3 letters for you, my man!”
       
      Yeah, well I have 4 letters for you… GRRR!  lol
       
      “BTW, your math is a bit off. If the U$D lives thru loss of WRC, and loses 1/3 of it’s value, inflation will be 50%! “
       
      Really?  Well, let’s examine that, shall we?  If an item costs $1 and the dollar loses 1/3 of its value, will that 1/3 not have to be made up via the expenditure of more money, such as another $0.33?  Wouldn’t the item then cost $1.33 and not $1.50?  Or are you applying the devaluation to the extra $0.33 as well?  If so, you are right.  Either way, the salient point is that things will cost more money… a lot more… and a lot of people are barely making it now.  What will they do then?
       
      As to Bix, I find him quite entertaining but not what I would call a reliable prognosticator.  Any number of his idea are more than a little far out for my taste and being wrong on his calls does not seem an impediment to making new ones.  But I do enjoy reading his info.
       

    •  If an item costs $1 and the dollar loses 1/3 of its value, will that 1/3 not have to be made up via the expenditure of more money, such as another $0.33? Wouldn’t the item then cost $1.33 and not $1.50? Or are you applying the devaluation to the extra $0.33 as well?
       
      OK, if your newly revalued U$D is .67 of the old, it now takes $1.50 of the newly devalued to equal one of the old. 2nd case is correct. The devaluation is applied to the $.33 as well. The math in this case is not kind to the consumer, who is the end user.  
       

  7. Here’s the thing.  China had her public go all in at $1100 several years ago.  I just don’t think China will allow the price to drop below the $1100 entry level of her citizens.  About the only thing the Party fears is mass social unrest and she has plenty of T-Bills to spend in the paper gold market to abate public discord.

    • I agree, UglyDog.  Not only that but every time gold prices are smashed, BIG money comes in and supports the price.  Maybe that big money is China and maybe it is multiple buyers.  Regardless of that, those buyers coming in support the gold prices.  This is why the manipulators have lost their mojo with this technique.  It is now taking MANY more paper gold contracts dumped in a shorter amount of time to produce smaller price drops that don’t last as long.  This is a classic diminishing returns effect and we are approaching a time when even the most blatant manipulation imaginable of the paper gold market will have little to no effect on gold prices at all.

  8. One thing not noted in this post is the fact that JPM has cornered the lond gold market  They hold 75% of the long positions according to intel from some analysts.  If JPM is long then $1000 is not in  the cards.  Does anyone have better intel on this? 
    The story has bounced around for about 2 months.

    • Why wouldn’t lower prices be in the cards if JPM has the market cornered?  Maybe they want to buy more cheap phyzz?  They have access to it.  And, they could speed up the gold bull’s ascent if that is what they wanted to do once they have their belly full of 400 oz bars.

    • JP took delivery of a very large percentage of December gold contracts.  Do they still own that gold?  I doubt it, my guess is it is arbitraged and the title has changed.  Someone has taken a few big chunks out, we’ll see if it returns or not.
       
      Nobody knows in advance, but 4 US banks are net long about 30k gold futures in all positions.  Interestingly commercial shorts in gold increased in the last report, that indicates more producer hedging at these prices.  It is not a huge move, so likely just selling some nearby production that must be shipped for logistical reasons, but unteresting none the less.

    • “Interestingly commercial shorts in gold increased in the last report, that indicates more producer hedging at these prices.”
       
      So, the commercials do not think that there is a bottom forming around $1200 an oz.?  If they did, they would not be hedging, would they?  Hedging is what people do in the middle to upper portions of a bull run.  They want to lock in those higher prices in case the price drops.  Or, am I all wet here?
       
       

    • @Ed_B
      I understand that there is enormous pressure being brought to bear on the producers to hedge at prices at which their production will be unprofitable… ostensibly to help the bankers cover their still open shorts….
       

    • @Sovereign Economist
       
      Somehow, it is difficult for me to imagine that any business operators would really care whether or not the banks could cover the shorts that are screwing up the business that those folks are in.  If the miners have to vote on whether the bankers thrive or whether they do, I suggest that they will vote for the miners.  Why these miners have not banded together into a cartel of their own and arranged to sell directly to the BIG money interests in Asia at a fair price is beyond me.  I don’t know… maybe they enjoy being screwed by the current bankster-run system?  It would be difficult to imagine that but, these days, who knows?
       
       

    • @Ed_B
       
      The increase was commercial shorts, so that is more short selling week on week.  It was a small move, but indicates producers are locking in current prices. You are right, as a producer you want to lock in top price… but if you are constantly taking gold to market, you may just have to sell a bit at all times and the small increase could just be a fluctuation (as was my speculation at the end of my comment).

      Unless this increase becomes a trend, i wouldn’t be too concerned, but you are correct, it is an indication that the producer is happy with todays price and wants to lock it in just in case price continues to decline.

    • @ ED_B
      “…Somehow, it is difficult for me to imagine that any business operators would really care whether or not the banks could cover the shorts that are screwing up the business that those folks are in.  If the miners have to vote on whether the bankers thrive or whether they do, I suggest that they will vote for the miners.  Why these miners have not banded together into a cartel of their own and arranged to sell directly to the BIG money interests in Asia at a fair price is beyond me.  I don’t know… maybe they enjoy being screwed by the current bankster-run system?  It would be difficult to imagine that but, these days, who knows?…”
       
      The price suppression has taken a big bite out the miners.  I wish I could remember where I saw the story on this, but the gist of it is that the cartel is threatening that they can keep the price suppression up to the point where the miners become fully unprofitable or more so, to the point where they are forced to close.  The cartel is using extortion tactics here with the intent to force the miners into forward sales contracts which would then be used to cover the banker short positions.  The miners are being arm-twisted to play ball or be bankrupted.  And, something which helps this along goes to your second question regarding the miners banding together… Do you recall a couple years ago when Eric Sprott sent letters to all the silver producers suggesting that if they were to hold back a portion of their production instead of giving it all up to the bankers and the exchanges when produced?? His point was that the miners would actually be helping their own cause by making it harder for the bankers to short the silver and drive the price down?
      Well, the response to Sprott’s overture was subdued at best, and the story disappeared pretty quickly with virtually no further coverage or discussion.  Well, the back story is that evidently, the several ‘selected’ miners were approached and told quietly by person or persons unidentified that they needed to remember that it would not be advantageous for it to be discovered that there was some endangered species like a snail darter in their mining zones… or that, in the case of some foreign projects, the foreign governments might suddenly have a “Moammar moment” change of policy because of US pressure being brought to bear on said government. (Think India and gold import restrictions at the behest of the US Government.)  Why, there might be some procedural issues about permit renewals that could come up, forcing production halts… and that sort of thing could always be an issue were it to become necessary.  Mexican properties could become the target of attacks and kidnappings by our drug cartel ‘partners” (think Fast and Furious) south of the border.  Chapman used to talk about this kind of blackmail going on in the mining business a lot, but then it was mostly in foreign jurisdictions with governments pressured to increase royalties for balance-of-payments issues and so on…  I think this is one of the reasons Jim Sinclair needs to be very careful about what he says publicly these days.  (He’s a LOT more candid at these public meetings he’s been having than he is in the media and JSMineset these days.  I KNOW — I’ve been to two of them!)  Tanzanian Royalty could be placed in the gunsights with the result being a little Moammar delegation showing up at an embassy in Tanzania somewhere with a diplomatic proposition that would be hard to turn down, ya know what ‘ah mean???

       

    • @AGXIIK Brings up a HUGE POINT! JPMorgue being net long, wanting to be net LONGER. The question is WHY?
      I’ll tell you WHY, and the lightbulb will go ON. AG touched upon it above, but I’m squared up to knock it
      RIGHT OUTTA THE PARK
       
      BASEL III 
      Remember that little meeting? Jan1. 2013, a little over a year ago, they declared all their member banks must hold
      MORE GOLD! JPM hit the pause button. NOW WE KNOW WHY!!!

      Gold was re-classified from a tier 3 to a tier 1 asset, and margins INCREASED. The last year was to catch up!
      But Gold now holds full value as an asset. The price drops and MSM garbage were to get more Gold into the markets for the bank$ter$ to purchase. A lot went over to China, which is the new _”lord” rothschild_ proxy. I cannot prove this, but I believe we will all see it emerge as time goes on.

    • @Ed_B
       
      Stop Loss is what I understood the main thing to do at a peak, or pause point in a bull market.
      Hedging is done any time to prepare for possible short term losses, in certain circumstances.
      Might be as you say, but IMO, STOP LOSS is the biggy.

    • @mikeyj80
       
      OK, thanks for the reply.  This whole situation needs all the clarity we can muster.
       
      @Sovereign Economist
       
      “…but the gist of it is that the cartel is threatening that they can keep the price suppression up to the point where the miners become fully unprofitable or more so, to the point where they are forced to close.  The cartel is using extortion tactics here with the intent to force the miners into forward sales contracts which would then be used to cover the banker short positions.  The miners are being arm-twisted to play ball or be bankrupted.”
       
      Dammit!  I hate it when people get skulduggerous like this.  They just do not play well with others, I guess.  Looks as if it is time for the miners to partner up with the Chinese.  They could use some real beef on the front line in this football game… and a few trillion in UST paper is pretty beefy!
       
      “Do you recall a couple years ago when Eric Sprott sent letters to all the silver producers suggesting that if they were to hold back a portion of their production instead of giving it all up to the bankers and the exchanges when produced?”
       
      Yes, I do.  That seemed an excellent idea to me.
       
      “Tanzanian Royalty could be placed in the gunsights with the result being a little Moammar delegation showing up at an embassy in Tanzania somewhere with a diplomatic proposition that would be hard to turn down, ya know what ‘ah mean???”
       
      Unfortunately, I do.  Looks as if the need to play some hardball via bringing in their new Chinese partners is even more acute than I thought.
       
      @undeRGRound
       
      “A lot went over to China, which is the new _”lord” rothschild_ proxy. I cannot prove this, but I believe we will all see it emerge as time goes on.”
       
      We might also see that the Chinese don’t give a damn about the Rothschilds and are doing their own thing in all this.  As you say, though, time will tell.
       
      “Might be as you say, but IMO, STOP LOSS is the biggy.”
       
      It very well could be.  Hmmm… I wonder if the miners got the word that PM prices would soon drop and are hedging against that info?  Would not surprise me a bit in the crazy world we have these days.
       
       

    • @Ed_B
      RE: “lord” rothschild: RE: “his Squid-ness”
      I say this because rothschild was linked to the short-lived HKMEX and then the Shanghai Exchange. It all happened so fast, and there was so much hope dashed in such a short time that it was highly suspicious. Had the “lord’s” fingerprints all over it, seemingly. Definitely something fishy going on in all of that.  

    • @undeRGRound
       
      “I say this because rothschild was linked to the short-lived HKMEX and then the Shanghai Exchange.”
       
      I’m not saying that Rothschild’s are not a major player on the world financial stage, far from it, but they are not the only player out there.  China is getting a taste of that kind of power now and it is yummy.  China is a country with such a long history that they view ancient Rome as those Western new-comers.  ;)
       
      “Definitely something fishy going on in all of that.”
       
      Agreed.  It was almost as if it was designed to fail.
       

    • @Ed_B
      I wrote:  “Tanzanian Royalty could be placed in the gunsights with the result being a little Moammar delegation showing up at an embassy in Tanzania somewhere with a diplomatic proposition that would be hard to turn down, ya know what ‘ah mean???”
       
      You Replied: “…Unfortunately, I do.  Looks as if the need to play some hardball via bringing in their new Chinese partners is even more acute than I thought…”
      Hardball doesn’t BEGIN to describe the “Terminate with Extreme Prejudice” desperation of these people.   The risk in this game right now is extreme.  Remember that, if they are not successful in covering those shorts, it’s the end of the rope for many of them.  The risk here is that the metals prices get away from them and they will have no physical to push into the market to control a moonshot.  The ripple effect would hit Forex and the FIAT lie would collapse virtually overnight.  Interestingly, you touched on a possibility for the miners which was to negotiate with the Chinese directly…  well, it appears that the Chinese have, in fact, approached a few US producers directly to do just that!!!!  This is just adding fuel to fire….

    • @Sovereign Economist
       
      Do you really think that it has that kind of extremis attached to it?  One would think that a trail of bodies leading up to their very doors would not be how they would operate.  Skulduggery?  Yep.  Diabolical?  No doubt.  But obvious murder seems like something they would avoid… at least for now.  Now, a nice safe traffic accident or home fire might be just the thing to their way of thinking.  Having a few Chinese spec ops guys around to ensure that doesn’t happen would be some cheap insurance.
       
      “Remember that, if they are not successful in covering those shorts, it’s the end of the rope for many of them.”
       
      They seem unaware that ALL ropes run out eventually.
       
      “Interestingly, you touched on a possibility for the miners which was to negotiate with the Chinese directly…  well, it appears that the Chinese have, in fact, approached a few US producers directly to do just that!!!!  This is just adding fuel to fire….”
       
      It seemed an obvious response to increasing financial and physical pressure.  China is VERY interested in investing in profitable mines and taking their profits from them in physical metal that then gets transported back to China.  They do not export ANY precious metals, even though they have a lot of gold and produce quite a bit as well.
       

  9. Soveriegn Economist  You are hitting on all 12 cylinders. I just read Willies December global currency wars segment on the Goldenjackass part of which is outlined above. He respects Williams even as he says Williams has no Easern connections. But he does have some big puzzle parts to offer.  That USD currency reset is in motion and while it might be 3 months it might be 3 years. It will be precipitated by a man-caused event such as a market crash when China repudiated and dumps their $1 trillion in US reserves as a write off. That write off, partial for the most part since someone will by it, will be balanced by the increase in gold prices.  Willie surmises 15,000 tons or more. I speculated that China has 20,000 and thats on the low side.
    The rest of the actions will fall into place either as planned or just following the course of damages wrought by the devaluation of the USD  It will be ugly.  best  be prepared for the worst.  bail-ins and pension confiscation will start in earnest.  QE will double or triple. inflation or hyperstagflation will ensue.  We have 100,000,000 people unemployed now. 
    How much father do we fall before someone will conclude we are now banana republic or 3rd world.

    • @AGXIIK,
      I think WIlliam’s announcement, as I said above (I keep editing that post.. LOL!) is interesting for it’s timing… Why NOW???  Mr. “L”  said it, so they must be worried about something that, so far, we are not picking up on… or, maybe it’s just time for the GCR on their timeline. I’m suspicious about gold supply and the ability to continue to underpin the artificial pricing… and watching the market action in general and the metals markets in particular since the beginning of the year there is this kind of surreal calm… where is the frenetic capping and smashing that we saw at the end of 2013?  Seems missing?  Why?  Either they are substantially done building their fortress positions, or they are unable to source sufficient quantities of physical to keep the artificial price-fixing action in place.  It feels like the eye of the hurricane… but consider what would happen to the dollar, now struggling at USDX and technically weak at 80 busted through.  If they lose it with gold prices now, a reset becomes imperative to keep the lid on their system.   You’ve added some points with the observations about JPM… but I am a little surprised to see how tepid the gold and silver price volatility has been since the 2st of Jan…  And, after the employment report called the number down to 6.7% the number of folks calling BS on government reporting is rising exponentially now… this just adds to the danger for the bankers….  and yes, the GCR is already in motion… 3 months, 3 years, it’s in the breech locked and loaded, ready for the headshot when the trigger is pulled.
       
      It’s really a challenge just to keep track of all the facets to this thing… I still feel like I’ve missed most of them here and I could write a damned book on it.  Chapman and I used to “WarGame” this sort of thing on my shows with him… he taught me just how intricate the globalist plans can get… and, historically they’ve worked well at producing completely desired but mostly unexpected results to the general populus of media and citizen alike when they are first rolled out….  but it helps to keep our eyes on the endgame results they are seeking to produce. When you can accept that the endgame is the complete takedown of US sovereignty and sublimation into a global government, then suddenly, what appeared to be stupidity and ineptness suddenly starts to be seen for it’s more nefarious purpose and a lot of things start to make a whole lot more sense.

      Interesting? What would the effect on the US be if China suddenly came out and said they had 15000 – 20000 tons? I can’t imagine it wouldn’t ignite brushfires all over the banker’s think-tank offices… HOW MANY TONS ARE WE SUPPOSED TO HAVE IN FT KNOX??? and Germany only got HOW MANY tons… of COIN MELT???? Uh… Excuse me, but there are some questions we’d like to ask…

    • @AGXIIK
       
      “It will be precipitated by a man-caused event such as a market crash when China repudiated and dumps their $1 trillion in US reserves as a write off. That write off, partial for the most part since someone will by it, will be balanced by the increase in gold prices.”
       
      I agree that a man-caused event is most likely, as they can control those in multiple ways.  Timing can be critical to such things, so only those who are causing it will know the precise timing needed to bring other events to fruition at the appropriate times.  I expect one large precipitating event that is followed by several small events that will complicate but complete the whole picture.
       
      But I am not convinced that China will voluntarily write off a trillion $ worth of paper assets.  Is it not more likely that they will find ways to cash those assets in so that they can be converted into strategic resources?  The Earth is a big place and there are MANY places where UST paper can be sold.  By selling it in many places and in relatively small amounts, it might not even be noticed for some time that someone IS selling it.  It could be covered up by the usual buy-sell trade in these financial assets… $50M here, $80M there, and repeat, repeat, repeat.  In a year, it would be quite possible to sell off a trillion $ worth of this stuff, maybe more, and all very quietly.
       
      “Willie surmises 15,000 tons or more. I speculated that China has 20,000 and thats on the low side.”
       
      I agree with that.  China is buying LOTS of gold.  They are also one of, if not THE, largest producer of gold and they do not sell any outside China.  I would say that China has a minimum of 10k tons right now, probably 15k tons, and perhaps as much as 20k tons.  This is a LOT of gold.  But, let’s not forget the Russians.  Whatever China is up to with their serious gold hoard, Russia is not all that far behind.  They have HUGE oil and gas resources and are converting a good share of that into gold.  Russia also is a large gold producer and most of what they produce is purchased by the Russian gubmint.  I have no idea what their gold hoard really is now but 5-10k tons would not surprise me a bit.
       
      “How much father do we fall before someone will conclude we are now banana republic or 3rd world.”
       
      Unfortunately, AG, we are surrounded by our fellow citizens, many of whom won’t realize this until they are living on bananas and nothing else.  :-(
       
      @Sovereign Economist
       
      “And, after the employment report called the number down to 6.7% the number of folks calling BS on government reporting is rising exponentially now…”
       
      My only comment here is… WHAT TOOK THEM SO LONG?!  These numbers have CLEARLY been BS for at least the past 4-5 years.  They may have been BS well before that too but at least they were somewhat less visible back then.  Many of these numbers games started in the Clinton / Rubin regime.  They did not invent such games but they sure knew how to play them.
       

    • @AGXIIK @Sovereign Economist @Ed_B 
       
      Regarding AG’s $1T Write-Off comment, some things come to mind…
       
      This name implies an amount held back in order to be a “trigger”. I would think it would be more profitable to just continue to siphon out the PMs from the West using these funds, but I can see a possible use of a catastrophy in the short term to “clear the table” and set up future profits for the “heir apparent”. It might take the SDR strategy out of the realm of possibility? 
      C’mon, Sovereign “E” this is right in your sweet spot lol

    • @undeRGRound
       
      OK, how about this?  The wily Chinese continue to sell off their UST paper slowly, converting the proceeds into lovely gold bars.  Then, when they reach some magic number, such as the final $1T worth, they dump that into the market to crash the price (as has been done in the paper gold and silver markets) while still salvaging the maximum gain possible.  Sound plausible?  There’s nothing that they would like more than to supplant the US as the world’s reserve currency AND the #1 economy while at the same time sticking a thumb in our eye on our way out for good measure.
       

  10. @Ed_B
    “..My only comment here is… WHAT TOOK THEM SO LONG?!  These numbers have CLEARLY been BS for at least the past 4-5 years.  They may have been BS well before that too but at least they were somewhat less visible back then.  Many of these numbers games started in the Clinton / Rubin regime.  They did not invent such games but they sure knew how to play them.”
     
    I say they’ve noticed for a long time.  But now, it seems that the falsity is so blatant that it can’t be ignored any more and is finally starting to bubble to the surface in MSM reporting  and THAT, as I see it, is what is different now… For example, I saw a local press story on the 6.7% number and the financial reporter’s question was, “How can the unemployment rate only be 6.7% when there are 91 MILLION PEOPLE [his emphasis]  no longer employed?  That’s almost a THIRD of the ENTIRE population of this country!!!” [again, his emphasis]  He was actually pretty emphatic in the way he covered the whole story… kinda like “WTF???”… While he missed the distinction that these were people SO LONG unemployed that they were no longer even looking for work and hence, not counted, his whole demeanor was one of trying to suppress his incredulity over the whole story — frankly rather uncharacteristic of him… the guy kinda reminded me of Neil Cavuto when his BS meter has gone over the top with some guest.
     

    • The problem with things that go on for a long time is that people tend to get desensitized to them and consider them as normal.  Could this report be part of a damage control scheme, you know, get out there and front-run some incredulity so people won’t have to think it up on their own.  Makes me think of those who didn’t foment a mob but after one forms they will get out in front of it and become its “leaders”.  I agree that it is interesting that some of this is being presented in the MSM but I still suspect their motives.
       
      I like Cavuto but he talks too much.  He should LISTEN more and talk LESS.  As my Dad was fond of saying, “You can’t learn anything with your mouth open”.  Or as my Gram used to say, “God gave us 2 ears but only one mouth for a reason.  We need to listen twice as much as we speak”.  ;-) 

  11. Platinum is a good proxy for Gold.  Guy says without Gold we will be led by the banksters and their shills down the merry way of slavery etc…Banksters are the primary buyers of Gold.  How do you evade their next phase of financial plutocracy and totalitarianism by purchasing Gold if that is exactly what they are doing?  Nobody ever answers that.  Big Tom has his head buried in the sand on that question.   I think you would undermine their plans if you purchased other metal.  Have you tried to buy a 5 or 10 lb. copper bar lately?  Go over to Provident and give it a whirl.   They’re sold out.  There was a stealth buyout of that base metal.  I actually like how that happened.  Everybody left me out on that one.  Or so they thought.  Driving the price down to a thousand bucks would be a good way to make gold bugs look stupid for the short term.  Bite the bullet guys.  

    • @andrew james
      Copper is waaaaay overpriced at those places. It is trading at more like what it will be AFTER a revaluation. I am a copper stacker.
      But my main avenue is sorting U$ copper cents. Slow going… I do not have a Ryedale! But I may get one. I have considered buying
      copper ingots, but have not pulled the trigger.
       
      I actually did a huge mathematical research project and posted the figures here on SD. If I can find that, I will re-post. But in short, it shows taht, (at the time) Copper is devalued about the same as Gold, but SILVER is devalued much much further. SILVER is the best metal to invest in, bar none. Of course, this all depends on the end of MANIP-MANOP and who knows when that will be?

  12. Sovereign economist and EdB  
    I fear treading in the realm of thinking along the likes of Lindsey Williams, Chapman or Willie.  Their capacities for thoughtfulness in this area and their intel is daunting.  My thoughts are more along the lines of any human system, no matter how smart or, worse yet, how intellectual, being able to control the hundreds, thousands or even millions of variables involved in their plans for domination. Dimon thought he had the derivatives market wired. The London Whale blew up. JPM lost $7-10 billion. The Human Factor reared its ugly head. Then $25 billion in fines punished hands caught in cookie jar. No jail time, yet. Maybe later.
      Human nature is predictable in its unpredictability. The more complex the system the more prone it is to error and human frailty, greed and obtuseness.
     Our country is beset by  human fire ants and termites doing their damage. Most infest the government and the crony corruptocratic corporatists and fascists that dominate the landscape
      It’ staggering that 500,000 people, a city the size of Tucson or Long Beach, just disappeared into some government statistical netherworld.This has been going on for years now.  Job growth is negative. Even the talking heads have trouble doing their Cirque Del Soliel contortions of lies and deceit. 
    The employed population hs dropped by 10,000,000 since KLUMMAC seized power 5 years ago. That’s New York or LA in scope. There’s no hue and cry. There’s scarely voiced anguish  heard about the labor participation rate at 62 and dropping. Youth unemployment is 35%; 20% plus in the adult population.  This SHOULD BE completely and totally unacceptable.  It’s inconceivable that millions of formerly productive, gainfully employed adults can exist without a job for years.  Yet here we are.  One heck of a fix if you ask me. The desperation and anguish is muted to the point that it’s nearly unhearable. That’s what government largesse does to the human spirit and soul. $1 trillion a year is shelled out for the sole purpose of keeping people quiet.
    We debate endlessly as to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin while statistics becomes a sharp elbow contact sport. The MSM shoves these around like soccer balls on the field. These statistics are real people, not pawns or talking points.   The country flounders while we, the collective vox populi, talk  crap. 
    Was Bengazi a terrorist attack? Is the movie Sole Survivor sufficiently realistic? Should Jodie Arias get the needle? What did Hilary Clinton know and when did she know it? Is Chris Christy a fat bastard? (Sorry; had to get that one in)
    Nothing is being said or done about this. It’s as if we are all asleep at the wheel, distracted by the music. 
    Someone knows how bad it is but does nothing about it.  
      Someone know how bad it is AND has been part and parcel of getting us to this point. We’ve been going down this road for over 40 years. Gold was shoved overboard. Debt started in the hundreds of billions, reaching $1 trillion during Reagan’s first year in office  
    Since then we have seen an average of $500 billion in new debt added to the national debt pile. We’ve slouched into $17 trillion of debt, a pile that continues to grow at $1 trillion a year.  The more debt added, the worse off is the economy. Comparisons to addiction are perfect. After 3-5 major bubbles burst, 2-3 wars with their coarse effects on this country, not to mention the trillions of dollars of damage to other countries, more debt just exacerbates the problems.

    There’s a globe girdling reset coming soon, with a vaccum longing to be filled by more responsible adults.
    China seems to be the most likely country to fill the void. 
    We own a spoiled currency still being consumed well past its ‘use-by’ date. The world is starting to puke it up.
    China says ‘no mas’. Like you said, EdB, they are shunning the dollars, shifting their stack through indirect channels and world wide purchases, buying real goods and commodities,  thus jamming the dollar back into the Fed and the dealer banks.
    The dollar is a Hot Potato. 
    No one wants to hold it when the music stops.
    Willie does make an interesting point that the US banks are being flooded with deposits that earn nothing, sitting like mouldy lumps on the deposit side of the the balance sheet, dropping in value due to the deflationary effects of dollar debasement.   US deposits now tip in at $10 trillion with no place to go. No good assets to buy, by and large no good loans to make, the banks have to pay FDIC insurance on these deposits. They’re static, not earning enough at the Fed or other bond watering holes to make it worth the bank’s while to keep them on the books. They are just one huge costly liability for the banks and they are stuck with them.
    Deposits are being shunned or, if the bank honors them, they’ll have a defacto NIRP rate of return. I got in my bank’s face to stop this but know how to negotiate those fees and charges downward.
     There is one crowd who has this fat target in sighe.
    These deposits and pension plans are in the cross hairs of those who would confiscate these funds to balance their books.
    The Fed, ECB and IMF want to bail-in and bail out their world with these funds. The IMF just ran up the 10% wealth confiscation tax last month.
     I am certain TPTB in the Fed, the 12 member banks and top echelon of the TBTF banks are scared spitless as their worst case scenarios are playing out. They are not in control and yet they know they are responsible for the incoming debacle.  They will be held accountable.  The living wills forced on the banks by Dodd Frank and BASEL III are doing their wrecking ball damage. The bankers are a victims of their own greed and stupidity.
    Willie says a whole new prison system is being built to house these SOBs.

    Just because a system is complex does not make it good, beautiful or operational.
    It’s like a huge array of dominoes spread across the gymnasium floor. The first domino was tipped some time ago.  The slow progression is now an event that is unstoppable, moving faster and faster as the dominos tip into each other.
    Maybe Willie is right and we’ve been dumbed down by electronic radiation, smart phones, chemtrails, crappy food, flouride along with the stealthy adulterants such as disinfo, agitprop and MOPE, much of which as susbstantial as  mental cotton candy.  We’ve left ourselves ripe for the picking, a bunch of hormone-feed cattle waiting for the kill shot. 
    One last thought.
    I think that Obamacare will be a major tipping point
    It will be unaffordable for most
    It will require trillions in subsidies
    It will force insurance companies into bankruptcy, requiring bail-ins
    It will reduce the population of good doctors and hospitals
    It will create a treadmill of ‘dead people walking’
    It will create vast new printing and debt to sustain the unsustainable
    It will create a national and moral bankruptcy of this country.

    The only way to pay for and solve these incipient national bankruptcy paradigms is the theft of bank deposits and pension plans.
    The IRS knows that we own and where we hold it, via disclosures in the health care documentation and our tax returns.
    We will be forced to disclose our assets and income. I’ve seen this requirement up close and personal and shunned it.
    The IRS will be the gatekeeper on our health care and the collector of that debt. It will be an open and shut case for everyone who uses health care in this country
    Keep stacking and keep it well hidden.
     

    • The bankers are a victims of their own greed and stupidity.
      Willie says a whole new prison system is being built to house these SOBs.
       
      They will only be housed there if the current jailers are ousted!
      Put this guy there:
       

    • @AGXIIK
       
      “My thoughts are more along the lines of any human system, no matter how smart or, worse yet, how intellectual, being able to control the hundreds, thousands or even millions of variables involved in their plans for domination.”
       
      And yet, it is this very thought that should give us all a great deal of hope for a better future.  The elites are not all-knowing or all-powerful.  Their plans are subject to these very same human flaws… unless they are not human, of course.
       
      “We debate endlessly as to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin…”
       
      We do?  I first heard of this argument more than 50 years ago.  At the ripe old age of 12, I thought it was the dumbest thing I had ever heard.  While other things have eclipsed it in the past half century, it is still in the top 5.
       
      “The dollar is a Hot Potato.”
       
      My image of it is as a live grenade, the pin has been pulled, the spoon has flipped off, the fuse is burning down, and economists / banksters are now busily tossing it back and forth until… BOOM!  End-game.
       
      “No good assets to buy, by and large no good loans to make…”
       
      IMO, the banksters are just too happy with the UST paper carry-trade to get off their fat butts and make good loans.  These idiots vacillate from a no-rules loan system to a Draconian one for which very few can quality.  The fix was in for auto loans, though, and we’ve all seen LOTS of them over the past year.  As to assets, the Chinese seem to have NO trouble whatever in finding LOTS of great assets to buy.  Perhaps they, unlike the usual Western banksters and economists, are not suffering from a terminal rectal-cranial inversion?  ;-)
       
      “They (bank deposits) are just one huge costly liability for the banks and they are stuck with them.”
       
      They do seem to be treating them in that manner.  Why grovel for deposits when one can easily get loads of free money from the Fed?  That sure beats working for it.  No wonder the banksters consider depositors as “unsecured creditors”.  Of course, we all know that this slight-of-hand term is being used in order to steal these deposits when the time is right.  If fiat was real money, these deposits would be self-securing and have all of the security they need.  As fiat paper, however, it has no intrinsic value and is a PITA to have around.  Oh, for the days of the real economy, when banks lived and died based on the strength of their deposits and their managers doing good business instead of all the smoke and mirrors BS that is so prevalent today.
       
      “I am certain TPTB in the Fed, the 12 member banks and top echelon of the TBTF banks are scared spitless as their worst case scenarios are playing out. They are not in control and yet they know they are responsible for the incoming debacle.  They will be held accountable.”
       
      I’m not thinking that.  I am thinking that they are gonna ride this horse straight into the ground, hop off at the last possible moment, and then skip town with all their ill-gotten gains.  That would be MUCH more like these cretins than meekly waiting around for the towns-folk to show up with torches, pitchforks, and nooses.
       
      “I think that Obamacare will be a major tipping point”
       
      Agreed.  He||, AG, it might even be THE tipping point.  :-(
       
      “It will force insurance companies into bankruptcy, requiring bail-ins”
       
      Sorry, no bail-ins for jou!  The Obamunists want to be rid of the d@mned insurance companies, so what better way than to force them into an economically untenable financial position and then not rescue them?  That clears the way for the gubmint to assume FULL control of the entire health care system and not merely the admin end.  And all this s**t about health care IS about control and not about health, right?
       
      “Keep stacking and keep it well hidden.”
       
      Indeed.  Listen up, noobs.  This is probably some of THE best advice, ever.  Take it to heart.  Take it as if your very life depended on it… because it very well might.
       

  13. PS  I’m all over the map on this subject.
    Subject 1 on my mind is Fukushima. Like you said, Sovereign Economist, this disaster could be a kill shot. 
    There is credible evidence that the newest part of this nightmare is a massive flow of Strontium 90 into the ocean. 
    This is from the coriums that are breaking down and spilling this radioactive isotope into the ocean  It is a bioaccumlator that moves up the food chain very quickly. It attaches to areas where there is calcium. That includes bones and calcium ion channels, right into the brain.
    This stuff could kill the Pacific Ocean  If that ocean dies, the planet dies.

    • “This stuff could kill the Pacific Ocean  If that ocean dies, the planet dies.”
       
      Such is the fate of every species that has ever lived upon the Earth.  When they violate their prime directive, they cease to exist as a viable species.  Before they know it, they are history.  With humans, it is the big brain that is our biological niche in the panoply of life.  But we are violating that niche via behaving VERY stupidly as far as Fukushima goes.  They say that cockroaches are highly resistant to radiation.  Perhaps it will be their turn next?
       

  14. @zman
    Moving this to a clean spot! Quoting you here: (direct paste)
    @undeRGRound
    “You have avoided direct dialog at least twice” I don’t recall, my apologies if I did.
    “you have never addressed my Domestic Liquidity of PM’s theory”
    What is it? No one can control a global physical market, not even the US MSM, the fact of the matter is investors in the US, Euro zone don’t seek a inflation hedge today, that is why silver is at $20 oz today, there is no other reason.
     
    As for avoiding, it could be that I did not use @Z, likely my error.
    Perhaps you do not read thru seeking out Zman replies, takes a lot of time!
    I do not either, prolly MY Bad.
     
    As for PAST shortages, I still believe they happened. In fact, Perth Mint just warned of a current shortage! But of course, they sell PMs as well. Even an honest PM seller has a vested interest, and may interpret current events thru that lens. Granted.
    But the German question, (300 tonnes) and I saw your answer above. But invasions of 3 out of the 7 middle eastern countries on the CIA hit list, and Gold was reportedly removed, says a lot! I know I am not going to change your mind, but there are numerous examples of “The Matrix” not being what it seems, all around us.
     
    My “Domestic PM Liquidity” theory is very simple. The accepted number of serious PM investors is less than 1% of the U$ population! Call it 3,000,000 people. My theory is that all TPTB has to do is keep the _domestic markets stocked_ in order to keep confidence in the U$D! Dead Simple. The CRIMEX sets prices and the domestic markets are brow-beaten by the MSM saying PMs ARE DEAD!!!
    I never said they had to comtrol Global PM Markets, just the domestic. They are reportedly scrambling to fill large international orders for the Chinese and India. Is CHINA lying about how much Gold they are buying??? If they are, it is a low-ball figure, I assure you!
    I like your counterpoints, but if you flesh them out a bit better it could help.
     
    RGR

    • @undeRGRound
       
      Read that whole article frothe perth mint.  It warns of temporary shortages *if* there is a run of demand from the investor world.  The hiccup is not at the mint level, but at the level of those fabricating blanks.  They can only make them so fast… so if demand really picks up the blanks can only keep coming at a max rate.

    • @mikeyj80
      K, thanx…
      Is this the only problem you see with my above post? Or is it to imply the whole thing is rubbish? Because that is definitely a
      TROLL Maneuver which is used a lot by those wishing to impune information. I’ve always stated that you and zman are not trolls,
      (or at least not good ones LOL)  JK
      However, I do like “seeing it from the other side” and always have. Really helps one’s worldview! 
       
      Maybe Zman is currently digesting this, and if nothing else, I’d love to have his and your contrarian views to my idea, and not just some cursory rebuttal of something like abusing the Perth Mint reference like I did above. BTW, thanks for pointing that out. I should have read deeper than that…

    • @undeRGRound
      I think your theory is flawed, if everyone thought $20 oz silver was so undervalued, they couldn’t keep enough silver on the shelves, yet there is plenty to meet demand.  That is what the market values silver today, there is nothing that can change that fact.
      If there was heavy inflation and fear, all the silver at $20 oz would be bought up in a matter of weeks, and yes price would have to go up higher.
      I really don’t think anyone in power really cares if silver trades higher, what difference does it make?    99.9% of population wouldn’t know or care, never mind think it makes the dollar look weak. 
      Like you said, no one can control global demand, if China and India need silver for solar panels and it causes silver to go up to $45 oz, who cares?    If the fundamentals improve for investment and industrial demand in the silver market, the price will move higher.
      The confidence in the dollar is based on international trading today, not the small group of physical silver buyers based in the US.

    • @zman
      I’ll give you SOME credit, you are setting your straw man arguments up closer to reality ;)
      I don’t believe you realize this. But you still overlook the portion of my thesis that I am hanging my hat on
      STRATIFIED MARKET DEMAND. The big central bank demands risen, and the huge orders are slow to fill.
      Our domestic individual investor demand is also being held down for:
      1. Fear of further suppression (lower prices, but DCA is the answer!)
      2. Harsher economic environment
      3. Lack of resources for stacking (but no lack of desire!)
      4. Diversion of Funds needed (most likely investors have other prepping needs to fulfill)
       
      Some of this may overlap your thinking. In my personal situation, change 1 factor to POSITIVE and I will stack MORE.
      I am currently unemployed, (maybe you noticed a spike in my SD activity?) but working on a solution. Actually 3 solutions…

    • @undeRGRound
       
      I was referring simply to the perth mint comment! i thought that was clear.  I really don’t have a comment on the rest of your argument but looking forward to the discussion it is creating.
       
       
      There is a lot of good stuff here at this site, but when the headline or money quote is all people read it often is taken way out of context from the whole article.  The author, Bron, actually is posting followup on that article posted here.
       
      I don’t intend to try to call anyones hypotheses out, but that was a misinterpretation of the facts, I hope all here would do me the same courtesy.  I like money more than I like pride so if I am wrong and need to rethink a strategy I want the straight story, not a bunch of people piling on agreements.

    • @mikeyj80
       
      OK, it’s all good. Thanks for pointing that out.
      I know this whole problem of the economy is more complex than any of us realize. I also believe (and you can verify this by re-reading some of my posts) that some of the viewpoints that Zman has made are now coming true, but from my perspective are due to the successful pounding of PMs for the reasons I listed above, I will re-post:
       
      Our domestic individual investor demand is also being held down for (by):
      1. Fear of further suppression (lower prices, but DCA is the answer!)
      2. Harsher economic environment
      3. Lack of resources for stacking (but no lack of desire!)
      4. Diversion of Funds needed (most likely investors have other prepping needs to fulfill)
      While I agree that it has became a “Self-Fulfilling Prophecy” of a sorts, I firmly believe it started with MARKET MANIPULATION!!!
      Now, it seems to have “normalized” and become set into the minds of investors, and the MSM can cherry-pick and find “evidence” that  investors are losing interest (partly agree, #1 above) and the economy is killing investment demand (#2 & 3) But I have seen more evidence of #4, people prepping more and new folks getting into preps, but feeling like their late start precludes PM investment.
      While this train of thought may have some correct observations of ”where we are”, it still is not correct in saying “we got here by normal Free Market Forces”. To me, that is the focal point of differences between the average SD poster and the dynamic duo of Zman and Mikey   :D   
       

    • @UndeRGRound

      Your last comment I agree with 100 percent, and frankly that is why I frequent here, a contradictory viewpoint forces one to test their mettle on their own thoughts.  I find that to be a good thing.

      And to be clear, the mettle I intend to test is my own, not anyone elses.

    • @RGR
      One issue I have with your Domestic PM liquidity theory is that the dollar’s credibility is squarely upon the world stage.  Domestically, it’s irrelevant until there is a collapse in price stability — and that’s still a longer way off.  As a result,  I really don’t think TPTB gives a rat’s behind what the domestic serfdom in the US thinks… nor do they feel any need to maintain domestic optics vis-a-vis metals prices OR the perception of the dollar.  I think these pricing games we are seeing now, are simply being executed to allow the bullion bankers to position themselves correctly AND COMPLETELY ahead of the price slingshot when they pull the trigger on what we might ‘affectionately’ call the coming ‘reverse manipulation.’  And, if we are right about their plans for the eventual (or sooner) demise of the dollar, this killshot will hit two birds at once….
      I think @zman has it right when he says, “…The confidence in the dollar is based on international trading today, not the small group of physical silver buyers based in the US.”  I’d simply add that I think this is doubly true for gold.

    • Actually, this dialog has forced me to come up with that latest post. I guess I had most of the thoughts circulating around up in there but our exchanges have made me put it into a readable structure. So this has been well worth it!  
      You a reaffirming my belief that you are a fine fellow. I rarely find people in real life that will discuss on this level, especially those that start from a point of seeming disagreement.

      @mikeyj80

    • @Sovereign Economist
       
      I think you and 99% of the U$A does not realize this, but if the citizens of the U$A lose confidence in the U$D, the entire house of cards COLLAPSES. PERIOD!
      We as the primary users of the @$$-wipe U$D hold the fate of the ENTIRE WORLD IN OUR HANDS.
       
      If we reject the U$D, the whole world goes up in flames. Period, end of story, End of an ERA.
      The whole house of cards is built upon THIS FOUNDATION.
      The rest of the world is looking for an out, without disturbing this foundation. If they see shakiness, they pull out too! Why do you think so much effort is expended on MOPE? For this very reason I list. You cannot disprove this. I can prove it, but really, only time will tell. It is the Matrix and I am Morpheus (JK!) 
       
      (sorry, not yelling, my alt. browser does not have bold and italics buttons LOL!)

    • @Sovereign Economist
      Sorry, double post.

      Awaiting a reply from Mr. S.E.!
      Most Respectfully, Sir!

    • @RGR
      Thanks for the homing beacon to this thread… no wonder I lost track of it, it’s a WEEK OLD!!!!
       
      Before I go too far on responding to your theory, please confirm for me that I understand your theory correctly when I have it that you are saying that, in order to prevent the US domestic population from losing confidence in the dollar, one of the strategies that [whoever] is employing to prevent this potential loss of confidence is to make sufficient physical gold and silver available to the masses (presumably retail) to meet domestic demand. == as in == your view is that it is necessary to maintain sufficient supply to meet the domestic demand in order to prevent a [potential] ‘crisis in confidence’ in the US dollar here in the US… (sounds redundant, but there is a subtle distinction in cause and effect I am trying to understand in your theoretical ‘schematic’ In other words, does TPTB feel that they must ensure supply to prevent a crisis in confidence, or does the crisis in confidence result from a lack of physical supply stocks.

      I ask for this distinction because it occurs to me that this discussion got it’s start when zman asserted there is no supply constraint in the system and I am wondering if your response to him was as if to say, “Of course not, because there is a guarantee of a supply to the ‘retail market’ in the US as the result of a need to maintain confidence domestically in the dollar, if not the economic conditions in the country.

  15. @Ed_B
    And you thought you had gotten away :D
     
    “I have a plan to buy PMs with BTC :D

    Well, RGR you know what they say… “Wanna make God laugh? Just tell Him YOUR plans!”. ;-)
     
    LAUGH all you want, but remember who you are {and aren’t ;) }and know this, your tag-team partner
    and my gool ole Uncle AG has given it his blessing  :D
    PLUS, I have found that there are now 9 NINE retailers accepting BTC for PMs!!!
    And a new HUGE PLAYER coming into the market SOON. You heard it here FIRST!
    This new one is always in the TOP Five of GoldShark Pricing, AFAIK 

    • @undeRGRound
      RGR you tease ;)

    • ;)

    • @UndeRGRound
       
      “LAUGH all you want, but remember who you are {and aren’t  }and know this, your tag-team partner
      and my gool ole Uncle AG has given it his blessing  ”
       
      Well, I hope that it all works out as you want.  Let’s make a deal, shall we?  If Bitcoin goes to the moon, you promise not to laugh.  If it goes into the crapper, I promise not to laugh.  Deal?  :-)
       
      As to my buddy, AG, well, he and I ONLY see eye to eye about 98% of the time, so I can give on the other 2%… occasionally.  ;-)

    • @Ed_B
      Thanks old Friend!
      My goal is not to gloat, but to build the stack. I will gladly blaze a path and help other SD’ers follow along if they see fit!
      Uncle AG is supportive, but I do not believe he is ready to jump in  ;) lol

    • @undeRGRound
       
      “My goal is not to gloat, but to build the stack.”
       
      Hear, hear!  :-D
       
      “I will gladly blaze a path and help other SD’ers follow along if they see fit!”
       
      Free choice is the best expression of goodness, IMO, so have at it and make us all proud!  :-)
       
      “Uncle AG is supportive, but I do not believe he is ready to jump in   lol”
       
      No, probably not.  At least, not until he can buy guns and ammo with Bitcoins!  
       

  16. Who’s this Uncle AG?  I ain’t got no relatives. I hate relatives.
    I’m a disagreeable curmudgeonly irrecondite son of a beach.  I disagree with everyone and am always wrong 
    ooooo—we’re having pudding tonight—-oooooo,  pudding.
    I love pudding

  17. EdB  You need to conjugate the other desciption.  Flatulous Gasbaggi  Verbosus.
    It’s the vocative dimention   Get the beano

  18. Moved it here for some “clear air” 
     
     
    @Sovereign Economist says:

    January 21, 2014 at 3:57 AM

    @RGR  (@undeRGRound works better LOL!)

    Thanks for the homing beacon to this thread… no wonder I lost track of it, it’s a WEEK OLD!!!!
     
    Before I go too far on responding to your theory, please confirm for me that I understand your theory correctly when I have it that you are saying that, in order to prevent the US domestic population from losing confidence in the dollar, one of the strategies that [whoever] is employing to prevent this potential loss of confidence is to make sufficient physical gold and silver available to the masses (presumably retail) to meet domestic demand. == as in == your view is that it is necessary to maintain sufficient supply to meet the domestic demand in order to prevent a [potential] ‘crisis in confidence’ in the US dollar here in the US… (sounds redundant, but there is a subtle distinction in cause and effect I am trying to understand in your theoretical ‘schematic’ In other words, does TPTB feel that they must ensure supply to prevent a crisis in confidence, or does the crisis in confidence result from a lack of physical supply stocks.
    I ask for this distinction because it occurs to me that this discussion got it’s start when zman asserted there is no supply constraint in the system and I am wondering if your response to him was as if to say, “Of course not, because there is a guarantee of a supply to the ‘retail market’ in the US as the result of a need to maintain confidence domestically in the dollar, if not the economic conditions in the country.
     
     
    I think the answer you need, is that:
    I believe TPTB are insuring a domestic supply to prevent a crisis in confidence. 
    Ponzi 101 (in my opinion) “Keep the disorderly FEW happy, in order to placate the majority” 
     
    The other 99+% that do not buy PMs have their confidence bolstered because the <1% are satisfied that they can get Phyzzz at these artificially low PM Prices. Plus, the “1%” is shrinking, because no one (most) don’t want to buy at $20 when we see the possibility of $18, or $15, or even LESS. In my mind, they finally seem to have the leverage they want, but it took nearly 3 years from the April 2011 highs when we nearly broke the $50 barrier. If I were currently employed, I would be DCA-ing all the way down and back up to the “New Nominal Highs”  :)
    Hope that clears it up. 

    • OK… I think I understand the underpinnings of your theory…
      To begin, while there are private sector sources of supply for precious metals here in the US, the presumption is that the government, at least for the moment, has nothing to say about supply or demand for things like bars, rounds and Constitutional money aka ‘junk’ silver… So, in relation to the TPTB influence in this arena, we can probably safely say their influence is confined to the coinage produced by the US Mint – aka the Public Sector.
      While Congress has authorized the mintage of the gold and silver eagles “in sufficient quantities to meet demand.”  I’m not sure that they didn’t alter that language somewhat in a recent change to the law which was designed to allow them to actually put a limit on the coinage they were required by law to produce in order not to be lawfully compelled to supply a run on gold or silver if demand went through the roof or when supplies went to zero.  Back a few years ago, I think there was some concern that demand could, in fact, outstrip supply and the original language might force them to produce beyond their supply capability.  Remember that the law also compelled the mint to use metals sourced only from domestic (US) supplies.  More recently, there is some suspicion that perhaps some of the metal supplied to the mint is in fact, being sourced from outside the US borders.
       
      Given the Congressional mandate to mint gold and silver commemoratives, you are technically accurate in your assessment that there is a need to insure the domestic supply…and… gosh golly, comply with the law, however it’s presently in effect.  But, at it’s source, I am not sure the law was put in place to placate a few coin accumulators as a means of insuring domestic tranquility.  I more think the law was passed as a matter of national prestige and pride… many other countries produce commemorative coinage as a matter of national tradition as well and we see a market for them here in the US as well… Mapleleafs, Kookaburras, Krugerrands, Pandas… and so on…
       
      I’m really not sure that TPTB really cares whether there is a domestic supply of coinage for any other reason.  In fact, given the absolute discrediting of the metals in the MOPE media of today, I have to wonder if they would actually try to make possession of the metals within America a criminal offense if they thought they could get away with it.   And perhaps this actually would serve to support your theory that they are insuring a supply to prevent social unrest.
       
      But, given the small percentage of people in the US who are actually aware of the financial storm that may be coming our way, it’s hard for me to envision a scenario in which they would care about appeasing a group of precious metals stackers when they have already snowed the masses into the paper markets of Comex or the paper charade that is the ETFs such as GLD or SLV.  In fact, we have seen GLD’s supposed physical backing evaporate by nearly half in a year and NO ONE is even raising any warning flags, let alone marching on Wall Street or the Capitol.  Stacking is so marginalized in the press that I suspect nothing else needs to be done… at least for now.
       
      As to the supply issue mentioned here by folks like ZMAN, yeah, there’s a supply of ounces at the tail end of the supply whip… stackers aren’t looking for tons… there aren’t enough of us to require tons… just as there aren’t enough of us to make any political or social waves if the metal supply were to suddenly dry up and vanish.  But even if there were, I suspect the mockingbird media would just ignore or marginalize us like they have so many other stories of import to freedom-loving America.
       
      It is your reply to my other comment that is also worth a response.
      You wrote: “…I think you and 99% of the U$A does not realize this, but if the citizens of the U$A lose confidence in the U$D, the entire house of cards COLLAPSES. PERIOD!  We as the primary users of the @$$-wipe U$D hold the fate of the ENTIRE WORLD IN OUR HANDS.   If we reject the U$D, the whole world goes up in flames. Period, end of story, End of an ERA….”
      Your hypothetical “IF” may have merit, but since we are the WRC (World Reserve Currency) it will be foreigners that feel the loss of confidence before we do here in the US domestically.  And, until they rebel against it by rejecting it, we’ll remain oblivious of the effects here in the US.  As a practical matter, it has already happened (Think BRICS, Turkey Gold Exchanges, Russia-China, India-Iran)  As an example, flash back to Tunisia in January and  Egypt in February,  2011 which erupted in violence against their respective regimes.  Now, while you could point to our CIA-MI6-Mossad social infiltration teams as being the cause of those flare-ups, it’s important to realize that in both countries, inflation had risen to the point where it was costing Tunisians and Egyptians over half their wages just to feed their families, up from a quarter of those wages just a year earlier. In other words, they had experienced a doubling of their food prices in one year.  Without that impetus, it’s unlikely the globalists could ever have incited the people of these two countries to rise up and enable the intended regime changes in the first place. Now, what’s important to understand is that their food price inflation was a direct result of the inflation exported by Bernanke’s Fed through the early QE efforts into the rest of the world because of the role of the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency.  And YET, while all this was going on outside our borders, here in the US, we didn’t experience much of any increase in inflation at all.
       
      The point here is that because the USD is WRC, we are insulated from those foreign inflationary effects. The crisis in the currency starts outside the US.  But when you really examine this, it explains how we were able to get the world to pay for our affluence and advantage for the 40 years since Kissinger conned the Saudis into accepting our debt as payment for their oil. — the ONLY reason why we accrued the benefits of the petrodollar… we didn’t have to pay for our largesse in anything other than promissory notes… all that gasoline you’ve bought in the US since 1973… you haven’t paid of it yet. YOU STILL OWE YOUR 40 year GASOLINE Bill… no wonder we’re so well off while the masses in the rest of the world know only poverty. That’s maybe a bit of hyperstatement, but not by as much as most might realize. Foreigners outside the US forced to deal in our WRC dollars have had to deal with this for decades all while we in the US and, to a lesser extent, the western developed world, sat back and grew fat off the labors of the foreigner’s toil and sweat.
       
      Bottom line:  By the time the US People begin to even question the value of their currency, the domestic reaction will be the least of our worries because, by then, the rest of the world will be in flames… or declaring war against us when we can no longer afford to defend ourselves. Indeed, the term “Currency Wars” is deadly serious and very descriptive… and the US is the undisputed world leader in the use of that weapon. But the rest of the world is catching up. FAST! REALLY FAST!!!

    • So it seems you are saying it is incidental, where I say it is by design. Maybe I read too much Bix Weir but it seems entirely feasible that we could upset the domestic supply of PMs (through massive purchases) and drive the markets substantially Higher, I believe we could bring the whole things tumbling down. The other countries of the world are switching over (BRICS, etc) which you cite, so IMO it would be a combined effort. If nothing else, and this is undeniable, we could cause a new pressure point that will make life harder for TPTB. Much Harder. 
      This is why I like to discuss these ideas, it leads to a better understanding of the “big picture”. In my professional life, I have made it a specialty in “seeing the forest despite the trees” which is hard for most people. This “Domestic Liquidity Theory” is relatively new, but it explains an apparent glitch in the system of the “man behind the curtain”. You are showing a possible natural mechanism that does the same thing. Might be an unintended consequence of the system in which we are immersed. But in wilder times, when everyone was crazy for PMs, I can assure you that this “natural mechanism” will not suffice. They will, once again, have to “juice” the domestic PM markets. 
      It’s all about this, at a later stage:
      Two campers were hiking in the forest when all of a sudden a bear jumps out of a bush and starts chasing them. Both campers start running for their lives, when one of them stops and starts to put on his running shoes.
      His partner says, “What are you doing? You can’t outrun a bear!”
      His friend replies, “I don’t have to outrun the bear, I only have to outrun you!”
       
      What we are trying to do here, is, 
      TRIP the BEAR!!! 
      As we go down this road to the eventual end, all the sheeple will get FLEECED. The more folks we wake up, and help to prepare, the less money TPTB will harvest in the coming vortex. We need to interrupt the 
      cycle. 

  19. You are describing, I think, the essence of Max Keiser’s “Crash JP Morgan” strategy from a while back, wherein he said that, if everyone bought silver, we could bring the bankers down.  I remember telling an assembly of Republican voters that if they wanted to make a real difference in the future of the country, rather than go to the voting booth to cast ballots for the 2010 election, they, instead, needed to go to the local coin shop and each buy a single ounce of silver, or, if they could afford it, two ounces.  If every registered voter did this, we would have pulled 120,000,000+ ounces out of the silver-market float and that might have been enough of a demand spike to collapse the silver market around JPM’s short-position neck and domino the banker cabal that is paying off the corrupt politicians these people keep electing.  When Occupy Wall Street gathered in my local city, I got quite a crowd gathered around me saying essentially the same thing until the organizers brought the cops to kick me out of what turned out to NOT be an organic gathering of the People, but rather an organized disinformation event.
     
    That kind of mass action on the part of the American People would have a powerful effect.  Although, I’m not sure it would be the same thing as repudiating the dollar in everyday commerce.  I am not optimistic that the People would ever make the connection between precious metals and their fiat dollar, and certainly not en masse.  When I had to explain to the Occupy gathering around me that a pre-65 quarter WAS different than the cupro-nickel solid washers they carry in their pockets to exchange for sodas at the local Circle K,  I realized just how ignorant the People have been trained to be on these matters and that the uphill climb to the mountain of awareness was a lot steeper than I ever thought it would be.
     

    • SO Then? 
      Let’s Do This! 
      I tell lots of folks to buy PMs but as you note, they are asleep. I will continue to purchase PMs and alert those around me. I started very young, but was obviously not really schooled in PMs or real coinage, although I had a nice small collection. I bought one of those 20 gram “Franklin Mint” type things at the age of 15. A few years later, (1980 run up) my investment was worth DOUBLE what I had paid, but even then I knew it was not worth selling it, and it should continue to increase. Dangit, 1/2 right again LOL! 
       
      I see we are of the same mind on this, but I think there have been times where TPTB have tried to keep some supply in the hands of individual investors, to bolster the image of “all is well” and keep the natives CALM. At least the Potemkin Village (if it exists) will not be required much longer, and be swept away soon. 

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