imagesBloomberg has reported that the US Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is considering taking a role in managing the $19.4 Trillion in American’s retirement accounts.
Yes, you read that correctly, the government agency created in 2010 as part of Dodd-Frank is weighing ‘helping’ Americans manage their retirement funds…naturally by protecting them with the safety and security of Treasury bonds.

As we have been warning readers for nearly 2 years here at SD, the coming risk of confiscation is not in your gold and silver investments (the American public has nothing to confiscate), but in your pension, 401k, and IRA retirement funds through forced allocations of US Treasury paper.

Those who are unwilling to take the tax hit and get out of Dodge in time will likely soon find themselves directly funding the US ponzi scheme through their retirement funds.

 

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As Bloomberg reports:

Retirement Savings Accounts Draw U.S. Consumer Bureau Attention

By Carter Dougherty – Jan 18, 2013 12:01 AM ET

The U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is weighing whether it should take on a role in helping Americans manage the $19.4 trillion they have put into retirement savings, a move that would be the agency’s first foray into consumer investments.

“That’s one of the things we’ve been exploring and are interested in in terms of whether and what authority we have,” bureau director Richard Cordray said in an interview. He didn’t provide additional details.

Consumer Financial Protection Bureau director Richard Cordray said, “You know if you lose your home because the rest of your block is foreclosed on, your credit history is affected.” Photographer: Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg

The bureau’s core concern is that many Americans, notably those from the retiring Baby Boom generation, may fall prey to financial scams, according to three people briefed on the CFPB’s deliberations who asked not to be named because the matter is still under discussion.

The retirement savings business in the U.S. is dominated by a group of companies that handle record-keeping and management of investments in tax-advantaged vehicles like 401(k) plans and individual retirement accounts. The group includes Fidelity Investments, JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM), Charles Schwab Corp. (SCHW) and T. Rowe Price Group Inc. (TROW) Americans held $19.4 trillion in retirement assets as of Sept. 30, 2012, according to the Investment Company Institute, an industry association; about $3.5 trillion of that was in 401(k) plans.

The Securities and Exchange Commission and the Department of Labor are the main regulators of U.S. retirement savings vehicles and funds. However, the consumer bureau — established by the 2010 Dodd-Frank Act — sees itself as a potential catalyst for promoting a coherent policy across the government, the people said.

 

Retirement funds in the US account for nearly $20 trillion in available capital for the banksters and politicians to grab without needing to us any force whatsoever.

  1. Yeah, well. bring it on ’cause I am ready! Are you??????????? You can take my (little) 401K and any other public offering that makes you (the gov.) feel all warm and fuzzy. I still (and always will) have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Check out the number of sheriff’s saying so. I have no real retirement accounts that make sense to the lawmakers and bankers. Soon you all will realize that the sheep have waken and your paper means SQUAT.
     
     

  2. Cordray is one of the three collectivist a-holes Obama placed through recess appointments.  A Federal District court ruled that these appointments are illegal.  Good luck in scraping this festering tick off the body of the American people.  Other than that,  I’ve opined exhaustively about the GRA  system and theft of private pension plans, much of which will be used to bail out public employee pension plans. 
    The one thing that really concerns me about the CFPB is that they can take control of consumer issues without the Fed and Treasury using their heavy hands to extract pension plans. If a black swan even such as a 40-50% drop in the stock market that crushes the 401k and IRA accounts, the CFPB could come in and force the evil brokerages and banksters to ‘give up’ these funds, placing in the tender mercies of this Consumer Protection Entity. If that’s protection, I’ll take the cold cruel world any time.
    The fix will be in nonetheless since the CFPB is nothing but a shill for the government control. Fidelity brokerage types will welcome the slight arm twisting and bad mouthing of the CFPB. They will still run the accounts and strip most of the income into their coffers.

    • If these Marxist mofos think that they can do this and get away with it, they have another think coming.  The screaming that is now going on about gun grabs will seem insignificant compared to what happens with any attempt at a retirement plan grab.

    • If there’s a grab of retirement funds, the game will be over.  There are lines that cannot be crossed without serious repercussions. Americans will wake up when the big money grab happens.

  3. I have been telling my customers (PM people) to get rid of safety deposit boxes, retirements accounts, etc., and keep stacking,  as a public service.  The old adage “If you can’t hold it in your hand, you DON’T OWN it” applies totally here. 
     
    Do it tomorrow, please!

  4. All though they say, “weighing whether they should take control”, I bet you an oz of silver that they already have and are ready to inform the people that have them. I’m glad I’m not one of them and all in on silver.
    Don’t worry Uncle Sam will take care of your Pension, IRA, 401k for you but first we have to create a few thousand government jobs so that we can handle it. See I told you, Uncle Sam is thinking already and creating jobs. God Bless America. Sheeeeeeez Keep Stacking

  5. This is exactly why I withdrew the maximum amount allowed about 8 months ago from my 401.  I held back the vomit as I paid the taxes and the penalty, but I would rather have the remainder than lose it altogether.  Still have about $15,000 in there that I can’t touch.  When I did the withdraw is when I first started stacking, and I haven’t stopped since.  

  6. Well it sucks that many people will get screwed with this but the bottom line is that this story has been rumored for years.  People have responsibility to read and research this topic.  Hell, it’s only your future and trillions are at stake.  Not to get personal but I work for a government agency.  Everyday I hear about people’s retirement plans but never about the government rolling these funds into US junk paper.  I brought up this topic that you might want to take a lump sum and get out of the system.  The person looked at me like I needed help.  I just stopped talking because it wasn’t worth my time.  One of my 7 supervisors (yes, I have 7 supervisors!) is telling people that he is going to retire soon and get his retirement.  Then he can be hired back at his old salary plus his pension.  This guy runs millions of tax payer dollars in his in the ground.    This is a common practice with these hypocrites.  So to tell you the truth, I hope it fails.  I hope the government and the Treasury department takes it all.  It’s these type of people that double dip and fuck up the system so bad that I am literally rooting against them.  They don’t deserve the paycheck they are receiving but the most disgusting part is their retirement package.  They produce nothing and then demand these salaries and over inflated pensions.  I really don’t care about my personal fund in my pension.  I have already conceded to never getting a penny.  It’s a state pension fund so I have no options to receive any money before I retire.  These people have no idea what will hit them in the near future.

  7. The talk has been going on for nearly 20 years now, but the day of seizure is coming closer. 
    Ten years ago, it finally dawned on me when their backs were against the wall, they would go after the biggest, easy pot of money around…..and knew exactly where it was due to the custodial arrangement of tax sheltered accounts.  Took mine out, paid the taxes/penalties, and bought and buried silver at 6 bucks/oz.
    THAT is real “consumer protection”.

    • @Just Observing
      Just in case you check out on us and believe me I am not being greedy when I say this, as we are all in the Silver Brotherhood here. I would suggest that you send The Doc a map of where you have your Silver buried so he can publish it here and we would of course pitch in and send flowers and condolences after we cash in your Silver and kindly give The U S Treasury their fair share. Just thinking that would be the kind thing to do for the poor rotten, black hearted bastards!
      Stay well my friend!
      Ranger
       
       

  8. Okay heads up to anyone that can give a provable answer.
    If an IRA is in a Sep IRA account and there is cash and stocks that are controlled by the owner (self) of the account, how could any or the total amount be consfiscated? As it stands I have only a minimum amount required to withdraw from my SEP IRA, but I believe that all can be withdrawn at any time. I have no idea how 401k’s or 403b’s are allocated and only know that my son and daughter have one or the other and not familiar with the nomenclature of how they work or penalties involved on any withdrawals. If any of my buddy Silver Bugs here can enlighten me, I welcome your comments.
    Thanks,
    Ranger 
     

  9. Ranger  Over the last 2 years I’ve studied up on this subject.  About 5-6 years ago Theresa Ghillarduci came up with a proposal called the GRA  or Guaranteed  Retirement Annuity.  It was studied by the Senate and brought up as a bill in 2008, passed by the Senate with the support of Nancy Pelosi.  While I don’t have the exact number, SB 1148 comes to mind.  This GRA would be used, foisted on the American private pension holders not just as a fait accompli but rolled out when the pension owners suffered a large loss through a stock market collapse or through losses greated by a bond bubble.  Never waste a good crisis.
    These people are well aware of the fact that the American people were hit for multi trillion dollar losses in the 2001-2002 tech wreck as well as the Lehman crash of 2008.  It is under a scenario like this that the law would be trotted out as a means to save the American investors from themselves and the evils of a volatile marketplace. 
    The GRA would be proposed to the major banks and brokerage with two options. One would be a forced 5% payroll deduction that’d be invested in a GRA account, invested in 10 year US Treasuries.  Much like the Social Security tax, this GRA account would be used to directly fund the US Government spending machine.   The other plan would be a forced participation in a GRA with a suggested 25% of your  private pension fund rotated into the annuity.  The annuity has some real problems including its low investment return of maybe as little as 2% yield on the 10 yr bonds.  If rates rose signficantly to a 30 year norm such as 5%, the annuity face value would drop by as much as 25-30%, almost as much as a stock market crash.  The low bond rates would never recover value since the future rates are destined to remain at elevated levels for decades due to inflationary pressures. Withdrawal would not be permitted without severe costs.
    Over the years the large brokerages and banks would be coerced by the government to continue to rotate more and more of the client pension plans into the GRAs, much like the frog in the boiling pot.  Variations of these plans have been implemented in 9 European companies as well as Argentine.  Spain has removed about $75 billion or 90% of the public pension funds into Spanish bonds, one of the worst investments in the western world. That plan will end badly.
    The GRA will continue to consume private pension plans, first by voluntary means but later with coercion as the government finds itself needing continual funding to pay for deficits, refinance bonds coming due and other government expenditures such as the tens of trillions needed to pay for Social security and Medicare. The ‘contributions’ to Social Security were never voluntary but many promises were made; few were kept.
    One unpleasant feature of the GRA is that it is not really your money.  When you die, the law provides for half of the funds can go to your heirs.  The rest escheats to the Federal government.  The funds cannot be donated either since half belongs to the government.   These are features of the law that you can research.  Due to these findings I converted both 100% of my IRA and my wife’s into a SDIRA holding gold and silver in our segregated vault at home. Hopefully safe and sound and out of the grasp of a greedy government, this plan represented the best option for us

    • AGXIIK, you hit the nail on the head! This ZIRP environment is the worst possible time to get locked into Treasury bonds because you know interest rates will eventually rise which means in order to maintain the “yield” the price of the bond you’re locked into has to drop. Hence the “unintended consequence” of the govt. claiming to “protect the people from volatility in the markets” would actually result in larger losses than they would have otherwise been exposed to!!! The govt. bureaucratic idiots have no clue what they’re doing other than foaming-at-the-mouth over a “honey pot” of money to get control of!!!!!!!  

    • “This GRA would be used, foisted on the American private pension holders not just as a fait accompli but rolled out when the pension owners suffered a large loss through a stock market collapse or through losses greated by a bond bubble.  Never waste a good crisis.”
       
      Worse than that, AG.  These s**t stains do not have to wait for a crisis to come along.  Their good friend Benny can cause one to happen at any time he / they choose, so their timing on this can be rather impeccable.
       
      While I do still have quite a bit of money invested in IRAs, it IS coming out in increments.  Further, if there is ANY move to implement a “voluntary” path for retirement plan savers into US Gov bonds, it will ALL come out ASAP.  It will then go into gold that will be buried in undisclosed locations.
       
      On the other hand, as skulduggerous as this Fed / Gov crowd is, is there any chance that this GRA talk is a feint that will cause people to withdraw their retirement plan funds and pay a large tax on it?  Maybe it is the tax that they are after?  Hmmm…
       
       

    • If they were smart, they would take the guns first.  I’m betting that they will take the retirement funds first.  Their stab at taking the guns isn’t workout out especially well for them.

  10. If I Hadn’t already taken my ira out, taken the tax hit and plowed it into silver. The very mention of dodd-frank somehow evolved in my financial future would send me running to do it now.
    Off topic- Ravens over 49ers 17 to 38…

  11. Here’s the thing, the people that are the swing vote in voting in these “politicians”, don’t have retirement accounts, or any meaningful assets at all. All they’re concerned about is getting their “free” stuff from the govt. In this kind of “democracy” a simple majority of the “idiots” is ruining this country and TPTB know this and control it with their propaganda media! Hey, as long as “Joe the Plumber” has his case of Budweiser and a flat screen TV to watch the Super Bowl in high def, he’s happy!!! 

  12. Ranger   Pento has a real bead on that.  Nothing I’ve heard, read of seen tells me this bond bubble will not explode.
    Steve  Two things you can count on. 1.
    Joe Bagodonuts, card carry member of the Mooch Class, has unlimited wants and needs.   He doesn’t know where the money will come, knows jack of retirement plans,  but he votes and knows his elected officials will cough up the cash.
    2.  The Congresspimple knows where the money is and wants Joe’s votes. Jack’s running scared.
    3.  We know that when the legislature is in session no one, or their money, is safe.
    Let’s redistribute that wealth brothers and sisters.  Whoo hoo.

    BTW This is a classic example of Cass Sunstein’s new book, Nudge. In this book Sunstein does not recommend violence to promore change. He thinks that Nudging the Sheeples works best. Consider Cordray’s idea of helping us with our retirement plans as another Nudge.

    • I am sure that we have all noticed that none of these moochers or their kiss-ass politicians ever suggest redistributing the EFFORT that went into creating the wealth that they are so hot to trot to redistribute.  If memory serves me, this was exactly what brought down the USSR.  Pity we seem unable to learn anything from that rather spectacular bankruptcy.
       

  13. The way I see it, without the internet, none of us we be the wiser. I took the tax hit in 2012. Cashed out a union pension. I made my tax money in stocks with a solid PM base. I am now all in long SQQQ. With the internet, one can make educated moves, with the playing field level. Make your moves, your money before they take away the internet. There are no best guesses, only their deadlines moved up due to internet educated enemies. They will move, so wisely make your moves. There are four or five certainties…oil is their cash, watch the prices, the USA is supported by a monopoly money ponzi scheme, DC is told what to do and make laws years in advance before they are useful, our enemies are helpless, and Americans are clueless. Get through the doors before they close.

    • Pretty gutsy move going with a fund that involves derivative leverage and shorts a big chunk of the market.  Hope that works out for ya.

      Uncle Benny is throwing a trillion dollars a year at the markets and that WILL inflate stock prices.  That will continue until the market collapses, of course.  Unfortunately, no paper asset, long or short, will be worth much when that happens.

  14. Ed B
    I don’t think the GRA is a feint. The Roth IRA conversion was the real feint.  Probably millions converted to the Roth, as it was suggested by many  financial planners  as a good idea when tax rates were low.
     At conversion the Roth coughs up a serious chunk of taxes.  Government says that once the Roth is converted, there are no taxes on withdrawals after that.  Of course, the gummint is great at the big lie.  Anytime in the future the Roth safe harbor could be cancelled.  All a president would have to do is pull the NDRP or NDAA trigger and they own our butts.  I can’t imagine that the gummint would create a false flag of imminent IRA seizures to get the tax revenues from the sheeples. They are good at creating the laws of unintended cnsequences but most of those do not profit the government.  Most people’ve never even heard of the IRA grabs thus leaving themselves as a convenient target. Those that were smart enough to see this coming would do just what most of us are doing.  Slowly removing the IRA balances, paying the much smaller amounts of taxes and moving on. The IRS wins but only on a minor income level. If someone buys PMs post IRA extraction, the chances grow increasingly scarce that taxes will ever be paid on profits or capital gains.
    The IRS calculated that the tax revenues from us old farts taking distributions from IRAs in our golden years would represented a good solid  30 year revenue plan.  We would still be paying into the system just like when we made the big bucks in our more productive years. Maybe the gummint would get lucky, shipping Social Security our way but getting as much in tax revenues from IRA withdrawals.  There is a reason you must start taking withdrawals at age 70.  The gummint is many things, but patience is not one of their virtues.
     The gummint would have a nice solid predictable tax revenue stream from the oldsters that would help keep revenus stable.  The retirement plans really came into their own in the 1980, when tax rates were pretty low, thanks to Reagan. In the last 30 years rates have edged upwards in a fairly continual path, going much according to plan.  Outside the abberation of the Bush tax cuts that came on top of the war costs, the rates could be studied; computed on an reasonably accurate actuarial basis based on the aging of the population and the commmencement of IRA withdrawals.  It was not so much the actual realized tax revenues; it was the realization that they were hard numbers that the Tax Nazis could count on. Their models were static and that has caused some severe expectations in the numbers that were run in decades past.
    Some of the things that the IRS did not take into account were the last two severe equity/Dow crashes, both of which stripped away a significant portion of the IRA overall values. 401k became 201k. They did not take into account severe drops in income that forced IRA holders to invade their balances early.
      Nonetheless, the multi trillions in private retirement savings are both a short and long term target.  Short term due to the gummint greed and need for money now with GRAs as a means to move the revenue plans up the line.  Long term in that the IRS will get a significant portion of the IRA balances over a 20 year distribution time line. There’s a good possibility that the GRA pension grabs will move up in Federal income precedences, thus leaving out the annoying waiting  for revenues and actuarial estimation of when the holder will die, with the estate coughing up half of the balances.  The GRA may compete with the IRS as a revenue source, putting the IRS in second place even after all their careful plans and projections.
    Socialist (IRS) are criminals with a slow time line.  Communists (GRA) are Socialists with a huge lack of patience and guns.  We’re sort of sandwiched between the two right now

    • “The Roth IRA conversion was the real feint.  Probably millions converted to the Roth, as it was suggested by many  financial planners  as a good idea when tax rates were low.  At conversion the Roth coughs up a serious chunk of taxes.”
       
      Actually, I do not see it that way.  My advice to people was to use both the Roth and the traditional IRA in their retirement planning.  The Roth IRA would be used for the 1st 15-20 years of their working life when there wages or salaries were relatively low and their taxes as well and then switch to a traditional IRA to score the tax deduction for the final 20 or so years of their working life when their income is higher and the tax deferral more valuable to them.  Yes, taxes are due on all earned income, so with the Roth, taxes are paid up front (but not later), and with the traditional IRA, taxes are paid later but not up front.  One thing, though, is that the money that we earn and contribute to an IRA turns out to be quite a bit less than the growth of the account.  This gives the Roth a significant advantage because its gains are not taxed.  Everything taken from a traditional IRA in retirement is taxed as income, including the earnings.  These would be considered capital gains and taxed at a lower rate than income… so far, anyway.  By using both forms of the IRA, it becomes possible to adjust one’s tax liability for any particular set of circumstances.  This can be quite useful at times.  If there is a scam here it is the taxing of long term cap gains in a traditional IRA as ordinary income, which they are not.
       
      There is also a rather nifty end-around play that the Feds can pull and that would be to implement a national sales tax or a value added tax.  Either of these would put the bite on Roth IRA or 401K plan money, when withdrawn and spent, that was not originally intended and would reduce the benefit of having a Roth vs. a traditional retirement plan.  This has been mentioned, casually, probably as a “trial balloon”, just to see what the reaction would be.  So far, it has been pretty muted, so it has a pretty good chance of coming in, probably as a small part of a much larger spending / funding bill.
       
      ” I can’t imagine that the gummint would create a false flag of imminent IRA seizures to get the tax revenues from the sheeples.”
       
      Consider that this would not be an obvious ploy on their part.  What they would likely do would be to start talking about a plan to do this and if people want to run for cover BEFORE it gets implemented then there is no reason for them to actually implement it because a great deal of IRA money would be moved “out of harm’s way” while the moving was good. It would be taxed as it was removed from the IRA.  Mission accomplished and without actually having done what was feared.  I do not underestimate the level to which these people can sink or the deviousness to which they aspire.  It would be wise if none of us did.
       
      “There is a reason you must start taking withdrawals at age 70.  The gummint is many things, but patience is not one of their virtues.”
       
      Actually, they are quite patient but their patience does have limits.  Consider that by the time a person is 70.5 years old, they may very well have been paying into their IRA for the better part of 50 years.  How long should the Gov wait for their tax money?  That seems pretty patient to me.
       
      “Their models were static and that has caused some severe expectations in the numbers that were run in decades past.”
       
      Many states have a similar problem with their VERY rosy projections as to how much their retirement plans could earn. They have since discovered that this is not so rosy.  Any that borrowed money from these plans now have a severe funding problem.
       
      “Some of the things that the IRS did not take into account were the last two severe equity/Dow crashes, both of which stripped away a significant portion of the IRA overall values. 401k became 201k.”
       
      I have heard that comment before but have not seen it myself.  My 401k plan was rolled into an IRA in 2005.  At that time, it was about $580k.  Since then, I have taken about $32k per year from it for living expenses or $224k.  In spite of this drain, it is still at about $515k today and that because I took an additional $28k out for conversion to PMs.  There was a time in early 2009 when it dipped to $380k.  Too bad that I did not do a Roth conversion on it then.  The doubling of the market since then would have much more than made up for the tax paid.
       
      “They did not take into account severe drops in income that forced IRA holders to invade their balances early.”
       
      401k plan owners have been borrowing money to make ends meet as well.  Not a good situation.
       
      “We’re sort of sandwiched between the two right now”
       
      Sounds like a rather standard position, then.  Damned if we do and damned if we don’t.  But what the hell… you have to admit that it IS a fascinating game we are all playing.  ;-)
       
       
       

  15. Ed B I think you got figured this more accurately that me. I tend to get myself wrapped around the axle when it comes to the government and its deviousness. How one deals with a Roth and regular IRA has more twists and turns that I realized. I also think that you managed your investment affairs more effectively than most, getting a good return and retaining principal.
    The VAT is something I didn’t think about. VAT taxes are terrible taxes,regressive and inflationary to the extreme.
    It’s nearly impossible to work around them as they’re embedded in ever level of production and consumption. If faced with that I’d probably end up buying everything on Craiglist and EBay.
    There is one think I can say about government. It doesn’t matter how tight you wear your tin foil hat and what sort of conspiracy theories appeal to us, the truth is stranger than we can imagine. Heck, nothing surprises me any more. Thanks for the analysis and further information . As long as the legislature is in session, no one is far.
    Hey Obama, don’t drone me bro.

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