algosAll h*ll appears to have broken loose in the electronic paper metals market overnight Thursday and into Friday, as numerous live metals feeds are fluctuating in price by more than $1 in silver, and several metals dealers are reportedly refusing to make any sales as they have no idea what the current price of silver is.

Per the CME the Globex is closed the 28th-31st, and per the HKMEx Hong Kong is also closed Friday the 29th, so we suspect a rogue algo was accidentally left on…


Per Kitco, Silver popped .31 to $28.77:

Friday morning’s kitco silver chart looks like this:

And gold jumped $10 and back above $1600 to $1605:



GoldMoney meanwhile showing a gap-down in silver to $27.88:



Tulving, among other retail gold and silver dealers have reportedly halted all sales.

    • man! am i glad i buy phyzz. i cant imagine the hair i would be losing right now if i had an open position…. short or long! This feels like a bank holiday in Cyprus for PMs!  haha the suspense is killing me! – broken algos? price reset? emergency shut down due to lack of physical delivery? The potential for a game changing event is hot, and as the squeeze gets tighter, the potenial gets hotter! exciting! change is in the air!

  1. You guys still think we have a chance to change the system and society?  Well, watch this video.  I can’t explain how wrong this is.  It just puts things in perspective about how messed up we are in the world and here in the US.  This is just fing wrong.

    • @Duckvision:This sort of reminds me of a story some years ago. Ted Nugent and a buch of his friends bought up a bunch of deer tags and went hunting to give fresh meat for orphanages in Mich. The sales of the hunting lic. and tags was good for the tax base and the food was good for the orphans. BUT the politicians got involved and refused to let the orphanages have the meat. CRAZY! Michigan was on the verge of bankruptcy at the time. Probably still is.

    • Where is the common sense and decency in the world?  These kinds of examples prove that we are useless eaters and we don’t matter.  Hell, they don’t even see us as humans.  The system is sick and it needs to die.  Change is coming.  Change couldn’t come faster if we continue to act and allow this kind of behavior. 

    • I guess the church didn’t think it was important for people to have food.  Maybe these individuals didn’t give 10% of their wages to the church.  Oh wait, they probably don’t have jobs.  Well, I guess they don’t matter.  IMO, the church should be held responsible.  They could have influenced the police department in a better way.  They were a no show.  This issue just wasn’t important enough for them.

    • At the very least the church could have informed the store owners that they weren’t coming. That way the store could have made other arrangements in time! Rediculous!

    • All that had to happen in that food incident was for the stinking damned bank to issue an abandonment of their propery in it to the Sheriff. The stuff was technically the property of the bank and it was the bank which ordered it to waste.

    • “Michigan was on the verge of bankruptcy at the time. Probably still is.”
      Why does that not surprise me?
      “I guess the church didn’t think it was important for people to have food.”
      It’s VERY likely that we are only getting part of the story here.  It would be interesting to hear from the church group about why they did not collect the food.  Maybe the police stopped ANYONE from getting it?
      As to the folks in the parking lot… they are the fattest “poor people” I’ve ever seen.  Used to be that when you saw a poor person, they looked poor, clearly under-weight and malnourished.  None of that in this crowd that I could see.  This does not mean that they weren’t hungry because they might well have been.  However this event was “managed”, it was not very well managed.  Maybe that is why the store is out of business?

    • ED_B you wrote: ”As to the folks in the parking lot… they are the fattest “poor people” I’ve ever seen.  Used to be that when you saw a poor person, they looked poor, clearly under-weight and malnourished.  None of that in this crowd that I could see.  This does not mean that they weren’t hungry because they might well have been”
      You are correct that historically malnourished individuals have typically looked under-weight, but malnourishment is not only defined by an insufficient caloric intake but also by an insufficient intake of proper nutients. It is quite likely that these (and other) overweight/obese individuals are not getting the proper nutrient-rich foods in their diet. THe reasons for this may be many-fold.
      It is quite possible that they have not been educated regarding proper nutrition, but it is also just as likely (probably more likely) that nutritious foods are not readily accessible (I have lived in Detroit (actually on the immediate border in a predominantly ”white” suburb ) and it was eye-opening to notice the difference in the availability of fresh/unprocessed foodstuffs as compared to the grocery store a mere 2 km away). Additionally, in the predominantly black areas it is much easier to grab a hotdog or pastry in the local 7-11 or gas station , as proper grocery stores are difficult to access.
      At its core , it is really as simple as the body sending signals to the brain to eat excessive amounts of nutrionally poor foodstuffs in order that its requirements for micronutrients and vitamins  be met.
      And yes , these individuals probably are walking around feeling hungry, because the foods that they are consuming are not causing satiety or fullness. THey are causing a rapid rise in blood sugar which results in an exaggerated release of insulin from the pancreas, which then causes their blood sugar to plummet, and leads to hunger, mood swings, headaches , and increased cortisol levels (stress hormone) which causes them to pack on the pounds.
      Unfortunately in America and in almost all countries now where Western culture has been introduced, it is less expensive to feed a family on large amounts of unfulfilling nutrient poor foodstuffs, as compared
      to nuts, fresh fruits and vegetables, whole grains etc.  
       It is somewhat understandable how those with limited financial resources make the food choices they do, as I myself have the financial means to eat ”properly’ but often balk at purchasing an apple for 80cents for example ….

    • @Luker
      Show me food that a poor person can afford, and I’ll show you low quality food which will make a person weak and obese.
      Obese is the new starved. 
      Education on food is severely lacking. But living on a budget myself, I see it’s near impossible to get good nutricients from budget product. I’m looking for low cost protein in cans of spam now. Corned beef is more dense, but also more expensive. Meat, that’s actually wholesome, is totally out of poor people’s price range. Milk is always heavily pasteurized, nothing good left in that. Raw milk is a crime pretty much, especially in the USSA, but will cost double or triple if you can find some.
      Bread, good luck finding non-GMO. Let alone anything that a poor person could realistically afford.
      In the supermarket, the few product I am interested in buying, are shattered all over the store. Often sold out. And inflation is hitting these the hardest. Sugar bombs stay at the same price. 100% juice, price is ramping up hard. If only all the proper foods were put in a special “proper food” section of the store, it could be smaller than the tiniest gas station shop, and have everything there. Still, poor people would not be buying, for budget reasons. They’ll obese, or die of starvation. No middle ground exists anymore I am afraid.

    • “Welcome to the USSA and liberal nanny state laws, it is going to keep getting worse”
      Yes, it very well could.  About all we can do at the moment is to support those for elective office that are not big-time nanny state supporters.  Yes, they are few in number but should be cultivated whenever and wherever found.  I can’t vote in any state but my home state but there is nothing that stops me from contributing to the campaigns of those who seem interested in doing a better job of running the country and the opponents of those who are not.

    • Agreed.  I do not confuse food volume with nutritional content and was not even implying that.  If it seemed that I did then I need to communicate more clearly.
      All too many low cost foods are loaded with starch and sugar, neither of which is terribly nutritious but both of which can be fattening.  They also could promote the development of diabetes, particularly in some ethnic groups that are more susceptible to it.
      “It is somewhat understandable how those with limited financial resources make the food choices they do, as I myself have the financial means to eat ”properly’ but often balk at purchasing an apple for 80cents for example ….”
      Agreed.  Food cost is often a consideration for many people and this is likely to get worse in the future as oil prices rise with diminishing production and increasing regulation.

  2. Huh, you guys for real? Prices for metals are set on the London AM and PM fix. What is this jazz about fluctuating prices. When I buy bullion from LBMA approved metal companies, the price of exchange is set, twice a day. All contracts are settled at the next available fix price.

    • LBMA, WE DON”T Need No Stinkin LBMA.  LOL. The price moves up and down by the minute in my neighborhood. I buy it at the lowest price I can get any time of the day!

    • The price of the paper markets move up and down, but immediate delivery does not. Especially if you want to buy by the kilo at the lowest price, with no intermediate mark up. Oz’s are for wimps :-) 

    • “Especially if you want to buy by the kilo at the lowest price, with no intermediate mark up. Oz’s are for wimps  ”
      Lol… well, they DO call it the POUND Sterling and not the ounce sterling.  

    • @WaitingForSilver: Storing food, fuel, ammo, water filters, coffee, Heirloom seeds, solar panels & MC4 cables, marine batteries, inverters, step up transformer, switcher, wiring, motor oils & filters, spark plugs, 2 stroke oil, chain lube, kerosene, wood stove & to much more to list…. I’m feeling mighty Wimpy! I’ll gladly pay you Tuesday for an ounce today! LOL Or a 10 year supply of chicken eggs for a kilo of Ag! You buy their scratch!

    • @Ed_B Yeah I know all about the POUND sterling, but if your buying in quantity in Europe, which the UK is now part of, you buy in KILOS not POUNDS and Troy Oz’s is just an archaic useless measure that seems only be useful in Coinage. Hey if you want to waste all your money paying over the odds for little round discs with pretty pictures, go for your Troy Oz, just remember that your paying over the odds because a) your dealing with an intermediate source for your silver/gold; b) Your paying for the costs incurred for smaller units; 
      My remark about Troy OZ’s Versus KILOS, was more to do with buying in bulk, not so much the measurement. Most refiners nowadays sell by the Kilo not the Troy Pound.
      @RocketsRedGlare Dude you got a heck of a fetish going on there, but hey whatever floats your boat. I am not a doomsday pre parer and never will be in my opinion your just wasting money. If life does get that hard then I think you will need more than that set up. I suppose its because you live in America, in the UK, we don’t worry about doomsday, we been fighting wars a long long time. That which does not kill you makes you stronger.

    • actually, the reason Americans prefer silver and gold eagles is because our government has a deal with its citizens…. if we buy our countrys minted silver, it is “tax exempt” from capitol gains at any level. for gold there is a set amount, but a number of profit is allowable without gains tax. these tax loopholes do not apply to bars. It behooves a foreigner to ASK a countryman WHY he prefers a form of investment over another for education sake, else your just being rude, and ignorant.

  3. I saw the Netdania mess, the price didn’t ramp, it just was.  No connecting line fom here to there. Kitco is reporting something more palatable while the automated Netdania shows skullduggery afoot.  I’ll go with Netdania, kitco is enemy territory.
    Last week of February there were all these contracts standing, then the last day before notice, 90% of them vanished (again) just like the end of November, ’12.  These contracts don’t just vanish, but it’s all done behind the scenes.  Maybe they are frantically trying to get enough to deliver, more than they will admit to.  They don’t want us to be hopeful.  So, Cheers!  Let’s hope it all blows up.

  4. Duck Vision  This is anothre sad part of your video.  100 peeps for every LEO.  How many people would it take to politely but forcefully take the LEO to the side, holding them and preventing them for access their firearms, or jsut disarming them.  Then the peeps get the food and split.  Now, I have any idea why these people did not take action.  They are already well feed with SNAP, ERT and other welfare systems.  They were not that hungry despite the bellyaching about kids being hungry.
    Rest assured, if there were sufficient numbers of people with  hungry kids, you would see a flash mob of epic proportions.  These people were full and satisfied with little more on their mind than bitching about this.  Sad but true.  When this crowd becomes hungry and their SNAP cards shut down, there will be no politeness left. 

    • The throwing away of food does seem pointless until you look at it from the perspective that any food given away just takes that much away from other would be sales.  That is why they are protecting their trash. Normally, dumpster diving is not a crime in any way. Once anything hits the trash, it’s legally free game for the taking. The cops have to know this. Someone was making sure these people remained “customers”.

    • Ken… another facet of this who affair could be legal.  If any of that food had expired “use by” dates on them, someone ate them, and got sick all he|| would break loose… even if the food was fine and did not cause the illness.  The fact that it MIGHT could be enough to cause considerable difficulty for anyone trying to help people by giving it away.  I am reminded of the old saying, “No good deed goes unpunished”.

    • Me neither, Pat, and neither is Jim Rogers who IS a billionaire.  In fact, he suggests dealing with Cyprus by “running for the hills”.  This bankster theft in Cyprus really has him spooked.  Jim is a pretty cagey fellow.  If he really is spooked, there is likely to be a pretty good reason for it.  I would LOVE to have the info pipeline he has.

  5. I was thinking of how to get my head wrapped around this Cyprus situation.  It’s really clear now that the bail-in formulation for years.  This whole system did not happen overnight. It reminds me of the neutron bomb. It took years to develop and was the perfect weapon.  It kills people and left the buildings intact. 
    Now we have the IMF FIAT neutron bomb.  It destroys your bank account but leaves the buildings intact.  You are just collateral damage
    I guess I’ll call it the Neutron bomb-bail-in.  Either that or the Illudium Q-36  explosive space modulator. If that one has not be taken.

    • How about BSium-118?  When it explodes, there is no flash, sound, or smoke.  Your money just vaporizes like it was never there at all.

    • @Ed_B … LOL!
      @AGXIIK … If you look at the ‘statutes’ being cobbled together by the banks for the politicos to rubber stamp, they’re talking about swapping account holders’ cash for bank shares. So, the bankers get to off-load their worthless shares onto the account-holders at mark-to-make-believe ‘values’ to walk without personal losses. What’s most galling, is that they’re calling this feudalistic haughtiness ‘free market’! TRULY a WTF moment!

    • “What’s most galling, is that they’re calling this feudalistic haughtiness ‘free market’! TRULY a WTF moment!”
      Agreed, Pat.  We will likely be seeing many of these Orwellian twists and turns of illogic.  Just consider it as Sheeple camouflage.  The rest of us are not confused by it or its purpose.

  6. As of this moment, silver spot c/- Netdania is US$27.95, whilst Bullionvault is US$28.55. I noticed this earlier this morning but thought maybe Netdania had a bug in it, but it seems something more systemic is going on…

    • Not silly at all, Andrew. I haven’t EVER let a GRAIN of PMs go, except in one solitary instance when I used a half ounce gold coin to secure Equity Title (substance for substance) in my home at the conclusion of my Principal Money Mortgage more than a decade ago.

    • I think being in total control, they could make it look however they wanted to at the beginning. But, this sure is one very possible way it could look. It seems to fit with 36 russian warships in the Black Sea, N Korea aiming at USA and S Korea, and US B-52 and Stealth bombers in S Korea – but maybe that’s just my overactive imagination!?

  7. If two thirds of the Earth’s population works for the equivalent of a dime a day; what is a rational ‘price’ quote for one troy ounce of silver?
    As was anticipated: The recent paper price has gradually and now finally divorced itself from reality.
    If yearly productionis several billion dimes worth of silver, a dime a day is a fine wage!
    The current fiat inflation is truly the worst in the world history of ‘money’.

  8. Actually, I am not sure what is worse; the debasement itself or the utter apathy towards understanding that persists to this day.
    Folks will spend all the years of their lives toiling away for scrip and not an hour to ponder its worth?

    • @silverseeker123
      However dismaying, don’t let it disturb you too much. Thus it’s always been …
      “All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise, not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from the downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.”  –John Adams

    • Absolutely, Pat.  The vast majority of Americans are MUCH better at earning money (yes, I know it’s just fiat currency) than they are at nurturing and growing it.  A great deal of what we here find terribly important is absolutely ignored as irrelevant by most Americans, if they ever think of it at all.  Very few of our countrymen have any idea at all about how the Fed came to be, that US money was once fully backed by gold and silver but no longer is, and that paper certificates once proclaimed things like “One Silver Dollar Payable To The Bearer On Demand”.  Fewer yet grasp the immense importance of this proclamation or the fact that the US Constitution contains an official description of what constitutes a “dollar”.  We know this to be 371.25 grains of pure silver.  We also know that a US Federal Reserve $1 note does not contain any silver nor is it convertible into 371.25 grains of pure silver.  Therefore, it not only is not a dollar, it cannot be a dollar.  Yet, we are told by the Fed and the Gov that it is.
      Thus we have in incremental steps over time the devolvement of US currency from a commodity based money (gold and silver), to a representative commodity money (gold and silver certificates), to Federal Reserve Notes, and now to electronic money that the Fed and Gov do not even bother to print on paper.  Again, it is well known that a note is not money.  It IS a debt instrument and that is ALL that it is.  A mortgage is a debt instrument too but no one confuses it with money.  No one takes a copy of their mortgage along when they go shopping.  The reason for this is simple… a mortgage is NOT money.  Well, as shown above, US currency is not money either but so long as enough people pretend that it is, it can be used as if it was actually money… for a while.
      Unfortunately for the monetary incrementalists out there, all this currency manipulation and incremental changing over time has created many very substantial problems but has not created any solutions whatever for the monetary excesses that this fiddling has caused. Therefore, the current system, which many agree is unstable and unsustainable, will either be altered into a new honest money system that is both stable and sustainable or it will have a spectacular crash that will be worse than the stock crash of 1929.  So far, however, the numbers of people that even recognize this problem is minuscule which means that there is no political action on it.  Just try telling the Sheeple that these things are so.  Attempting this always results in either anger, wild-eyed disbelief, or both.  Because of this, a monetary collapse is not only possible but inevitable.  We do have to give credit where it is due, however, because those in charge of all this have managed to keep the game going longer than most of us ever imagined they could.  While this does buy additional time for those of us to prepare ourselves for a very different monetary future, it in no way solves the basic problem of dishonest money.

  9. I’m looking at lowest prices in a month on Netdania now. Wasn’t online last night, so WTF?
    Lost all my wealth in leveraged silver paper 2 years ago this weekend. Couldn’t get out of my long. Since, I’ve been stacking what little I could.

    • Very interesting thoughts bk … well spotted, I think ur onto something there. The prices of G and S haven’t moved for a long time now. I too smell something of biblical proportions.

  10. The feeds were switched off, who switched them off and why ??

    And, was any data “edited” while the feeds were off line. Ownership, dates acquired, date of options etc.?

    Being a noob, I offer these measly suggestions to anyone better connected with the data content.

    But forensic, nontheless.

  11. misitu  your comment just gave me a weird thought, one of many I’ll have a day but maybe something worth considering.
    Would it not be the best thing for the silver and gold prices is if the entire electronic reportage network went off line for 2 weeks   If the banksters can shut down the banks in Cyprus, thus completely skewing the price of the banks, loans and particularly the value of the account holders deposits, then a showdown of the PM pricing might actually do something positive.  It would force the PM marketplace to scramble to get handle on the physical prices of gold and silver.  Because the electronic spot price does NOT represent the real price of precious metals, this could give us one heck of a reset, and potentially a positive one too boot

  12. “Gold, silver futures markets heading for crisis”
    –Alasdair Macleod, December 10, 2012

    The electronic charting for Gold and Silver prices that the entire world relies upon for buying and selling precious metals is all based on the ‘futures’ market…

    Why do we need the ‘futures’ market to set the prices of Gold and Silver?  An apple has no futures market, yet the store owner does not need to check the Internet to know what price the apple should be sold at.

    The ‘futures’ market has turned into a scam by bankers to allow them to control the prices of commodities while printing ever increasing amounts of ‘money’…

  13. luker222  that obsessive eating reminds me of the condition called Pica  A person consumes a strange food or substance that bears no reality to nutrition but they consume it because they are convinced it will feed their need.  If people are eating empty calories that does not mean their bodies don’t recognize the nutritional lack in their main diet. So they become obese trying to get enough good nutrition that might be mixed in the calorically empty foods they regularly consume

    • Mark, looks like the answer is ‘no’! Which means that, by definition, there is no price = PRICELESS.  Happiness thru logic :)

  14. @patfields
    Yes, it has always been true that the nature of money has been widely misunderstood.
    To be explicit;  lets just say that 20 yrs after the internet; is its highest purpose proven to be that it is a great way to set up your brackets for March Madness? Lol.
    At least prior generations could claim ignorance; a captured press, etc.

    • @silverseeker123.  I sometimes wonder along those same lines re: the Internet.  Seems as though we gain access to more and more information via the Internet, and yet know less and less.  As the saying goes, one day we’ll know absolutely everything about nothing at all (which is pretty much the way I view the current state of economic study, or at least a very large group of “experts” within that field).

  15. Still €0,30/oz between Netdania and Kitco. That’s just WEIRD.
    My favorite dealer seems to use Kitco, and is actually quite expensive compared to the market while they used to be the absolute cheapest, by quite a bit.
    Is Netdania so poorly informed then?

  16. Man that was a lot of reply’s to ponder through, now has anyone any answers to what’s happening with the so called spot price as I was gone last night and today and just came on board tonight. Is the spot on track? or is it still out of sync? I was going to buy some shiny stuff this weekend but now I may hold off. Keep Stacking

    i made a purchase on tuesday that equals 50% of my current hoard, the check is in the clearing period as of Friday. if the metals spike significantly before the order is “filled” im sweating it that the bullion dealer will not honor the purchase price and fail to deliver. i have mixed feelings about a desired spike in price. :(

    • @Shamus001 – was your purchase via SDBullion? If so, no worries to fear about a spiking gold or silver price, our orders are locked in at time of purchase and we deliver regardless of subsequent price moves in gold or silver.


    • Thanks for the reply Doc;  Sadly enough, ive been using the same bullion dealer for 2 years now and havent found a lesser mark up. i recall comparring SD to them when i first discovered you, i dont recall if you were significantly higher, or the pay process, shipping etc. was the deterrant. (i just checked now for a refresher and you appear to be more affordable). But i used them, and im not certain of their integrity if it came down to a 2 bagger, ya know. Good to hear about your stance on that matter, i’ll be sure to reconsider & re-evaluate my business next time. Regardless, your webpage is an invaluable source of fresh news that i dont find on KWN or Goldsilver, and i awake every morning eager to view your news. Thank you for your hard work!

  18. Plus, the premiums are rising and there are more and more shortages appearing in my local coin shops. Two of them have no silver and the other two are selling precious metals with high premiums. 225$ for a one tenth ounce of gold and 35$ for a normal ounce of silver round!

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