gold MSM MopeI’m going to clear the air on this matter.  For over 2 years I’ve been writing about the impending federal takeovers of pension plans.
10 countries in the Europe and South America have engaged in pension theft, conversion or expropriation to fund government operations. 
It is quite likely that we will see more of this theft in 2014, and before the financial crisis is over, probably from the TSP.
The brokerages will be completely compliant with these actions just like the Bail-in provisions signed by the FDIC, FED Bank of Canada and BOE, as was reported here on Silver Doctors in 2013.
Like Detroit with its complete expropriation of the $11,000,000,000 in pension plan funds, the Feds will use the $1.6 trillion in the TSP as they see fit.  They are patterning this on Poland and the NDRP.  Poland recently confiscated 28 billion in Euros to reduce their country debt to 56%  of the GDP.
The government simply took the funds from the private and government pension plans WITHOUT ANY COMPENSATION. 
Surely that could never happen here!

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By SD Contributor AGXIIK:

The TSP with an asset base of about $1.6 trillion was about 25% invested in US bonds and notes.  During the sequester the Treasury raided the fund for another $300,000,000,000.  Those funds, along with some funds from the GNMA and other government honey pots, were raided to the tune of about $350,000,000,000 to pay the bills until the sequester was resolved.  The US debt went up nearly $1 trillion within 3 months.  $350 billion was taken to replace the TSP and other funds used during the sequester.

I’ve been yapping for 18 months about this, noted in prior AGXIIK posts.  I previously wrote several articles about the Ghillarduci nuclear option which was passed by the Pelosi House and then approved by the Senate.  That bill provides for the option to expropriate private pensions, worth on the order of $19 trillion, should the government deem it necessary to take these pensions funds and ‘invest’ the funds into the GRA, aka Guaranteed Retirement Annuities. These accounts remove the funds from the normal brokerage accounts that hold our pension plans, whether company or individual.

The brokerages are completely compliant with these actions just like the Bail-in provisions signed by the FDIC, FED Bank of Canada and BOE, as was reported here on Silver Doctors in 2013.

These GRA accounts might pay a very modest 2-3% and are no longer your money. They will pay you an annuity that would probably be less than the funds you’d received from Social Security.  Upon your death half these funds would escheat to the government, expropriated by the government.  The other half would be given to your heirs minus the estate or inheritance taxes.

The TSP is now being used to fund the federal deficit, sequesters, debt cliffs and most likely the $4-5 trillion in roll over debt the US Treasury expects this year.
The TSP is being raided systematically and methodically because these are government funded pensions.  This is a test of the willingness of the pensioners and retirees as to whether they will ‘go to war’ over this.

Like Detroit with its complete expropriation of the $11,000,000,000 in pension plan funds, the Feds will use this $1.6 trillion as they see fit.  They are patterning this on Poland and the NDRP.  Poland recently confiscated 28 billion in Euros to reduce their country debt to 56%  of the GDP.  This debt to GDP level was mandated by their Constitution.  Thus the government took the funds from the private and government pension plans WITHOUT ANY COMPENSATION.   AND…. IT’S GONE!!!

10 countries in the Europe and South America have engaged in pension theft, conversion or expropriation to fund government operations.  It is quite likely that we will see more of this theft in 2014 and probably taken from the TSP. Once those funds have been converted to US treasuries and bonds, the retirement fund holders will have no say in this.  To protest would probably cost them their pension or job.

The private pension plans held by we, the people, are in line for confiscation either under the GRA act or NDRP.
In 2012 I took our 2 IRAs and set up a Self Directed IRA.  We invested 100% of the  funds into gold and silver and hold these two pensions plans personally and in full compliance with the IRA.

Two words for pension plan confiscation:
Rule # 1
If you don’t hold it, you don’t own
Rule #2
If you hold it, MOLON LABE!

I have posted relentlessly remorselessly and without letting up.
You can heed my words that have been exhaustively researched, or not.  If you can’t remove your pension without quitting your job, that may be the only reason not to get your IRA or 401K into your own hands.

 

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    • I’m still putting into my 401k as well, as well as other investments that are taxed up front.  I don’t disagree with anything above, but I am also not willing to throw my eggs in one basket yet.

      I would love a detailed post one setting up a self directed ira.

    • @mikeyj80 I also am still contributing into my 401k.
      My point was those folks passing up a hell of a sweet deal on employer contributions.
      Almost nobody gets 4% matching employer contributions these days.

    • @Woolly:  I love ya man, but what is ZERO times 4%?  Look, the bottom line here is that you and the millions like you–having funded an IRA–will have to swallow hard and come to the realization that this country (USA) that you have known for the past 54 years (I believe) is NOT that country any more, and probably will NEVER be that country again.  I can remember getting 6% interest on my savings account like it was yesterday!  It wasn’t yesterday, and it will never be again.  Lets be real.  The fact that the company is “matching” your input is and has been bogus from the jump.  Why?  Because they are kicking in YOUR effin money!
      And as for putting all one’s eggs in one basket….just think about this….When you load your pistol, do you put one cartridge in there, and the rest in your ammo can or what?  Your gonna put them where they will do the most good…..and you KNOW giving it to the government to “hold for you”  ain’t hittng on sh*t!.
      God love you!

    • @silverrrrr
       
      “Because they are kicking in YOUR effin money”

      Can you help me try to understand that? Lets say I make 100k, kick 4% into 401k and company matches 4%

      I have 96k and 8k in my 401k, that is money i didn’t have before

    • @silverrrrr allow me please?
      @mikeyj80 what he is saying is this: Your getting paid 100k /yr.  The employer matches 4%, you would have been making 104k /yr if your employer did not offer those spiffs, or perhaps 103k being as they probably get deductions for aiding in contributions. (plus not everyone partakes)
      So in a nut shell, like most union jobs you can make 30 bucks an hour, plus 30 bucks an hour when you take your “paid vacations” or you can work for the company that doesn’t offer paid vacations, but pays you 60 bucks an hour.  I myself have jostled around many employers who at first appeared offered RADICALLY different pay.  But after doing the math, one simply paid cash and skimpy benies, the other offered less cash, with more benies.  But in the end….
      “IT’S YOUR EFFIN MONEY”

    • “I would love a detailed post one setting up a self directed ira.”
       
      I bet.  Unfortunately, information of that quality and value tends to be SOLD and not given away.  The general approach to this is on the web and can be found via a couple of searches.  The devil, however, IS in the details and that is why one pays a good tax attorney or CPA.  Note the use of the word “good” here.  This means that this person is fully conversant with all applicable US Tax Law as well as all IRA rules and regs.  This is more rare than many know, so finding a well qualified pro to help you can be a difficult task.  It is critical that whomever is hired for this knows IRA law extremely well.  A lot of planners and advisers do not.  They have a good general knowledge but not necessarily the very tricky ins and outs of a complex conversion like this.
       
      The basic idea is this.  First, one rolls their IRA from their current custodian to one that understands what an LLC is and that can / will allow the IRA to be invested therein.  This tends to work best if a local IRA custodian can be found for this stage, as it is much simpler to drive to their office to resolve issues than mailing or faxing documents back and forth, especially those which either must be signature guaranteed or notarized.  Next, the LLC is created in the state where you live.  You are set up as the owner of the LLC and you have check-writing authority.  The money in your IRA is then “invested” in the LLC by transferring it from the local custodian into the LLC’s bank account.  Once the money is in the LLC’s account, it can be used to buy many things that it cannot in a standard IRA.  Lists of what can and what cannot be purchased if one is to remain IRS-approved in all this are on-line.  The http://www.irs.gov web site has a lot of info on this, so take some time and browse it thoroughly.  The LLC can then buy gold and silver bullion (but not numismatic coins) that will be inside the LLC wrapper but under the IRA rules and regs via the 2nd custodian mentioned above.  These coins can be either US Mint eagle coins OR the coins of any national mint so long as the coins are gold or silver and of 99.9% or higher purity.  It is likely that gold and silver bars can be included as well, so long as they are of sufficient purity and from a recognized source, such as Engelhard, Johnson-Matthey, the Swiss smelters, etc.  Be sure to check this carefully before buying.  All that remains is to send the 2nd custodian an annual itemized list of your inventory.  This should be signed, dated, and include a statement of any changes.  Be sure to keep complete records of all activity as regards this setup in case the IRS questions anything you do or fail to do.  All pertinent IRS rules and regs MUST be followed exactly if trouble is to be avoided.  This is where the value of hiring a good tax attorney or CPA to set all this up comes in.  Yes, it will cost you a few thou$and but it could also save you MUCH more than that by avoiding mistakes that could ruin the entire plan.  If a mistake is made, the IRS will very likely declare that the money sent to the LLC is not a valid IRA but a distribution, so the full tax plus any penalties assigned could be due in the tax year of that distribution.  All of this is possible and, in many ways, desirable but it is not easy.  Due diligence and attention to detail in all aspects of it is highly advised. 
       

    • @Shamus001
       
      Thanks, it is, but only if you elect to take it, you are right, others might just roll it up into a salary, but I’m certainly happy with our total comp package (as well as work life balance afforded) so not about to make a stink.
       
      Also the 401k has performed darned well too, switching to cash prior to the meltdown was fortuitous, anteing back up was even better, and maybe time for the sidelines again.

    • I’ve been looking at liberating my 401A for years, and presumably it’s impossible even if I switch jobs, and I’m nowhere near 59-1/2!
      Anyone still making employee contributions will regret it, and anyone still doing it after this has not done their homework. Sorry Mammoth, hate to break it to ya but if I had a 401K (wish I had that flexibility) I’d yank that mother huffer in a New York Minute and buy PHYzzz. 
      Actally I’d roll it over into a self-held SDIRA 
       
      I’m calling it a SHIRA    lol
       
      Trusting the F’ed Govt. is like “loaning money to a crack addict”
       
      Mikey:
       
       U better wake the f*** up quick, kid. I can’t believe you are that naive. Tough Love, Bro. Take that $4K annually and use it on something that they cannot take from you. I know you aren’t stupid but the coffee is brewing, wake up and have a cup. Refuse the Kool-Aid
       this goes for anyone in this boat… Mikey, your case just looks typical of what they tell everyone. 

  1. Yesterday in the mail I received notice from Chase Bank stating they would be requiring ID for cash deposits into personal accounts.  ID for cash deposits; do you believe that?  Notice also stated they would be requiring ID for cash deposits into business accounts as well.  What’s everyone’s take on this development?

    • Yes, that is more than a little bizarre but that’s the weird world we live in these days.  My CU always asks for my “code word” when I make a deposit and I keep telling them that anyone who wants to put money INTO my account is welcome to do that WITHOUT any code word.  It is the taking out of money that SHOULD require a code word.  lol   Obviously, they know that this is dumb but are likely doing it because the US Gov requires them to do it.
       
      There is no end of paranoia.  It is a mental defect that only gets worse with time and the US Gov has it, big-time.  They are almost hysterical about tracking money and this IS getting worse with time, not better.  They use drugs and terrorism as the current excuses for this money tracking but we all need to understand that if both terrorism and drugs disappeared tomorrow, the tracking of money would not end.  Again, this is not about money but about control and governments do not give up control unless it is wrested from their cold dead hands.
       
      There is another aspect to all this and it also ties in with control.  All governments want to eliminate cash and go to a completely digital form of money.  This is the ultimate in control, so, of course, the banksters are all for it too.  In order to sell us on the idea of digital only money, they must first teach us that cash is inconvenient and basically a pain in the neck to deal with.  Then, they offer us a solution that ends all of these nagging problems (that they created).  Nothing succeeds quite like convincing people that a bad idea is actually in their best interest and this is a great example.
       
      There is a paragraph on Internet that deals with the history of money and I will paraphrase it here:  First, there were silver and gold coins that were used as money.  Then came paper receipts for silver and gold that could be exchanged for metals.  Then came paper receipts that were backed by gold and silver but that could not be exchanged for them.  Then came paper that was not backed by silver or gold (current scenario).  Finally, digital currency arrived that did away with paper.  There is a progression here from real value to perceived real value to perceived value to no real value whatever.  This is how a con game works and the elimination of metallic money and then paper money is part and parcel to one of the great cons, if not THE greatest, of all time.
       

    • And this is what our elected loser was pondering:
      At tonight’s State-Of-The-Union Address, O’Loser will announce an executive order that raises the minimum wage for those working on any new federal contracts to $10.10 an hour.
       
      This means that the cost of new federal contracts will increase.  But then again, they just print the money they pay the contractors with, don’t they?

    • @Mammoth
       
      “O’Loser will announce an executive order that raises the minimum wage for those working on any new federal contracts to $10.10 an hour.”
       
      What?  Not $16.66 an hour?  Somehow, that seems more appropriate.  X-[
       

  2. “In 2012 I took our 2 IRAs and set up a Self Directed IRA.  We invested 100% of the  funds into gold and silver and hold these two pensions plans personally and in full compliance with the IRA.”
    @AGXIIK- How do you legally do this?  I thought the IRA custodian had to hold the assets?

    • Goldfinger and Mikeyj80
      The idea of a Self Directed IRA has been around for at least 10 years.  3 years ago when I started researching about this subject it took me about a year to find someone to set this up.  The Dollar Vigilante has a system which can help you accomplish a SDIRA
      This was the process for me.  Before I go into that section Doc and I worked on having Silver Doctors take on a client relationship for SDIRA but their attorney suggested that SD would be subject to too great a liability if someone screwed up once the SDIRA was set up
      1.  You move your present IRA or 401k to a new fiduciary. In my case it was Suntrust Bank in New Mexico. They have a department specifically set up for this system and alert people to filing requirements
      2.  The Dollar Vigilante helped set up a Nevada-based LLC that acts as the recipient of funds from the Fiduciary
      3.  The LLC opens a checking account to receive funds
      4. Once funds are received the LLC buys precious metals
      5. Once the PMs are received the owner of the LLC and IRA moves the Precious metals is a segregated storage. 
      I use a personal safe as my segregation, opening the safe once a year to inventory the PMs, consisting of American Gold and Silver Eagles.  I calculate the value of the PMs and send the value as of December 31 of the prior ending year to Suntrust.
      I maintain the continuity of the LLC annually as Nevada requires an annual fee.  Suntrust charges me about $300 to manage the residual balance of the IRA and provide reporting to the IRS
      I chose the segregated safe instead of a safe deposit bank.   The legalities of my holding personallyhas been vetted by my CPA and the IRS rule book.  It appears that I am on solid ground in this and have been in the system going on 3 years.

    • @AGXIIK
       
      “Suntrust charges me about $300 to manage the residual balance of the IRA and provide reporting to the IRA”
       
      That would be reporting to the IRS not the IRA.  I spotted this because I do it too sometimes despite the best of intentions.

    • @AGXIIK >>>Two words for pension plan confiscation:
      Rule # 1: If you don’t hold it, you don’t own
      Rule # 2: If you hold it, MOLON LABE!You hit on the Golden Rule here AG … TPTB have done most of the legwork in the past and present confiscations of wealth using a ‘type of consent’ … ie, setup the bear trap and wait for your victim to step in it first.
       
      It is much like the CEDE & CO setup at the DTC we have been talking about … all Privately held Securities by attrition have found their way into the Bear Trap and are only ‘Privately held’ to those who stupidly think they still legally own them. You can still request your Certificates via your broker from the DTC/CEDE & CO, but if you ever want to trade them you are days behind anyone else in the market who wants to sell and you have extra fees to pay … so 99%+ of all holders have PLACED THEMSELVES in the Bear Trap, without the physical ownership of certificates ever having been technically cancelled. The point you make with Pensions is just the same, and TPTB will simply turn around once the issue gets air time (word of mouth not the controlled media of course) and say that it was the Holders fault that they didn’t enact a regime of self-management … blame the victim 101.
      Nice article, Pension Funds and other forms of Retiree Savings are the backbone of an economy, and they barely ever get a mention in the Age Of Mega Robbery we live in. If a Country/Countries in the West cannot control their economies in order to maintain wealth for those who cannot work anymore (not to mention those STILL working) then Western Civilization is FINISHED. This is what held us apart from totally corrupt 3rd world countries, and sadly we have become no different.
       
      If the …
      –> Fed controls the Interest Rate by Buying our own Bonds and also the housing bubble with MBS’s.
      –> The Pension Funds are appropriated by TPTB at their pleasure and directed to whichever Casino they please to be lost.
      –> CEDE & CO have legal ownership of all Private Held Securities in the country ready for a lock down and complete appropriation.
      –> Banks can ‘legally’ bail in depositors at will and limit withdrawals by order of the Executive.
      –> And IF Gold and Silver are once again confiscated when the market crash comes just like FDR days…
      … then there is NO Free Market … THEN WE SIMPLY LIVE IN A COMMUNIST SOCIETY WITH A HANDFUL OF PRIVATE BANKS WORKING FOR AN EXECUTIVE REGIME TO CENTRALLY MANAGE WHO LIVES AND WHO DIES.
      Communism + Fascism = UpShitCreekIsm

    • @Dirt:  Yeah, it will work quite smoothly, kinda like the social security fund.  You know, all nicely packed with $$$, gaining interest, and waiting for withdrawals by us old timers. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAH LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • @Ed_B
       
      I’d say anyone in my age group is a screwed pooch as far as SS payments go. 
      The 50 and under crowd… and that is a Best Case Scenario.
       
      I like RTR (Bix Weir’s) theory. After the “Big Reset” they will pay us all off with GOLD.
       
      That is infinitely more likely than us getting our SS that we should be getting. 
      But then again, 1% is infinitely more likely than 0% LOL!

    • @undeRGRound
       
      “I’d say anyone in my age group is a screwed pooch as far as SS payments go.  The 50 and under crowd… and that is a Best Case Scenario.”
       
      You could very well be right.  It is pretty obvious to one and all that both SS and Medicare are both in a lot of financial trouble and that they are not economically viable for the long term.  They are both bleeding cash significantly faster than it is coming in.  Every time some commission or congressional group comes out with an estimate of the year in which these funds run out, it is ALWAYS sooner than the previous estimate.  This is typical of situations wherein something is not just changing but is accelerating.  A few years ago, we were told that SS was viable until 2071, then 2049, then 2035, then 2024, and now it is 2017.  Well, 2017 is not all that far off, folks, yet the “leaders” of this country are still sucking their thumbs over this issue with no solution of any kind being attempted.  What IS happening is that they continue to prepare us for a large reduction in SS benefits via saying things like, “Even if the SS fund runs out of money, there is still enough coming in to pay 75% of the owed benefits”.  I am sure that most of us have heard or read such statements.  I see such comments as complete surrender on the part of those who are paid to FIX problems like this and not merely note their occurrence.  Hell, we can ALL note their occurrence,  so what do we need these so-called “leaders” for?  If they are not leading, they are totally useless and right now, they are not leading.  Maybe that is why their approval rating is in the single digits?
       
      As to the 50 and under crowd, yep, the burden for paying into this system vs. what you will get out of it will fall most heavily upon those who have the most time to prepare for the financial shock that this will cause.  Those of us who are in our 60s or later have no time to prepare for this, so will not have a lot of the burden put on us.  Maybe that is as it should be, maybe it isn’t.  I would favor a more equal sharing of this burden IF the result was that the system was changed into something that is sustainable for the long haul and not just patched up with chewing gum and bailing wire to run a few more years before it has an inevitable collapse.  If we’re gonna have a collapse, let’s just get it over with instead of dragging it out.  If a tooth needs pulling, PULL IT! … don’t just pull and twist on it for hours or days of excruciating pain with nothing really accomplished.
       
      “I like RTR (Bix Weir’s) theory. After the “Big Reset” they will pay us all off with GOLD.”
       
      Well, I quit believing in the tooth fairy a long long time ago… and this idea smacks of tooth-fairy economics, if ever one did.  The next time that they “pay us all off with GOLD” will be the very first, IMO.  Those who have gold do not merely hand it over to anyone else, ever.  Do you have any gold?  Are you ready to give it away?  Didn’t think so.  ;-)    I can’t see this happening under ANY condition.  I dunno, maybe I am just cynical about things like that.  If it has happened before, I must have missed it.
       

    • @Ed_B
      RE: tooth fairy 
      I hear ya, Bro… I’m NOT holding my breath for that one. BUT! (and this is a GREAT BIG BUTT!) 
      The only thing that makes me think this has even that 1% chance of happening, is that any politicians 
      LEFT STANDING will have to prove their worthiness, and “pay us BACK” (not “giving us” ANYTHING)
      is to take our accrued SS payments and dole it out in GOLD. It makes sense “within the RTR theory” 
      and if it pans out, I will GLADLY say “I told ya so!” but like I said, not gonna hold my breath. 

    • @undeRGRound
       
      “The only thing that makes me think this has even that 1% chance of happening, is that any politicians LEFT STANDING will have to prove their worthiness, and “pay us BACK” (not “giving us” ANYTHING) is to take our accrued SS payments and dole it out in GOLD.”
       
      That looks to me to be so far down my list of possibilities that being killed by a meteor is WAY up above it.  First, how much gold do you and Bix think there is?  Most on here think that the US gold hoard has been frittered away in the same manner as ALL other money these jazbos get their paws on.  If gold were $100,000 an oz. I don’t think that the US Gov has enough to refund all of the money that people still working have paid in, let alone us retired folks.
       
      As I have said in other posts, I find Bix wildly entertaining but I am not gonna bet a nickel on any of his predictions coming true.  His record in that department is about even with Bernanke’s.  lol
       
      “…if it pans out, I will GLADLY say “I told ya so!” but like I said, not gonna hold my breath.”
       
      OK, you do that.  I will look forward to it!  :-)
       

    • What? You haven’t read GOLDEN SECRETS on the Road to Roota website, @Ed_B
      I’ll PM you a link, so as to avoid this post in moderation LOL
       
      Don’t get too excited and hold your breath though…  :D
      If you read this, you will see how much Gold Me & Bix think there is (still in U$ hands)

    • @undeRGRound
       
      I have browsed the RTR web site a number of time but am unable to work up a lot of interest in it.  Time is valuable and fleeting, so I tend to spend it where most of my interest lies.  :-)
       

  3. CDL  that’s mean   LOL   Bwhahahaha  Come into my parlor said the spider to the fly.
    Heads up on the news in the AM
    HRH Queen Elizabeth is down to her last $1,000,000   WTF. She owns the freaking country!!!
    It was said her advisors were irresponsible for the royal purse.  Huh.  Goldman Sucks is going to face some serious music
    She’s worth $3 trillion dollars—or is it $3 billion  Who cares.  Calling London Whale  Where’ my money???
    HRH still has nukes.  And Beefeaters. And the RCMP without horses.  And the City of London
    Gold?  Not so much
    As for IRA’s built on UST. Hmmmm Why does this sound like a privatized Social Security plan.
    Only with this one the govenment starts these people out young and then rips them off.
    Just like present social security
    Hey barri, where’s that lock box?
     

    • @AGXIIK
      The rubbish about the Queen being down to 1mill pounds is a complete PR exercise to keep the people behind a ‘people’s monarch’ who is feeling the crunch like everyone else… total PR window dressing.
      This is simply her Reserve Fund from the Civil List payments build up over the last Century. Her Duchy Of Lancaster payments have been up Millions, and Duchy of Cornwall (For Prince Charles) is also up.
      She does not spend any of HER OWN money in maintaining the palaces, the majority of which are National Trust managed anyway, also the Civil List payments were rolled up into a new Sovereign Support Grant, which was touted in the Media as another Cut in her budget, but it turns out that the new arrangement was actually MORE beneficial than the Civil List was because it was structured to inflation better, but the Media reads from the Script. UK Media are bigger whores than US Media, especially when it comes to the Monarchy.
       
      This media circus is simply misdirectional, because Her REAL wealth is managed through the BOE NOMINEES accounting wormhole created in the BOE when it was apparently ‘nationalized’ in the 1950′s, and lets not forget that without the Queen there would be no Ancient Liberties/Charter for the City Of London Corporation (Square Mile), so if the Royal Palace gets closed, she can always shack up in the Lord Mayor of The City Of Londons Palace, and I’m sure he would insist that she does … without the Monarchy the Square Mile has no protection, so as they say, the Mafioso work together when they need to, in order to protect the franchise as a whole.
       
      A small slideshow of the cost of the monarchy for anyone who doesn’t believe HRH PR Bullshit :P
      http://www.republic.org.uk/valueformoneymyth.pdf
      A little excerpt below;

    • Good thought Harry  If gold and silver went really low then taking 100% of the plan assets in a retirement distribution would remove them from the SDIRA.  If the taxes were low enough, then the precious metals would be freed from the IRA trap. Yes, an IRA is a mouse trap but there are ways to play the long game.  I plan to leave them there for a long time,  maybe 8 years or so.
       
      MaryB   yes, this data is provided to the Fiduciary but not the IRS.   The accounting is to verify that the assets are still in place in the IRA   The IRS does not know where they are kept, however.  That is my business.  It could be a safe deposit box or a safe offsite.  So long as it is in a place that I know and can access.

  4. I am very angry.

    I always tought that the “Anglo-American” system for retirement plans was better.

    Let me explain the difference :
    - Anglo-American” retirement  system (“Capitalization“): you save money in a plan (401 k etc.. I don’t know exactly), this money is store on an account, it’s yours, and when you retire this money is for you, eventualy with interest bonus (correct me if I am wrong).
    - Socialist country like France  (“Sharing“) : Every month some money is kept by goverment from my salary, but this money is not saved for me in the future, this money is directly used to pay pensions for actual retirees. We pay for the retirees and we hope our chidrens will pay for us. I always hated this system and never believed about it’s future, because it cannot survive to demographic and social variations. We are completly in the nightmare. When this system was setup, 10 workers paid for 1 retiree (10:1 ratio), now the ratio is below 1:2 and will go to 1:1. Don’t need to have an astrophysic doctorate to understand that it’s a dead-born system.
     
    And now I see that the “capitalization” system is not more secure that our stupid “sharing” system. I am angry because I already guess that 25 years ago. In fact, in addition of our “sharing” system (that pay retirees more or less 50% of their last salary), we can choose to pay for optional “capitalization” saving plans and I never had a strong faith on that (25 years ago I didn’t know why, maybe my nature, may be a lucky guess)

    So, for the funny story, I chosed to invest in some real estate that I rent (” that will be my retirement plan”), but now even this third option is hazardous : taxes are more and more crazy and, for example,  C. Lagarde suggest a 10% tax on all asset for European citizens (among other desesperate shameful ideas).

    We are surrounded. MERDE !

    • @MaxSilver
      The ‘capitalization’ system was just a lie, because our very system of Fiat Capital contains more Debt than real Assets, so this means that all OFFICIAL FUTURE DREAMS (ie retirement capital) will be forfeit as soon as the inevitable house of cards collapses. All the whilst you are dreaming you are working harder for The Man.
       
      The only difference between the French and US system is that the French is at least more truthful and openly proclaims its bankrupt nature and un-sustainability. The whole paradigm breaks down when one asks the question “What in the Modern World IS actually ‘Capital’?”. If ‘Capital’ only exists as a number on a screen/statement whilst the current ponzi system continues to operate, then what the hell is the difference between the French and US systems except a different Accountancy pseudo-philosophy?
       
      As Morpheus said to Neo in the Matrix “Wake Up Neo, and follow the White Rabbit”

    • @ WNBS

      Yes, you’re right. However, don’t dream. People here are not aware about the bankrupt nature and un-sustainability of the system. Only few people like me have a clear (unfortunately) view about what happens. Even my stepfather (high executive banker, now retiree) don’t believe me when I speak about that.

      Most of people still continue to believe about the “wealth state” and government action. However, to be honest, more and more people now start to have some doubts. Are they doing something to prepare? No, absolutely nothing.
      I spoke about my fears last week during a dinner with friends, 6 couples we invited joined us, they listened me politely, but no one prepare anything; they spend a lot for enjoy life but have no saving, and do not intend to do so. “Don’t say I didn’t warned you”. Like AG said, people have a bias of normality. And they don’t want quit their comfort zone.

      I’m not an extreme survivalist or prepeer,  building a nuclear proof shelter, but I started to do the minimum : secure my home reinforcing doors and windows, alarm, CCTV system (12 IP cams), store food for 1 month, start gun practice, have some cash and silver etc… The next things to do : find a second-hand electric generator and a water tank for rain storage

    • @MaxSilver >>>I spoke about my fears last week during a dinner with friends, 6 couples we invited joined us, they listened me politely, but no one prepare anything; they spend a lot for enjoy life but have no saving, and do not intend to do so. “Don’t say I didn’t warned you”. Like AG said, people have a bias of normality. And they don’t want quit their comfort zone.
      I know, it gets me down too. If I had a dollar for every time I had experienced this same scenario I could bail out the Fed. Human Ignorance and Normalcy Bias is a paradigm that is impossible to change with the Human Species … I am coming to believe solely in Fate and Destiny, and that the things that are happening are quite unavoidable, because our fellow man is simply incapable (Unfortunately) of questioning power, and comprehending complex swindles … Democracy (Mob Rule in practice) seems to be the enabling factor, and since I have not found a better method of Govt out there it seems we are screwed whichever way the dice roll … and TPTB know this, but they also must be scared; absolute dictatorships many times backfire on the rich and powerful.

  5. Here in Europe, we are not able to take control of our pension plans. We get to choose which fund to pay premium to (by choosing an employer), but those funds are not allowed to take on meaningful quantities of geld/silver on their balance sheets. Too risky, after all.
    European workers and pensioners have even fewer chances of prosperity than those in the US. I hope you guys use your rights wisely. I am forced to consider my full pension plan nul and void. No way that by the time I retire, there is any useful purchase power left. pension can’t keep up with official inflation, let alone real inflation. And, they will be pillaged out of control to save the banks and government from the inevitable.

  6. Here in the UK, anyone in employment without a pension plan is now automatically enrolled onto a scheme. Individuals can opt out, but this process is purposefully made difficult, presumably in the hope that folks will just give up and allow their pay to be deducted. Worse still, even if a person opts out, he or she will be opted back in again after three years – and, if necessary, every three years after that. In other words, in order to stay out of it, it is now necessary to opt out every few years. What is this scheme, if not a blueprint for future pension plundering?
     
    You know, for me, the most comforting thing about phyzz is that the bastards don’t know I have it.
     
    Keep stacking, American cousins, and keep the faith. Our patience will be rewarded.

    • The UK government’s plans to coax older savers into giving up their deposits in exchange for a promise that government can offer better returns than leaving same cash with the ‘professional’ private financial sector that they made us bail-out, leads me to believe that this could well an attempt to implicitly seize the savings of the gullible, before more draconian mandatory bail-ins are introduced. They could not propose such plan after a bail-in, so seems to make sense why such a ‘generous’ offer, in a time of determined austerity, is on the table at this point in time. Or maybe it’s just the introduction of a vote winning policy, given that an election is due next year. Either way, I don’t trust them.
      http://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/pensions-top-plan-offer-160018778.html?bcmt_s=m

    • @Escritor @RoughRook
      These bastards (in US, UK, Europe, most everywhere else) are going to take the lot. And when they’ve taken all the liquid credit, they will come physically for any personal hard assets. This is going to be like Poland during WWII … plundered every way to Sunday, then your clothes stolen off of your back, and then kicked into a ditch.
       
      Get anything you can OUT of pension/retirement plans, and stop paying whatever you can if it is mandatory, (definitely don’t voluntarily contribute) because is simply does not exist and never will until you MATERIALIZE it IN THE PRESENT into something you can see that is solid … and even then you need to be able to protect it.

  7. Escritor you hit it on the head.  In fact, even that you have it, it can be hid in a hole.  It is like land, but not taxed yearly until you’ve purchased it twice.  It’s like a nice car, but not taxed yearly and requires maintenance.  It will not MAKE lots of money, but is a viable savings plan.  You want to pass it down to your kids?  Screw the 50% inheritance tax! What a blood thirsty system that is! Taxed on a lifetimes (already taxed) savings, that NOT EVEN ON YOUR DEATH BED can you pass it down to your children.  BUT if your children were WISE. They could spend it a little at a time, staying under the radar (even if it were worth millions!) until the blood thirsty tax system changed to coax money out of hiding.
    Can’t hide a house or a car, a jet, a savings plan… they’ll take whatever they can, and make it legal before doing it!  If it weren’t for Gold / Silver, I’d probably have hung myself or revolted like a cornered dog.
    Worst case scene, the richest of the rich have a legal loophole for their money to hide… you just need to discover what it is that the masses have not.  Before they burn down the house, they will have created a legal loophole “exit” for themselves to escape!  You just need to figure out what it is!
    For example: In the U.S.  You can purchase AND sell as many Gold/Silver eagles without limit and NOT have to claim it on your taxes.  If you purchase Canadian coinage (we got some love for them down here) the number is 10,000.00 worth of coins bought/sold per year.  If you purchase any other governments coins (or sell) it is reported to the IRS.
    There’s a rich mans tax loophole right there, and you bet, the day it’s gone, there will be another set up to replace it. (after all, the laws are set in place by those who buy off the politicians, so you know there’s an escape plan… well… in the U.S.)

    • @Shamus001
       
      “You can purchase AND sell as many Gold/Silver eagles without limit and NOT have to claim it on your taxes.”
       
      Really?  My info on that is different.  My info says that ANY profits made on gold and silver and reported are subject to a 28% tax, same as other “collectibles”.  Can you provide a reference for your idea that gold and silver profits are not taxable?  Would LOVE to see that!
       
      What the really rich do is set up foundations for their wealth that maintains family control and pilfering privileges of the foundation money over many years.  It is like a trust.  They control it but, technically, they do not own it.  The difference is minuscule but the results are not.
       
      Info can be found at:
       

      http://ownthedollar.com/2011/02/required-to-report-irs-gold-profits/

      http://news.coinupdate.com/irs-and-government-reporting-requirements-for-coin-and-bullion-dealers-0353/

      http://www.irs.gov

    • @Shamus001
       
      Thanks for the link.  That is some good info.  I have bookmarked that page for future reference.  
       
      But… we seem to have a different view of this issue.  My view was from a tax-owed position while yours is from a tax-reported position.  Whether or not the sale is reported, the tax is still due.  Yes, one can, um… forget… to pay the tax, but I can assure you that the IRS does not accept that as a valid reason for not paying it.  On the other hand, if they do not know about a transaction, they cannot tax it.  It’s quite a gamble, actually.  Heads or tails?  Freedom or 20 years in jail?  ;-)
       
      One thing that I found curious is that the sale of Austrian gold philharmonic coins is not reported for any amount while Canadian gold maples are reported for amounts of 25 oz. or more.  This is not a purity issue, so I wonder what possible difference explains this.  I am also wondering about the method of payment.  If someone goes into a large LCS and has 10 gold 1-oz. maples to sell, that is below the 25 oz. reporting threshold but at current prices or higher for gold it is above the $10,000 reporting limit of banking activities.  Unless the LCS pays in cash, this sale will be reported by the coin shop on their banking records and / or their tax filing statement.  
       
      This all seems a slippery slope.  Caution is strongly advised.  Freedom is more precious than money!
       

    • @Ed_B
      Bullion is one thing but is it the Face Value of PM Coins that is reportable, or is it the weight in Gold/Silver converted to Fiat??
      My take on it is that if I buy something from a retailer worth $100 with 5 Silver Dollars and the Retailer accepts it as payment, then the product has been technically sold for $5 ??? not $100. I’m sure a Silver Dollar is Legal Tender and technically only a $1 coin, not that many people recognize it even as Legal Tender.
      It is a slippery slope indeed, because the status of PM Coinage as regulated by ‘Laws’ is just too neglected and obscure, almost as if the Law left PM Coins behind in history and simply forgot that they are a medium of exchange. Just like the Law left behind the ratification of the 16th Amendment problem and will still beat down your door and arrest you if the IRS goon squad targets you for ‘legal’ pillage.

    • @WillNotBeASlave
       
      “Bullion is one thing but is it the Face Value of PM Coins that is reportable, or is it the weight in Gold/Silver converted to Fiat??”
       
      My understanding is that it is the specific number of ounces of gold (and silver?) that is reportable.  The IRS does not care about “face value” because in the coin arena, a coin with only a fraction of an oz. of gold or silver in it still could be a very expensive and rare collectible and they would want the max in tax for any profits made on it.  Any number of people have tried to use the face value of gold and silver coins to greatly lower the price of various items and even labor but the IRS always disallows that and goes by what the market value is for the coins exchanged.  If they accepted the idea that face value matters, then anyone selling a $100 item for 5 silver dollars would be required to sell that same item to other buyers for $5 in paper.
       
      I’m not sure that any coin is technically “legal tender”.  US banknotes always have printed on them that they are “legal tender for all debts, public and private”.  Coins do not have this on them but perhaps their legal “tenderness” is implied?
       
      “…almost as if the Law left PM Coins behind in history and simply forgot that they are a medium of exchange.”
       
      Very few deals of significance are ever carried out in exchange for coins, so this is probably one of those things that is just too small in value to be worth the time to thrash it out.
       
      “…and will still beat down your door and arrest you if the IRS goon squad targets you for ‘legal’ pillage.”
       
      Yes, they might do that but they would be WELL advised to be careful about such things.  A great many people have had about all the Gov BS they can stand, so there is no telling how such agents of plunder would be greeted.  It is likely to be either with a healthy “Hail, Caesar!” or with a very unhealthy hail of lead.  Remember… the actions of ALL tyrants are first made legal and then carried out by their goons, so it is better if men and women of good conscience follow that rather than any corrupted laws that are put forth to strangle us.
       

    • @Ed_B

      As regards the Face Value, and Legal Tender, as far as I know there was never a Law passed to retract PM Coins as being Legal Tender, and the Face Value was only on there in the first place because they were Legal Tender.
      Like I said, the Law just left it behind and everyone adopted the Fed Fiat by default because they are idiots and want to be slaves I guess.
      And as far as the IRS stipulating that it is Market Value of the coin in question, I guess this is just a case of the un-ratified 16th Amendment and its attached statutes being used to nullify PM Coin trade dynamics, because this stipulation assumes that the Coin is NOT Legal Tender and that the Face Value is no longer relevant … which is just one of the reasons why the abomination of the 16th Amendment was never ratified because its dictates interfere with many other aspects of the Constitution, and legally it is an abortion (ie, Legal Money should be ONLY Gold and Silver … never repealed, just ignored).
      The Fed and the 16th are simply illegitimate and are dictatorial additions that should simply not be respected … but people love their Fiat, and even though they hate Tax they still Love their Fiat, one comes with the other like heat is to flame.
       
      Invisible chains of bondage encompass the world, and they emanate from DC and NYC … but many flow through the City Of London before attaching themselves to slave plantation nations.

    • @WillNotBeASlave
       
      “Like I said, the Law just left it behind and everyone adopted the Fed Fiat by default because they are idiots and want to be slaves I guess.”
       
      Perhaps.  In most cases, I would say that people simply do not think about the same things that we here on SD and other hard money web sites do.  Junk metal coins are of little consequence and most Americans have never even seen a silver coin, let alone a gold one, so what they do not know they do not miss.  But they will.  Hard money is like truth.  It WILL out!
       
      “… never repealed, just ignored).”
       
      This seems to be the way that unconstitutional deeds are done.  This is pretty good proof, by the way, of the fact that the Dems and Repubs are all on the same team and only appear to differ in public to provide a “struggle” between left and right.  It is a distraction that occupies the minds of the people, rather than REAL issues.  The formation of the Fed and Roosevelt’s gold grab were not constitutional, IMO, but they were never challenged in federal court so remained as fact, if not law.  Nothing in the US Constitution authorizes either the president or the congress to hand any of their power over to a 3rd party or group.  Yet that is exactly what happened with the power to “coin money”, which, as you correctly point out, were gold and silver and clearly specified in the US Constitution as such by weight, purity, and equivalent ratio of silver to gold.  IIRC, that was 15 ozs. of pure silver to 1 oz. of pure gold.  That meant that it took 20 silver dollars with .7734 oz. of pure silver to equal one double eagle $20 gold coin with 0.9675 oz. of pure gold.
       
      “Invisible chains of bondage encompass the world, and they emanate from DC and NYC … but many flow through the City Of London before attaching themselves to slave plantation nations.”
       
      Indeed they do but this is only invisible to sheeple.  Stackers, on the other hand, are WELL aware of this.  :-)
       

    • @Ed_B >>>Yet that is exactly what happened with the power to “coin money”, which, as you correctly point out, were gold and silver and clearly specified in the US Constitution as such by weight, purity, and equivalent ratio of silver to gold.  IIRC, that was 15 ozs. of pure silver to 1 oz. of pure gold.  That meant that it took 20 silver dollars with .7734 oz. of pure silver to equal one double eagle $20 gold coin with 0.9675 oz. of pure gold.
      I love it when you talk dirty :P real numbers that mean something … ahh, the good old days … weight … purity … founded in Physics and Chemistry … tangibility … I’m getting all nostalgic.

    • @WillNotBeASlave
       
      “I love it when you talk dirty  real numbers that mean something … ahh, the good old days … weight … purity … founded in Physics and Chemistry … tangibility … I’m getting all nostalgic.”
       
      LOL!  Yep, reality can be… intoxicating… especially after we are fed a lot of baloney via the MSM and hear it being echoed by the talking heads and sheeple.  Reminds me of the old “no lie is too big to be believed if it is repeated often enough”.  Fortunately, we have some great web sites around where TRUTH is still the goal and good discussions can be had to help bring it out and spread it around.    :P

    • Yes.  My thought is that it is untouchable by those to whom it rightfully belongs, such as those who paid into it, but it is not untouchable by the US Gov.  They can pilfer just about anything that they can get away with and it is not about right vs. wrong.  It is only about the number of votes involved.  Belonging to a small but reasonably affluent group puts a great big target on your funds.

    • @polarxena
       
      Sounds just like my union’s supplemental pension. It’s technically a 401A and relies on a few extra rules. 
      I am about down to this: Hiring a great Tax Attorney and suing their a$$. They keep changing the rules 
      (moving the goal posts) and locking it down tighter. The “death panel” as I call it, has 3 members of the 
      local, and 3 members of the contractor’s association, (NECA) and they hired the NECA Attorney who is 
      a complete SHILL for TPTB. He makes Jim Carrey in the first part of  LIAR-LIAR look like an Honest Lawyer!
      These type pensions are indeed, totally locked up. I may have more info for you in the future…

  8. mikeyj80  Yes   other asset classes can be purchased via a Self Directed IRA.  Off the top of my head you can buy stocks, bonds, property, notes and business stock  Check with benetrends or your CPA on this
    Edb  One key factor about selling PMs to a dealer is that there are threshholds of their reporting requirements
    American Gold eagles do not require reporting if sold in any amount.  It is the responsibility of the ower to report
    That is a line one crosses based on their own belief systems re taxes on real money
    The IRA typo error on my post magically corrected itself.  Amazing what technology can do.

    • @AGXIIK
       
      “One key factor about selling PMs to a dealer is that there are threshholds of their reporting requirements American Gold eagles do not require reporting if sold in any amount.  It is the responsibility of the ower to report That is a line one crosses based on their own belief systems re taxes on real money”
       
      Money is only taxed IF the Fed Gov knows you have it.  None of the under-the-table stuff is taxed.  That sort of activity is frowned upon and it is possible to get 20+ years in the gray-bar hotel to reconsider your past dealings.  Not my idea of a good time.
       
      In banking, $10k is the magic number for most reporting requirements.  I know that this is different for coin dealers per one of the sites I referenced above.  The amount seems to differ based on the items sold and when the sales take place. Selling privately or in small amounts is what people do for untaxable profits.  This is not recommended, as the penalties can be severe.  IRS agents have been known to pose as buyers on Craig’s List to see if the seller reports the sale.  If not, GOTCHA!
       
      “The IRA typo error on my post magically corrected itself.  Amazing what technology can do.”
       
      Indeed so.  It’a also amazing how helpful a proof-reader can be.  ;-)
       
      All this brings up an interesting question, though.  If the SHTF and the dollar collapses, then there shouldn’t be any cap gains on the sales of gold or silver.  There would be no way to figure them without the dollar to use as a yardstick.  If a new dollar came out and replaced the old one, that would pose its own set of problems as far as calculating any cap gains.  Besides, silver used as barter won’t be taxed if there is no taxing authority left.  Then, we have the great reset and all its attendant financial differences.  I’m thinking that silver used locally to buy gas and groceries will not generate any interest outside the local area.
       
       

  9. @Ed_B:  No, I’m getting my SS.  What I was referring to is that the fund was set up to ENSURE those eligible would get their $$$ by placing the funds received into it, drawing interest, and growing to pay “us”.  But, of course, like every other pot of money, the government  pillaged it and left it empty. Now the money we get comes from who-knows-where???

    • @silverrrrr
       
      OK, good.  I see what you mean and agree.  LBJ was the guy who sniffed out this honey pot and started borrowing from it but every president since has failed to stop it, so they are all equally guilty of generational theft IMO.  This IS taxation of future generations who cannot vote to stop it, so have no representation.  It ought to be illegal.  Too bad that the US Gov did not simply buy gold and silver with this money and store it in a large well-guarded vault somewhere.  They could then sell it off as needed to pay benefits and SS would not now be in any financial trouble whatever if they had.  My guess is that the US Gov is either borrowing or printing the money to pay the beneficiaries now.
       
      Bush wanted to replace SS with a national 401k system similar to that in Chile, which is working exceptionally well.  Chile would have been bankrupted by their version of SS but saw the S coming towards the fan and decided to DO something about it.  They did and it is a MUCH better system than they had before or that we still have.  But, nooooo, the lib-tards wouldn’t have anything to do with that.  Having people OWN their own retirement plan just wasn’t sufficiently dependent for them.  SS is a plan that only a Gov-tard could love.  You can pay a couple of hundred thou into it, die before receiving any back, and your family gets a whopping $255 benefit.  WTF?  Yes, some people get more back than they put in, eventually, but that is poor planning on the part of the Gov people who set this up.  We’ve only known for about 40 years that the baby boom generation was coming, yet they did jack-all in preparation for its arrival.  Not sure why this group got extended from its original size, though.  When I was a kid in the 1950s, only those born in 1945-6 were considered “baby boomers” because they were the kids of returning WW-II GIs, yet this group got enlarged clear up to 1964 for some unknown reason.  Shrug.
       

  10. willnotbeaslave   I dont own any stocks or bonds. My exit from the casino was two years ago and I’ve been clean and sober since.  When Warren Pollock read the fine print on the Fidelity statements it was clear to him and Ann Barnhardt that this firm and other brokerages were rehypothecating the shares.  With DTC and CEDE also part of that recognition and theme it became clear that I was 100% at risk.  That was for the non tax preferred equivalent of my portfolio.  That was removed from Fidelity.  In another year or so I found that back door strategy of the SDIRA and that allowed us to fully exit the paper world.   While there are risks to owning nearly anything when the thieves roam the canyons of Wall Street and Pennsylvania Avenue, short of bugging out of the country or burying the phyzz 8 feet deep, we are comfortable that we are generally under the radar, not offering ourselves as low hanging fruit
    My intel and research hopefully keeps me a day early on any plans TPTB might have to come and take something of ours.  The ripple effect of confiscation would become pretty easy to discern before things got really dicey  From that tipping point I have plan B, C and D.  There there is that deep lake out yonder.

    • As a FYI, Vanguard does not do this so it is possible to invest without this as a possible threat to one’s finances.  Also, if a person invests in certain things, hypothecation is necessary for that to work, such as when shorting.  When one shorts, one borrows shares from someone else who owns them, hoping to sell them now, then buy them back later at a lower price, and pocketing the difference.  If the shares are not borrowed, where would they come from?  If the brokerage owns them, then they could serve as a pool of shares that can be borrowed when shorting but if not, then they are borrowed from those who have them.  Note that shorting and borrowing shares places an obligation on the borrower to return / replace those shares at some point.  This is similar to borrowing money from a bank.  You HAVE to pay it back.  Not that shorting, futures, or options appeal to me.  They are too risky for my taste.
       
      With the market up about 28% last year, it is good to have some money working there and getting some of that yield.  I have not been fully invested for a couple of years but even with 25% of my money invested, it is still doing better than any fixed yield investment.  Some stocks, such as NFLX and BIDU have done VERY well over the past couple of years.  There is more than one way to build a nice stack.  :-)
       

    • @Ed_B >>>As a FYI, Vanguard does not do this so it is possible to invest without this as a possible threat to one’s finances.
      The CEDE & CO issue makes the policy of Brokerages Null and Void. All the Fed has to do is direct DTC to disallow trading and then anything trapped in CEDE & CO is technically Fed Funds held in Trust for a customer who has no access to their proceeds or even the Capital … they can simply do what they please at that point, but of course this would require a 1929 Black Swan, which we all know is coming.
       
      Since almost every retirement investment comes down to a Security at the DTC, technically fund managers and brokers etc.. are a useless middleman in this situation who cannot protect their customers.

    • SEE GUYS AND GIRLS, THIS IS HOW IT’S DONE. ED_B AND AGXIIK 
      are both TKOB (takin’ care of bidness). AG got everything at once, and ED_B is siphoning it all out a bit at a time to minimize his tax burden. 
      “Letting it Ride” is very dangerous. But some of us are forced into this by restrictive F’ed Govt. rules and plans. If you have the out, TAKE IT! 
      GTFO of the Stock and Bond Markets. Anyone who was able to get out before Nov. 2008 should be on high alert already. The same signs
      are back. It ain’t pretty. I’m putting my time into trying to free up a 401A which is like a 401K with none of the portability. SUCKS

    • @WillNotBeASlave
       
      If it really is as you say, then it is useless to continue playing any part of this game… not just the financial part but ALL of it.  It is over, the bad guys have won, and we all march off to the gas chambers, ovens, or whatever they have planned for us.  Somehow, I just have to think that this is not the case. Whether that response on my part is rational or not, I do not know, but I do know that it had better not be if there is to be any hope for a better future whatsoever… or ANY future, for that matter.
       

    • @Ed_B >>>If it really is as you say, then it is useless to continue playing any part of this game
      I’m not trying to say that everything is hopeless, there is always hope, but I guess the point I am making is that ALL Fiat ‘Assets’ in the US have now been placed in such centralized control of One Single Entity … the Fed … that a 1929 event will see a TOTAL appropriation and communistic management of these assets. I cannot see how it would be any different from good’ol Revelation mark of the beast scenario.
       
      So my point has always been to NEVER expect that after that 1929 Event to be getting ANY Value (ie, real trade into the retail market) from your Fiat Assets whatsoever because you will have to bend over and accept the raping from the Govt in order to even get scraps of your own ‘money’ … what one has to do is simple … buy as much material needs as possible and load up with Food, Silver and Gold and the Lead, so that you can at least trade with the like minded Rebels … because a Rebel is what you will be. Either a rape Victim or a Rebel. All I know is that I am going to die Free, and if that means being ripped limb from limb by a Govt viper squad or a Zombie hoard of Obama Supporters … so be it, RIP William Wallace!

    • “I’m not trying to say that everything is hopeless, there is always hope…”
       
      Sorry if I read that into your comments.  Sometimes it seems as if everyone is so depressed about these matters that it becomes contagious.
       
      Even during the dark days of the 1930s, SOME people were making a lot of money.  Many companies survived those days and went on to thrive.  So did their share prices.  There is a HUGE amount of complaining about how the 1930s went for average Americans.  I do not discount that one bit, as my own grand parents went through those days as young adults.  They well remembered those days and spoke to me often about what it was like back then and what they had to do to survive.  That said, however, the Great Depression also created MANY millionaires.  Primarily, these are the people who had a little money tucked away and who used it to buy incredibly cheap stocks… such as AT&T for 10 cents a share.  When the US economy recovered, those shares zoomed by many multiples.  Their stories do not fit the usual social narrative, however, so are not often told, either by “educators”, “historians”, or “authors”, all of whom supposedly are experts in this area of social and financial history.
       
      So, what happens if your darkest thoughts are not realized and stock shares retain and even increase in value?  Those who hold them will gain and perhaps a lot.  One of the best life-lessons I have learned is that the future is rarely ever as bright as we hope or as dark as we fear.  Because of this, asset allocation is still of considerable value.  Year 2013 was an excellent example of this with stock shares up almost 30% over-all, while PMs were down almost by the same amount.  I understand that 2013 was not TEOTWAWKI, but until someone can tell us with authority WHEN that will be, we have to go with what we know NOW.  I agree that we do need to keep in mind that cataclysmic things could happen and that if they do, all we know may well be flipped onto its head.  Still, holding multiple asset classes virtually always provides better insurance against disaster than being 100% in the wrong asset classes.  Also, if I have a good stack and a good amount of preps, then I can afford to look at any paper losses and shrug them off.  If PMs zoom up in value, they could easily make up those  paper losses.  Until then, however, I see value in paper products that others may not.  I can and will profit from them and I will use those profits to stack and prep.   I wish all my fellow stackers and preppers well.  We all have to follow what we see as the best course… and, so far, so good!  :-)
       

    • @Ed_B
      Your point about people who bought at the bottom post-crash 1930′s is well taken, but this is 80years on. The level of Financialization of not just the US but ALL world economies will make the coming disaster TERMINAL, whereas the 1930′s was recoverable because the problem was not so Global.
       
      As an example;
      As greater financial liberalisation has further deepened over the years, further increasing the phenomenon of speculative flows across international financial markets, financial capital and the interests of shareholders are ordained a predominance of extraordinary weight, to the extent that whilst in 1970, 90% of total world financial flows were specifically trade related (trade in actual goods or services), by 1990, 90% of these financial flows were purely speculative.
      —P.Bowring: “FROM POOR TO RICH: CAPITAL IS FLOWING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION”, International Herald Tribune, 12/12/2001
       
      So GDP’s represented 90% Real Goods and Service Flows in 1970, and by 1990 it was 10% with the 90% being purely speculative.
      Since 1990 it has only gotten worse, and computer technology has allowed this to become TERMINAL. As bad as the 1930′s was, it was Old School back then and it still required heisting ALL US Privately held Gold Bullion to create a new paradigm to get the US into the next Pump and Dump cycle … WHAT exactly are TPTB going to confiscate this time in order to wipe out the 100′s of Trillions of dollars of Debt? You are looking at a Worldwide Default of ALL Countries; very different to the 1930′s, it is Financial Malthus (Whether engineered or not, it is coming).
       
      If I am correct about CEDE & CO also, and a nationwide appropriation of Stocks and Bonds to manage the Bankruptcy, this also indicates that there will be no buying as well as selling going on without FULL Govt Management … So if you phone your broker and ask them to purchase those 10c (or whatever) AT&T shares, the broker will tell you the shop is closed. Whereas the general public got to buy shares after the crash in 1929, my theory is that only a very few Chosen ones (think Fed Owners) will get 1st dibs by Executive Privilege to buy the Cream. This has already technically started since 2008 with certain Companies being more equal than others in the division of Federal Bailout Funds … General Electric for instance seems to have profited nicely … this is all very different to the 1930′s, because Too-Big-To-Fail was not quite as prevalent back then.
       
      It is actually going to be so damn different to anything we could even imagine, that I barely can envision what the social implications of this will be on civilization as we know it. It is purely Post-Industrial World material.
      So perhaps when I said “there is always hope”, I was being naive … the hope is that you might get to be the equivalent of the 1 Jew out of 100 that didn’t get the bullet/gas at Auschwitz … being the person I am, and not able to give a Govt full authority over my being, thus I will probably choose that bullet as a good alternative.
      Prayer is all we really have, and I am really sorry to all those people who would think me as purely negative, I just cannot be that appeasing voice like the many people prior to WWII that had a Positivist attitude about whether Hitler and Mussolini etc… would all work out ok. Positivism gets a lot of people killed.
       
      Expect the worst, hope for the best – the most positive I can be I am sorry.

    • @mikeyj80
       
      Ed_B showing his wisdom yet again, well said.”
       
      Thanks for the comment, Mike.  I appreciate it and am trying to contribute to the flow of info, comments, and ideas here.  I have learned a LOT from those here and hope to repay some of that to those who have newly arrived here.  The give and take is very healthy in threshing out a good part of the truth.
       
      @WillNotBeASlave
       
      “…but this is 80years on.”
       
      Believe me, I am FULLY aware of that.  While the past is not a road map of the future, we can still learn some things from it.  Typically, that is a better plan than ignoring the past as if it has no significance… and, no, I am not saying that you are doing that.  :-)
       
      “…whereas the 1930′s was recoverable because the problem was not so Global.”
       
      The Great Depression of the 1930s affected the US, the UK, and Europe.  That was about 90% or so of the world economy at the time, in terms of monetary value.  Maybe that wasn’t global but it was pretty close to it.  I agree that things are more “financialized” these days and that the same kind of problem IS likely to be MUCH worse because of it.
       
      “As bad as the 1930′s was, it was Old School back then and it still required heisting ALL US Privately held Gold Bullion to create a new paradigm to get the US into the next Pump and Dump cycle … WHAT exactly are TPTB going to confiscate this time in order to wipe out the 100′s of Trillions of dollars of Debt?”
       
      Yes, it was “old school” but it was also quite a lesson in how not to run our economy.  We really should take our lessons where we can get them while at the same time being cognizant of the fact that history does not repeat… exactly… but there are often periods of similarity.
       
      Gold was grabbed in the US in 1933 because it was money and the banks were hoarding it.  Most US citizens did not have much gold.  Silver was the money in use commonly and remained in use until 1964 when it was either terminated or reduced in weight through 1970.  After that, it was gone from our money just like gold disappeared nearly 4 decades prior to that.
       
      Asking what else could be grabbed these days is an interesting question.  My thought is that the debts are so massive and so pervasive that it does not matter what is grabbed because there simply is not enough wealth on this planet to pay off a meaningful part of that debt, let alone all of it.  We will be WELL into the realm of throwing up our hands and declaring ALL debts null and void because there might not be any other answer to this.  Any number of answers will be attempted but the chances of them succeeding in any meaningful way seem remote at best.  All of this seems to be boiling down to this is what happens during an end-game world-wide paradigm shift.  The fiat paper paradigm is dying and as it dies there will be great upheaval.  It simply will not go quietly and we should not expect it to.  The time to get low to avoid flying crap is nearly upon us.  All we can do is not make easy targets of ourselves and try to have what we need for our families during the coming s***-storm.
       
      I have not said nor have I implied that the coming financial / economic collapse will be identical to the 1930s.  What I am trying to say here is that those years will be the closest experience we have to what is coming and that there will be some similarities.  You say that there will also be differences and I completely agree that there will be differences… but also that we do not know what a lot of them will be.
       
      “Positivism gets a lot of people killed.”
       
      It could if it is false positivism that is not grounded in factual reality.  But then, I am sure that we have all known someone who is so negative on everything that they either take their own life or might as well be dead because there is little life left in them… paranoia has squeezed it all out of them.  Yes, TPTB may well kill us one day.  So?  That does not mean that we have to help them do it.
       
      “Expect the worst, hope for the best – the most positive I can be I am sorry.”
       
      If that is the best you can manage, then that is fine.  All any of us can do is our best.  That does not mean that we will always agree, of course.  Reasonable people can often look at the same facts and differ on their meaning.  Oddly enough, both can be right at the same time… in their circumstances.
       
      As to your theory of paper assets, it is as good as anyone else’s theory.  You very well could be right but no one knows with certainty.  But that does not alter anything I am currently doing in preparation.  My wealth is diversified and I do have a good amount in PMs… better than most, actually.  Financially, I likely will be a little worse off, about the same, or a little better off than before the collapse.  If at any time we should be lucky enough to actually get a GOOD look at what is coming rather than all the speculation that we all do, THEN more definitive action can and will be taken.  Just be aware that such events tend to move slowly for a long time and then move rather quickly at the end.  Are we near or at the end yet?  No one knows.  It looks as if it is approaching but whether that is 6 months from now, a year from now, or 5 years from now cannot be stated with any degree of accuracy or authority.  Because of this, all we can do is what each of us judges to be most appropriate for our specific circumstances.  That IS what I am doing and I suspect that most on here are doing the same… the best they can with what they have.  Cheers!  :-)
       

    • You definitely have good reasoning. Your point about people who commit suicide is well taken. Being myself a Christian and knowing how bad the Serfdom of past ages has been, and how crap life is in Africa for many millions allows me to rationalize and see life in perspective … but the average Joe and Jane public who expects big sporting events and Social Security pillows, and who has become so secularized that they have no deep thoughts about God, or Human Purpose … I fear that when the SHTF, that the suicide rate in this last category will make history, if it is even recorded, the Govts of the world don’t exactly respect the art of truthful statistics anymore as we on SD well know.

  11. If you want to be rich, choose your parents carefully. Contingency plan b is to know and understand mathematics. A good memory (memory is either genetic out of the box or developed) is standard equipment for getting a MBA, Phd, or JD (you can spot folks with good memories without knowing what education they have because they can regurgitate what they read years after they read it: think cheap novels or Fortune Magazine which is standard fair here at SD), but the most useful skill to match with a developed memory is mathematics from algebra to calculus. You see, without a solid useful knowledge of algebra, you are never going to be wealthy. I have seen Phd’s who can rip apart Trivial Pusuit, MBA’s who can write detailed articles, but they are not rich because they suck in math. Every wealthy Ivy League family since the Mayflower are either lawyers (good memories) or business tycoons (algebra whiz kids)…everyone else is hired by the math geniuses or become flyover territory or both. You can be content making 100k only to have it taken away in a 28% tax bracket world or be happy with the 39.6% cap over 450k. To get at and stay above the 39.6% bracket, you must know algebra inside and out. In finding a derivative, logarithm, calculus maxima or minima or stocastic process you must breath a-l-g-e-b-r-a. It is that simple. But wait, there is more. You can carry around a slide rule or invest your time in mastering the TI-83plus, TI-84plus, and the TI-Nspire CAS. Then the only problem you will have is nickel-cadmium or lithium ion AA batteries. Mastering algebra will open every door to every thing ever invented by man the exception being lawyers.

    • Blowing this up to check for fakes… but it IS believable
       
       
       
      Looks like the rings might have been photo-chopped in and the lapel flag as well. 
      The resolution is crappy and pixelates quickly, shrouding the evidence. 
      Not sure but it looks like a mirror image shot, with rings and lapel flag added.
      The flag also looks like it was reversed (the tilt) which was the first thing that I saw. Odd

  12. M is a pluperfect beatch.   O is PW’ed most of the time.
    EdB   I certainly can see the issue of SS running out of FRN-based FIAT USTs   I am having a tad of truoble convincing these SS drones that I am a US citizen and reside in the US  I was born in Canada of US Parents   So there you go
    As for the $300,000 plus I was forced to tithe to the Fed Ponzi scheme, as well as the $300,000 plus my wife was forced to send over the last 45 years, it will take about 15 years to break even in the ROI of this confiscation.  Right now we regard this as ‘found money’ taking it as long as it last.  If I’d had the option of invest the same amount into a 3.5% EFT or other fund my stack would be $1,115,000  And it would be mine.
    If SS takes a big dump we are still good  If silver goes to $50, just a meager bleep eating $50 an ounce, we are set for life. No worries. If gold goes to $3,000, ditto on that.  We stacked early and often and so bleeding of a bit here and there works for us. That stack is the real retirement fund, not SS or any type of gummint handout.

    • “I am having a tad of truoble convincing these SS drones that I am a US citizen and reside in the US  I was born in Canada of US Parents”
       
      I can see where that would cause some difficulty.  Can you show any documents that your parents owned that prove they were US citizens?  Birth certificates, passports, baptism certificates, etc.?  That should take care of it.
       
      I was surprised that I was able to apply for SS via Internet with no visual contact whatsoever to confirm that I was who I was claiming to me.  One would think that they would want people to show up at the local office and present some form of photo-ID to confirm their identity before they started handing over money.  Apparently not, though.  And they wonder why these programs are so susceptible to fraud.
       
      “Right now we regard this as ‘found money’ taking it as long as it last.”
       
      EXACTLY!  We’re doing the same.  My wife puts her SS money into her business while I put it into preps & stacking.  I’m thinking that mine will have MUCH the superior ROI.  lol
       
      When I was 32 years old, half my life ago, I decided to start seriously preparing for retirement.  I started a 401k plan at work and a 403b plan at my wife’s work.  We also started a couple of IRAs.  When the Roth version came along in 1998, I put a few after-tax bucks into a pair of those.  My plan was not elegant but it was simple.  I saved as much as I could while still having a reasonably comfortable life.  My goal was to retire at age 55, which I did in spite of the 2001 bear market.  My thought back then was that retirement was too important to rely on the gubmint to provide for it.  My plan always had the notion that there would not be any SS by the time I retired.  OK, so I was surprised that it is still around.  But I was not fooled into thinking that putting off receiving SS benefits was a great plan.  Better to have OUR money in OUR hands.  After 30+ years of successful personal financial planning, I have proved that I can handle money responsibly and make it grow.  The US Gov?  Not so much.  They remind me of the guy who retired on a small fortune… after inheriting a large one.
       
      “If I’d had the option of invest the same amount into a 3.5% EFT or other fund my stack would be $1,115,000  And it would be mine.”
       
      I hear you on that.  Years ago I made a comment similar to that on one of the mutual fund discussion sites and droves of libs crawled out of the woodwork to chastise me for being so “greedy” and “heartless”.  HA!  Like it wasn’t the sweat of MY brow that we were discussing!  They can be as liberal with THEIR money as they wish.  Unfortunately, they are rarely ever satisfied with that and want to also be liberal with other people’s money as well.  I prefer to be more careful with what I have so that I will never be a financial burden on our children or anyone else for that matter.  I believe that we should help our fellow Americans who are truly in need but not those who simply choose not to work or who have some fake illness or injury that prevents them from working or helping themselves.  We need a lot more care applied in these programs to weed out the slackers.  That would leave more for those who truly need and deserve it.  The Mormons know how this should work and have a great plan that helps those in their church who need help without becoming a giant teat filled with free milk.  I’m not sure that I agree with their religious beliefs but I applaud their common sense.
       
      “If SS takes a big dump we are still good”
       
      Yep, same here.  Isn’t that a nice feeling?  :-)
       
      “We stacked early and often and so bleeding of a bit here and there works for us.”
       
      Excellent, AG, well done.  I am relatively new to stacking.  I got interested in it in late 2009, did a lot of on-line research, and then started buying some silver in early 2010.  Much of what I have was bought on the dips, so my net cost per oz. is not that bad… around $27 an oz.  I have bought more since the last calc, so should rerun those numbers.  It is likely a little lower now.  The Doc owes me 300 2014 ASEs and I expect them to show up any day now.  That will help.  :-)
       
      “That stack is the real retirement fund, not SS or any type of gummint handout.”
       
      Agreed… and that is the way that SS was meant to me… a supplement, not a retirement plan.  If one reads the info on the SS web site, and everyone should, they will see the words “supplement” and “supplementary” used multiple times as regards the value of SS benefits.  Typically, they describe the “3-legged stool of retirement funding”.  This consists of a pension or other work related retirement savings plan, personal savings whether in stocks, bonds, cash, or equivalents thereof, and SS benefits.  In no case are SS benefits ever meant to supply more than 1/3 of our retirement needs, yet so many people reach retirement age, have nothing saved, and THEN start crying their eyes out about how little SS pays.  That is not planning, that is blundering into a situation with no clue as to what should have been going on for decades BEFORE retirement arrives.
       
      But SS is not a gubmint “handout”.  It IS the return of OUR money.  Unlike welfare and other giveaway programs, SS is an earned benefit.  It is not how I would choose to plan for retirement but it is a “lowest common denominator” approach that helps keep some from starving when they are too old to work anymore and either didn’t or couldn’t plan for themselves.  It has value in most cases but it needs to be protected from fraud or changed so that it is more productive.
       

    • @mikeyj80
       
      “Soory Ed, referring to PM. in general”
       
      Ah, OK, no problem.  Yeah, in some ways, I do.  I see PMs as a form of financial insurance that can be passed on to others in the family.  They can be a great balancing part of ones’ portfolio of other holdings.  Like most investors, I am very uncomfortable with having all of my eggs in one basket.  Diversification has helped many investors in the past and I see no reason why it should not continue to do that.  Whatever happens, there WILL be an economy of some kind that either survives or emerges soon after.  This is in our DNA… buying, selling, and trading are fundamental to human civilization.  I know that some act as if a financial collapse is THE END and that nothing will follow after but I do not.  BS&T are too vital to the human experience not to survive or to be recreated.  The trick then becomes one of investing in the things that are most likely to survive an economic collapse.  While many companies will disappear, others probably won’t.  These are the bigger companies that have been around for a long time, that provide a vital product, and that are geographically diversified.  Food, drug, clothing, energy, and building products companies are good candidates for this.  As with all other aspects in life, however, nothing is guaranteed, so diversification of assets among such companies, plus preps, and PMs all make for a very attractive package that should do about as well as anything.
       

  13. willnotbeaslave  Now you’re talking   What is a retirement plan if nothing than a comfortable way to slip into docility, senility and the long dirt nap.
      Retirement plans and all the plans to hide them from the Feudlist sons of bitches who want to take them does not deal with the real problem.  Warriors seldom retire in one piece.
     We are painting ourselves into a corner by passively hiding  out.  William Wallace did not retire.  He retired many of his confederates and a boat load of Longshankes army.
    If that stack of phyzz set aside for the last years of comfort are uselessly hidden from powerful and evil forces that are determined to find them, then what better use for gold and silver than to hire an army to fight on the side of the righteous man and woman
    I don’t talk about this much on SD because it’s a little radical but in my BOB I make myself very clear.  My precious metals will be dedicated to the fight. To buy supplies and the labor, force and fighters as needed is the plan.  My wife understands this and while she has not fully accepted it, she completely green lights my plan. 
    The  first SDBullion PB shipment arrived–about 8,500 rounds of mixed caliber. 
    Platoon strength.
      More is on its way
    Deep stacking is not  just for AG and AU. 
    Metal can fight wars in many ways
     

    • “What is a retirement plan if nothing than a comfortable way to slip into docility, senility and the long dirt nap.”
       
      Well, one thing they are is a plan for future financial success, whether or not I have one for myself.  My wife, kids, and grand kids deserve the best financial future I can manage for them, whether or not I am around to enjoy it with them.  I am planning to be around for a while but you know how that goes.  My plan and God’s plan likely differ.  ;-)

  14. undeRGRound  whenit comes to snorkeling ammo, if  you snooze you lose around me
    willnotbeaslave
    I reviewed the overhead to run the Queen   100,000,000 for security   Jeez that’s a lot of dinero to protect the old bat
    Losses to the Dutcheys    38,000,000 pounds   Let the dutchesses pay their own frieght
    26,000,000 in HRH visits around her empire   Sheesh    How does she travel.  Eunuch Unicorns?
    500,000 for Chucky and horseface  that’s more like it
    400,000 for her royal consort. Heck that wouldn’t even pay his Viagra bills.  Much less the stem cell anti aging formula extracts from North Korean potiical prisoners. 

    • @AGXIIK
      You have a way with words that’s for sure :P
      The real Nest Egg is shrouded by BoEN (Bank Of England Nominees).
      BoEN is the best kept secret in world banking. If you have 5mins to read a few paragraphs read THIS. @Ed_B you might be interested in that info too.
      BoEN is more than a ‘dormant account’, as the BOE makes it out to be. It is so protected by the Official Secrets Act that nobody could even get Legal Traction to question whether statements about it being a ‘dormant account’ are true or false, not even a Royal Commission can be called to investigate it. In fact the ‘official line’ about this setup within the BOE could be ‘It is for Big Birds Holiday Fund’, and still there could be no legal traction for an investigation.

    • Re:  THE BANK OF ENGLAND NOMINEES
       
      “The Queen was concerned that this would mean that details of her private investments would be made public, which would allow her personal wealth to be calculated – which the royal family had always strenuously avoided…”
       
      Indeed.  She has taken a page from the Rothschild family book in this matter.  They do not list their wealth anywhere and are not required to do so by law.  Having much more than sufficient wealth to buy enough politicians to do one’s bidding is quite a perk… and it is one that is WELL used by both the Rothschilds and Windsors.
       
      But, enough of this.  It IS possible that one can learn TOO MUCH.  All this crap is making my head hurt and there isn’t jack I can do about any of it.  So, I will concentrate on the things about which I CAN do something.  :-)
       

  15. willnotbeaslave   One thing I learned last year is that local, state and federal government comprise 43% of the US GDP, up from 34% 10 years ago. Like the population of this country where 50% pay no net taxes, when the overarching government burden is over 50%, things wil get really dicey. France is about 57%.   Not good for France as their present situation is slipping badly
    In reality the US GDP is more than 50% government oriented and far in excess of 50% when business dependent on government largesse

    • In a biological sense, when the parasite reaches a given percentage of the host, the health of the host starts to suffer and as this level is exceeded, the situation worsens. In the animal kingdom, I’m sure this is WELL UNDER 50% but our “leaders” are too stupid to see they are killing the host, or in some cases maybe this is the goal…

    • @undeRGRound
       
      Good call on the parasitic nature of government… it produces little, yet consumes much.  It also interferes with those who ARE creating and doing useful things, which is even worse than not creating much on their own.  Perhaps I should return to the lab and work on a spray that eliminates these pests specifically?  That way, patriots around the nation could carry a small tube that contains this antidote to the common politician / bureaucrat / thief on their persons at all times like pepper spray.  When confronted by Gov BS, they merely pull out the tube, aim it properly, press the actuator button, and direct a spray of “Ed’s BS-B-GONE” at the offender.  Said offender will immediately make an awful face, clutch their chest, gasp, fall onto their back, quiver for a bit, and then cease all motion, including breathing.  It will be absolutely harmless to anyone not in the target group.  Yes, this definitely seems like a marketable and MUCH needed product to me.  :-D

    • @AGXIIK >>>In reality the US GDP is more than 50% government oriented and far in excess of 50% when business dependent on government largesse
      Oh yeah. PorkyPig.gov has many small swine on contracts that need to eat from that Fed Reserve & Banker filled debt trough.
       
      And the Chinese just cut off their share of the Ration to that trough, and the irony is that if the Republicans get in and cut the Govt spending then the whole Debt Credit system will actually go into collapse even quicker. The problem here is the Debt Issue $Denominated System, and the Pig WILL have his day as Bacon! Run piggy run!

  16. wllnotbeaslave.  The Royal family(ies) have been looting and raping the people and the entire world for what—4 centuries.  That is a decent time to accumulate a goodly stack. When the world is your oyster you end up with lots of pearls. 
    I read somewhere that a very large part of the land under London, not just the City of London, but London proper, belongs to Prince of Wales aka Chuck the Klutz, the royal heir and wing man for Jimmie Savile, is the titular owner of this property
     London has been a city for 3,500 years or so I heard.  If anyone had a toe hold into this dirt it’s the House of Windsor aka Saxe Coberg aka the second runners up for the  dissipated DNA gene pool prize.
      This enormous city-wide parcel of land is ground leased to all tenants whose building are on this land. The income from that is not known but could be 50,000,000 pounds or maybe 500,000,000.  But the cake rolls in

    • @AGXIIK >>>the second runners up for the  dissipated DNA gene pool prize.
      I’m surprised they haven’t de-evolved yet, but then again when I look at Charles and prince Michael I cannot deny the mental retardation and the loss of effective social communication … mumblings, and rambling.
      As for the land under Greater London, the only revenue from a National appendage that the Prince gets comes from the Duchy of Cornwall. The Queen has rights over the Duchy of Lancaster which includes the old Manor of Savoy in the City of London, just North of the Thames between Westminster and Temple, but all but a large office complex directly opposite the Savoy Hotel has been sold to Tenants and their Rates(Land Tax etc…) are paid direct to Govt bodies that the Royals have no claim over.
      Technically however the Royals do in fact Legally Own (definition of Sovereign) the whole Island, but by decree the Rights were fully devolved into the Govt as a Custodian (rent farm manager), and no direct revenues other than Cornwall and Lancaster make their way into the Queens kitty… Land Deed ‘owners’ are only Beneficial Owners, though most people have no idea about the difference. The US is different to this, but all Commonwealth Countries have archaic Common Law land ownership technicalities.
      The BIIIG money, and more importantly POWER is in the relationship between the Sovereign and The City, and by extension the Anglo-American Banking Cartels that utilize her and her exceptional access to legal jurisdiction (Tax Havens) … God only knows how much credit her Nominees wield under her and her families direct control, not to mention Private off the records Gold Bullion reserves, wherever they are, I just know she has them.
      Modern Accountants and Lawyers are the modern Merlins of this Arthur, and there are more Accountants in the Square Mile than any other square mile on planet earth x2 (and that’s actually a literal figure), and Corporate Lawyer density would only be matched by NYC.

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