obama gun controlAs the below document reveals, the United Nations Office for Disarmament Affairs (UNODA) has convened a Disarmament Commission- tasked with solving the dilemma standing in the way of the global implementation of Agenda 21- namely the estimated 500 million weapons currently in the hands of American civilians.

We have identified several problems that must be addressed.  They are:
1. Classification of military grade weapons to be made illegal for possession
2. Creation of programs to provide reasonable compensation for voluntary surrender of said arms
3. Codification of laws to begin the restricting and strict licensing of concealable firearms4. Codification of laws to begin the restricting and strict licensing of hunting grade firearms
5. Codification of laws to restrict the sale of, and possession ammunition and components to manufacture ammunition
6. Finally, codification of laws to completely make any and all firearms illegal to own, possess, or use outside of military and law enforcement usage
7. Creation of a United Nations Police Taskforce with the specific mission of assisting member nations with the collection of weaponry from civilian hands

The UNODA’s full release is below:


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Surely such a blatant 7 point plan to disarm Americans must be a hoax, right?

Not surprisingly, a U.N. spokesman according to this PolitiFact article, claimed the document is a fake:

“I checked the document number on our internal document system, and the reply I got back now was simply, ‘There is no document matching your request,’ said Farhan Haq, associate spokesperson for the Secretary-General. “The document number (A/CN.11/L.72) doesn’t conform to our standard system, in any case.”

In addition, Haq said, “there is no such body as a ‘Civilian Weapons Confiscation Study Group.’ Nor does the United Nations involve itself in confiscating weapons from member states.”

Finally, Haq said, “the use of blue ink, some of the type font and the scanner icon in the bottom right-hand corner are not found in real U.N. documents. So, in several different ways, this document is fake.”

As Freedom Outpost has discovered, the barcode number used in the document is a match with barcodes used by the UNODA:

This document is numbered (A/CN.10/L.70). If you scroll down to the bottom of this document you can see the bar code numbers as well. Which amazingly, surprise the bar-codes match the (A/CN.11/L.72) “Disarmament Commission – Civilian Weapons Confiscation Study Group” bar code. Bar Code number is “12-53542 (E) 091012″. Thus showing that these numbers are used, and also coincide with UNODA and United Nations actual documents. Other examples of comparable numbers can be found here.

However, Snopes.com claims that not only does the document match barcode numbers used by the UNODA, it is an exact match to an older UNODA document, and is thus forged:

The bardoce 12-53542 (E) 091012 is a clear match between the 2 documents, implying that either (A) the document is a forgery, or (B) the UNODA quickly published an innocious document with the same barcode # as the disarmament document after being publicly caught with their pants down to enable an official denial regarding the document’s validity. 

(B) seems plausible, particularly given the discrepancy between the statements of the official UN spokesperson Haq who claimed that “I checked the document number on our internal document system, and the reply I got back now was simply, ‘There is no document matching your request.” and Snopes’ publishing of an UNODA document that does indeed bear the barcode number 12-53542 (E) 091012.   Perhaps the UN should get their story straight- can the document number in question not be found in their database, or does it belong to another document?

While Snopes and MSM sites have quickly rushed to insist the document is a fake, we will hold out on full judgement for now, particularly as the UNODA’s 7 point plan matches the agenda and angle pushed after the Sandy Hook tragedy as semi-automatic weapons such as the Ak-47 have been vilified by the MSM over the past 8-12 months.   We invite our readers to examine the evidence and come to their own conclusions.


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  1. With all the talk of disarmament of the US, why has it not been done already? Why does Obama waste time with this detail and that detail? Because ‘they’ want the US fully armed when the ship goes down despite all the reports of clamping down on guns; that way, Americans take care of Americans, if you know what I mean, and it’s done without any effort by TPTB, and after a while, the problem to be dealt with is a whole lot smaller, and they don’t care which sheeple get killed during that stage. With all the talk of disarmament, gun and ammo sales went through the roof, which is quite consistent with this too.

    When it’s all over, THEN the US will be disarmed based on UN regulations, which is what all the hot air is about. But that is 4-5 years away, IMHO.

    • It has virtually been done already making ammo purchase almost impossible. A gun is a hammer without it. The UN has always been the one to watch for, since they can step in with all foreign forces who wouldn’t be breaking their oath to the constitution. The UN troops will be ushered in with the blessing of the US government/military, since they are behind the usage of the UN for these purposes from the beginnings of the UN. One world government is the goal and the agenda has been shifted to full steam ahead. 5 years? I see it being sooner myself but we’ll see, that’s for sure!
      Just scroll down this page and see the availability of .38 special…… and any ammo caliber page you choose looks the same. Cheap target ammo only usually……..

    • Silverslicker. There is plenty of ammo available now, but it’s mostly the military calibers because most producers have focused on that, and are cancelling production of less used calibers. You can see the chart at http://www.gunbuddy.com/ on the right(in green) which shows the current low prices for each caliber in stock.
      We are getting closer to pre panic prices on some ammo, while others are still a bit high. It seems the ak variants such as 7.62×39/5.45×39 are calming down pretty quick. I was able to get some 7.62×39 for 22 cents shipped the other day.
      22lr was 4 cents, is now 8 cents.
      5.45×39 was 11 cents and now 16 cents.
      7.62x54r was 18 cents, now 20 cents.
      7.62×39 was 18 cents and now 25 cents.
      9mm was 18 cents and now 29 cents.
      Those are all I can remember off the top of my head, but the prices are getting very fair right now, and I would purchase at these prices instead of waiting. If something pops off in the middle east I could see russian ammo drying up, and it’s possible the american factories will be prioritizing government orders over civilians which will make the price jump once again.

    • Sorry, SS, but Able Ammo is one of the online  GOUGERS, 
      we have tons of ammo on the shelf @ LGS’s around here! 
      BUY LOCAL, save Fiat! LOL
      Nothing online is beating the local prices. Ask @AGXIIK
      His local is near normal now too. Several locales are pretty much normal now…  😀

  2. Please don’t underestimate Obozo and his minions who are hell-bent on giving the UN charge over the people (can’t say citizens anymore) of the United States.  The UN wants Sharia Law, they want gun control, and they want to carry the big stick (which most often is crammed up their own asses) to dictate to us dummies.
    Anyone wearing one of those puke colored UN helmets who saunters up my walkway will require immediate attention…so as to keep the vulture population in check!

  3. Its all a big plan, we are all going to be tagged with dog collars and sent down the mines with pick axes to mine for rich stuff for the powers that be. The powers that be are really lizards who dress up in human skin. They need the rich stuff to pay off the inter galactic pay day loan sharks, else they will blow up the sun. How do I know all this? I am the lizard king.
    Loosing the plot if you believe this stuff, why on earth do they need to disarm the Americans? If they wanted to control you they just need to make you work for peanuts and not realize that you are….oh wait….
    You lot need to read The prince Machiavelli.

    When all you got is a hammer, every problem Iooks like a nail.

  4. How can a bunch of unelected crony kleptocratic rich people influence ANY country’s laws? Who nominated them for  their position at the criminal UN? Stricter laws for gun crimes is what is necessary. Not removal or restriction of guns!
    Only thing that needs to be eliminated (impeached) is the UN…. oh and the FED…. oh yeah and the current president and most state congressman and senators.
    They can’t start a war in North America yet because there is basically a gun behind every door. BOO-YA! I say come and getem’, you bunch of AS*WIPES!

  5. I hear tell that by weaponry Wisconsin has the third largest army in the entire world. Maybe they will go there first. Of course if they really want combat, come on down to Texas…we be ready!

    • Afghans don’t have as many weapons as your real army, they seem to be making a mess of you.  Saying that they messed up the British and Russians before that. Why?
      Lesson of this story, lesson learned from millennia, at the hot gates, numbers mean nothing, it’s about tactics and terrain.
      Is Texas really flat? 🙂 

  6. 100,000,000 American with about 250,000,000 firearms.  Maybe the UN should rethink this.  If they plan to bring gun confiscation to this nation they will find what the Japanese surmised—a rifle behind every blade of grass.  BTW, if each weapon has even a modest 200 rounds of ammunition that is 50,000,000,000 rounds of live ammo.  Can you spell wall of lead. These limpdick cheese weasels at the DHS with their 1,600,000,000 rounds of 40. Puleeeeze. I’ll bring more than that.
    If 10% of the US population decides it’s time for a second  revolution, there are not enough armies in the world to bring it to us.  Most veterans have already been treated badly by this motherf***** in the WH, his minions and cronies are worth nothing more than skeet.  They always overeach in gun grabs.  It’s been tried for decades and each time the people of this country redoubled their commitment to the Second Amendment.
    Anyone with an active brain stem knows that the Second Amendment protects the First and all others.  That is why it’s the second one.  The first gives us the GOD GIVEN RIGHT to say Molon Labe, Nuts and STFU KLUMMAC. 
    When this paperhanging son of a bitch tries his extra constitutional overreach and finds out his hand is in the lion’s mouth, he will find out that he, his Marxist straphanders, his fambly in Kenya, Indonesia and the liberal POS jackasses in the universities, are out matched, outgunned and out thought by the smartest people in the group, the American gun owners. We won’t back down.

    IMO We are the bright line in the sand that prevents a full roll out of Agenda 21 and the other plans the elites and autocrats have for us.
    Pretty simple.
    Our founding fathers knew this, our father knew this and we knew this.  Ammo up, armor up, gird up your loins.  What we have is worth defending.  Period.
    Anyone outside this field of war—may God have mercy on your souls. I sure as hell won’t.

  7. All other factors aside, the document, real or fake, speaks of ‘Codification’, which is specific to municipal Civil Law … or procedural law upon officers, agents, contractors and unique members under the jurisdiction of such distinct municipality. Consequently, individuals holding themselves outside such jurisdiction are unaffected.

    It’s pertinent to clarify then, that in 1871, ‘The United States’ chartered itself as a unique, formal government over the municipality of the District of Columbia. Up to that point, while merely called a government, it existed legally and technically in the capacity of a Trust Administration to the State Governments. Also, up to that occasion, the courts had explained that technically and practically no such thing as a misnomered ‘Citizen of the United States’ was logically possible, only Citizens of the independent States called ‘Americans’ through the general polity of their States’ Federation.

    So, allowing the Public Record to reflect one’s municipal membership to be defined as ‘citizen of the United States’, subjects one to the Municipal Code (Civil Law) of the District of Columbia. But, to correct that record, by disassociation from special benefits only available to such citizens , and entering one’s choice of Lawful Permanent Domicil and controlling Citizenship under one’s original, ordinary State jurisdiction, reverts one’s affairs (with attendant Reserved Naural Rights, Immunities and Common Law Obligations) to the condition and standing where no such Code is operable nor enforcible in a properly convened Common Law Judicial Court of Record, Jury Verdict of which is unimpeachable.

  8. PS  If you find ammo hard to find, you’ll need to look harder and pick it up where you can find it.  If you’re serious you need spend some coin and dig it out at the retailers, gun shows and private parties. I am not bragging when I tell you that I acquired over 2,000 22 LR, 3,600 7.62×39, 2100 223 and  a boat load of 9mm in the last 2 months  through on line and gun shows.  Why?  Because the people who sell ammo have it available again. It is worth the search and http://www.gunbot.net  may be a good strart. I’ve waited 6 months for the ammo to be freed up and set aside some FIAT to convert to ammo, just like stacking silver.  It is a prepper good and worth the accumulation.
    I am not saying you need 10-20,000 rounds of mixed calibers.  1,000 or so each for your favorite calibers. Maybe 200 for that shotgun. Extras for that vital practice. 10 magazines for each magazine fed weapon is a wise choice. Mags break and their price is down about 50%
    Mary B, EdB and RGR, I have a sense of where you are with this. Ranger I’m thinking ditto for you

      And guns are very available at reasonable prices.  It takes a bit of due diligence but if you are serious then go for it.

    • I was about to say, DITTO to AGXIIK!
      DYODD and it will Pay Off! 
      I have been stacking Lead and Brass, BRASS & LEAD since very late 2012. 
      Doing quite well! Pretty close to AG’s list above! Better in some calibers! 

    • Right on, Brother AG.  Ammo is something that all free men and women should gather unto themselves and hold onto.  Use it for target practice, hunting, training, self-defense, or just plain old plinking.  But, like silver, continue to build your stash.  Ammo tends to hold its value.  I buy all I can when I can find it at good prices.  Walmart is one of my favorite haunts for finding ammo at good prices.  I have scored both 7.62×39 and .22 ammo there and it was cheaper than anyone else has it locally.  Paying $5.17 plus tax for a box of 20 AK rounds is a no-brainer as far as feeding an ammo stash.  This is CHEAP.  Getting .22 ammo for $3.47 a box of 50 is also cheap these days and a good .22 rifle is an excellent survival weapon and small game getter.  The AK and AR class rifles are fine defensive weapons and anyone who can own one probably should.  I have 4 of the 30-round mags for my AK and about 1200 rounds of ammo.  I like the black polymer ProMag magazines and will be getting more of them.  They work well and are durable.  My Mossy 590 is my backup weapon and I have about 600 rounds of 00 and #4 buck rounds plus a few slugs for it.  Few things say “back the f*** off!” quite like a good 12-ga. shotgun.  It is very versatile and if I could only have a single weapon, it would be a decent 12-ga. pump shotgun, such as a Mossberg or a Remington.  Using bird-shot, buck-shot, or slugs it can take any game in North America and is also a fine defensive weapon.  It has an intimidation factor for anyone looking down its .73-cal muzzle, such that it might not even need to be used in a confrontation.  If it must be used in defense of life and limb, it will be effective when handled properly.

    • What’s with all the AK talk.  Buy American.  I love my AR’s.  American made right here in Phoenix: POF, ASA, Hogan.  Top of the line quality from American workers.  

    • YUP! ARs RULE! 
      Ammo is coming down, back near Normal! 
      But I’d like an AK as well, it’s even cheaper for ammo. 
      But I am very well armed  😉 
      great B.O.B. as well! (thanks AGXIIK!) 
      2 gun-nuts that reload, both excellent marksmen, 
      Dad (Army Vet, Rifle Expert)
      Son (USMC, Ooh-RAH! TOP SHOOTER, in Platoon)
      Wifey (Rifle Expert, Basic Training, Army)
      Lil ole ME, (Avid Collector) {lol}
      I really need to sight these things in! 
      AR is really sweeet! Built by an Army Ranger, really kicks @$$! 

    • I agree, Chief.  The local LEOs are well aware of the US Constitution and their oath to it.  They also live in the local community, so are responsible and attuned to it.  It is very likely that in a SHTF situation, the local police and the local population will be on the same side of this, no matter what the elites in DC and NY have to say about it.

  9. Hi Pat  I’ve always enjoyed your legal eloquence and understanding.   I may actually understand most of it, by osmisis and the gut, if from no other standpoint than the ‘them vs us’ ‘states vs the feds’  Kind of like the Whiskey rebellion and other states rights matters.
      May I simply the net results should push come to shove along the lines of?
    “GET A ROPE”  

    • Funny you should mention the ‘Whiskey Rebellion’, because BEFORE Washington could lawfully enforce it, he had to secure operative jurisdiction in State territory for federal agents to conduct their activities under. So, he convened an emergency session of the … Congressional Senate … seeking authorization to create ‘district’ jurisdictions overlaying the States. On March 4th, 1791, those ‘districts’ were instituted (with, I believe, Vermont excluding itself), which today are the 12 federal ‘districts’ spread over the entirety of the States, Territories and Possessions. It’s critical to realize these ‘districts’ are coincident TO, but not WITH the State jurisdictions as originally asserted by their respective Peoples.

      Also, if you dig into original State Constitutions, offices of governance were restricted to Citizens of their respective States. Then, after 1871, alterations began qualifying ‘voting’ franchise and public office available only to a ‘citizen of the United States’. Obviously, the legislatures were sureptitiously shifting their activities from under their original to federal ‘district’ jurisdiction. The original ‘real McCoy’ is preserved laying fallow, or these governments would lose ALL genuine derivative legitimacy, but acting as corporate ‘local government’ municipalities under the District of Columbia, they sidestep the constraints of their Constitutions because under exclusive federal jurisdiction, Art. IV, Sec. 3, cl. 2, provides complete release from ANY Constitutional limitation, making ‘Claims of the United States’ incontestable.

      Folks wonder how blatantly ‘unconstitutional’ statutes (Civil Law Code) hold up in the Courts (Magesterial Procedures)? Well, there’s the answer. They’re NOT unconstitutional  … under exclusive federal jurisdiction!

      PS: Ed, good old tar and feathers holds a special place in my heart as well.

  10. It is not possible to enslave an armed population. In fact, it is not possible to rob an armed man. The fact that they are doing an end run by making ammunition hard to get is an indication that the scum don’t think they can disarm us and are going for plan B.

    • Power can be defined by the actions one does that another man refuses to do. Civilization is all about compromising personal power and trading it in for well being. People rob civilized people because they have traded their civility in for power, but this has an effect on well being. You must ask yourself how far will you go to reclaim your power, and to how much civility your going to hand back to the state? 
      If you join the army, your trading in all your civility for power under a contract that states that your actions are not your own, effectively giving your civility and power to the state. The most compromised person on earth is a soldier.
      So it is possible to enslave an armed populace, its called the social contract of inclusion, we enslave and compromise ourselves everyday we spend time in society, purchasing ammo from society, buying guns, is all done whilst agreeing to rules that you don’t see.
      Sad part about all this, there is no way out of this contract, you were a slave when you were born. Freedom is an illusion and high power doesn’t last for too long, your well being will deteriorate. You ever notice how heads of state enter power all young and eager, and leave old and haggered, most got worry lines, grey hair and a sullen complexion. 🙂 

    • WaitingForSilver  … “Sad part about all this, there is no way out of this contract, you were a slave when you were born.”

      That’s ‘patriot movement birth certificate mumbo jumbo’ of which I can assure you, since I’ve been hip-deep in the arena for almost two decades. A contract that’s initiated by pre-meditated or grossly negligent fraud, by obfuscation or blatant omission of Material Facts, is vitiated ipso facto … null, void and unenforcable At Law.

      While I confirm the enslaving nature of instruments like Marriage Certificates, Birth Certificates, Socialist Security, Driving Licenses … and on and on … they’re ALL ‘agreed to’ without ANYONE’S disclosure or admission of their fundamental alterations to Standings At Law (civil status of PERSON) and negation of Reserved Natural Rights that such ‘agreements’ affect … even when point-blank asked!

      You learn the Law (the Law that Frederic Bastiat wrote of) and how to inculcate its Process in … your … court, how to prosecute it without being tricked into Civil Law traverse, and those instruments can be PROVED inapplicable owing to their fraudulent origins.

      Resignation to slavery is a TERRIBLE low to sink to … MUCH WORSE to pass into the minds of your fellows. You ALWAYS have Power to free yourself.

    • @PatFields,
      You can not break the social contract. Nothing at all to do with patriot mumbo jumbo, this stuff has been philosophically done and done. Has nothing at all to do with torte law, its about the social contract, the one you enter in agreement everyday of your life when you act your role out in society, to pre defined norms. You could live in any country you want, blend in, learn the language, but this unwritten truism wills out. Your a slave, a happy slave, freedom is an illusion. Not one bullet in your gun can break you free of this. Unless your going to go a bit mental, and end up living in a cave, like some mad hermit, self sufficient, depending on no one. But this would cause you harm and compromise your present and future well being.
      You confuse me with being American Pat. 

    • WaitingForSilver  … “You can not break the social contract.”

      You’re correct that I forgot about your nationality. It’s hard to keep track sometimes. As an Englishman, you’re a Subject of the Crown, so it’s true that YOUR social contract circumscribes Liberty beyond Common Law (since Common Law is the prerogative of the Sovereign to prosecute). But America fought for release from that, to secure Private Property and Individual Determinism. All the Titles and Powers of the Royals and Parliament devolved directly into The People, so our condition is truly an entirely separate one from yours. We are the Sovereign in our several and individual capacities, so it’s within OUR Power to weild Common Law’s superior jurisprudence in defense of Private Natural Rights.

      Yes, our Social Contract is unique, in that Freedom from willful government dictate is among our Reserved Rights, set into text AND ‘Spirit’. Anything contrary to Original Intent, is defiance of that Spirit and CAN be sued out. Thus, despite your contention, Freedom for US … IS … as much a reality as we wish to preserve, ONLY limited by reasonable civility.

    • PatFields, I am not English, I am Welsh (Cymric), like a fair few of the individuals who signed your declaration of independence.
      Independence from the crown is not freedom. Yes its freedom  from taxation by Your people to the crown, but apart from that America is nothing special. The state can relieve you of your personal effects as effectively as any state in the known world through legal action. What I am referring to is that your integration into any society means you must succumb to rules of engagement, rules you adhere to or go to jail. Owning a gun is one thing, using it in  a way that the state sees as improper will land you in jail. Bullets don’t equal freedom. Bullets give you a form of democracy in a basic sense but in a sophisticated society it does not. You don’t get to rule people by killing people or threaten to kill people any more. Power has become more sophisticated as society has become more integrated. The social contract has gotten bigger. Blame cheap labour and a world wide production line where it takes a nation of billions to manufacturer a single item.
      If you want to really know about freedom, you need to get your head out of torte and into ethics. 
      If you really think your free, go and see how far you get walking up a street in your neighbourhood in the nip, naked. No doubt if the street is populated you will get hauled off to jail for exposure. Let’s see your gun get you out of that pickle. 🙂 

    • WaitingForSilver  … “If you really think your free, go and see how far you get walking up a street in your neighbourhood in the nip, naked”

      Yeah, yeah … we have extreme Doctrinaire Libertarians here too. If ‘Liberty’ is to deny decent respect for the morals of one’s neighbors, then all notion of Society itself descends back into gross animal existence. You’d have one believe in some ‘Philosophical Truth’ that an individual’s incapacity of jumping to the moon constitutes negation of ‘True Liberty’, ipso facto. With that sort of conceptualization of ‘Liberty’ then, it’s no wonder at all you fear and decry the American private Right to Bear Arms. There’s a BIG difference between responsible exercise of Liberty and … well let’s just say … irresponsible, to remain in civil discourse.

    • One could argue using your personal belief system that the ability to kill without effort is equally distasteful. Why would I fear an American with a gun? To bear arms is the right for all, but you can’t pick and choose your stance on morality through misguided Victorian ideas of what makes a gentleman of society?
      What gives you the right to decide morality? Especially when there is no reason to fear the naked form apart from being prudish. We are all born naked and yet you fear your mortal form, interesting.
      You hide behind you doctrines and torte, use your guns in fear of naked Welshmen, as long as you don’t do harm I don’t care. But I will point out the right to pursue happiness for ALL, not just PatFields 🙂 
      Question is, could you kill another human, if you can, what’s the rules, who decides? Would you use a gun inside the law or outside, if outside, then why? Surely this would break the right to pursue happiness? I mean if you unlawful kill someone, they won’t be happy any more. Do guns generally make the populace of your kinship unhappy?
      Get some balls, put it to the vote. Let’s see what happens? You do believe in the democracy of your country? 🙂 
      And before you decide to go all personal on my beautiful naked arse, then I will add as a libertine, I am pro everything, including guns. 

  11. Mary B 
    I have come to see you as one of the most resourceful people on this site or in the organic world. 
    If half of the warriors are gone that leaves the other half.  But the first half will have given all and I expect exacted a fearful toll on the invaders and internal army.   We owe it to them to pay it forward to secure this country.
     Any country that has given up its arms cannot be thought of as anything more than slaves to an overreaching government.  They are slaves that do not know they are slaves until the government jerks the knot tighter around their neck.
    Then it becomes obvious
    IMO there are 3 reasons to buy weaponry and ammunition
    I bet you can guess the third one
    I belong to the third  category, mostly.  So do most of my friends.  #2 is a good use too.
    I sold some phyzz at a loss to have the cash to buy ammo. Painful as it was to sell some gold at a loss, I knew it was the best use of phyzz—-trading it for ammo.  I guess you could say I turned gold into lead.  Reversing of the  philosopher’s stone. 

    • I like that, SD… unless you are like a few (well under 50%) of my union buddies. 
      They keep voting for demonICrats because they say they will never be able to take our guns! 
      But I agree, MOLON LABE! 

  12. @AGXIIX – I enjoy your inspiring posts, and thank you.  You remind me of the one warrior of the quote from Heraclitus, for we are not all of us warriors, though we may have our hearts in the right place.  Here it is:
    “Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn’t even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”

  13. Its all the British’s fault. They forced you into this, its all just one big plan for you guys to kill yourselves off, and once you have, we will come in , enslave the survivors and get you working for the lizard people, to pay off the debt to the inter galactic pay day loan sharks. Bwah ha ha ha!
    Why do you think you ALL have weapons and an endless supply of alcohol? You think this is freedom or just a bigger scheme? Bwah ha ha! 
    Freedom is an illusion.

  14. Waiting for silver  I knew it was the fault of those randy royals. They’re always buggering  things up.
     Freedom is an illusion.  Sometimes
    Illuions are  freedom   Sometimes
    And something some of us wake up to facts. 
    Bourbon and Bayonets is not a terribly unreasonable combination. 
    At least one can find themselves fighting for the illusion of freedom via the illusion that fighting is freedom.  Or something to that effect.

  15. Ugly Dog No worries on the AK AR debate.  I have 3 M4’s, an AK and an SKS. Equal opportunity firearms.  If the UN sends Somali, Red Guard, North Korean or Eastern Block troops we have training, ammo and firearms from those when they turn tail and run or stay to fight.  Besides which we have least a 5 to 1 ratio on the AR AK score  It’s all about having a deep bench 

    I.O. Inc and American Arms make the AK 47 under license right here in the good old USA. From what I read they are top quality and made to exacting American standards with heavy duty hardened parts.  The reviews indicate these are decent alternatives to the black rifle 
    Price is just over $1,000
      I like a deep bench.  With a Mauser K98k and an M1A carbine, both from WW II era, that adds to the firearms.

  16. PS The folks who don’t like the gummint having drones have good countermeasures and are building some decent drones of their own.  Maybe better than the DHS and others can field.  We practically invented assymetrical warfare.  The move  The Patriot shows that element of the American fighter
    Adaptive we are

    • UglyDog  … “Codification” is UN speak for loss of sovereignty”

      True … BUT … the operative term is … Sovereignty.

      We’re brainwashed to presume that that Power lay in the aparatus of Government … WRONG! In America, as NOWHERE ELSE on the planet Earth, it is in The People, both severally and individually, by obvious degrees of enforcability. That’s why we put up with having ANY government at all … to lend enforcabi8lity to our personal Rights of Sovereignty when we need to act as individuals.

      The ‘government of the United States’ is … IN FACT … the government of the District of Columbia. It’s THAT ‘government’ the UN is negotiating with. THAT ‘government’ is a municipal authority which has extended its jurisdiction … BY YOUR AQUIESSENCE TO IT. In other words, once you ALLOW its jurisdiction over you, by various sorts of ‘agreements’ and ‘contracts’, YOU let its ‘claws’ sink in by FORGETTING that we are the genuine Kings and Queens of this Land. Be a good King, use YOUR Sovereign Power for the true benefit and prosperity of YOUR Land.

    • PatFields, whatever your drinking, make mine a double 🙂 
      A king has a kingdom. Define how an American citizen can be a king? Great orations, lots of sentiment, but no meaning in those words. 
      Property does not equal freedom. And your contract for land is meaningless, if the state wants your land, they take it. Whether you like it or not. Your powerless. Go with it. Power is an illusion. 
      Your born naked, you will leave naked. 

    • WaitingForSilver

      It’s an uniquely American concept you foreign folks simply can’t fathom. Hell, plenty Americans THEMSELVES don’t even ‘get it’.

      “…at the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people; and they are truly the sovereigns of the country, but they are sovereigns without subjects…with none to govern but themselves; the citizens of America are equal as fellow citizens, and as joint tenants in the sovereignty.” –Chisholm v. Georgia (US) 2 Dall 419, 454, 1 L Ed 440, 455 @DALL 1793 pp471-472

      “The people of this State, as the successors of its former sovereign, are entitled to all the rights which formerly belonged to the King by his prerogative. Through the medium of their Legislature they may exercise all the powers which previous to the Revolution could have been exercised either by the King alone, or by him in conjunction with his Parliament; subject only to those restrictions which have been imposed by the Constitution of this State or of the U.S.” –Lansing v. Smith, 21 D. 89., 4 Wendel 9 (1829) (New York)

    • PatFields…I love being admonished by you.  It’s like having a personal encounter with Patrick Henry.  Tell me you don’t have a drivers license and I will be impressed.  As a sovereign citizen driving your own car for your own needs no “license” is required because there is no commerce to regulate.

    • So what PatField, you disposed one despot and installed others of equal or worse measure. If you honestly believe in ‘we the people’ then carry on drinking. If you honestly believe that in America all men are born equally, yeah right, tell that to Donald ‘what’s that on your head’ Trump. You have created your own barons, lords and ladies, untouchables. How? Same as any other country, inheritance.
      But as a country your very young, you need to make your own mistakes. We killed our monarch, installed a despot, Oliver Cromwell, realized that was stupid, then reinstated a monarch with lesser powers. 
      And now we are trying to duplicates Americas idea of democracy, two party system, very little to differentiate and only rich people can be elected as its an ‘old boys club’. 
      Yeah, all men created equally. Give me a break.

    • UglyDog  … “Tell me you don’t have a drivers license”

      Well then, you’ll be pleased to learn that I do NOT accede to any sort of ‘license’ to travel. ‘License’ is only required to ‘drive’ a ‘registered vehicle’ whose ‘operator’ is ‘trafficing’ in goods upon the public’s ways.

      The one time I was called into government’s (Administrative) ‘Traffic’ court, I stood ‘Specially’ to challenge its personam and subject matter jurisdiction over my private affairs, whereupon I was quickly hustled out the back door while the Magistrate put on a loud performance for the audience about spending time in jail for daring to challenge his authority.

      The trick is to obtain an automibile that isn’t already ‘registered’ as commercial (a register is a tax roll). For a fellow of humble means, such as myself, I tried to obtain an officially ‘junked’ automobile, since the process removes it from that roll. Unfortunately, the owner of the junkyard gave me a ‘look of knowing’ about what I was trying to accomplish and refused my inquiry. The only other way I know to do it is to buy new outright using a Common Law Bill of Sale, settled in Lawful Money (gold or silver coin), secure the Title Documemt and Certificate of Origin and then refuse to register it. Voila … no jurisdiction, no obligation to be licensed!

    • @patfields …No drivers license!  I knew it.  I am now officially in awe and definitely ‘not worthy’.  And how do you get the blue font on your posts, too?  I can’t figure that out either.  I’m a mere rookie patriot, not fit to shine the buckles on your shoes.

    • Okay, this is getting too silly, knock it off! There are lots of folks across the country (some up in Canada too) who refuse to be licensed. They don’t often go as far as I do in researching all the background behind the details (I have law books into the late 1800s covering ‘Road Laws”), but the movement for free travel is quite old now.

      As for blue font … I can only guess the Pentagon spooks have me ‘tagged’ so my e-mail is coded for easy visual filtering. God only knows. What I see is plain old black and white.

  17. Let’s step back to walking around town naked with a firearm.  In San Fran there seems to be a code, or lack of code, that allows naked people to walk around in the nude.  They are even allowed to enter restaurants and order food.  As far as wearing a firearm open carry, maybe not so much but I would like to see where they carried it.  Neck chain, fanny pack, web belt with heavy 45 and 2 full magazines. Now that would chafe.
    But does that make SF any closer to what is being discussed here of just the moral leper-dom of Sodom by the Bay.
      By George, I think I answered my own question.
    Debate on Pat.  I am enjoying the show.  too bad Hedgey took a leave of absense.

    • Poor hedgey. Got outta the kitchen, too much heat I’m afraid… 
      [email protected]  :+) 

  18. AGXIIK… “I am enjoying the show. too bad Hedgey took a leave of absense.”

    Oh man. It took a lot of self restraint to manage ignoring that fellow. I KNEW his underlying ’cause’ in posting was most likely a propaganda campaign for Nazi ‘Zionism’ whodo, but I was determined to play things out until he ‘drew first’ before I laid out my evidence on exactly HOW I anticipated it. That’s why I hammered him to explain his fundamental concepts on ‘proper’ economic structure. Sadly, he wouldn’t ‘play’. He pulled his horse off the rail and dropped his lance.

  19. Waiting for silver I think your comment was directed to me.  My comment was tongue in cheek as you might know of how I think. 
    Naked folks abound. Burning man has boatloads of nekkid folks running around the black rock desert. Grey sand blowing up sensitive areas. Hmmm, not my thing.
    Just 10 miles down the road is clothing optional.  No worries there. 
    Some people get a bit upset when viewing a person  who walks around nude. There are many reasons for that. Some people are naturally shy.  Others are a bit upset because the kids are shocked.
    Others are just plain old offended. A bit Victorian old school. My mother was a naked fanatic so there you go and she looked great without clothes. Made the men crazy. LOL
    Me?  I think some people look great in naked   Others may should wear clothes because they may not look so great.  I am probably in the latter category  But staying warm or protection against harsh solar rays on my northern European skin is a good thing too

    As for guns.  Here is the bottom line. They are the first line of defense against those who do not believe in personal property rights.
    I dont like being told what to do by anyone, but most especially by a government. It just rubs my fur the wrong way. From silly ass speeding laws that slow us to a crawl in perfectly safe roads to draconian laws that come from the overloads from someone I did not vote for and do not care for really bothers me. I can take care of myself without any officious bureaucrat telling me how I should run my life and here is the bitch. I have to pay them through taxes to direct me. Sheesh.
    I am a staunch, reflexive hard core property rights person.  My dad read from the original Magna Carta and used it his litmus test and rules of the road to determine his driving life force, his family well being, international and national works with his organizations and his beliefs that all rights are rooted in the ownership of personal private property.

    His family was a family of the land, farmers, ranchers, land developers and long term ownership of homes.  He can trace his legacy, birthright and heritage back to the 1300’s in Ireland and England. So his near genetic reflective stance on private property that drives all other rights is based on a family that has 800 years of waging a quiet and sometimes active war against those who would take these property rights from his family. 
    The family crest is a mailed arm and fist holding a Claymore sword.That’s what his ancient family used to protect his home and country.  His life work was based on property rights going back 65 years. He and his group fought the UN back in 1975-756 time period when Agenda 21 started down the road of attempts to take private property and move it into the government hands. His group stopped this action for nearly 10 years.
    My father in law was also a warrior, like my father, a pilot in WWII and later as a colonel in the USAF. Both were very lucky to have survived so they knew the price that sometimes must be paid to secure property rights. He was a capitalist, libertarian and staunch defender of private property rights as was his family going back hundreds of years.
    My dad fought against the instrusions of land grabs and other attemps to strip away these Magna Carta rights. He fought against the Canadian government and even the Queen when needed.  His won his battles for decades but those battles continue today. I carry on that fight whereever I can in my small way including posts on this site. To do less would be an insult to his memory and sacrifices over his entire lifetime.
    Both men were well armed against the petty ante minor intrusions against thieves and cut purses where needed  But they both knew, US and Canadian/English, that private property must be aggressively defended against intrusive overreaching governments who, to a man or woman, always want MOAR.  
    We fight this on a generational basis. I do not know enough about the past situations to state with certainty if this fight is going to be harder than the last major wars, but I do know that it is OUR FIGHT. It could easily be fought in the streets rather than the government houses. This happening on a global basis right now.
    We see terrible strife in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and several other countries were millions of people are taking to the streets, sometimes violently, to secure their personal rights, abilities to feed their families and make a live as free from strife as possible  No one wants death and destruction at their doorstep. Like the Mafia says, “It’s bad for business”  
    We presently live our largely safe lives without too much want or worry but it could to strong measures that stop our own governments from take what our fathers, grandfathers, brothers and others. This has been a continual battle since Moog decided that Og’s wife and cave should be his. Clubs, swords, archers, flintlocks, poison gas, cannon, teeth, fists and other weapons are the means to challenge those who would take what we fought for, earned by sweat and blood and will defend vigorously and even to the cost of our lives. Some things are worth fighting for.
    But we see this constant instrusion and with it, the greater chance of seeing it visit our shores. We are not immune as we have seen from terrorist attacks in our cities.
    My belief is that a government that fears the people is a government that is the least instrusive.
    When the people fear their government, as we see happening in this country today, we must be ever vigilant against the cut and thrust of this overreaching fascist enterprise that occupyies Washington DC today. That’s the best I can come up with on short notice.

    My best regards to you, a Welsh friend, from the naked poster

    • AGXIIK
      No my friend, I was not directing nakedness your way,  I was trying to explain to Pat the concept of Freedom, and how free does he really believe he is in a world where he deems nakedness as bad, and gun ownership as good.
      Two conversations that crossed the same material.
      Thanks for your reply though, most interesting.
      Well here is a take on someone who lives in a country where gun ownership has been brainwashed into people as being wrong. I completely understand the use of guns in a democracy. Democracy can be easily taken away when only the people in power are allowed to have guns. But you try explaining that in a country where gun ownership is “scary”. Me, I think a gun is a great leveler. In the UK we as you know, if you have read some history about this weird place, have had more than our share of civil wars, poverty wars, class wars. But unlike America, we still haven’t learned of our mistakes. We as a people have been transformed into cattle for the rich to feast upon. Our government is a joke, made up of individuals with self serving interests that have no bearing on the population, only their bankster friends. But because we all see our selves as living comfortably, not in abject poverty, peoples views are swayed to, “everything is okay”. Its not really, I think the phase a happy slave is a good slave, states it all. An ignorant Slave is even better.
      As a Welshman, I can trace my lineage back far further, back in time before the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Normans settle these lands (Collectively called English by Rev Bede, so that he could get the Roman Church to recognize himself), and took them from us by force. As for coats of arms, they are meaningless, brought in by Queen Victoria (a German) and Albert (another German), for a charity called “Knights of the Garter”. Anyone can have a coat of arms, but it only means something if it is hanging up at Windsor Castle, as a member of the knights of the Garter. I have two family coats of arms, both are made up, not hanging at Windsor Castle 🙂
      As for the Magna Carta, what a joke. A document written up but never followed through on. It was forgotten about, and yet as a country we hold it as high regard, but no one actually understands what it represents or what it means, especially when we still have a token monarchy that theoretically through her council still have ultimate control on the land we rest upon.
      I am glad that America has followed through and implemented Magna Carta, it is the good fight, although as time goes by with various amendments, I do hope it stands the test of time. To an outsider, I see a population, very much like ours in this country, being dumbed down by the media, education system, and robbed by “the haves”. This is an old war, its been going on since the Normans invaded these lands. The best model I have seen of Democracy in history that has been implemented, was installed by the Saxons. But alas the Normans came and enslaved them.
      History bears down on us all. We must remember, we must learn. We must never forget the lessons, but with some many people who choose the easy life, how can you alter the Status Quo, legitimately, through lawful action?

  20. Going to edge the grass and walk the dog, while I can.  Glad to make the contribution, Doc.  What banter we have on this thread.  Oh, yes, I will raise a glass to all the SD brethren.  Godspeed to all…

  21. Waiting for Silver  regards to you on your note back to me.  We are in the process of shredding the Constitution and replacing it with some sort of Nazi screed, probably courtesy of the Nazis who came over to the US after the war.  They had children and those SOBs are now embedded in  our goverment. 
    I grew up with an educational system that was completely UK centric.  We scarely taked about the colonies, a subject that caused some ire in my family and friends.  I still hear the words “Those Colonials” when friends referred to the US.  It was not a compliment.  Being bornin Canada but dual national, US and Canadian, I have enjoyed my time in the US and its freedoms but they are being eroded quickly.
    The Magna Carta is a document worth reading and in the original script you can sense the same meanings as the Constitution.  They speak to the same desire for men to live free from government constraints.  But given enough time, maybe 50-100 years, the people forget and the leaders help that process.  It’s taken us a couple of centuries  or so and the rot has set in. 
    The history of the people of that extraordinary island is worth studying as you have done.  With your ancestry I would not want to challenge you on the battlefield.  The Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Picts, Scots and others are made of stern stuff. Keeping that close at hand is a good touchstone for  helps keep the traditions and memories alive and well. 

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