20 Year Metals Trader: Every Metals Transfer Request From Major Broker is Being Rejected Multiple Times!

I have been a broker for 20 years. Recently the major broker dealer I work for asked me and my clients to leave due to too high of a concentration in physical metals.
I am now in the process of moving my clients and metals to a new custodian. Here is where things get interesting: Every transfer is being rejected multiple times for the any reason the old major broker dealer can come up with.
More interesting is all, when the old broker dealer finally does transfer the metals to the new custodian, NONE of the bars are the same in weight or serial number as my clients’ statements!
The old broker dealer is having to come to me and my clients with bars of different serial numbers and weight than the one listed on the statements or from old trade confirms.

This mis-match on transfers proves to me that the old broker deal NEVER had the metals and are now having to go acquire them to make good on client transfers.
I am 100% certain that the most of the metals have been removed from the United States, and when the stock market and bond market crashes this fall, all metals in private accounts will either not be there, or confiscated.
Heed this warning people, then end is HERE.

Silver Buffalo Rounds As Low As
$1.09 Over Spot At SDBullion!

 

From Steve Quayle:

I have been a broker for 20 years. Recently the major broker dealer I work for asked me and my clients to leave due to too high of a concentration in physical metals. After 4 months of trying to find a new home for my business, and being denied by every major broker dealer in the US, I had no choice but to become an RIA.
After three months of complete BS getting my RIA approved I am now in the process of moving my clients and metals to the new custodian.
Here is where things get interesting. Every transfer is being rejected multiple times for the any reason the old major broker dealer can come up with.

More interesting is all of the metals which have variable weights like 1,000 Silver, 100 oz gold and 50oz platinum, when the old broker dealer finally does transfer the metals to the new custodian, NONE of the bars are the same in weight or serial number as my clients statements. The old broker dealer is having to come to me and my clients with bars of different serial numbers and weight than the one listed on the statements or from old trade confirms.

This mis-match on transfers proves to me that the old broker deal NEVER had the metals and are now having to go acquire them to make good on client transfers. Coincidentally, I was also a broker at Morgan Stanley in 2006 when MS got busted for excessive storage fees and it turned out MS never owned the metals that were printed on client statements either.

Moral to the story, if you own metals at a major broker dealer, just because they are printed on your statement, does not mean they exist. I highly recommend shipping them home, even if they are in a qualified account. If there too much to take out of a qualified account, transfer them to a new custodian, for the new custodian will not accept the transfer without video taping and verifying the move of metals from the storage depository to the new storage depository.

Last thing, I am 100% for sure that the most of the metals have been removed from the United States, and when the stock market and bond market crashes this fall, all metals in private accounts will either not be there, or confiscated.

Heed this warning people, then end is HERE.

Stephen (20 year financial advisor from four of the largest broker dealers)

 

2013 Silver Eagles As Low As $2.89 Over Spot!

2013 San Francisco Mint ASE’s As Low As $3.29 Over Spot!

Comments

  1. Was it allocated or unallocated?  Author did not say.  Answer makes an enormous difference on how one should interpret this article.

  2. You’re messing with me Doc.  Steven said what???  I went to Steve Quayle’s web site for the full article.  The broker, Stephen, talked about “qualified” accounts.  ”Qualified” usually means a tax exempt account like an IRA.  If these were allocated accounts I expect the gold broker, Stephen, would have made a point of it.  Being that he did not, I expect they were unallocated.

    • Alright Uglydog..   My temptation was to be rude, this is the anonymous internet after all and that makes me about as tough as Chuck Norris.  But I will try to be polite and just highlight a few points.  If it were unallocated accounts, then serial numbers would not have been assigned on the initial holdings.   So the fact that they can tell that the serial numbers dont match shows that they were allocated accounts.   Allocated accounts will charge you storage fees.    If they can’t produce the bars they are supposedly holding for you, then at a minimum fraud has been committed because they are charging you storage fees for something they are not storing for you.  These storage fees are what persuade some people to have unallocated accounts.  They are cheaper because there are no storage fees.   Sooo…   As Doc said: “Steven said”   It is clear “prima facie ” that they are allocated accounts.   Steven did not explicitly have to say “allocated” for knowledgeable people to understand they are allocated.  Hope this helps.

    • legerde… I’ve come to learn from my research that there is confusion and misunderstanding even within the gold brokerage community between allocated and unallocated accounts.  Example would be Harvey Organ and his son.  A while back they made a big splash on King World News about their gold missing from Scotia Mocatta.   Very embarrassing for them because as it turned out they had an unallocated account even though they were paying storage fees. 
       
      Nick Barisheff has detailed this in several articles and commentaries. 
       
      http://www.safehaven.com/article/29678/uncompromised-bullion-held-in-true-allocated-storage-a-checklist

    • NONE of the bars are the same in weight or serial number as my clients statements.”
      What part of this statement do you not understand?  At least you’re smart enough to own silver…

  3. Ugly Dog  I am not sure if any account is safe or can be accounted for. If Quayle is accurate, then the fact that the old broker is struggling to find replacements is good and bad news.  Good news is the clients are getting out and hopefully with their entire stack intact.  The bad news is the allocated accounts, or any accounts, are not safe.  If you dont hold it you dont own it.
       Jim Willie noted in his news letter on several occasions that allocated accounts were being subject to predatory takings.  This SD article will likely appear in his next news letter.
     Von Egon (SIC) of Matterhorn Investments noted clients in late 2011 were finding their Swiss allocated gold bars were not the same numbers or dates coming out as when they were placed in the accounts.  The strict accounting nature of  ’registered’ and ‘eligible’ accounts do not seem to matter to JPM and others. The shell game continues. 
    If the gold was in an allocated IRA account, it may not matter if the bars are different but I would not want to see that happen. The IRS might take exception that the bars were withdrawn, used and replaced. It’s a pretty good chance that MG Global and Peregrine were fiduciaries of IRAs.  Those may have blown up when those two firms went down.
      Even if the fiduciary was to change out these bars, it might trigger a taxable event if they are not replaced within 60 days. My SDIRA must contain the same amount, type and potentially the same coin years if I was required to prove that the IRA has not been touched.  The IRA aspect might not be a major issue but the removal of bars is becoming more commonplace month over month.

    • PS  Go over to harvey Organ’s site as of June 6  There are more stories about gold, the CME, deposits, eligible and registered accounts, HSBC, HMex, Dave of Denver’s notes about COMEX and disclaimers  The Nikkie is being taken down hard with huge volatility. Just like our market in 2008 with swings of 500 to 1,000 points on the Dow in a day.  Something tells me if our market tanks, the gold to silver ratio could spike to 100 to 1. Recessions have been producing higher and higher GSR ratios for several decades.   That could be a good trading point if gold spikes to 2,000 and silver stays in the low 20′s

    • “Even if the fiduciary was to change out these bars, it might trigger a taxable event if they are not replaced within 60 days.”
       
      Possibly.  My thought is that a fiduciary is more gently treated by the IRS than are IRA account owners.  In your case, this would not be especially helpful if you are the fiduciary AND the account holder.  Financial skulduggery WOULD be assumed to be occurring until proved otherwise.
       
      The rules covering tax-deferred accounts are fairly Draconian.  My only concern about switched bars is whether or not the new and old bars are essentially the same and whether or not the account owner benefitted in any way from the switch.  If the bars are close to the same, the account holder did not initiate the switch, and no benefit accrued to the account holder, the IRS is likely to overlook this sort of thing.  Of course, if this becomes a pattern of behavior, all bets could be off.

  4. Whether or not there’s pin-point accuracy over ‘allocated’ or ‘unallocated’, his experience of numerously repeated reluctance to make the transfers at all, further underlines the RAPIDLY growing body of evidence that bullion isn’t in sufficient supply to keep claimants whole. I wouldn’t even nit-pick over bar numbers and weights if the precise weights had to be rounded up with, say fractional Eagles. What’s striking is the initial demand for the broker to leave AND REASON STATED. Then the sheer degree of drawn out obstruction in relocation and movement of his accounts and contents, however fungibly generic the delivery.
     
    When I was a broker, transfers of my bone-fides and entire customer account holdings were all completed in less than a week … in toto! Then again, I never moved REAL THINGS. So, there’s the more poignant ‘take-away’ again further attested to here, REALITY is in the process of crushing the false facade.

    • I thought that as well, Pat until I noticed that Steve Quayle was the author of this article.  I’m not sure that I believe what this guy writes.  He seems credible at times but not at others.  Is this article for real or just another sensational piece meant to “stir the pot”?  Hard to say.
       
      We DO know, however, that when Eric Sprott ordered $300M or so worth of silver for his PSLV ETF, it took almost 3 months for the bars to be delivered and ALL of them were dated AFTER he put in his order.  This shows that there were no bars available in storage to fill this order and that brand new bars HAD to be produced to fill the order.

    • Ed, the reason I’m willing enough to take this story on its face is the … PLETHORA … of similar circumstances that have come to light over the past year, in ever greater numbers and tightening frequency. Ever since the ‘Big Show’ of sending that shipment down to Venezuela a couple years ago, the recurrence and volume of news disclosing dwindling circulation of deliverable metals has been piling up like sand at the bottom of an hour glass. Like Poe’s terrible ‘Pendulum’, the first nicks have been taken from the bellies of the bullion bankers. Soon they’ll be thoroughly dissected, because … ‘They’re all buying … No one is selling’.

    • “‘They’re all buying … No one is selling’.”
       
      A good trick, that.  Most markets require a seller for every buyer and vice versa.

    • The ‘everyone’s buying …’ comment was the global refrain we kept hearing reports of from dealers for more than a month. Of course in REALITY … NO one .. is either buying NOR selling, they’re exchanging and the upshot from the dealers was that all their customers were exchanging banknotes for metal and little of the opposite, demonstrating a glut in supply of banknotes without a corresponding supply of metals.

      You know, I’d ALWAYS struggled with the terms ‘buy’ and ‘sell’ since I was a child exploring ancient civilizations. At a point, it came to me that the concept is fairly ‘modern’ nomenclature that arose from merchandising through standardized media. In essence, people trade away ‘stuff’ they have excess of, for ‘stuff’ they lack. When EVERYONE has an excess of the same item to trade off and NO ONE has excess of what’s needed, the ‘market’ locks down in irrelevance. That’s what sparked my fascination with monetary theory and balance of supply-demand so long ago. In turn, that sparked thoughts of how ‘virtual’ money (whether debased specie or credit forms) is an illusory self-defeating invention. At length, the ‘stuff’ needed is far outweighed by the phony media sought to be traded off as though nearly all parties came to market with llama pelts and only a handful showed up with, say woven clothing. So, economies don’t operate on money per se, they operate on a balanced and diversified supply of items available for exchange … including money itself.

    • Understood, Pat.  Money is just a convenience that facilitates trade.  
       
      The hell of the fiat money system is that it never seems to be quite in balance with the amount of “stuff” that is out there.  Because of this, and no doubt other reasons as well,  we have the erroneous “business cycle” argument presented to us as the reason why we have booms and busts rather than the truth, which is unrelenting fiat-enabled bankster greed.

  5. Does the fact that his client’s had specific bar numbers and weights mean by definition that they were allocated?

  6. Of course a braver man would say his name and the name of the major broker dealer.  That would remove any doubt from this particular warning.

    • Yes, it would.  But then, he’d better have solid proof of his claims to present in court when he is sued for libel.

  7. i love mr. quayle but this sounds more like his reports of imminent takeover by chinese and russian troops.

  8. pforth   I am not sure a braver man would have released his name or the name of the brokerage.  If, for instance, he had an employment contract that prevented discussing any client situation or relationships, trade secrets, and company policies, the least this person could have laid on him is legal action of such destructive nature that it would destroy him and his standing with his clients and the community within which he works.
    When I left the bank, and after my boss got of the minor and temporary shock of my resignation, he told me in no uncertain terms
    You will not get your residual commission, you will not be able to work with or contact your former clients, you will not be able to use your bank-established relationships and if you violate any of these terms, we will sue you. I was completely aware that he meant every word and the bank was quite capable of carrying out their threat since I’d seen them do it before.  Banks and brokerages are notorious in their willingness to embarrass and harrass former employees if they ‘cross the line’  And that does not include the potential for something worse. Fying lessons off the top of a tall building that has the name of a big bank on it.
    just sayin
    As for Quayle, he does have a reputation as a bit of a sensationalist.  But even if his sources are sketchy, the details of account theft, rehypo and leasing are now hiding in plain site.  Those references on Organ’s site are more details.  Dave from Denver is a reputable pundit who comments almost daily regarding these thefts and recently, it appears, has become a true believer in the deeply corrupt and criminal nature of the COMEX and CME..    Being a pundit can be dangerous too given the tendencies of Attorney Generals to focus the full power of the state or federal government on that person. Think ant, magnifying glass and the sun.  there are some incredibly hostile people out there with nothing to lose except the entire government they serve.  It makes a man pretty vicious. But I digress
    Avoid the wrath of the government unless you have great strategic and tactical advantages otherwise martyrdom might be your fate.

  9. I’m sorry, I just visited http://www.stevequayle.com/. Are you kidding me? The guy has a dedication to “Giants and ancient history”!! Not going to even touch the other crap he has on his sight…UFO’s, Planet X…come on…I mean we all love those things…but mixing up serious stuff with Giants? How can one take him seriously.
     
    He may have been a broker some time in his life, but clearly something has gone wrong.

    • Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter the source, doesn’t matter if it’s true, if it helps sell PMs.  For all the grief given “lame-stream” media and goverment lies, sites like this are giving people with common sense pause as to where the real MOPE is.  And in the big picture, this hurts stackers more than it helps.

    • WFS…just because we see the world one way today doesn’t mean it’s always been this way.

    • the evidence that there were giants in the world at one point is actually far more compelling than one might think.
       
      It in fact is much more compelling given the facts available now and in past, that silver and gold are going anywhere significant in the near term.

    • I’m with ya here, WAITING… 
      I would segregate the more speculative stuff from the hard fast things like PMs. 
      However, I do think there is compelling evidence for giants, like CDL stated. 

  10. What I do know is the luciferians  magicans  banksters are NOT to be trusted …lying is a tool for them



  11. Steve Quayle? You may as well read a comic book rather than believe anything on his website. Guess you don’t remember when he exclaimed that The Euro has failed, The Euro has failed! 18 months ago? He’s a complete JERK.
    Is anything that is posted here leading our thoughts away from the fact that metals are declining by leaps and bounds and any moves up particularly in Silver are miniscule? The only positives are that the metals are heading due South and the negatives are heading due North and will not recover for several, several years!!!!
    Heard from Eric Sprott lately? Anyone that really knows what is going on?

  12. Read the above Steve Quayle article CAREFULLY! Did he ever state that the Old Broker is Morgan Stanley??? Correct me if I’m wrong!
     

  13. Anybody here tell me if there is such a shortage, the U S government getting hammered with a low vote of confidence and all the Gold and Silver supposedly being withdrawn why in Hell the prices are going to the Shit house if there issuch a shortage?
    Please enlighten me.

    • ETF price equalization. If you don’t know what that means, you haven’t been paying attention.

    • just wait for some 50 dollar explanation equating to = who the f knows what is going on LOL.
       
      you can dress it up all you want but the criminals are in control until they aren’t, and at this point they are still in control. there is no massive break between physical and paper prices, certainly not where it needs to be – and as long as prices are based on paper, then the joke is alive and well. We all know paper is worthless. until that is broadly accepted, then we’re still in the matrix.

    • The good news is that US dollars still have value because a lot of people out there will trade us some VERY nice things for them.  In fact, we can buy a lot of inexpensive gold and silver these days primarily due to the pricks who are manipulating the PM market.  IMO, this is a good time to be buying… and I have been.  :-)

  14. legerde  I’m a little weak on the differentiation between allocated and non-allocation, eligible and registered in relation to how they are held, the means of verification and identification each piece of physical precious metal, it’s storage site and how someone keeps track and which is which and what is what in this era of WORL.
      If these storage vaults are now subject to leasing, rehypothecation, theft, claims and the like, does it matter what sort of phraseology is used to indicate the status of gold and silver?  The dance of precious metals banks and their explanations and ruses used to play out the three card monte schemes present today makes it seem that numbers, chits and vaults  are of little use.  We ordinary folks know that if our stuff is put in a safe deposit box, it is not going to mysteriously shift to another box.  Stolen?  Yes.
     But in this shell game, the phyzz is moving from place to place with little concern as to the ownership. 

    • My understanding is that registered and eligible are COMEX <-> Bullion Bank notions, and I could give my understanding of those definitions if you want.    My understanding is that allocated and unallocated are Bullion Bank <-> Customer notions.   I havent given much thought or investigation into untangling these terms, because if you dont hold it, you dont own it.  
      Safe deposit boxes are “in” the system.  Ive seen stories from FDR to last year that discuss items being removed from Safe Deposit Boxes with no recourse.  Paper is credit.  You bank balance is not yours.   You are an unsecured creditor to the bank.  etc…
      The only reason I responded to uglydog was because I had the impression he was trying to discredit an article because it didn’t have a few words he needed.
       

  15. Pat,
    If “ETF price equalization. If you don’t know what that means, you haven’t been paying attention.” Why do charts show differently? ETF’s can travel only so far against constant demand.

    • Dude! Ramp up! The COMEX is PHONY … it’s a KABUKI DANCE. They’re forcing the ticket values down so that the ETFs have to offload bullion to equalize the ‘shares’ and the ‘spot’ quote! They REALLY ARE running out of metals in the face of delivery demands! The ETFs ALWAYS WERE intended for this contingency. It’s the reason they EXIST AT ALL. It’s the reason ALL their stinking paper exists … because THERE AIN’T ENOUGH REAL SHIT TO MAKE PHONY BILLIONAIRES AND TRILLION AIRS. They STEAL YOUR LABOR WITH THEIR PAPER.

    • @PatFields
      Ha ha ha I love it! you always speak so eloquent and know you have me LMAO!!!
       
      “”THERE AIN’T ENOUGH REAL SHIT”" Now thats real

    • Well said PF. 
      WELL SAID!!! 
      It always was a fake…
      10 to 20% margins? PITIFUL!!! 
      <undeRGRound shaking his head in disapproval right now> 
       

  16. Last I checked there has not been a huge offload of SLV. It maybe was done under the cover of darkness, but there hasn’t been a run on slv like there has gld.

    • HOLY COW! … NObody is getting this! Shares don’t have to be sold to accomplish the equalization … JUST THE BULLION! You too, man … stop looking at the hand in the air making exaggerated flourishes and watch the OTHER hand under the coat!

    • @PatFields
      I already knew this, practiced this, but only “instinctively” and maybe not consistently. 
      Thank You for saying it OUT LOUD!!! 
       
      My new sig: (lol)
       
       Stop looking at the hand in the air making exaggerated flourishes and watch the OTHER hand under the coat!

    • How would we ever know?  Look at the manipulated data that they themselves supply?  Hardly.

  17. Every Friday the precious metals prices get pushed down, and stocks get pushed up, but the following week metals prices recover, and stocks lose steam over the rest of the week.  Tuesdays are similar.  Can any of this possibly represent free and un-manipulated markets?
     
    One has to start wondering if maybe it’s not the Chinese who push paper metal prices down before the weekend, to give themselves better changes at acquiring more physical metal.  Regardless, it’s 100% evident the prices are being manipulated and played with.  It’s also 100% clear that, no matter what happens to the paper metal prices, more and more people are beginning to see and are realizing that the paper financial system is done for.  But most people have not the slightest idea how to protect themselves and their families, with the exception of continuing to accumulate more store of value in the form of physical Silver and physical Gold.
     
    Texas is going to take away the 6.25% sales tax on the purchase of Gold and Silver coins and bullion under $1,000 (and no tax is collected on purchases over $1,000).  Texas, like other awakened US states, is doing what China is doing–encouraging its citizens to purchase and save physical Silver and physical Gold.  The US Constitution set the US under the Silver monetary system.  Silver is the original money of the USA.  All things being equal, a country and nation can only be as rich and wealthy as its citizens are.

  18. its funny how the sloshing back and forth between metals, equuities (and bonds)  happens so regularly.  The one thing about sloshing.  the spillage and evaporation will reduce the fluid levels over time.  More sloshing–more evaporation.
    SLV and GLD? Downright squishy

    • AGXIIK,
      Being one of the best minds posting here, I have a question on my mind and have posted it here many times. All stackers in my opinion never consider the Industrial side for Silver demand, which is higher than jewelry or monetary demand. Can it be possible that the industries who use Silver in the manufacture of their products be the ones hammering down the Silver prices to their benefit to keep production costs down? Any company that manufactures electronics, ie; cell phones, TV’s or any use of Silver to enhance electrical conductivity would want Silver to stay at the lowest price I would believe That market is larger than any other, unless the ratios for usage has changed. Any feedback from you would be appreciated. I would note that the distancing in the Gold Silver ratio would be a factor.
       
      Ranger

    • AGXIIK,
      Meaning you are ine of the best minds posting here, not me!

    • Ranger  That you for the generous sentiments.  I would not be so bold as to characterize myself that way–not even close.  It’s a daily chase to keep my mind on the same page of what little reality we have to hang on to—-sometimes for dear life.   Which is why Pat Fields is very adamant in his statements about reality.  It’s like reading the message of the day from a drill sergeant.   ANd that is good since the teachers we had in my youth were completely dedicated to learning.
      Pat,  I think I understand your stance about GLD and SLV and the illusions they present, foisted on the buying public.  Even John Paulson, a mega billionaire, has seen the value of his GLD holdings drop by large double digits.  The GLS and SLV funds are run by criminals, JPM and HSBC.  The metals are stored in the vaults of other criminals whose accounting methods would make Bernie Madhoff blush.  Before I converted to phyzz I owed both funds plus the triple leverage ETFs for those metals and made a ton of money on them in the metals price rises.  Since the fine print was offered for study but tossed in the trash, the losses were hefty too.  
      It’s my opinion that few people have read the owner’s manual for these funds though I would often read the annual reports for Fidelity Investments offerings.  That was back  in those days I actually believed what I read was the reality of the situation.  It’s take 3 solid years of study to knock the shingles from my eyes and realize that no matter what is written by any institution holding an investment in any commodity, particularly precious metals, the true of the matter is that it’s all hogwash, from the prospectus to the annual report.
      I should have known better since, as a former banker, Ihad clients sign 1 inch thick bundles of fine print paper used to provide and secure a loan that is read in full would have scared the living crap out anything thinking man or women.  Money in those cases was like crack or meth to the borrowers and they would sign as quickly as a crack whore would sell her child for the next fix.  It my opinion  the addiction to FIAT is so strong it makes heroin look like M&Ms.  What we won’t do for money might fill the space on a post-it note.
      This Matrix existence where reality is anything but, makes these repositories  of precious metals little more than a ruse to deceive the buying public while fraud is committed  behind the scenes.   Which is why Organ states the Sprotts PSLV and PGLD  the only honest ones out there and the GLD and SLV little more than a Law and Order crime scene.  I’m just waiting for GLD to hit triple digits in gold tonnage and things wills tart to get interesting.  I do have a vague understanding of the fine print on the GLD details in that if someone owes 100,000 shares they can redeem them for physical, which is probably the reason that 300 ormoer tons of gold has left the building, demanded for delivery by the strong hands.
      The investors may not have read the prospecti of these funds, trusting as they and we do, in the honestly of the institutions behind them, but when they find that the sharpies and big buyers of GLD have snorkled out most the gold less some paper receipts and dust bunnies on the counting room  floor of  the vaults, they will cry foul and commence with law suits.  And just as the vultures settles on the fences around MF Global, offering either legal counsel or a purchase of claims by the farmers and cattlemen of 35% on the dollar, there will be plenty hovering around the carcasses of these two funds.
      If anything is to be gained by this, the likelihood of recovery of losses in GLD and SLV will be protracted if they are possible at all.  The attorneys will get rich from law suit fees.  The banks will be made to pay a pittance and a wrist slap.  Some people will get a few pennies and lick their wounds,  and once again, the vast rotation of assets to the smart folks will be like the Greek Gyros beef lump, Ginsued off piece by piece to become sandwich fixings for the folks who have figured out how they can make a meal of the unwary and illiterate,  and I include myself in that group, hence the reason I exited the market. All those SOBs are way to smart for me.
      By way of defending myself, and I am probably now amongst those here on this site who reflexively mistrust all missives from the government and all statements of protection and hoest dealins from the banksters—I make it easy on myself.
      Trust no one in those positions. 
      After hearing Obama say that the 100,000,000 communications accounts held by private citizens represent nothing more than  a  MODEST ENCROACHMENT

  19. Pat,
    You may want to consider the jobs report today driving metals down.
     

    • Ranger
      I’m sure Pat will beat Harvey Organ to the punch on this silver price drop.  I haven’t thought much about it but did have a long conversation with a silver friend and told him to get his butt over and buy some silver today.  He’s a bit of a slacker but I think he’ll do it Monday
      Your question made me think of the stories of industries of such size and even firms that are behemoths, using very complex hegding strategies to secure their commodities at a predictable price. No CEO wants to explain to the board and stockholders how he failed to hedge the price of metals or energy, only to see a huge miss on the quarterly and annual report
      I recall Southwest Airlines, a Texas based firm, working the fuel futures markets like a day job.  Kelleher was good at this and I think it was because he was a wild catter or something related to the oil bidness. Suffice it to say, his strategies were pretty good, allowing him to be on the right side of the fuel future price trades, keeping the ticket costs down and profitable.  Being close to the oil patch didn’t hurt either. There was even a story about his trading acumen in fuel hedging that helped Southwest’s bottom line.
      As for the industrial use of silver, I’ve been a fan of the theme that it is so mission critical to our modern way of like that if silver got out of control, in eithe price or supply,  it would be very painful to all concerned.  Steve DeAngelo makes the case for the EROI of energy and its cousin, the EROI contained in the hard form of petroleum that we like to stack, as in silver and gold being compressed energy matrices.  Steve, do you have your ears on?  Can you comment on these questions?
      Thus the multi trillion dollar electronics, computer, communication and warfare industries have to be filling their Depends over the last three years  silver price volatility.   $50 an ounce thrills stackers but must make the global users of silver very nervous.  Sure, Apple’s NOI is way into the double digits but if silver went up by 200-400%, the bean counters would scream over the cost factor of silver in the product.
       There’s been a lot of information on the price of silver and gold in any form of electronics from little bitty RFID chips to LED/LCD big screen TVs.  Ranging from tenths of a gram to 2/3 of an ounce per item, silver may be, in my view of reality,  price inelastic to the end cost of the product, but it has to make the cost accountants crazy with worry that silver might explode. Most of these manufacturers and Just In Time inventory to keep costs down.
      Apple’s investment arm is Braehorn Capital.  It’s located nearby in Reno NV and occupies a small office in an industrial park.  It’s people are culled from the top of the investment industry and I think even includen ex-government money people. They manage the left over profits of Apple to the tune of $150 billion or more. The funds are on and off shore, depending on the US tax laws and rules and those of the other countries.  With $150 billion, they have about 8 times as much in the kitty as the US government right now. 
      If the Fed can use the ESF with its core capital of $100 billion or so to do the tango with 500 tons of short sold paper gold on April 12 and 15th 2013, crushing  the price by $200 an ounce,   aided by the usual suspects such as the ECB and the PBoC,  those funds sloshing around Braehorn could do the same thing to silver with much less arm flexing.  While this investment firm does not disclose much since it’s a private equity fund, there is a good chance that the brainiacs at Apple are not going to allow anything past their review. Without silver they are screwed and might was well pack it in. Silver if the life blood of Apple and like firms.
      On the other hand, as the one armed economist said, supressing the price is going to create shortages.  Manipulate the price of oil and all hell breaks loose.  Saudi Arabia turns off the spigot and Iran jacks the price.  $4 a gallon gas and shortages still erupt.
       Manipulate silver and it is a different thing. Price goes down and shortages erupt.  The low price means silver stocks are bought up by weak and strong hands alike,  supply goes down and miners produce no more. That two edged sword would not work to the advantage of the commercial andi industrial firms in the long pull and these people are all about the long pull, quarterly profits notwithstanding. 
      It might even make them less likely to play the market. The Spice must flow.
       It opens up the sales gates to the low price buyers like China and India, between whom  hoover 40-50% of all silver sales. Buying cheap silver and warehousing it is a part of the Art of War they are in with the western world.
       I can’t see Apple benefiting by playing the market. They are an electronics firm, not a silver trading house. That sort of action is best left to the big boys and girls, a sharp elbows game.   Maybe some Chinese industrial firms might be the beneficiary. They could deplete supply, hurting us while controlling a large percentage.  China is a prepper nation.
        There was a post a while back the spoke to Chinese mines selling silver for $10 an ounce. I bet none of that helped anyone except the controlled Chinese industrial firms.  And those folks would not be so generous to share the wealthy with Japan, India or Korea, much less us.  Trade wars are too important to the Chinese to be the nice guys.
      The other question will be if the industrial firms are trying to hedge their silver prices and offer to purchase silver miners products at a price of XX. They would not want to kill the goose that mines the silver eggs.  A miner could easily go broke or shut down if the silver is selling for $22 an ounce with their mining costs of $26 an ounce.   A contract to sell silver should not be a suicide pact.  If the silver demand to supply shortage is 18% or so, by my last estimation, the industrial firms may also be in a catch as catch can position in trying to source silver. Maybe they well all in before the shortage, buying at $30 an ounce a few months ago and not caring where the prices went since they were able to get source 100 MOZ at that price and to heck with the rest of the world.  It does not take much to see the supply of silver is dwindling, as Steve makes clear in his posts.
      Doc had a blue light special for 1000 ounce silver bars at 69 cents over spot   There was a 2 hour window. I wonder who was buying.  I’m not into weight lifting any more so 1 KOZ bars were out for me. 
      Remember the post about the German car manufacturer who had huge pallets of silver ingots stored in their warehouse?  Maybe it was MBZ.  But they were stocking way ahead of usage, predicting shortages   Without silver a Mercedes is just a nice box on wheels.
      So, I could be overthinking this question when trying to connect the dots in the  industrial attempts to hedge prices and supplies.  Overall I have never heard of any one firm or industry hedging silver to secure price AND availability but there must be, if for no other reason that the owner of one firm sees a strategy to help prices on the factory floor.
      Is there someone in the know from a specific manufacturer or brokerage that makes a market in this commodity.  I’ve run out of guesses.
       

  20. This plainly lays out the theft of customer property, fraud, and all kinds of legal issues. Not a surprise either. We all knew it was happening.

  21. @Ranger
    IMO your question to AG. I don’t think Industry is holding down silver but they are taking what advantage they can with the low prices. They do stock up as stated in an article something about a swiss vault were the Vatican has some of there holdings Kodak did this as well. The investment side is holding up the price right now because “Consumers are not buying enough Goods from Industry. Take a look at the BDS (Ballistic Dry Index} witch has been in resent months the lowest it has ever been in recorded history. This is the true Consumer trade one should watch on how well the world economy is doing. The truth is shipping is way down and ships are just parked out in the middel of the ocean doing nothing.
    I can see the Chinese taking the short side to hold down silver. This works two fold. They are trying to dump there holdings of USD and convert it into hard assets. You probably heard of there ghost citys thats a hard asset and now they have been coming hear buying real estate with cash. They are sending our USD’s back home and with it will come inflation. When you look at the PM’s think of it this way. You can’t mesure they’r value in a fiat currency it’s impossible!!! The only movement you are seing in the metals is the fluctuation of the fiat currency that you are weighing them against. They show Inflation/Deflation or like what is happening now our Governments manipulated Inflation. (False Figures)  

  22. Ed B  I needed to get inthe way back machine to get a handle on whether breaking a tax def account would create a taxable event and am not quite sure if this one is the same.  Many years ago an accomodator specializing in 1031 exchanges was holding tens of millions in funds from people in the property downleg of the tax deferred 1031 exchange.  The accomodator decided to speculate with the funds of these folks, all of whom had a minimal amount of time to indentify the upleg property and then but the property, thus transferring the funds in a tax deferred status.  Speculating with the clients funds, making those illegal trades out of an allocated sequestered account, the accomodator lost most of his clients funds. 
    The clients not only lost their valuable funds but the IRS regarded the transactions of their funds by the speculator, even as they were out of the control of the owner of the funds, a taxable event and sought taxes from the owners.  I dont remember the conclusion of this fiasco but it was front page news involving enormous amounts of money.
    Fast forwarding to present day, if a fiduciary broke open the piggy bank, like MF Global and like brokerages, it could go badly for the account owner even if the funds were taken by a bail in, seizure of the accounts due to actions of the fiduciary etc etc.  The IRS has been known to have no sense of humor in these cases and is just as likely to make the innocent party to the theft nothing more than a perp walk drive by wanna be tax slave.  The IRS uses Napoleonic Code enforcement—-guilty until proven innocent. I would not want to be the test case in something of this anture.  It was only a few months ago that people who used their IRA and 401k accounts to invest in a business, using the same sort of funds they’d use for a public stock investment through a Fidelity-like broker. They used the retirement funds to buy the private business through a corporation. The mistake made then, though semi-approved by the IRS, was borrowing money that had a personal guaranty. This collateralization of the loan and the personal guaranty was interpreted as an indirect pledging of the retirement funds.  The IRS hammered these people and even after tax court and the expense therein, the IRS won the case. 
    The crying shame here was that in the early 2000′s this was an IRS gray area that was allowed to remain in place for many years.  People trusted the IRS to keep their word.  That was not to happen.  Taxes, penalties and interest were staggering.
    The moral of the story is—-don’t piss off the witch doctor until you are in another county

    • I agree that the IRS can get VERY picky about real estate transactions involving tax-deferred money.  There has been a considerable abuse of such dealings.  My experience has been, if the IRS considers something a “gray area”, it means that they are still formulating the tax rules for that particular area.  It is NOT a green light to do this on a permanent basis.  I would particularly not want to compound this potential problem by involving tax-deferred money into the bargain.  
       
      “The IRS has been known to have no sense of humor in these cases…
       
      A lot of people would claim that the IRS has NO sense of humor in ANY case.  lol
       
      “I would not want to be the test case in something of this nature.”
       
      What?  And miss your chance for eternal fame and fortune!  lol
       
      “This collateralization of the loan and the personal guaranty was interpreted as an indirect pledging of the retirement funds.”
       
      Which is specifically prohibited by IRS / IRA regs.
       
      Why anyone would buy a business with their IRA funds is beyond me.  They are essentially investing their future in a VERY tiny small cap stock.  Such businesses have a high failure rate, so this is like betting your financial future on a roulette wheel spin or two.  Not my idea of a good time or something that is financially wise.
       
      “People trusted the IRS to keep their word.  That was not to happen.”
       
      But that’s just it.  The IRS did not give their word.  They simply had not clarified how the law should be applied at that time and in that case, so did not issue a ruling on this issue until they were sure.  This does not imply their approval or disapproval of any particular action.   This is not an isolated instance of such behavior, so it really should not be a surprise to anyone who follows IRS rulings.

  23. Wow! just bought 4 WestPoint  2013 ASE 1st Release  NGC MS69 for $ 140.00 shipped,. .’shorting the luciferians  USD

  24. Stock and Bond market crashing this fall?  That would’nt happen to be around the time the new 100 “gets released” ? ? ?
    Poor grammer in this article, by the way.

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