If you live in the city of Houston, TX and are selling physical gold or silver, you are now officially considered a criminal until proven otherwise, as Houston’s City Council has passed an ordinance requiring anyone selling gold or silver to be fingerprinted and photographed, as well as requiring photographs be taken of all items being sold precious metals dealers.
Misplaced laws restricting the sale and acquisition are not about deterring crime as government officials would have their citizens believe, but are about ostrasizing and restricting the use of precious metals as a wealth preservation asset.
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As Infowars reports:
Last week the Houston City Council passed an ordinance requiring people who sell precious metals to be fingerprinted and photographed.
According to KTRK-TV, the ordinance is “meant to help track down criminals who try to resell stolen valuables. Gold-buying businesses will now be required to photograph and fingerprint sellers as well as photograph the items that are being sold to the dealer.” In other words, citizens who sell gold will be considered criminals until they demonstrate otherwise.
“It’s going to allow us the tools necessary to combat a lot of the high-end jewelry thefts that’s going on in the city, whether it’s robberies or burglaries,” Houston Police Officer Rick Barajas told the news station last Wednesday.
Full story from KTRK-TV in Houston:
![[Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]](http://www.kitconet.com/images/live/s_silv.gif)
![[Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]](http://www.kitconet.com/images/live/s_gold.gif)
Ebay biatch -> ASE/AGE = collectible tokens
So, you must now take the ‘mark’ to buy or sell in Houston. Very prophetic.
Houston, we have a problem.
Get the F- out of here.
Defy this law. I would.
Granted this is just one city but I’ve always thought of Texas as a “good” state. One that might be safe to retreat to. They’ve been doing some sketchy things there lately though.
@Silver Alert
Texas as a people are independently minded and have a pretty overall go it yourself attitude with a ton of culture, but I would say the problems with our state are A) The politicians we have at the state level are just as corrupt as Washington’s, our governor is Rick Perry to remind you. B) We have had so many illegals come into our state and leech off the system costing us tax payers C) Sorry don’t mean to offend anyone but we have had too many people from California and the New England Yankee states move down here. It muddles our independent true Texans with collectivist minded out of Staters.
As a born and raised Texan, I have to agree with Orion on this one. Seems like we have more of the unwanted liberal mindset moving into our great state. The political offices of our state are also being polluted with idiot liberals that can’t count to ten without using their fingers. I don’t see how a gold or coin dealer could stay in business with anti-business city ordinance like that. I’d either drive to another city to sell, or just trade for things or services I need with a private individual as I’ve done in the past. If the city where I live were to pass a crap ordinance like that, I’m sure a lot of folks in my neighborhood would raise some Texas sized hell at city hall.
“Sorry don’t mean to offend anyone but we have had too many people from California and the New England Yankee states move down here. It muddles our independent true Texans with collectivist minded out of Staters.”
Yeah? Well join the club. I live in WA state and the Seattle area is absolutely over-run with Californicators. Not content to stay home and muck up their own state, they have to come up here and do the same for us. WA is a blue state because there are so many of these folks in the Seattle area, which has just over 1/2 of the state’s 5.5M population. As Seattle votes, so votes the state on most issues. The other 95% of the state (by area) that is not in the Seattle area pretty much gets dragged along for the leg-tingle leftist ride whenever some new and idiotic idea comes along. We have been able to fend off the institution of a state income tax so far but won’t be able to do that much longer if many more of these folks come in here.
Tyranny is good for you and it’s one more tool for the cops to help protect you. Right, Sure! When the crash happens they want a list of who to rob first. Kind of tarnishes “no pun intended” that idea about “free Texas”.
First the sellers – next the buyers.
And hey! If it’s to try to round up jewellery thieves, why does it (seem to) apply to all precious metals?
This is not legitimate any way you look at it.
Don’t sell your metal in Houston until such time as that ordinance is repealed. I rely less and less on shops as of late. Last year a good acquaintance needed some cash and he sold me some of his Silver at spot. It helps to convince others that you know to invest in metal. You can network like that and help each other out.
C&P from FB side …
These things are tax statutes. Taxes are charges for government services. Government ‘guarantees’ the private ‘intellectual property’ of bankers’ (trade facilitation) notes … thus taxes all exchanges in them.
Trade gold for silver or silver for copper or any combination of them for any other good or service and both ‘middlemen’ are Lawfully excluded from the transactions. Nothing for government to extra-Constitutionally ‘protect’ amd no banker’s ‘trade facilitation’ to pay interest on.
These stores will need to close shop and move elsewhere. Houston like many large cities have numerous suburbs so everyone will just drive 20 miles and sell. Then there’s quite a few mid-sized cities like Galveston and Austin within 1 to 2.5 hours drive.
Also, this city has a crime problem. It’s gotten big and dangerous!!!
That is why the sheep need to start protecting themselves with guns. Catch someone breaking in shoot them, no warning shot, just drop them where they stand.
So they take your finger prints, they take your mug shot, they photograph your delivery/purchase. Then what? Don’t worry about it. Just buy it and live some place else. Maybe Utah or one of the Channel Islands?
I am looking at Guernsey more and more and thinking, hmm Victor Hugo, you lived as you wrote.
FYI – Houston City Council is full of the geniuses that voted to approve a several million dollar contract for red light cameras that they later had to break due to public demand and ended up costing the city millions in settlement fees (to the red light camera operating company):
http://blog.chron.com/houstonpolitics/2012/02/city-settles-red-light-camera-suit/
Seems like Helena Brown may be the only member of the council with a brain.
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Prime+minister+wife+sells+entire+stock+portfolio/7802376/story.html
Did anyone see this story Jan 10, 2013 ?- looks like Canada’s prime minister got out of paper
@reddy: That’s interesting! Insiders are jumping ship and selling off stock everywhere. The one to watch is Hitlary Clinton. If she is selling then the fix is most certainly in. She manipulated the healthcare stocks to her advantage and got rich in the nineties.
Yes, she did… and there was something about “cattle futures” back then as well. :-O
Did not see the story but thanks for the URL. Interesting indeed, although difficult to know what is really going on there. Was that an economic decision or a political decision? Politicians seem to be so confused about these and often make decisions badly because of it.
These political parasites in Houston are just another version of the same breed who demands obeisance from the sheeples.
These poli-tics hear about a problem and start writing laws without a thought of consequences. Hell, they probably listened to some rumbling in their intestinal track and thought it would be a good idea to write a law based on their bowel movement. The results are just about the same.
Gold and silver will find outlets regardless of some jackass politician signing a restrictive law. But in reality it’s all about control. These collectivist assholes are all about control and extracting every penny of revenues from people who have the sense to acquire precious metals.
This is almost identical to the debate about guns.
Control, control and more control. And gathering a data base of honest ,law abiding citizens. You get photographed and fingerprinted like some common criminal.
It’s not about catching the bad guys. They will skip any attempt to corral them.
People who own either or both know these items, these commodities, are vital elements of personal freedom and escape from the corrupt currency system.
People who own these items scare the crap out of these idiots elected by the people. Vote them out at the next election. It goes to the great line ‘Freedoms are not secure when the legislature is in session’
Texas has a law on the books regarding sales tax on Silver up to $1000.00 on a purchase. There is no sales tax on purchases beyond that. This may be the reason. Dealers may not be honoring the sales tax on small amounts purchased.
You may want to email https://www.preservationofwealth.net/(S(vulg0ttxrblkgj1bvxq2ti5g))/ to find out the Skinny as they have a membership sales plan in force. They are based nationally in Addison, Texas next to Dallas.
Ranger
There is no way in he|| that I am ever gonna submit to BS of that kind. I seriously doubt that this will survive even a cursory constitutional court challenge. One can hope, anyway. Can’t wait until some gal in a burka goes in there and they want to photograph her! Can we say s**t-storm?
Boycotting ALL businesses in Houston over this would not be an over-reaction, IMO, and those who own businesses there as well as the local politicians should be made aware of what this is costing them. Like the traffic light camera fiasco, this too should fizzle… and those responsible for it fired from their cushy “public service” jobs for the foreseeable future. Let them get REAL jobs for a while and actually DO something productive to EARN a living, rather than simply leaching off of the body politic.
As to the cop in the video… no, I am NOT interested in surrendering my rights in order to make your job easier. Protecting my rights, particularly my property rights, is the ONLY reason you have a job. So, get on with doing it and leave the honest citizens alone.
Besides… if this is allowed to stand, what will they want next? DNA samples from all buyers and sellers? Well F*** them! And the sway-backed flea-bitten nag they rode in on too!
DO buyers (of silver and gold)
also have to Submit Fingerprints & Mugshots?
probably
A quick PS Call me paranoid. I would consider it a compliment.
The DHS has specific instructions to police departments to transfer data files on any person in their system to DHS so that they can compile dossiers on citizens who belong to extremist groups. Those groups are whatever DHS deems them to be. Did you buy or own a gun? Did you buy or sell silver or gold? Those two dots are way to close to the Constitution to be ignored by DHS. Constitutionalists have been getting a bad name lately. Obama made a big to-do about the 2nd Amendment in the SOTU address.
LEO is sending their officers to the DHS for special paramilitary training. If you are printed and photographed, given the FBI software system for facial recognition and the abilities of any law enforcement service to bring up the data on anyone in the system, a simple gun owner and stacker could just as easily be labeled a threat as someone affiliated with a hate group, whatever that might be. I’m screwed if that’s the case. Being in the Brady speed lane is not an asset IMO
“Obama made a big to-do about the 2nd Amendment in the SOTU address.”
Didn’t watch that. Figured that trying to swallow that much BS at one sitting would make me puke.
Yes, the Obamunists have created a real s**t-storm with their assault-speech on the 2nd Amendment. The egg on their faces is virtually ear to ear, as Dem senators from mostly rural and farming states cannot go along with Obummer’s plans and remain in power. Since remaining in power trumps ALL else in DC, they MUST vote against any such move in the US Senate. The US House, of course, SHOULD have more sense than to entertain these anti-constitutional and tyrannical views. Whether they actually do or not, of course, remains to be seen. They need to take a page from Harry Reid’s senate operations manual and simply refuse to bring any such proposals to a vote. When the leftist crying and sniveling begins, and we all know that it will, they should simply say that they ARE fulfilling their constitutional duty of defending the people’s right to self-protection from infringement… and then move on to doing something useful.
We sure don’t hear any of these socialist anti-constitutionalist’s yapping about all the gun violence on TV and in the movies, now do we?
Or the FACT that 60% to 75% of Americans, depending on demographic are on prescribed anti-depressants that list among side effects violent outbursts or tendencies and/or thoughts of suicide……Don’t get me started….
This could be a tax matter – Authorities trying to tie PM sales to tax returns – if you sell PM you had to have it declared as asset in your last tax return, and declare the sale in the next one, on which u are presumably taxed. If u did not have it on your last return u are in IRS trouble, and same if u dont declare the sale in your current return. Purchase and sale of PMs can be under the radar of the IRS (transactions can easily be done in cash and thus no paper trail).
But here’s the joke. If PMs are “money”, then how can you tax profits on purchase and sale of “money”? So, PMs have to be called something else – like “collectibles” for instance, so they “qualify” for taxation.
Thats maybe why Bernanke said Fort Knox gold was not “money”, and held for “tradition” purposes only. Funny then how every country in the world declares its foreign exchange reserves as US Dollars PLUS Gold. If gold was not money, then one country could not pay off its debt to another in Gold – but guess what – they routinely do.
The bullshit around PMs flows thick and fast from the lips of the Authorities, as they scramble to cap its value and say its not money. Nothing tells the truth more about a currency’s value than how its priced in Gold – just look at the Yen price of Gold that shot up with the Japanese declaring their intention to devalue the Yen. Gold going up in a currency shows how that country is depreciating its currency, which is super, hidden, tax on savers and consumers, and needs to be kept SECRET.
Dont believe the OFFICIAL bullshit and keep on stacking.
Andyz
Bingo you got it dead bang on. All this rotates to taxes and revenues. Back 3 years ago Obamacare had a provision that any buying or selling of $600 plus in good and services had to be disclosed through a 1099 sent to the IRS If you sold something to a business they have to have a file on the sale with you name address and SS number. I own a business so the paperwork would have been monumental. That provision was defeated but don’t think we are past this issue. When precious metals come back up on the radar scope IRS and government revenues you can be assured that someone will reintroduce this measure. 1099 contain so much personal data that the IRS pretty much owns you with this information source. I’m in a battle with California over 1099s issued by Cal banks. The Franchise Tax Board wants my money and is determined to prove that I still live in Cali. We moved to Nevada to escape that tax slave gulag.
These broke dick dumbasses couldn’t find a whorehouse in Nevada with a hand full of hundreds. Hookers are legal here but that’s not why we moved.
One of the provisions of Obamacare was the hiring of 16,000 more iRS agents. The provisions of Bamacare are not about healthcare. They are about controlling peoples’ lives by forcing them into a health care cattle chute and extracting money from our pockets. Anything that represents freedom and the ability to provide for yourself without the government having a say in the transaction means the government loses revenues and control.
I have said this before and will never stop saying it. I will never pay taxes on the sale of precious metals. Period and end of story. And if they want to ‘Drone me’ so be it. Shit flows from their lips like the stranded cruise liner’s overflowing toilets.
“I will never pay taxes on the sale of precious metals.” You can better make your case if your PM’s are held in the form of gold and silver eagles and pre-1933 Saints and Libs., items that are minted by the Treasury with monetary value stamped on the coin.
Roger that Ugly Dog
there are some wide pathways to avoid taxes on PMs. Some involve the number of coins, some on the type of coin (ASE, foreign or gold) and others relate to the number of ounces.
The way laws are written, and hopefully stay that way, they make it possible to sell phyzz under the radar. My LCS and bullion dealers are not well versed on when to issue a 1099 except when the sale is large. A little over a year ago I asked my CPA about silver and gold IRS disclosure rules. It’s somewhere in my files but not in the ‘best of’ file on SD.
In any case, a quick little covert call to your accountant will give you the basic rules. You can work around that once you know those rules. Some people bought a a low price so $31 an ounce represents a very large capital gain. Some people bought at $40 and have a loss.
If nothing else, selling at $31 and harvesting a loss in 2013 where the capital gain tax went up a lot might help a phyzz owner get some shelter against other gains, especially those exiting the overprice equity markets and rotating into hard assets. Be careful of wash sale rules as well.
Wash sale rule only applies if you sell a stock 30 days before or after a claimed loss and then buy it or a very similar asset back. If you are not buying it back, not buying it back within 60 days, or not claiming a loss, then no problem. Good to bring up, though, as there are bound to be a few cases where it could apply to some investors.
Below is the most accurate summary of current tax reporting requirements on the sale of your phyzz that I have come across. Taken from the CMI Gold and Silver website. Reporting is one thing. Tax liability is another matter.
Reportable Sales
Customer sales to dealers of certain precious metals exceeding specific quantities call for reporting to the IRS on 1099B forms. The 1099B forms are similar to other 1099 forms taxpayers commonly receive; the “B” means they have been issued by a business other than a financial entity.
Reportable sales (again, customer sales to dealers) apply to 1-oz Gold Maple Leafs, 1-oz Krugerrands, and 1-oz Mexican Onzas in quantities of twenty-five or more in one transaction. Reporting requirements do not apply to American Gold Eagles, no matter the quantities. Furthermore, reporting requirements do not apply to any fractional ounce gold coins.
Only one common silver product is reportable when sold: pre-1965 U.S. coins. The quantity that causes the filing of a 1099B, however, is not clear. The IRS bases its authority to require reporting on CFTC-approved contracts that call for the delivery of $10,000 face value. Consequently, many dealers do not report sales of pre-1965 U.S. coins unless the sale totals $10,000 face value; others report $1,000 sales.
Sales of American Silver Eagles, privately-minted Silver Eagle 1-oz silver rounds, and 100-oz silver bars are not reportable, no matter the quantity. Other precious metals products are reportable, but they are not covered here because the average investor does not trade them.
Most investors have no first-hand knowledge of these matters; consequently, when precious metals dealers talk about cash reporting, 8300 forms, or 1099s, investors are unable to know that they may not be hearing the whole story. Wanting to avoid the government knowing about their precious metals investments, many investors are delighted to learn that their purchases will not be reported and end up buying overpriced coins.
As explained under “Reportable Purchases,” no precious metals purchases are reported unless cash reporting thresholds are exceeded. Investors wanting to avoid reportable sales should buy American Eagles.
The above discussions about cash reporting, IRS Form 8300, and bank reporting are for editorial purposes only and should not be relied on as definitive and final. Persons involved in cash transactions should consult their attorney or accountant.
Investors wanting to buy gold should go with the popular bullion coins: Krugerrands or American Gold Eagles. These coins move dollar for dollar with the world price of gold and are easy to buy, sell, and trade. Additionally, tracking the value of these coins is easy. No “expert” has to look at them.
Houston City Council? Are you fucking kidding me? Run those stupid left-wing liberal fanatics out of the city on a donkey after you tarred and feathered them! Elections are a bitch, but they do work (sometimes). I just can’t believe that something so OBVIOUSLY a TOOL TO CONTROL CITIZENS would PREVAIL in, of all places, Texas!!!!!!
“Elections are a bitch, but they do work (sometimes).”
Indeed they are and they do seem to work best the more local they are.
Ed B
I guess my comment on wash sale was my feeble attempt to be sarcastic.
What I should have said was F*** the wash sale rule.
Walk in with your precious metal that can be sold at a loss, with the purchase records as your basis. Sell the silver, take the loss and then buy back the silver 5 minutes later. Tell the LCS you want a bit of a break in the buy back price since you need the tax loss. LCS owner makes maybe $1 oz to help you facilitate the sale. You record the tax loss sale. That’s what I would do if silver or gold prices dropped back by 10-20% That drop’s not likely so my example might be hypothetical. Some folks did buy in the low $40 range so they might be able to harvest cap loss or at least $3,000. that’s worth something on the overall tax bill.
4oz
is it ok to be a little nutzo and self medicate with gin and single malt? Ranger said he won’t trust anyone who doesn’t so I had to start drinking to trust myself
lol AGXIIK. I have always trusted your judgement. And pot is legal here now– so I guess both Ed B and me can move into the demograpgic that uses anti-depressants now….should we become users….
Compile list of gold/silver owners, check. Let the list be stolen(for a fee of course), check. Make the owners of gold and silver targets for thieves who buy blocks of names off the list, check…
Ugly Dog Thank you for posting the tax rules regarding the sale of precious metals. You hit the information out of the park.
Anyone who reads this should make two copies—one to keep with your phyzz and one with your ‘special files’. There’s no reason that a dealer should charge more for a coin because it has less of a chance of being taxed. I don’t think they think that far down the road. But it is very important that if one sells precious metals of any sort that the seller has this quick reference guide. If the dealer does not know the rules and wants to record the sale, pull out this sheet and show it to him or her. That should eliminate the chances of having a tax record or paper trail unnecessarily. Whether you’re planning to report the sale or not, knowing these rules is vital. Keeping sales under the radar is worthwhile too and be careful of cash sales.
One extra note is that trades between silver and gold can create a taxable event. According to the IRS gold and silver are regarded as different metals for investment purposes. If you trade gold, as I did a couple of times, for silver and the gold buy price was lower than the price at the time of the trade, this is considered a taxable trade since the gold is a bullion metal and silver in an industrial metal. Not that the dealer would likely know this but it’s something that happens every day. If the IRS or state tax authorities start down the road of enforcement this might be good to know.