Yesterday news broke that at least 10 tungsten filled 10 oz PAMP gold bars have been discovered in Manhattan’s jewelry district.
Apparently Louis Vuitton & Coach bags aren’t the only thing being counter-fitted by the Chinese, as thanks to Microsoft translator, SD has discovered a Chinese firm SPECIALIZING IN PRODUCING TUNGSTEN FILLED GOLD BARS & COINS!!
Not only will the firm openly mint fake gold coins and bars, but they will apparently mint them to order by request!: ‘Chinatungsten could offer gold-plated tungsten alloy coin by different gold with engraving or stamping. Clients can forward their own design, then Chinatungsten could design and make mold accordingly‘
The firm states that the fake gold coins and bars are ‘only for gift, present, handicraft, and never could be used for any illegal purpose‘ . Yes, obviously the fake gold products could never be used fraudulently because they kindly ask their customers not to use their tungsten filled gold products illegally.
The firm explains how fake gold bars are made, and goes so far as to claim that tungsten gold has many advantages over gold, which we suppose is true for those wishing to scam others into purchasing fake gold.
They start by promoting the advantages of tungsten laced gold over .999 gold bullion:
Gold-plated Tungsten Alloy Bar
Advantages of Gold-plated Tungsten Alloy Bar
In theory, as the density of uranium is 19.1g/cm3, which is approximately 70% denser than lead, gold-plated tungsten alloy bar and tungsten alloy golden bar could be used as material of making fake gold products. However, tungsten alloy golden bar is weakly radioactive and not as dense as gold, so it does not appear to be a practical method.
Then people have discovered that tungsten is environmental-friendly, durable and hardness, the most import
ant is that its density of 19.25g/cm3 is just about the same density as gold (19.3g/cm3), which bears the similar specific gravity. These advantages make tungsten alloy golden bar and gold-plated tungsten bar enjoys the superiority to be the best golden substitution for the costly metal of gold or platinum.
How to Make Gold-plated Tungsten Alloy Bar?
Start with a tungsten alloy about 1/8-inch smaller in each dimension than the tungsten alloy golden bar you want, then cast a 1/16-inch layer of real pure gold all around it. This product would feel right in the hand, and tungsten alloy golden bar would have a dead ring when knocked as gold should. Gold-plated tungsten alloy bar would test right chemically, weigh exactly the right amount, and als
o pass an x-ray fluorescence scan, the 1/16″ layer of pure gold being enough to stop the x-rays from reaching any tungsten.
The appliances of Chinatungsten gold-plated tungsten alloy bar and tungsten alloy golden bar as gold substitution.
Tungsten alloy golden bar and gold-plated tungsten bar could be regarded as the special present for some fields. If you are a broker in stock, manager in a big bank or insurance company, you can use Chinatungsten gold–plated tungsten alloy bar engraved with your company’s name as souvenirs to your VIP customers. It is a very decent present without costing too much, and also could attract more customers for your business.
Gold-plated tungsten alloy bar is the best choice if you are a gold dealer and attend some trade f
air or put your gold products in the showcase. In case your real gold being stolen, you can choose gold substitution, gold-plated tungsten alloy bar to reduce any possible loss.
We can offer tungsten alloy golden bar and gold-plated tungsten bar according to the different requirement, and also we can engrave as per your fond, such as your company logo, your name, some words, letters, etc.
Notice: Chinatungsten Online (Xiamen) Manu.&Sales Corp. is a very professional and serious company, specializing in manufacturing and selling tungsten related products for more than two decades. Our gold-plated tungsten alloy bar and tungsten alloy golden bar are only for souvenir and decoration purpose. We can provide all kinds of tungsten alloy golden bar as your requirements. Here we declare: Please do not use our gold-plated tungsten alloy bar and tungsten alloy golden bar for any illegal purpose.
If you are interest in our tungsten alloy golden bar, gold-plated tungsten alloy bar, please feel free to contact sales@chinatungsten.com, or telephone 86 592 512 9696.
More Info>>
1.Tungsten Alloy Uses
2.Tungsten Alloy Application
3.Tungsten Alloy Advantages
4.Gold-plated Tungsten Rod
5.Gold-plated Paperweight
6.Gold-plated Tungsten Coin
7. Gold-plated Tungsten Brick
8.Gold-plated Tungsten Gift
The firm claims fake gold is a better alternative to the real deal:
From Tungsten-Alloy.com courtesy Microsoft Translator:
Gold-plated tungsten alloy BRIC
Gold-plated tungsten alloy BRIC
Due to the special properties of tungsten alloy and its high density, high melting point, small size, especially its high hardness, wear resistance strong, high ultimate strength of elevating,, high toughness, high temperature characteristics, more popular than gold-plated tungsten alloy BRIC as gold craft, souvenirs, gifts and other product substitutes.
It is well known that RMB exchange rate fluctuations now frequent, many people want to buy gold to protect, however, gold to be sold one day. Perhaps our tungsten alloys are suitable for the product to be your product.
Gold-plated tungsten alloy BRIC to become alternatives to gold
Tungsten is an environmentally friendly product, Highland materials durability and hardness, density of 19.25G/cm3, it’s almost my Gold-density (19.3G/cm3) equal. Therefore, it usually becomes a substitute for gold.
These unique advantages of tungsten alloy, tungsten became the alternative to expensive products such as Platinum or gold. To tell everybody is, these gold-plated tungsten alloy BRIC accessories can give your lover, friend, classmate, important customers, can also be used as souvenirs commemorating collection, birthday, social activities and so on all can come in handy.
So, if you are interested in our gold-plated tungsten alloy BRIC, please contact us: sales@chinatungsten.comor telephone: 86 592 512.
Note: the tungsten line offers tungsten alloy products of Xiamen, Ltd is a professional company that specializes in production and sales of tungsten alloy has had for more than 20 years. our gold-plated tungsten alloy products used only for souvenirs and gifts, as well as decorations for the purpose. Here, we declare: Please do not for any illegal purposes and using our products.
The firm also claims that tungsten filled gold is a perfect substitution to real gold for gifts (nothing like f’ing your employees by making them believe they’ve received real gold as a bonus rather than an .80 brick of tungsten)
From Tungsten-Alloy.com
Gold-Plated Tungsten Alloy Coin
Gold-plated tungsten alloy coin is manufactured in the form of golden coin, which is only for gift, present, handicraft, and never could be used for any illegal purpose. Tungsten alloy coin is first made before golden-plating on it. Gold-plated tungsten alloy coin is also has the properties of high density and corrosion resistance. Therefore, the value would be remained for even it is just gold-plated tungsten alloy coin. Gold-plated tungsten alloy coin is popular in our society life.
Gold-plated Tungsten Alloy Coin for Gold Substitution
Owing to durable, hardness, oxidization resistance, environmental-friendly and weak radioactive, and the most important advantages is that it is almost has the same weight as real gold, golden coin has been the most reasonable material for commemorative coins, golden souvenir, birthday present, weeding anniversary present, etc. Even it could be used as a secret surprise for your VIP customer, the best friend, the most favorable teacher, etc.
Chinatungsten could offer gold-plated tungsten alloy coin by different gold with engraving or stamping. Clients can forward their own design, then Chinatungsten could design and make mold accordingly, and to transfer a technique drawing for clients. Many types of engraving are available, such as words, letters, numbers, birthday, etc., as long as there is a design, Chinatungsten could try them best to offer gold-plated tungsten alloy coin for you just as gold substitution. If you have no idea about engraving, Chinatungsten are also willing to give you some suggestions.
Notice: Chinatungsten Online (Xiamen) Manu.&Sales Corp. is a very professional and serious company, specializing in manufacturing and selling gold-plated tungsten alloy coin for more than two decades. Our gold-plated tungsten alloy coin is only for souvenir and decoration purpose. Here we declare: Please do not use our gold-plated tungsten alloy coin for any illegal purpose.
Gold-plated tungsten alloy coin
Therefore, if you are interest in gold- plated tungsten alloy coin, please feel free to contact sales@chinatungsten.com, or telephone 86 592 512 9696.
More Info>>
1.What’s Tungsten Alloy
2.Tungsten Heavy Alloy Grades
3.Tungsten Heavy Alloy Application
4.Gold-plated Tungsten Alloy Bar
5.Gold-plated Tungsten Alloy Paperweight
6.Gold-plated Tungsten Alloy Rod
7.Gold-plated Tungsten Alloy Brick
8.Gold-plated Tungsten Alloy Gift
While this week’s report of the fake PAMP bars likely could have been a cartel operation intended to erode public confidence in the safety of gold bullion as a wealth preservation mechanism, the fact remains clearly evident that the Chinese are producing fake gold (and silver) bars and coins, which makes it imperative that you purchase your gold and silver bullion directly from reputable dealers such as SD Bullion, and avoid online auctions such as ebay and flea market purchases.
At SD Bullion we purchase our inventory directly from US mints and suppliers, nearly completely eliminating the risk of receiving tainted bullion- particularly with official mint products such as Canadian Maples, US Eagles, and brand new freshly minted rounds and bars.
Got (real) PHYZZ??
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Maybe everyone should have a fake stack in an easy to find location in case the govt comes a-knockin’.
Great idea! That’s why China is making these. They know the gubment is going to come calling sooner or later. Call them up and have them put that use in their advertising. They would get a serious spike in orders.
<Guinness Ad> Brilliant! </Ad>
“I sold all my silver @ $xxx.xx and bought Gold, Mr. DHS agent, and that is all RIGHT HERE”
“Please don’t take my whole life savings!”
I was thinking the same thing but only for a home invasion decoy. Fake Phyzz in a fake safe…
we need a GP (Group Purchase) to satisfy the $10,000 minimum order then! lol
You’re killing me Doc. At least throw the UglyDog a bone for giving you the heads-up on China Tungsten Online and sending you the link http://www.chinatungsten.com
@UglyDog – sorry, must have missed your link somehow! Thanks for the heads up anyways though!
-Doc
Yeah, gave you(not SGT or ZeroHedge) the info on China Tungsten on Sept. 19 so you could scoop the nation. Appears you did so anyways. That’s cause I like SD so much.
@UglyDog – thanks, missed that unfortunately. Feel free to email me directly at silverdoctors@gmail.com with any future scoops…I don’t always catch everything on the threads but will get your email there. Nice work on finding that a week before I saw it!
-Doc
UglyDog would have deserved maybe 10 SD ounces, which are at least as good or better than fake Phyzzz…
Ok, I’ll bite (to determine if it’s gold) If it’s economically feasible to plate a 10 oz PAMP bar, what is there to prevent this firm from producing a few hundred thousand 1 oz AE, Kruggers, philharmonics etc. That’s a quick billion in revenues.
With 1/16 in of gold to plate that coin, that’s about $150 at present value. That would make it profitable to produce these coins.
By way of reference The Chinese firm Foxconn has reversed engineered the Apple 5 and will produce it in Brazil under an in house name. After Apple presold 5,000,000 A5′s for $700 each for $35 billion total revenues (holy crap, how can we be in a recession if there’s that much money to go around!?!?!?) peoplewould not give one second of hesitation in buying the house brand of Apple 5 for $350 from Foxconn. Ask them nicely and they’ll gold plate it for you for an extra $50.
I don’t think there is enough coin to plate it. I will go with a gold maple. if you need 1/16 of an inch of gold on both sides that would be a total thichness of 0,125 in of gold. a maple is only .12in thick, so you would get more gold
I don’t know the details of other coins off the top of my head because I like the maples :)
Now I do have a cold right now, so someone let me know if my math is wrong…
“(holy crap, how can we be in a recession if there’s that much money to go around!?!?!?)”
Well, much of the economy is psychological, but this time it’s real. They WANT us to loosen up and spend that jack,
but we hold on tight to our money, except for the good stuff (ie. iPhone5, AgStax, AuStax, food, fuel LOL). We assume
RIGHTFULLY that the SHTF is on its way, so we hang on. They want us to make the consumer economy flourish, so
the can keep milking us out, sliding further and faster down the spiral.
Not meaning to lecture you AGXIIK,
just using your comment as a jumping off point.
Good observation!
Oh the joys, it makes me wonder how many of those have been sold through the online auction sites?
On their site they show a fake Krugerrand. They don’t give any details, but its not just a round. Rounds can be faked just like name brand bars can because no one knows the size dimensions. If you only go by weight you can be fooled.
There is a typo on their site stating that their tungsten alloy is 3.6% of that of gold. When you run the math it is actually .36%. This is disconcerting for discovering fakes in AGE and others in the realm of 22k. Better to go with Maples, as they are 24k. To be faked and remain in size compliance Maples would end up weighing in at 30.99 grams. Just barley low.
However, on coins in the 22k variety, since tungsten alloy is .36% lower in density from 24K gold, there is mush more leeway to use this lower density tungsten with the the even lower density 22k gold. One could actually use even higher purity gold to fudge the difference and come up with and exact weight and size. The only way to tell would be to be able to test the minute difference in the gold purity above that of the 22k.
The above is really only applicable to gold plated tungsten alloy as the dimensions are not there for the other type of fake such as the bars in question. If there is needed 1/16 of an inch of gold wrapping the tungsten to avoid x-ray detection then that would mean that there would need to be 3.175 mm of gold wrapping on an AGE when they are only 2.87 mm to begin with.
I am quite curious about that fake Krugerrand though. I would love to know the dimensions.
The density of the American Gold Eagle is 14.0689 g/cm3 (as it is an alloy of Au (91.667% by weight), Ag (3% by weight), and Cu (5.33% by weight)). A copper-tungsten alloy of 75% W and 25% Cu has density of 14.5 g/cm3 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper-tungsten). A Cu-W alloy of 70% W and 30% Cu has density of 13.8 g/cm3. Therefore, a Cu-W alloy of about 72% W and 28% Cu would match the density of the American Gold Eagle.
So, the a counterfeiter could produce Cu-W alloy blanks, put these through a die press, and electroplate the fake with Au. However, I don’t know if the fake could be electroplated with the AGE alloy, however (but I doubt it). If electroplated with pure gold, it would look like a fake (too shiny), but it would have the same dimensions and density of the real thing.
Given that it is no secret the chinese have been manufacturing fake Silver coins like Morgan dollars, this is no surprise. What is remarkable is that their .govt lets them get away with it.
For this reason -as well as the fact that I want to give them as little money as possible – I will never buy a chinese gold panda or any of their zodiac coins. Also, why wouldn’t these be the most likely coins for the shinese to counterfeit, given how adept they are at ripping each other off?
There’s nothing remarkable about it. China IS a police state. Not much happens there without official approval. Such approval IS for sale, so grease the right palms and you are, uh, golden. Only rule is: ”Thou shalt not screw a fellow Chinese. OK to screw ALL others”.
Now here would be an irony Government confiscation. You sell them your counterfeit gold at market price. You get phony paper, they get phony gold. Perfect.
As for using these as a false front for a thief. Perfect there too. 99.99% of the people and 100% of the gummint would never figure this phony gold out. Sweeeet!
Indeed so, AG. What a great way to handle this. Buy enough cheap fakes that equals your real hoard. Then, when the Feds show up with their greedy little hands out, you give them the exact number of ounces of fakes as you have safely buried. You do have the records to prove what you bought, of course, so ozs. in = ozs. out and everyone is happy. Not only that but since they have confiscated your “hoard”, they never bother to come back.
To bad these places can’t be shut down. All I have been getting from ebay is 90% and I magnet test it all. Those in the know will be on the lookout for this now and I heard there was an ultrasonic tester that can find the fakes.
VERY Nice! I bet a trained operator could use a simpler device such as is used in thickness testing.
About a $1000 bill, I checked into it for my last “hobby” :D
Maybe something to be said for graded gold coins down the road.
An ultrasonic tester can determine the velocity of the ultrasound in the metal to be tested. The speed of sound in tungsten is about 50% faster than the speed of sound in gold. Better yet, the ultrasound tester can actually “look” inside a metal sample and detect air pockets, tungsten rods, etc. This is similar to the medical ultrasound exam machines.
“Note: the tungsten line offers tungsten alloy products of Xiamen, Ltd is a professional company that specializes in production and sales of tungsten alloy has had for more than 20 years. our gold-plated tungsten alloy products used only for souvenirs and gifts, as well as decorations for the purpose. Here, we declare: Please do not for any illegal purposes and using our products.”
What a complete load of BS! There is NO legal reason to produce a gold covered tungsten bar. If it is just a souvenir, then why not use copper, lead, or iron as the insides of the bar? Because they are easily detected, is why. It is the avoidance of detection as a fake that is improved by using tungsten inside these products. :-(
Most of these gold plated tungsten bars come from China which makes me wonder what’s actually inside China’s physical gold reserve? I personally don’t have to worry about fake gold bars since gold is really expensive so I’ll stick with silver and small gold pieces such as the one gram bars and 1/10th of an ounce of gold.
Speaking of the ultrasound testers, it’s actually possible to train your ear to be able to identify 24k and other purity coins with a very high degree of accuracy. I’ve been able to do it. I can hear the expected pitch ring on a 24k and 22k coin and hear fakes. I can’t do it with lesser purity coins, however. I can also do it with 90% or higher silver coins, but I can’t tell the difference between a 90% and a 0.925 coin (sterling). The best surface to test them on and to teach yourself what the ring sound should be is probably a marble table top. But whatever you use, if you consistently use the same table top, you’ll start to learn the differences in sound if you have the ear for it. Don’t use a wood table top or a plastic synthetic. Stick to glass, slate, marble, granite or something similar.
It’s legal to make fakes in China. On the Panda, they can legally sell them as long as they don’t have the currency symbol on them.
ebay has a whole page on this, for years now.
I once had 2-3 panda’s that didn’t quite look right. Didn’t want to buy them in the first place, but I had more money than the dealer had stock. I took them back the next time I got paid, and swapped them for something else.
I don’t do pandas or mexican coins.
I also don’t buy the gold and silver pandas because they have a high premium, are not available at my local coin shops and have way too many fakes. Also, the website http://about.ag/ gives you a lot of tips on how to avoid fake silver coins and bars.
Someone posted a comment/link to this company early last week on SGT. Minimum order is $10,000, so its not like someone will buy a few for novelty reasons, sole purpose is to turn a profit (ie scam) with their ready made bullion and Krugerrands.
The chinese produce a lot of tungsten, I’m a little surprised they aren’t using all of it for defense and tooling purposes. I guess when you can counterfeit gold you don’t need to actually fight any wars. I’m surprised the chinese gov’t allows this, they are doing things that point to a gold backed yuan, this would damage the credibility of any gold backed currency they will ever issue. My guess is this operation hits the light of day and is quickly put to a halt. If the chinese people think they may be getting duped by their gov’t that will increase the possibilities of unrest over there, which i know they fear. Besides gold to silver ratio is currently 51-1 why would i buy gold now, when i could buy silver and exchange it 35,20,10-1 later?
OK, now we need to gather as much data as possible on Moly-SILVER.
Presumably only worth the expense/trouble in the larger bars, 400 oz.
Good Article!
You make a good point UndeRGRound. Thanks for kicking off that discussion. What is going on now?
How can we be in a recession when there is some much money floating around? Exactly. That the real question. QE 1,2 and 3 were and are useless. The velocity of money is lower than the Depression of 1929, lower than any time in the last century.
Banks are holding $2 trillion plus, earning less than 1% from treasuries and other ZIRP investments.
Corporations are holding an equal amount of about $2 trillion earning even less and unable to find good investments.
The consumer is shut down and holding on to what little money they have no matter if they are hundred-aires or million-aires. Silver and gold will soon get their attention if it is not already since silver and gold eagles are selling well.
But why are we all doing this?
Fear of the unknown; Fear of losing jobs or being with unexpected expenses.
Real income down 8% in the last 4 years. Ouch. Net worths off 40% in 10 years.
Banks fearful of making bad loans or any loans at all while loan demand is at a multi decade low
Companies holding cash JUST IN CASE but fearful of allocating their funds into mal investments.
It’s exponential fear factor in my opinion, less than the people rioting in Greece and Spain but palpable nonetheless
There is a real dark horse stalking the streets and people know it even if they don’t know exactly what to expect.
Everyone would love for we the consumer to cut loose but why would we.
More stuff? No, we don’t more stuff. We need to pay down debt before it consumes us and save money.
Your point is precisely why all these currency printing schemes and rebates and make work tax plans don’t and won’t push people to buy stuff or give companies incentive to invest or banks to loan. We are all stuck, unknowing of the future and afraid of what might hit us if we venture out in the world.
Total Lack of Confidence. They (govt. & banks) made this mess and there is Most likely only one solution… Start Over?